Health perils of a vegan diet plus … it’s just not working to save the planet – How I became an ex-vegan
Yes, veganism and I broke up. I am no longer vegan. I am officially an ex-vegan.
I’m over it already. I’ve already been lambasted for a couple of weeks by vegans who feel betrayed by my decision. Of course, I was just a “bad vegan” who “wasn’t doing it right.”
And after spending the past few days researching what other ex-vegan bloggers have written about their split with veganism … what I’m going to say here is not new. Many, many people have had the same experience that I did. And many of them have written and spoken about it quite eloquently – see below for links.
Mahatma Gandhi could not sustain a vegan diet. The Dalai Lama could not sustain a vegetarian diet. And most spiritual figures have not even bothered to try. I used to be very hard on them about this, but I have reconsidered. I owe them an apology.
In my last blog post, I detailed some of the symptoms that I had been experiencing on a vegan diet from lack of DHA and EPA. That was only a partial list of symptoms. Toward the end, I was feeling utterly exhausted, my joints were painful and dry, my skin never seemed to heal completely, I was dropping things in the kitchen on a regular basis. Blood vessels were protruding on my temples. I was getting muscle cramps constantly. My muscle tone and conditioning was just … off. The white hairs on my head were proliferating quickly. My teeth were feeling sensitive. My face seemed weirdly and asymmetrically puffy. The bone in my right calf was aching on a regular basis. It seemed that veins in my legs were becoming slightly varicose. My eyes felt weird and hard to focus. And I was waking up angry every single morning. Really angry. My chronic shoulder pain – which I had virtually eliminated with EFT tapping years earlier – suddenly flared up again at a level of intensity that made absolutely no sense and was driving me insane. There were other symptoms, these are just a few of them. The symptoms were not getting better with time. They were getting worse.
Then, as I had mentioned a couple articles ago, I seemed to be extremely sensitive to a ridiculously growing list of foods. I was not one ever to have allergies in my life (except to morphine, but that’s a story for another day ;) ) … and suddenly I was having to eliminate foods like crazy.
It was getting to where there was literally nothing I could eat. I had actually become fearful of food. Fearful that anything I might eat would trigger a skin breakout within hours.
I knew something was very, very wrong.
A few weeks before I ended my vegan diet, a man dropped dead of a heart attack right in front of my apartment building on my street in San Francisco. I heard someone on the street saying “call 911,” the lights almost immediately come over the hill. And they did CPR in plain view of my apartment. I could see his pale dead face through a gap in the trees on the street, as they hopelessly attempted to revive him.
That it happened so close to me seemed like a message. I was in danger.
The last weekend of my vegan existence, I had to call my neighbor because I was having heart pain and shooting pain in my arms. She kindly checked in on me every few hours for the next few days. I felt extremely thirsty and could not quench my thirst no matter how much water I drank. I was scared. My mind flashed back to the man who had a heart attack. I knew it was time to make a change.
And I knew the change was both physical and metaphorical. Because while vegetarian and vegan was originally a choice based in compassion, the truth is that veganism had turned out to be a hard-nosed, dogmatic philosophy that had – ironically – shut down my heart to my fellow humans. And even to my own body, which was screaming out for help.
I wrote to my dad and told him I was feeling scared. He told me about a time in college when he had been trying to lose weight and went to the doctor. The prescription was for him to eat something more substantial. My dad suggested I eat the “morally acceptable equivalent of a cheeseburger.”
I had been feeding my cats meat and fish during almost the entire time I was vegetarian and vegan (a total of three and a half years). Finally, at wit’s end … I popped open one of the cans of high-quality tuna from which I’ve been giving Fritz the Cat juice for a couple of years … and I ate fish for the first time in three and a half years.
I ate the entire can, and I noticed that fish felt good in my body. I noticed that the thought of eating even one more vegetable or legume was absolutely abhorrent.
For a few more days, I still felt in a panic. There was a horrible pressure at my right temple that persisted for days. Some mornings, I woke up with crushing headaches. I walked to Whole Foods to get a dozen certified humane eggs, and on the way home, the muscles in my legs were cramping all the way up and down. I felt fragile, and my neighbor said I looked frail.
Did you know that taurine is a co-factor for the body’s use of the critical mineral magnesium? … and that if you don’t have enough of the co-factors, it does not matter how much of a nutrient you’re getting … Sure, nuts and seeds are high in magnesium, I should be getting plenty of magnesium. I was even supplementing magnesium. But my body could not use it because I was lacking the co-factors due to a strict vegan diet. This is scary stuff, my friend.
Yes, I learned a lot about nutrition over the past few weeks. And I knew a lot about nutrition already. I started to feel pretty annoyed about the vegan propaganda that I had been believing for over a year.
Because if you do the research, it is abundantly clear that it is NOT POSSIBLE for most humans to get the nutrition they need on a strict vegan diet. We can go down a long, long list of nutrients, and that is probably just the tip of the iceberg. Because even the most well-informed nutritionists have no idea about the unknown factors … what we don’t even understand yet about how combinations of nutrients lead to optimal performance in human beings.
Vegans will sometimes talk about B-12. And every so often you will hear one talk about DHA. But in my over one year as a vegan, I never heard anyone talk about vitamins A and D, how many people cannot convert ALA to EPA and DHA, how many people cannot convert beta-carotene to vitamin A, how fat soluble vitamins are not the same for the human body as vitamins in vegetables. I never heard vegans acknowledging bio-availability issues. I never heard them being honest about calcium deficiency, dental problems that have plagued countless ex-vegans, the widespread prevalence of multiple nutritional deficiencies in long-term vegans … and on and on and on …
It was a slow awakening process for me. I certainly was aware of my symptoms early on. About six months into being vegetarian, my skin issues worsened significantly. But I never connected that with diet. In retrospect, it’s entirely possible that I had exhausted a lot of my DHA/EPA reserves, and so my body was becoming more sensitive and inflamed.
The truly dramatic symptoms began, however, when I went from vegetarian to vegan. Maybe I had already used up so many reserves, I didn’t have much left. A vegan diet certainly was not providing the nutrition I needed.
But vegans were so certain that EVERYONE could thrive on a vegan diet, that I was sure the problem was just a simple missing link. Some tiny adjustment that would reverse the symptoms. Perhaps a supplement or a new exotic food.
So I tried just about everything. Adding more raw food for enzymes. Probiotics were indeed somewhat helpful, but they are equally helpful on any diet. Eating fermented vegetables. Eating chia seeds, flax seeds, flax seed oil. I tried kelp noodles and maca and other foods I had never heard of before this. And I started taking about 25 supplements over the course of a few months.
NOTHING WORKED. Moreover, I had become completely dependent on supplements for even minimal health. When I slacked off a little bit on my iron supplement for example, things began to crash fast.
I’m sorry, but a diet that requires that many supplements and still has alarming symptoms like this is not in any way natural or healthy. There may be a few people on this planet who can maintain optimal health long-term on a vegan diet. I am not one of them. And I am willing to bet a lot of money those people who can maintain optimal health on a vegan diet are few and far between.
If you are on a vegan diet, I would encourage you to research extensively these nutrients at a minimum, because there is a good chance you are deficient in some or all of them:
Vitamin A
Vitamin D
DHA/EPA
Iron
Vitamin B-12
Other B vitamins
Taurine
Carnosine
Creatine
Calcium
Vitamin K2 (This one is a killer, don’t overlook it. It is not to be confused with Vitamin K1, they are not the same thing.)
Many more
In parallel to this slow awakening to the fact that a vegan diet was wreaking havoc to my health … I was also becoming rapidly disillusioned with the entire vegan ideology. I still had not heard from very many ex-vegans, or maybe I had tuned them out. I was immersed in vegan culture, and for the most part it was very angry and very ugly.
(There were of course some shining exceptions to the rule, some people practicing true compassion. But for a movement based supposedly on compassion, what I was encountering more often was judgment, attack, and hatred, even infighting among vegans.)
First off, in many vegan groups in which I attempted to participate, it became clear quickly that one was expected to adhere to the “religion” no matter how little sense it made.
Chastising people for eating honey while consuming industrial bee-pollinated almonds, for starters? Seriously?
Chastising people for riding horses (people who clearly love their horses) while killing your unborn child?
Chastising people for eating fish while consuming non-organic, pesticide-laden food that kills billions of birds, insects, fish, and other creatures every year?
The inconsistencies began to add up. And, I hate to say it, because I really do believe that most vegans absolutely have the best intentions, as I did … There was no ability in these groups to grapple with the hard questions.
I even frequently had the thought “wow, this person is really dumb” when conversing in vegan groups. The massive oversimplification, blind adherence to arbitrary “authority” figures, hypocrisy, and contradiction, boggled my mind.
And I don’t like calling people “dumb.” I don’t think it’s very respectful. Only when I did my deeper research on deficiencies of B-12 and DHA/EPA did it make more sense. I was dealing with an entire population of people whose brains – unbeknownst to them – were not functioning properly due to malnutrition.
Meanwhile, even before I came to the conclusion that most humans do in fact HAVE TO eat meat, fish, dairy, and eggs, at this stage of our evolution … it was becoming increasingly clear to me that veganism does not really solve anything.
Yes, we might be able to reduce the massive overpopulation of factory farmed livestock – and I don’t think anyone can really argue against that proposition.
But feed all humans the grain intended for livestock? Really? In an era of epidemic gluten intolerance? We are going to look to grain as our “savior”? I don’t think humans can live healthfully on grain.
And we won’t have solved our overall problems anyway, as many ex-vegan bloggers far more well-versed on these subjects have very carefully pointed out.
For me, veganism was about the end of death, literally. I want to abolish death on this planet.
But as time went on, it became more and more clear (as one of my coaching clients eloquently put it) … that veganism is a failed attempt to solve a quantum problem with forced Newtonian “solution.” Veganism does not actually escape the ego’s “cycle of life and death.” It merely attempts to adjust its way around it.
I will also say that the dogmatic, aggressive behavior of many of the vegans I witnessed (and how I witnessed my own personality change while on a diet of malnutrition) … was one of the biggest factors in me turning away from veganism. What began as a philosophy of “compassion” was more often turning into an “us versus them,” elitist, obnoxious, disrespectful, and totally hypocritical bunch of crap.
But the final death blow to veganism for me came from the intelligence of my own body. One day I had to step back and realize – even in the midst of tremendous malnutrition-induced brain fog – that it simply was not working. Thousands of dollars invested in supplements and special foods … and my alarming symptoms were only getting WORSE.
Then veganism is dead and buried. Once you realize that most humans cannot be healthy on a vegan diet, the other arguments in favor of veganism just become ludicrous.
It was only after I had decided to begin incorporating animal products … first fish, then eggs, then high vitamin K2 cheeses, and finally my first taste of red meat in probably close to four years … that I went online and researched about ex-vegans and why they left the movement.
The stories are fascinating and what’s truly remarkable is how similar were the debilitating symptoms that many of them were experiencing. If you’re interested, an excellent source of very thoughtful interviews on this subject are on the Let Them Eat Meat blog here.
Read a bunch of those Let Them Eat Meat interviews with an open mind and I think you’ll agree … it’s become very clear that our global problems, while admittedly dire, are not going to be solved by the mind that created them. Veganism is a mindset that operates within the failing paradigm, so it cannot solve the problems. It’s going to take a quantum leap. (More on that below.)
So that’s the story of my breakup with veganism. Again, I am not recommending anything to anyone at this time. I definitely feel better since I started eating animal products again. It’s clear to me that I used up my reserves of crucial nutrients because right now I want to eat animal products ALL THE TIME. I would imagine this will drop back down to a more moderate level once my depleted reserves are replenished.
Now that I am officially an ex-vegan … I’ll just end with this. I no longer have that leering disrespect for other people’s bacon cravings. Sure, they could be less crass about it. They may have an omega 6 to omega 3 imbalance themselves from the S.A.D. diet.
On the other hand, these bacon lovers may just be listening at some primal level to what their body needs.
When I had my near-death experience in 2006 and lost nearly half my blood, I was craving all kinds of weird foods – including red meat – for weeks after I got out of the hospital. Later, I researched it and discovered that every single food I craved was chock full of iron.
It turned out my body was absolutely trustworthy in telling me exactly what I needed to eat to replenish my blood.
I do believe, passionately, that all this can be reprogrammed at the level of the subconscious mind, but it’s not a small project. It would require a lot of commitment from a lot of people to accomplish it. We have to overturn the very deep-seated belief in the “cycle of life and death,” the genetic programming of humans, and the entire world we see. It’s a mammoth project.
Until that reprogramming occurs, the old rules apply. And I’ll tell you what I learned from this experience.
When idealism comes face to face with survival, for most of us, and rightly so, survival will win.
So yes, I am now an ex-vegan. I ate a cheeseburger, rare, two days ago for the first time in almost four years. It felt very satisfying. I ate the wheat bread and everything, didn’t order anything special. And my skin did not break out afterwards. I wonder if my food sensitivities will magically clear up along with everything else, now that I’m eating animal products again. It’s too soon to say. Stay tuned :)
Update: Please do be sure to read our follow-up article here on Why the Vegan Philosophy Collapses in A Pile of Contradictions and Hypocrisy.
Love,
Are these vegans atheists too? If you are a bible reader and believer, then you know God said for us to eat meat. Leviticus chapter 11. Do these vegans think God was wrong? Are they more righteous than He is? Are they of a higher moral authority? Too bad vegans, I follow a higher authority, not you.
Thank you for writing this article!
I tried veganism for almost two years (with the exception of easing off honey in the early stages).
At first I felt far better for it but then over the course of time, started noticing odd symptoms here and there as you did.
Food sensitivities that I never had before. Odd bruising and strange purple spots on my thighs. Aching legs of a morning.
When I look back, I realize I was totally living in denial.
Eventually I had a light bulb moment and realized that I was taking things to the extreme and that as a mother of three kids on the spectrum, my health and wellbeing mattered too.
Veganism is not sustainable for me, and in my opinion, actually goes against the natural eco-system and how all living organisms derive sustenance off each other to varying degrees.
Bearing this in my mind and my newly found interest in Taoism, I softened my stance. For me now, I look to what our ancestors did. I eat nutrient dense food and try to look for the most ethical options that I can. I do not take more than I need and I support ethical and sustainable practices rather than eating to excess and supporting big agriculture.
I first introduced oysters and mussels as my intuition (and horrid mood swings) were telling me my omega’s were critically low.
Then I decided to include eggs as there were some in the fridge and they had to be eaten (I had bought them for my kids who are not vegan).
Wasting food is worse than maintaining my vegan halo, in my opinion.
I ate them virtually runny, runny whites and all (something which I’d be deathly afraid to have tried years ago for fear of salmonella poisoning). Intuitively, I felt that I needed as many of the nutrients and minerals unaffected by heat as possible (nb: I would never do this with my kids. I just felt that I had gone so long without adequate omega’s and choline that this was an absolute must for me).
I have to say that I felt amazing from the moment I did it. I’m sure the physical effect didn’t kick in straight away but it like I realized that I had finally gathered to courage to admit that veganism wasn’t for me and I had freed myself of the self-imposed burden of being the perfect ethical example and embraced my human nature.
Sure, I know I’ll be told I ‘just didn’t do it right’ but honestly if I ‘did do it right’, I’d need about 5000 calories a day or more just to source the correct level of nutrients that I actually needed to thrive. Buying supplements was proving to be expensive and multi-vitamin pills were proving to be next to useless.
Many vegans do very well living this way but I was not one of them. Others that I’ve met have terrible skin and are visibly overweight and rather unhealthy looking.
Sure, this is true for omnivores too, but it just goes to show that veganism isn’t the magical cure all for everyone that some believe it to be.
It’s all about balance.
Peace <3
I’m glad you are taking care of yourself.
Erica, how do you eat now? What does your diet look like?
I’d love to know. I was vegan and I was having major issues also.
Thanks
Renée
Mild moral nihilism is the next step.
Stay strong.
Thank you for sharing your insights and experience of veganism. I am researching veganism at he moment and finally understanding y. Have sensed so much hostility from so many people in the environmental movement who call themselves vegan. Your article explains much. Thank you for helping me to heal after being subjected to long-term vegan abuse.
NOT TRUE. I HAVE BEEN A VEGAN FOR MORE THAN ELEVEN YEARS AND NEVER FELT BETTER. BESIDES, ONCE YOUR CONSCIOUSNESS IS HIGHER, YOU CAN NEVER GO BACK TO HARMING, TORTURING, ENSLAVING AND MURDERING INNOCENT CREATURES AND THIS PLANET, TOTALLY UNNECESSARILY. BEING MORE THAN 7,6 BILLION HUMANS ON EARTH TODAY, AND AROUND 9 BILLION BY MID-CENTURY, WE CANNOT KEEP THINKING, ACTING AND LIVING THE SAME WAY AS BEFORE. HUMANS HAVE YET TO LEARN TO RESPECT NATURE, NOW THAT WILL BE A REAL EVOLUTION. A SPIRITUAL EVOLUTION WHERE WE LEARN TO RESPECT AND PROTECT ALL SENTIENT BEINGS AS OUR EQUALS, ALL OF US EARTHLINGS. THIS PLANET IS NOT OURS AND NONHUMAN PERSONS ARE HERE WITH US, NOT FOR US. NOT VIEWING IT THIS WAY WILL ONLY BRING OUR OWN END. PERHAPS THAT IS WHAT WE DESERVE. VEGANISM IS THE AWAKENING HUMANS DESPERATELY NEED BEFORE WE COMPLETELY DEVASTATE LIFE ON EARTH.
As I’ve said about a thousand times, if you want these problems solved, they will not be solved at the level of the body. You will need to learn new skills, skills of the mind.
The all caps indicates some mental illness here. Perhaps a nice pulled pork sandwich would help.
i’m vegan for more than 12 years now.. i could also never go back!! I’m more healthy than ever, i have energy for ten! I used to feel exhausted every single day, but not anymore! Feeling alive more than ever. Plantbased food contains prana energy, the life force that maintains all life. Dead animals have no prana in them at all, so when you eat animals, you basically feed your body and mind with ‘death’.
Erika–
I’m old enough to be your grandmother, and I personally think you deserve a medal for responding to so many barely-civil vegans in a civil manner. I was a lacto-ovo vegetarian for over 20 years, and was not thriving on my diet in various ways (depression, brain fog, fatigue, etc.). I began to eat fish, and in the past few years have included chicken, turkey, and some occasional beef. I have had vegans online hate me for being a vegetarian when I still was one, and like you, figured if being a vegetarian was as bad as being a meat eater then what did I have to lose. I do feel better on an omnivorous diet. Thank you for not letting the militant vegans shut you up!
Thanks for the support Lori … glad you are feeling better.
Hi, I have a question, I’d appreciate any help. I used to have perfect skin even as a teenager, and within 2 months of going vegan, I noticed my skin was becoming dull and tired looking. I also broke out all over my face which never happened even during puberty. After about 4 months I reluctantly started eating meat again because I lost all glow in my face. I was looking 10 years older. It’s been a month since I quit being vegan but my skin still looks awful. I feel like I played with my hormones too much by changing up my diet so drastically? My question is, will my skin come back to looking smooth and glowing again ever..? Or am I stuck with this old looking face now..? I never would have changed my diet if I knew I’d end up looking this way. I’ve always had a babyface and now people tell me I’ve aged..
I can’t believe only within 1 or 2months my skin deteriorated.
I feel your pain. The same happened to me. Face and hair. Unbelievable how much damage was done in such a short time. I am doing a lot of energy healing and seeing more white hairs turning back to brown in the past few months. You might need to try various approaches until you find what works.
I think this is rediculous, I have been on a balanced plant based diet for 2 years and never felt better. I also think there is also a better connection to animals, birds in particular, but I don’t see many pigs living a natural life!
only Two years? You must be one of the “lucky ones” Give it another 2 or 3 years for the stored nutrients to run out and you start cannibalizing your own tissues. It is a slippery slope because initially you feel great and then like a frog in slowly heating water you dont really notice the negative changes
Yep the unfortunate thing is the cognitive issues affect the ability to assess what the diet is actually doing to you. Frog in water is quite an analogy. Still can’t believe how much white hair I got in those 14 months. Some of it still turning back to brown but way more slowly than it turned white :( would do just about anything to go back and not have made the vegan mistake.
I have been a vegetarian for over 5 years and a vegan
For the last 3 …. My skin is dull and dry …and I have breakouts which was prevalent when I was a teenager .
And I’m 65 …I have scalp dermatitis….
I’m tired and winded …..it’s comment like yours that
Make people feel like they are stupid .i.e. “I think this is rediculous “ Vegans or plant based people can get very
Judgemental and belittles another’s experience … Why are you reading this article if everything is just perfect for you ?? I know why I’m here ….
If I was you I wouldn’t go out and criticise the vegan lifestyle because it did not work for my body. There are 90 year old vegans and many people who were low on iron till going vegan. The whole idea of supplements is a business idea that started not that long ago, but due to the changes in our environment we do need B12 (even meat eaters)…veganism did not work for you, that doesn’t mean it is overall unsustainable. That’s like saying nuts are bad because some people are allergic or milk is bad because many people are intolerant…and if you weren’t getting EPA/DHA you were doing it wrong. Go off veganism, but keep it to yourself and see it as an issue with YOUR body, not veganism or you are making matters worse for animals and minorities.
Vegan diet has been very harmful to a lot of people. I will continue to offer folks the warning that I wish I had received, instead of the whitewashing that most of the vegan community is doing.
I loved this article, very encouraging. I have been vegan for about two years and just recently ended my vegan diet. I am now at a standstill in regards to how I want to proceed. I experienced nearly all of the symptoms that you mentioned in the article. My teeth have always been in top condition before I started this vegan diet. I have never had any cavities, teeth sensitivity, or tooth decay. Now, I have recently experienced teeth sensitivity and what I believe to be early signs of tooth decay. By the way, this is due to nutrient deficiency. I experienced constant migraines, fatigue, exhaustion, teeth sensitivity/damage, intolerance to many foods, anemia, etc.
For the past few days, I have just been trying to mend my relationship with food and to heal my body. My first non-vegan experience with food was a free food sample of a chicken taco at my local grocery store. I literally pondered over that chicken taco for the next few hours. I kept thinking about the negative effect it may have on my body, how it may raise my cholesterol/blood pressure and I think I actually may have felt sick. I believe that may have been completely self-inflicted, however, due to my own anxiety.
Like I said, at this point, I am at a standstill. I am not sure what I wish to incorporate back into my diet and what I don’t want to incorporate. I am not sure of the frequency in which I will be eating animal products again. I am just not sure of anything. I had some sushi for the first time ever because it was something I always wanted to try and I impulsively read an article after about how imitation crab is harmful to the body. I just want to get to some sort of healthy state with eating.
Diet is playing such a major role in my life that I feel as though it is suffocating me, which is a result of the vegan diet. I never used to feel this way about food. The vegan diet actually ended up doing nothing for me and I only reaped consequences. Many of us switched to the vegan diet in hopes of feeling healthier or getting to a healthy place, but the vegan diet did nothing of the sort for me. I just want to get to a place where I no longer feel anxious about my food choices.
I’m doing an essay on veganism and would be really grateful if any ex-vegans could fill out my survey. It takes only 5-10 mins and would really benefit me. Here is the link: surveymonkey.co.uk/r/DDRXQHQ
It’s healthy to free your body, mind, and soul from the prison of dogma.
Veganism isn’t truly helping anyone. In the end, we all have to die. Old or young, death comes, and it doesn’t care about what you ate or how you tried to drive it off.
The soul doesn’t care either. It hampers spiritual progress to becoming emotionally attached to any kind of food, plant or animal.
Let the fools continue their arrogance and banter. Do what your higher self says is right.
You are so much more than what any label can provide.
Be strong. Never let the moral code of someone else be forced onto you. That is a sign of their weakness to force their standards into an interaction, not yours.
Veganism truly helping animals. youtube.com/watch?v=b6yhwG5E1eQ
Interesting article and one that I can relate to. I was a vegetarian for about 12 years, and an unhealthy one at that. I started in the 90s when the focus was on simply avoiding meat based foods, and it seemed all we ate was processed garbage. My diet was forced to change when I entered the Army as an Infantryman in 2002. There was no accommodating a plant based diet, and I knew as grueling as the regimen was I would never survive 6 months of basic training and AIT. I do remember While being on a vegetarian diet, taking a physical for a local Fire Department exam. I was very active and maybe 10 pounds overweight. The doctors office mailed results to me of extremely elevated triglycerides in the range of 775! I blew this off and ignored it saying it must be a mistake, as I am a superior vegetarian, and it would be impossible to have those results…
Years later on a standard american diet (mostly grains and wheat based products) in 2012 I was suffering from constant fatigue, brain fog, enter a room to complete a task and forget why I was there, inability to lose weight or gain any muscle mass. I was diagnosed with Hypothyroidism. Years later and after researching and listening to my body, I believe that I basically poisoned myself by eating what we have been told was a healthy diet- low fats, small amounts of meat and higher amounts of vegetables and carbs. After attempting one my go at strict veganism, eating simply whole foods I cooked myself, I again found myself feeling lethargic and foggy, unable to get off the couch. I realized this was no coincidence and I discovered my body thrives on protein. Lots of it. I read books that discuss metabolic typing and blood type- basically that everyones genetics are different, and some people can thrive on a plant based diet, while others NEED red meat and to avoid most types of vegetables as they are like poison to them. Turns out the vegetables I was naturally turned off by such as wheat/gluten, soybeans, avacados, eggplants, white potatoes, kidney beans for example were all considered poison to my body. I’ve basically adopted a paleo type diet, avoiding as much processed food as possible, eating grass fed red meat, swordfish, tuna, and some vegetables that agree with me. No dairy however, and my stomach is MUCH happier. I suggest reading Eat Right for Your Type by Dr D’Admo. Very interesting research and tens of thousands (maybe more?) of people following his recommendations living better and feeling better.
Thanks for sharing your experience.
Erika!!!! Thank you!!!!! I have switched to plant based diets in the past to give my body a break. I briefly considered Veganism and followed numerous vegans on social media for inspiration. What I became was anything but inspired. You nailed my experience with too many vegans these days. Dogmatic, aggressive and judgmental too many have traded compassion for humanity for animals instead of believing that you can have both. With the emotional rigidity of a cult, I couldn’t bring myself to dive in. Plus the fact that gluten and corn is for damaging to my body and soy breaks me out in big nasty face boils. All in all I’m thankful that you shared. I know you’ve take. Many lumps.
Thank you. Much appreciated.
Hi. I loved your article. It is very well written. I am a layman in the area of nutrition and most of my knowledge is based on internet searches. I have PCOS. Recently a vegan friend suggested that I could cure PCOS on a vegan diet. Funny thing is, a couple of years ago I was asked to cut out on milk by a nutritionist and I did. Of course I did not go full vegan but ever since an infant, I always thrived on milk. A few weeks after I stopped drinking milk, I started falling sick every other week, I was quick to catch a cold and a fever. After a few more months of feeling lethargic and constant sickness I restarted on milk. I realized that since I was used to milk my body was asking for it. Of course many will critique me and say that I should have gone full vegan but I don’t think it will agree with me. I was born premature at 7 months, as a result my eye sight has never developed properly. Due to lack of awareness, I took on spectacles after squinting at everything ar weird angles for 10 years of my life. My ophthalmologist had suggested me never to give up on fish for the sake of my eyes. I have both spherical and cylindrical power and beyond 55° on either side, I am actually blind. When I had given up on milk for a few months, my eye power had managed to increase by – 1.5 and – 2 within a year, as an adult, which wasn’t supposed to happen as I had been stable ever since 16. But vegans refuse to understand. They say that I am playing the victim because I want to kill. A year ago my middle-aged mom had a full hysterectomy (due to the near possibility of cervical cancer). Her doctor forced her to start drinking milk and eggs, both of which she did not like the taste of. I agree some vegans may be healthy on a vegan diet but they do not understand that not everyone will thrive on a full vegan diet. Every one’s body is different, as per my limited knowledge on the subject.
Apart from that, being from a small town in India, I have also pointed out several other factors why the Indian populous cannot go vegan. Economic factors is a big issue here. But even them some call me out as irrational. I have stopped arguing since.
However, here are my thoughts on the subject and I would ask everyone to at least keep an open mind to consider this. Please do share your views on the same and share if you find it helpful.
youthkiawaaz.com/2018/03/veganism-is-a-rich-mans-privilege-i-am-an-average-indian-and-i-cannot-afford-to-go-vegan/
You were never a vegan. You were just plant based. You lied to yourself.
My sinlessness is guaranteed by God. Good day.
Wow Erika,
I had shared so many of your symptoms in my slow ascent into veganism. My ex bf was a diehard vegan, and I had been off and on with it in previous years, making me quite anemic in those years, requiring monthly iv infusions.
He convinced me I wasnt taking the right co supplements. So i restarted doing probiotics, enzymes, mushroom blends etc. It was so difficult as I was food intolerant to so many vegan things, like sesame and all nuts pretty much. I had rashes all over, stomach distension from anything okra, eggplant, chickpea, or excessive seeds. Dental pain amd joint pain which I never had before, weakness and I was looking more and more sallow. I have never put on weight the way I did going fully vegan, eating at vegan only restaurants. I had it with feel so sick and after splitting w the guy I went back on eggs, and finally wild caught fish here and there. I am the strongest and healthiest looking I have been in years.
I did start dieting recently, and had some stomach trauma, which caused me to hemmorage terrible for a week. I went back on the vegan high spinach citrus magnesium diet, and it just kept internally bleeding.. i was so scared to end up in the emergency room.. i sucked it up and got an organic burger. Seriously, if it was my life on the line or some meat, I’m going to take the meat any day. None of the supplements and veggies was stopping my bleeding like the meat did, and I’ll take on any vegan that will say otherwise.
Your health is priceless.
Thank you!
Thanks for sharing. Have a read of Anita Moorjani’s book Dying to Be Me. It sheds light on how these “regimens” only get us deeper into fear and self-loathing, and fear is the actual cause of dis-ease. Her book also shows that healing has absolutely nothing to do with diet. Which I’ve known from witnessing my own miracle healing events and it was very nice to have it affirmed by her remarkable experience.
Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! This was such an intelligent and well written post. I really appreciate this information!
Glad it was helpful :)
Erika,
I’m not sure if I completely and totally believe that, (and not to nitpick) being that fear is natural, and useful, too much of its not good, and I’m sure I see where the authors going with well intentions.
I do however think it’s counterproductive to be so concerned with foods so much that you stop enjoying them. No “diet” should be your life! I certainly have seen strict diets over rated as well. Food should be healthy but also pleasurable!
Take a look at the “blue zones”. (owkinans, Sardinians, etc)
They eat whole foods, pork, fish, dairy, wine, they don’t make long lists, of foods not to eat.. there is however an emphasis on community, family taking care of family, outdoors, closeness, tradition, and of course lots of love.
it’s helpful article , thanks
I thank veganism for having improved my attention to farming issues (that are related to other food categories too, thou) and for the larger consume of plant foods in general that remains in my current diet. I also thank my body who was so more intelligent then I to understand, after one year, that plants are not inherently benign nor animal food is that bad if in moderation and eco-sustainable way, on contrary. Veganism was a good detox for me, good for some months, but very bad symptoms started to occur after 6-7 months up to the give-up at the end of the year, 12 months exact after: experiment ended. Red meat, in particular goat/sheep, rabbit or venison is not only not bad, it is so beneficial to my body and I could even eat it raw. Bloating, anemia, fatigue, cramps, muscle soreness, brain-fog, cold sore, immune system depression (labial herpes) after some long endurance sport what I had not before, etc.all disappeared after consuming some. It is not placebo, it is real. I did not start to eat meat everyday indeed, only when my body asks, once a week for now plus organic eggs e some goat cheese. Veganism (I did whole plant based no junk, all good stuff, nuts seeds beans veggies, herbs, everything you can name “clean”..what a terrible world to associate with food) would bring me to eating disorder what I never had in my life, I had a good relationship with food, no binge eating and was moderate with animal food (Mediterranean diet you’d call). I found this blog and the hundreds of similar stories just one day after waking up. I can’t believe I was lured into the mythology by the “expert” vegan MDs for so long. It’s true that as long as you won’t look, information is invisible to your eyes.
Hi Erika,
I’m so glad I came across this blog. I know it’s an older post but am I still hoping for some advice I’d you have the time to give it.
I’ve was vegan for around two years, vegetarian about a decade before that. During the last 6 months of my veganism my health took I nose dive. I suffer with a hormonal and metabolic disorder that causes insulin resistance, weight gain and currently estrogen dominance, which puts me at high risk for infertility, cervical cancer and breast cancer. I had lactating breasts (I’m 27, not pregnant) and was told my estrogen levels were off the charts. This scared the hell out of me.
I also found out my chronic brain fog, joint pain and growing anxiety was due to a deficiency on “good” fats.
I seeked help from a naturopath who explained that given my disorder I can’t process a lot of carbs, need to eat high good fats and that I’m intolerant to legumes, soy, wheat and dairy. I needed to balance me sugars and loose weight to realign my hormones. Something not matter how well I ate or how much I exercised I couldn’t do on a vegan diet.
Given all
Of this it makes being vegan and healthy pretty much impossible so I’ve started to eat backyard eggs and small amounts of free range poultry. Something I didn’t want to do.
I feel more energised, have lost some weight and my chronic fatigue has minimised.
I’m just absolutely terrified however, to “come out” as non-vegan now. I have a pretty large Facebook and Instagram following of vegans as well as hardcore vegan friends, who I know won’t understand. I’ve seen these “friends” chastise “omnis” and ex vegans to points of extreme bullying and given my emotional state I can’t deal with that.
Part of me wants to hide it, but I hate dishonesty and no longer want to depict a lifestyle that not “everybody” can live healthy on as one that is. The whole veganism is the best lifestyle for everything ones health and wellbeing is one I’d like to abolish. It simply does not work for anything, no matter how hard they try. I’m proof of this.
So I guess what I want to ask is, how did you deal with the backlash?
Should I stand strong and “come out” or hide away, create new private social media and hope I’m forgetten about?
Many thanks xox
Hi Bec,
Oh boy … I feel for you. Honestly? I would tap through it … I wouldn’t even try to make choices in that kind of situation without tapping my way through all my inner conflicts …
Hi Bec I really feel for you. If I was you I wouldn’t announce to your vegan “friends” you’re not vegan – just move away from them gradually. Focus on building new friendships with people who won’t judge you for being you (aka normal!). Be kind to yourself – you’re definitely doing the right thing. It takes a lot of courage to stand up to bullies and even more to stand up to your own beliefs and decide to change them. Be proud of that. My vegan sister told me I should advertise for vegans only on air b&b because then I’ll only get nice people to stay lol … when you’re part of the vegan community you’re lead to believe the only nice people are vegan, the truth is there’s a whole world out there of kind, compassionate, loving people who don’t choose a vegan diet. If you feel like you’re part of a “vegan family” there are plenty of other people out there who will be your friends like family without bullying you in to making yourself sick. I really respect and admire what you’re doing – stick with it :-) xoxo
Thank you for this article! I spent 5 years living a vegan lifestyle and experienced many of your same negative side effects…. chronic migraines, join paint and inflammations, psoriasis, and my body was not recovering from workouts. My general practitioner though I was suffering from some type of auto immune disease. I went to a Naturopathic Physician who encouraged me to introduce fish back into my diet. Once a did this my symptoms began to improve. I chose to do a Whole 30 and at the end of the 30 days all of my symptoms had disappeared. I eat a paleo diet now and am the strongest and healthiest I have ever been. It is so sad to read all the negativity that has been posted above. Different diets work for different people… end of story….
Thanks Alissa. I am so glad you are feeling better.
I agree wholeheartedly with this.
My mind and morals want me to be vegan so much but my physiology won’t allow it.
Veganism was deterimental to “my” health and all these people saying but this and that you weren’t doing that or I’m super healthy eating vegan and so is this vegan and that vegan is irrelevant. Everybody is unique and even though I’d love it to be true, not everyone can thrive on a vegan diet, it’s just as simple as that.
What right do they have to say what is right for “my” body…?
Do you think you might have a problem with taurine conversion? It’s a non-essential amino acid, so most people are able to make it. See e.g. webmd.com/vitamins-supplements/ingredientmono-1024-taurine.aspx?activeingredientid=1024
And the other issues:
Vitamin A – again, 98 percent of people can convert beta carotene to vitA. If you can’t, you’ll know because your skin will be orange after eating carrots, spinach, etc. Some people convert it better than others, but eating e.g. a few carrots and some spinach together with some fat should be enough for everyone (unless you are one of the 2 per cent who cannot convert it at all)
Vitamin D – I hear this mentioned a lot. This is a problem for everyone who 1. doesn’t eat oily fish several times a week (which is not healthy due to toxicity and definitely not good for the environment) 2. lives in the Northern hemisphere 3. uses sunscreen and/or doesn’t spend time outside around noon
DHA/EPA – some people convert better than others (from ALA which is in flaxseed, chis seeds, hemp seeds, walnuts) BUT the bigger issue usually is that people eat a lot more omega 6 than omega 3. Basically, the only way to be sure is to have 2 spoons of chia or flaxseed every day, limit too added oils and possible supplement with (vegan) Omega 3 with DHA/EPA
Iron – plenty of it in spinach and other leafy greens, lentils, apricots, raisins, fortified cereals…BUT it has to be eaten with food containing vit C
Vitamin B-12 – of course, supplementing is necessary
Other B vitamins – legumes, potatoes, avocado, seeds…. this should be easy!
Taurine – see above (most people can make their own)
Carnosine – non-essential, we make our own
Creatine – made by liver so not necessary, you can supplement, info here nutritionfacts.org/video/creatine-brain-fuel-supplementation/
Calcium – greens such as kale or collard greens are great sources (better absorption than from milk), other options: calcium set tofu, fortified milk, figs, oranges, sesame seeds, poppy seeds, molasses…
Vitamin K2 (This one is a killer, don’t overlook it. It is not to be confused with Vitamin K1, they are not the same thing.) – our bodies can convert it from K1
To sum up, I think if you are eating healthily but feeling rubbish after paying attention to the above, you might have a conversion problem. I eat a plant-based diet and feel great and I believe that most problems can be solved by making sure you eat enought Omega 3s, lots of greens and supplement with vit D and B12 (which are two vitamins even meat eaters should be aware of). On the other hand, e.g. someone who cannot convert Beta carotene into vit A simply cannot rely on plant sources, so I understand this way of eating might not be suitable for everyone. But I do believe it’s suitable for the majority of people and articles like this one might be a bit misleading.
Hi,
I agree ith you.Istarted a plant based diet.I dont call myself Vegan cause I dont want to identify myself with that group of fanatics,and pseudo cult/religion with all the stereotypes ignorance and nonsense.
If you ask me I think your problem was exactly that.Sayin im going to be vegan from today!
Then read what it is to be vegan,what you are suposed to eat,deficiencies…First of all it should have been an organic decision.By that I mean there should have been a transition of 3 motnhs or 2 years,whatever you needed cutting groups of food out of your diet cleansing yourself and adjusting your body mind and lifestyle to this new way of nutrition.
I also would like you to post your diet as vegan.You were surely eating a lot of grains and cereal,lot of soy products and starchy carbs.Lot of vegetal protein to compensate etc…Probably a lot of your health problem were due to gluten sensitivity soy related problems and the lack of energy because of the energy you spent digesting all that legume grains etc.
You felt good soon as you ate meat again cause you didnt become vegan after a transition realizing you didnt want to eat meat.Not for the animals but because you prefered to eat bananas…Thats my case.I dont crave meat or fish. i eat greens and fruit,not vegan food oy grain etc. I dont think of deficiencies or protein. I eat natural food that taste good has nutrients and is digested well like fruit greens and nuts.And my body tells me is good.
So next time (because you wont be able to keep meat forever) dont say..im going to be vegan. Do your own research,not everything labeled vegan is good. Vegan with most of their diet on fruit and greens leafs do much better than vegans on tofu sweet potatos etc etc
Your body is always goign to vrve milk nd meat,your brain is conditioned to it just like a smoker tobacco.That doesnt mean its good for you. My advice is cut meat and fish to once a week,eat legumes and cut dairy all together.Then take meat out and become pescatarian,supplement b12 if you want to but dont overstress about it. Cut grains cereals out.then cut fish out and eat only fruit greens and legumes.Last step cut legumes to very few days a week.Last phase,you wont need legumes,furit and greens will be enough.Youll have more energy then at highschool,your skin will glow and you wont have any craving for meat or fish. Feel free to eat dairy on ocasions cheese or a yoghurt once or twice a month .thres no need to be paaranoic about it. You will enjoy it and realize that while it tastes good,its not healthy and you dont need to eat it everyday/week.
Going vegan without the physical mental transition is non sense.
And with all respect,you want to say veganism does not work for a whole lot of people.I disagree,its just that there is people able to stick through the healing process and handle the cravings and detox symtomps. Other people sucumb to the fear of lacking nutrients or are eating a wrong vegan diet. No wonder if you were eating grains cereals and soy you felt bad…But that doesnt mean that the meat diet pescatarian or mediterranean is better.It just mean that your vegan diet was wrong,you were doing something wrong.And supplements was not the answer.The answe rprobably was stop eating some of the vegan products you were consuming and stop worrying about nutrition deficiencies while listening more to your body. Im not going back to eating animals for anything in the world.Yes I know if I eat a stek right now my brain is going to make me feel good,cause its a drug response after abstinnence.That doesnt necesarily mean its good for me.
I want to add in my two cents here. A vegan diet is shitty at best because you are not going to get any better nutrition than animal products. The correct ideal diet is a fruitarian diet. We are fruitarians at heart. Fruit is the only food that is completely alkalizing and hydrating to the body. Live vibrationally high brightly colored fruit picked at the right time has the ability to rebuild tissues and strengthen us. Please research dr morse, he is a man who rebuilds ms patients thru fruit and herbal detox. The reason so many feel so tired on the vegan diet is WEAK ADRENAL GLANDS. And ur not gonna strengthen those with broccoli and quinoa. The only thing that can rebuild those tissues is fruit. Please don’t misunderstand, this diet is very difficult for most people. But you will be rebuilding ur body on a cellular level and reconnecting it with ur etheric dna blueprint. Ur gonna def lose nutrients on a vegan diet bc most everyones adrenals are down, these are what utilize nutrients. Meat has no place in the human body, it putrifies in the intestines not to mention is full of parasites. U FEEL BETTER EATING IT BC THE STIMULANTS IN MEAT STIMULATE UR ADRENALS AND KIDNEYS LEADING TO AN ENERGETIC HIGH. Its the same as drinking coffee, its all stimulation not true cellular strength. Pleaseee understand i am not trying to provoke, only enlighten.
You are not enlightening, you are attempting to brainwash people with unverifiable material.
Any true expert in nutrition would never suggest what you are pushing. It’s impossible to get everything from fruit alone.
some animals evolved to eat only fruit, but we aren’t one of them. We have our own dietary requirements and determining what that is takes knowledge in chemistry and nutrition. Every different species has a unique body chemistry that needs different things. There is no such thing as a one-size-fits-all approach. If you can survive on fruit alone, that’s amazing. More power to you. But don’t delude yourself into thinking your body works the same way as someone else’s. Also, don’t let any authority figure tell you any of this. Think for yourself.
Hi~ although I also have the symptom of feeling a bit extra thirsty, this can come by through eating more water-rich vegan foods such as juicy fruits :)
Need to CORRECT you on taurine – taurine is an amino acid made up of methionine and cysteine, both of which are contained in vegetables and fruits (the most abundant ones are sea kelp, Brussel sprouts, broccoli etc), and the body can synthesise taurine from these two building blocks. Hence you should not be deficient in taurine unless you have a synthesis problem, is an athlete doing heavy exercises, or undereating.
Hi Erika and thank you so much for your story. I have been vegan for 1.5 years, had B12 deficiency 8 months ago and started taking pills, which solved it but gave me acne, so 2 months ago I switched to smaller doses, and for a month I have been experiencing what I believe is again a deficiency, in B12 or something else…
Feeling dizzy most of the time, tired, difficulties to focus, anxious… So I’d like to try going back to an omni diet to see if it helps.
I wanted to ask you how long did it take for you to feel better after you started to eat animal products?
Thank you
Lou
Hi Lou, sorry to hear you’ve been experiencing this. My sense is that the deficiencies on a vegan diet are myriad and difficult to identify, beyond the obvious ones. There are lots of micro nutrients as well. I started feeling better almost immediately, though there are some symptoms that have never fully cleared. Hope you feel better soon.
Thank you!
Were you taking B12 supplements too? I know some vegans are healthy with supplements, but I am thinking maybe our bodies just aren’t able to absorb it as well as others, if it doesn’t come from whole foods…
Yes I was taking a wide array of supplements by the end …
Dear Erika,
I am not vegan or even vegetarian now. I eat mostly plant-based diet, but also animal products time to time.
Reading your very interesting article as a spiritual person I found it illogical… Please forgive me this words, but these are my feelings as a woman who lives using law of attraction since childhood…(I do not like call it law of attraction, coz it just natural human skill)
You are teaching law of attraction other people so you should be a good example of that. Food is neutral. I think food was not a problem, but your thinking about food. That led you directly to health problems. If you truly believe you can live long and healthy only on bananas you will. And you also said it in your post, between the lines. I know it from my experience. I went vegan/vegetarian in 2010, coz I saw many films about animal food production that time. The same as you, the more I saw, read, heard, the more I had eating problems – soon naturally very slim person as me gained 30 pounds. I had many of your sympthoms. I felt awful. But I knew why. Since childhood I was different – created things easily, felt energy etc. and from the very beginning I tried to be vegan/vegetarian I had no good thinking of it. I was doing it force my soul., doing it for animals. Why it was illogical? I knew that in this world one eat another and human and we all chose what life we want to live. The same is with other creatures. We are here to gain experience. I know that food is not bad by the time you think it is bad, you think you have no enough nutrients, you think you must eat bio, coz other food is toxic, you imagine horrible pictures in your mind etc. I think you know this. And I decided to came back to my universe as I call this great feeling of separation from physical world. I just made click and started to be sure all what I eat is good for me, even cola and sugar :) It took some time to by fully sure of that of course, but as always, it works. There is no other power then energy what we put in every thing in our life. If you feel bad and you start think that tea makes you ill, you will go in that thinking deeper, you will ill soon and you will have all proofs you are right :) I think your last stage before ended veganism was exactly caused by long thinking about food, about what is good, what is bad, what you can eat, what you can not, what it is toxic or not, how poor animal are, about pesticides, ph, how many meals you should eat, when you should drink etc. etc. :)
I wish you all the best in creation only things what you really want :)
Big hugs :)
Ewa Cuper
Hi Ewa,
Thanks for your comment. I’ve been doing a lot of tapping about veganism lately and believe you are on to something … let me express. All my life, actually, I have known that diets don’t work. They don’t work for anyone. We merely need look around at all the people attempting to lose weight and keep it off on a diet – and how very rarely that actually works long term – to know that a diet is not an effective approach to problem solving.
In many ways, veganism was the same problem. It attempts to address a problem at the level of our belief system (the belief in sacrifice and victimhood) at the level of the body – instead of addressing it at the level of the mind, where the problem was created. And so it works AGAINST the unconscious mind instead of working with it … It also pulls us into a very low vibration re manifestation because it focuses on a purported “physical solution” just as pharmaceuticals and other physical solutions never heal anything and are very low vibrational options. I’m not saying they are never useful – sometimes to buy time for real healing … but certainly one need only look at the state of health care in this country to know that our “physical solutions” for things are not working.
Veganism is based on a low vibrational idea of victimhood and physical solution to victimhood. Therefore it is doomed to failure.
By contrast, Jesus manifested fish and loaves out of thin air, proving that food is “causeless.” From there, with that skill, we can solve a problem at the level of the mind. Either not needing food at all … or being able to manifest from thin air whenever needed.
Now when I eat, I affirm to myself that the food is causeless. And I am actively working on the belief system that requires food for life at all. That is how these problems will get solved.
Nothing has ever, ever been solved with a diet. And it never will be. I knew this even as a child. And only a lot of ego-based rhetoric got me to override my core intuitions. I take responsibility for that but have no interest in going that direction ever again.
Fish and loaves. That is the answer to this problem. And anyone who cares about solving the problem needs to be developing their skills with solving problems with their mind and not their body.
Good day to you.
“Food is neutral” because “law of attraction”
Ok, jump from a cliff and see if law of attraction works.
I believe in law of attraction (not the way “the secret” puts it) but there are also other laws such as gravity and the nutritional stuff. I love meat and eat it everyday and its amazing to my body, i also love sweets, cake, chocolate but i do eat my vegetables, work out and run. its about balance. The author is completely right to listen to her body and eat whatever she wants that feels good.
Also, i love meat but that doesnt mean i like animals suffering. If you have to kill an animal why don’t you do it the fast way with the less pain possible? We have chicken in the farm and we eat them, but while they’re alive they eat well, they walk around freely, they live it up until its time to serve their purposes.
The laws that seem to govern this world are illusory but that doesn’t mean they won’t seem to have effects while we believe in them. Which is why everyone bellyaching on this post needs to start doing the inner work instead.
Very interesting read and comment section, thanks. I have tried veganism and have usually ended up incorporating some animal products back into my diet. I feel better when I do have some animal products, but I think a happy-medium or a moderate approach is possible. Lots of ex-vegans jump fully back on the bandwagon, with steaks and meat every single day, but the animals aren’t suffering any less than before they realised veganism wasn’t sustainable for them. It’s worth considering when giving up veganism that maybe you don’t need to eat that much meat. As for me, I’m mostly vegan but if I come across a bit of “incidental” dairy when eating out or at social gatherings, I’ll have it. I don’t eat any kind of meat. I eat clams, scallops, and small fish, along with eggs now and again – and I find I don’t need these more than once or twice a week. As food, octopus, crabs, lobsters, and other similar shellfish freak me out conceptually speaking. My conscience is okay and I feel great and energetic, but I look forward to any natural products that can help me go vegan and feel completely vital every day. Moderation and a happy medium – no need to go back to a meat-heavy diet as that’s not really good for you anyway.
Also, I take magnesium, probiotics, and zinc – not to compensate for my low-animal-product diet but just for general health and well-being.
Low animal product diet and vegan are a far cry from each other.
I’ve been thinking about and tapping a lot about veganism lately, because it wasn’t just my health but actually my whole life took a nose dive that year.
It’s more and more clear to me that the problem was trying to “solve a problem” at the level of the body, which never works. That lowered my energetic vibration and took me out of my usual vibration of miracles.
Nobody is going to solve the world’s problems with a diet. Period. End of story. Not negotiable. This problem will be solved when people commit to learning Christ like skills and start seeing the world as causeless. The fish and loaves didn’t come from animals or plants, so no suffering or destruction occurred. They were causeless. That is the way, and the only way, this problem will be solved.
All this endless debating by endless numbers of people who come here is absolutely useless and will solve nothing. Peace.
Hi This was an amazing read! I hate reading articles and I skim through about a quarter of most pages before losing interest. But I loved and read all of this post. Really interesting. Thank you for your well written honest experience.
I was vegan for 5 years and it wrecked havoc on my health. I too was taking boatloads of supplements and always looking online for something..anything that would make me feel normal. The last supplement I bought was olive leaf for heart palpitation and increasing blood pressure. As my health continued to worsen I doubled down on the green smoothies, bowls of blueberries, beet juice, hibiscus tea, oats, seeds, beans, chia pudding, cocoa nibs…only to feel worse. Tests showed I was chronically low in magnesium even though I was eating loads of spinach, kale, beans, almonds and pumpkin seeds. What I didn’t realize was that all the ‘superfoods’ I was consuming daily were loaded with oxalates. I was consuming no dairy calcium and no B vitamins except in supplement form. At the time I was taking 25 supplements. I developed pelvic and urinary problems and spent thousands on expensive medical tests. I developed severe joint pain as the oxalates wrecked havoc on every part of my body. My thinking became foggy. I became anxious. I had no energy and often went to bed at 7. I attributed all my problems to being 53 and vowed to eat even more ‘healthy’. When the pain in my hands became so bad I could no longer hold my phone I researched arthritis and came upon an article that state the first thing arthritis patients should do is look at their diet and consumption of high oxalate foods. Well everything I was eating at the time was high oxalate. For the past 6 months I have been enjoying cheese, poultry, occasionally fish, eggs and big thick steaks. I no longer nor will I ever eat any medium to high oxalate foods..EVER. This morning I had a salad with steamed bok choy (bok choy has almost no oxalates and is one of the few green veggies that isn’t loaded with them, apple, a bit of onion and garlic, mango, lemon juice and 4 big slices of mozzarella cheese. I feel better than I have in years. All my arthritis symptoms are gone along with bladder issues and the chronic fatigue.
Yep … boy do I know this story well … and yep it took quite a while for my hip joints to feel normal again …
The problem with magnesium also for vegans is that a deficiency of something else means you won’t absorb the magnesium .. didn’t matter how many supplements I added, either … Vegan diet threw the balance out of everything.
Thank goodness we both stopped before it was too late, though I am fairly certain my unclear thinking in that time period did no favors to my cat :( and he’s gone now.
Hi, maybe I missed it in your blog but reading these comments I hear you frequently mention that your cat died, what happened? Did you try to make him Vegan too?
No I did not try to make him vegan. Don’t even get me started on the insane hypocrisy of veganism on living in the same house with carnivores.
Nope veganism got us out of the realm of miracles and into the realm of negative things happening. and then when negative things started to happen, I was not myself. I am usually incredibly resourceful. If he’d had issues in 2012 when I was not vegan, I am confident I would have succeeded in getting him fully healed instead of the disastrous path we ended up on.
Veganism is a contradiction to miracles. It pulls people down into a very low vibration of sacrifice and pain. I don’t recommend the belief system to anyone. Fish and loaves, people. Fish and loaves.
I came across this blog while doing a search for articles on veganism, financial solvency and spirituality. I’ve been a vegan for about 7 years, and I’m hitting a point where I am questioning why I decided to do it, the circles of people I’m now associating (or not associating with), the costs of eating vegan, and how it is affecting my social life and finances. I haven’t been feeling too happy. So many of the vegans I know are angry or have some axe to grind. I left a Facebook group recently because I love horses–owned them when I was younger and love to ride. One of my favorite childhood activities was going with my family to the Ringling Brothers circus in NYC. The child in me loves to see animals entertain and delight–the adult in me doesn’t want animals to suffer. I’m having a hard time reconciling the two. I left another Facebook group over a discussion about which luxury vehicle would be the best choice for a vegan (I replied “Used. Hybrid. Driven only when walking or biking not desirable or time effective.” Everybody else was going nuts over the glue used to bind the leather bucket seats…) I’m also an athlete and concerned about my nutrition and long term health–the idea that I might actually be ritualistically starving myself didn’t sit well with me. Also, things I’ve considered like going to an all vegan festival that costs hundreds of dollars for the privilege of admission—or spending $6500 (plus jet fuel and creating a huge carbon footprint) to go on a destination “plant based/yoga/spiritual awakening” experience” (what I could do with $6500!!) How my veganism might actually be making me BROKE. Listening to a podcast about people raving about theirTeslas. Who the HELL can afford a Tesla??
Gotta be a better way to make this all make sense….
This might be an old thread and I don’t know if my comments will be read, but I just wanted to put it out there that this is giving me some real food for thought.
Thank you for creating this blog!
Yes thanks for pointing out the connection between veganism and poverty … they both arise from a lack and scarcity and sacrifice mentality
I am vegan by oath, I swore o never eat meat again, unless it was really necessary.
I did ”nofap” and ate a fruit-based diet, because I saw a Japanese person eating only fruits and fermented ? salty fruit peels, without drinking any kind of water or eating anything else, for 7 years, and he even had 30% higher bone density than average. Some people are really fit to follow the vegan diet. Lately I ate more hemp seed, flax seed, omega-3 eggs, and noticed insomnia, and emotions slightly returning. The longer I did not eat fish, the weaker I became. Right now I have heart palpitations, insomnia, no focus, brain fog, forgetfulness, painful scalp, I supplement with K2, D3, B12, Mg, and overall my nutrients are complete, ever since I started high ALA diet, I noticed improvements in skin and hair, but somehow, my energy is low. When I ate fruit and fish, I did have horrible constipation and oily skin, BUT I had a lot of confidence, and energy, andI looked younger in pictures. During times of insomnia, my body whispers ”omega-3” and I’m really tempted to eat a can of tuna. But I’m afraid that it will downregulate my delta 6 saturase enzyme. You are right and I believe that some people (like Japanese, or certain Asian groups) have great capability to convert ALA to EPA. EPA can be converted further to DHA by the body. However, for most of us, a little bit of animal products like eggs, bivalves or small-fry fish can do wonders for the body.
I also wanted to add that I had chronic tonsils and UTIs which have not come back ever since I stopped eating meat.. and I don’t think it is co-incidence because I used to get them on a regular basis.. If you decide to eat meat, I would recommend most people should reduce their intake and look for free range, hormone free, organic and grass fed. It might make a differences because I believe my body inflammation issues are all to do with consuming meat.
I’m from Australia, and the Dieticians Association of Australia has said that with good planning, those covering a vegan diet can cover all their nutrient bases. You need to be more aware of Iron, Calcium and Omega 3, but you can get this all through plant based diet. B12 is something which is the only thing you cannot, and you need to supplement. I think some people flourish on a vegan diet and some people may not, and if you don’t that is totally fine. I have heard some people with an O blood group have more difficulty (although the blood type diet is very evidence poor). A vegan diet is possible, but I would say most people would go through hurdles because they are making huge changes to their body and you have to do tonnes of planning and eat lots of good plant based foods. If you think about it, there are people in different parts of the world who eat very little meat and live mostly on vegetables and are healthy like in India. Further, a study from 2010 estimated that there are 1,450 million vegetarians of necessity and another 75 million of choice. They make approximately 21.8% of the world’s population. I checked the source and the stats are from the Economic and Social Research Institute. They are a research institute from Ireland and this is what they do : The ESRI produces research that contributes to understanding economic and social change in the new international context and that informs public policymaking and civil society in Ireland. I think at the end of the day, listen to your body and do what is right for you. If you need meat every now and then or dairy now and then, eat it. Your body will want it, and you shouldn’t always deny it…But from what I have read and understand, having a meat based diet is not healthy for a lot of reasons. I have been vegetarian now for 6 months and I decided to look into it because I was having constant bloat, eczema, lethargy and feeling moody a lot of the time. I was eating healthy but eating meat about twice a day, and exercising. After switching to veg, I have loads more energy, my bloat has gone, I feel a lot happier all the time (I can’t not be happy its scary) and for some strange reason I feel more calm and compassionate. I no longer have this burning stress feeling if I am running late to something or if I am worried. At the same time, I did have a bit of hair fall (which has stopped now), my periods aren’t always on time (I used to be 28 days on the dot.. but it may change back we will see.. I think its due to major diet shift) and I can’t exercise as vigorously as I used to be able to. I feel nauseated and anxious if I over do it and do boot camp… but is our body designed to do this anyway ?? I prefer now doing gentle jogs. I think at the end of the day, it takes time for the body to adjust .. and from what I understand the human body has evolved to require some animal product (this is why B12 is not found in any plant based foods). I think everyone should try it and if they notice more peril then positive, then having some animal based product in the diet is ok… and hopefully that person won’t consume animal meat in 2 out of the 3 meals they used to have ! Because I doubt it is good for you! (more acidic and bad fats). Also.. I’m sure vegan brains function well !! Haha some of the smartest most compassionate people I know are so intelligent and are the smartest people I know its crazy how smart and evolved they actually are (another reason I was attracted to veg lifestyle). Thanks
I don’t think you needed to bullshit for this many paragraphs if you wanted clicks.
how does this comment add any value to the conversation?
This woman took a lot of supplements and even then she didn’t felt good, she wanted to continue her diet, but the environment and her body also showed warning signs that something is not good. Erika then tried to eat a can of tuna and felt much better, I know she regretted it at first, but she deserved it after trying so hard to follow the vegan diet!
This article is lame. Can’t believe I even bothered with three paragraphs.
A lot of bro-science in this blog. Also, the tone of the replies to comments really unsettles me, I think everyone is entitled to their opinion and I’m not a vegan, but I have read and watched enough to know eating meat probably isn’t the best route to go down for health. It just seems this blog is self-justifying and written in a way that is actually made to absolve you from feeling any guilt – not so much as to present a fairly balanced argument. Also, you mention below something about ‘mistrusting authority’ etc. but you are deleting all the negative comments and refusing to answer people’s points? That’s a bit hypocritical, to condemn government bodies and organisations for lying while presenting a bias truth yourself?
I am not deleting comments that disagree with me. I am deleting comments from vegans who – probably due to malnutrition – cannot distinguish between a conflicting opinion and a personal attack. Yours is borderline because you insist on psychoanalyzing me. Vegan diet caused grave harm to me and those I love, and was falsely advertised by vegans as being “safe.” I will continue to warn the public to be exceedingly cautious about the situation.
Asays ” but I have read and watched enough to know eating meat probably isn’t the best route to go down for health. ” You mean we humans have been doing it all wrong for the last 5 million years? Its not animal foods that are responsible for the modern epidemics of degenerative diseases, it is modern processed foods loaded with refined carbohydrates and vegetable seed oils. Just anawer one question. If a plant based diet is in anyway viable for humans, why are there no naturally occurring human vegan cultures?
I know this is an old thread and probably won’t receive a response, and that that is based purely on your own experiences. I just have to say that if you had done proper research, you would find that K2 is synthesized by your intestinal bacteria. You don’t need to supplement it. Vitamin D is produced when your skin is exposed so the sun. If you live somewhere that doesn’t get a lot of sun year round, your are advised by doctors to take a vitamin D supplement. That goes for both meat and non-meat eaters. You have used one anecdotal example for reasons for switching back to a meat eating diet. It would have been more reasonable for you to just say that you like the taste of meat and don’t care about animals, rather than argue against the benefits of a plant-based lifestyle. Meat isn’t good for our bodies. Atherosclerosis is virtually non-existent in the vegan world, whereas it is prevalent in the meat-eating community. If you require links to studies (where cholesterol is calculated at base-line, I am more than happy to provide these.
Actually only some people can synthesize the missing nutrients. Others cannot. There is wide variation in the human population. Supplements were useless but indeed my health did begin to improve almost immediately when I added animal products back to my diet.
One last Post REVISED ….>
<3 you will NO LONGER have to CONTINUE eating STICKY ANIMAL DEPOSITS, to keep the inner core holding….WAKE UP PEOPLE….
Just wanted to reply about vitamin D… I live in Phoenix Arizona, one of the sunniest places in the country and I have a vitamin D deficiency after being vegan for a year, (vegetarian most my life)… shockingly, I’ve also developed slightly elevated cholesterol on a vegan diet… I’ve been feeling weak and lethargic, I have been having heart palpitations and other strange symptoms of quivering muscles – pulsating sensations through my legs and heart, I’ve noticed that I’ve lost some muscle mass, I haven’t lost or gained weight, I’m just not as strong – my legs tremble sometimes… I grow a lot of my own fruits and veggies – I make sure I eat beans and legumes and leafy greens mist days – I take supplements religiously… But I still don’t feel right. One thing I’ve discovered is that your body doesn’t always absorb supplements very well – hence why I have a vitamin D deficiency and while I’m taking extra vitamin D… At first I felt great on s vegan diet, but these last few months I’m just not getting something I need – I finally broke down and I ate a piece of fish and a few days later I ate 4 shrimp. I thought both tasted absolutely disgusting and I had a very hard time eating them… I will say, after eating the shrimp, which I consumed in a huge salad full of fresh greens and vegetables – I had more energy than I’ve had in probably six months. I painted my house for nine hours, and performed so many chores… Probably a weeks worth in the day. Blown away… I don’t intend on eating cows and eating cheese and all that, but I think that the author is onto something… I think that a lot of people can be fine on a vegan diet- but I also think that some people don’t absorb nutrients as well as other people and may have a hard time I’m a vegan diet… One of the things I noticed on my vegan diet, because I try to avoid gluten due to back problems and inflammation – I would track all the food I ate in the day and I had a very hard time meeting minimum protein requirements, even the lower requirements promoted by forks over knives. Because I ate very little processed foods, mainly whole foods – and I didn’t eat wheat, often I didn’t make it 20 to 30 g of protein per day which is not enough for someone my size. This is eating been several times a day is well, quinoa and that’s to balls… I had to start supplementing protein powder into my smoothies – which is gross, even with the protein powder – often I would just barely meet the requirements, only if I added some tofu in the mix… It’s very hard for me to make sure I eat enough protein, it’s not as simple as just eating some beans in every meal – they have protein but not enough, I just don’t eat margin of portions of food to get what I need without supplementing.
Anyhow, I feel pretty bad about eating little ocean creatures, I just figured I needed to do something – and I’d rather start lower on the food chain. I feel a lot better, so where I’m at now is I just don’t believe in absolutism… I’d like to avoid animal products as much as absolutely possible, but if my body is insisting that I need something – I’m going to listen to it.
Thanks for your honesty
Maybe the problem was Omega 3: Omega 6 ratio? You might want to watch this youtube.com/watch?v=tP_LIY8cjf4
one of many problems
without cholesterol your body won’t absorb the vitamin D at all, and K2 isn’t readily made by bacteria in your gut, natto has it, but also phytic acid and a lot of omega-6, only animal derived foods are good sources of k2.
Yep and a whole lot of other very complex nutritional issues that vegans have whitewashed. It’s not surprising that supplements can’t fill the gap for people, because supplements don’t solve problems like this …
It’s funny I’ve noticed that you delete and refuse to reply to comments that have a different opinion then yours! There are no actual health benefits to eating meat over plants. It is the number one leading cause of cancer, diabetes and heart disease all the while destroying our planet and killing millions of animals that we mass produce to torture so we can eat our $1 burgers. Of course vegans are frustrated that the rest of the population is ignorant to the facts and try to justify it without educating themselves.
Millennia of evolutionary biology says otherwise … and so does my personal experience and the experience of many others.
“Only when I did my deeper research on deficiencies of B-12 and DHA/EPA did it make more sense. I was dealing with an entire population of people whose brains – unbeknownst to them – were not functioning properly due to malnutrition.”
Ahahahaha. I’m leaving the vegan cult myself, but haven’t fully come out the closet yet since a lot of my FB friends are vegan. I totally agree, what was huge factor in driving me away is the radical absolutism, lack of critical thinking and arbitrary morals. Worms for your vermiponic is bad simply because you’re using worms. Sustainable renewable products that would eradicate the need for Tupperware that poisons marine life, is faulty because it uses a little beeswax from humanely-kept bees. Taking puppies from their mothers to be sold to people, is ok (for the many who aren’t abolitionists). But taking unfertilized eggs from backyard hens is not ok, because “those eggs are not ours to take”. What REALLY pushed me over the edge was when I came out eating bivalves because of their lack of a central nervous system, and a vegan facebook follower (who I had to unfriend) compared it to eating a disabled human being. What’s more interesting in this situation, was the fact that she told me that veganism had nothing to do with sentience. This struck me as off, because it went against everything I knew about the movement. To make sure I wasn’t insane, I asked another group of vegans on a vegan facebook group: “why do vegans eat plants instead of animals?”, virtually the only response was that “animals feel pain, plants don’t”. When I asked if that’s the case, then shouldn’t eating bivalves should be ok? And everyone turned and said that eating a animal is never ok, regardless of their capacity to feel pain. Alrighty! Yep, totally done here.
I still think that some parts of the movement holds up, such as the clear environmental degradation of the beef industry, the health consequences of overeating meat, the misinformation about calcium and it’s relation to bone health, and the weird practice of drinking the breastmilk of farm animals. But a lot of the other parts of the movement doesn’t hold up, from arbitrary moral lines to their views on animal sentience, which is oversimplistic and monolithic. In fact, I actually talked to a few biologists who argue that fish and shellfish more than likely don’t even have the mental capacity to suffer, and the same for insects, however animal rights groups like to paint the picture that crushing a beetle is no different than killing an elephant calf’s mother in front of her, even when zoology clearly states there’s a difference.
Thank you. I do not overstate it to say that veganism came very close to destroying my life and definitely was a huge contributing factor in the illness and death of my cat Harvey (because I was not functioning at the level that would have saved his life). I feel devastated that I let myself be influenced like this. Thank you for sharing your thoughts.
Thanks for sharing.
I’ve been vegetarian for 15 years already and haven’t been experiencing any of the symptoms you have described. It sure sounds like you had the worst experience. I, on the other hand, got rid of my frequent bronchitis once and for all and rarely ever got flu anymore after going vegetarian (I was very frequently sick before that). I’m wasn’t vegan, though.
But I recently quit milk and went fully vegan after reading the evidence that milk actually causes osteoporosis and oxidative stress (d-galactose, the stuff present in mostly unfermented milk). So much for the “calcium” advertising…
We’ll see how it goes.
The funny thing is that I researched the internet for this kind of article because since I’ve joined the local vegan group on Facebook, I started growing resentful of veganism. :D Even though the vegan values are dear to me.
But due to the inability to REASON with many other vegans who see everything in black and white and attack you for expressing your THOUGHT process and can’t allow even the slightest doubt in their choices being pointed out, I started actually hating them. :) Since most of non-vegans can be equally patronizing, aggressive and illogical – and, believe me, I’ve met tons like those in my life – I totally understand that this is just common human quality. Nevertheless, this set me off to look for more balanced truth and find it independently.
Good points on veganism resembling religion, BTW. The hypocrisy is too much for me too, honestly. I care about animals. But to say that I’ll quit giving my cat raw meat because it’s “too disgusting” for me to cut it – as some vegan did currently – is to say that I’ll deny my cat proper nutrition and possibly put her into risk of getting illness from eating commercial foods for the sake of my emotional comfort. Hypocrisy, hypocrisy and lack of rationale all over the place.
I don’t agree with the point that poor nutrition somehow made many vegans rigid people because in any – ANY – cult you would find the same attitude justified by emotions. And I have met many, many different fanatics, only very few of whom were vegans. Sorry, but this is an oversimplification on your part this time. :) And to say they’re all malnourished you’d have to back your claims with testing their blood, etc. I get you are frustrated and there’s a strong wish to bash all vegetarians and vegans – but let’s stay consistently sensible and not jump sides so radically.
The point with grains – no, of course, you cannot live on grain to get all amino-acids. You have to eat legumes EVERY DAY together with grains (since you haven’t mentioned that, I wonder if you had been eating enough?). And gluten is not in every grain, either.
What vegans fail to grasp is that veganism will never win the battle. They shut their eyes closed and blissfully wait in their self-righteousness for the world to finally “wake up” and change. Meanwhile, there are millions of animals suffering and 95% of humans continue eating meat. Lab-grown meat is one of the solutions they deny and fail to support. Another one is to increase general well-being of animals that will eventually get slaughtered for their meat. But most vegans do not address the issue. Which very clearly shows that they care less about doing something to help the actual living animals in the overall situation – but more to feel less guilty about eating them. Which is again, total hypocrisy.
I guess not everyone can thrive on a vegan diet (supplemented), not even a vegetarian one, perhaps some people have some condition that requires for them to eat meat. Regarding omega-3, there has been a study (again, you can research) that those who get plant based omega-3’s eventually adapt as the body starts converting it – but it has been shown that this happens only if you don’t eat fish at all, otherwise your body doesn’t adapt fully and may lack in it. And that makes perfect sense evolutionary since not all populations relied on seafood/fish. Perhaps not everyone’s organism can actually successfully accomplish this or any other adaptation, what do we know…
Your experience may not be true to everyone but I guess it’s true to certain people. It’s better to be healthy and practice compassion within your limits than to subject yourself to misery and preach ideology that you can’t embody. So I wish you good luck with finding the best diet that fits your body type and living your full potential and radiating happiness and reason. :)
Take care~
I ate a lot of legumes. Thanks for being open minded.
I see. Thanks for the reply.
I will check out your list of recommended vitamins just to make sure I’m not deficient in any.
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Your comment has been deleted. Try again without personal attacks and projection. Thanks for playing.
Thank you for this article and the additional comments you’ve made. I’ve recently come to similar conclusions about SJWs in general and denying that we have to break a few eggs in order to have the resources we need to survive.
Fish and loaves, indeed!
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Your comment has been deleted. I love how so many vegans pretend to be loving, kind-hearted souls … yet who attack their fellow human beings with a viciousness that – honestly – I attribute to malnutrition. Go get some deep sea fish into you, it’ll cool off the anger. If you want to comment here, you will need to refrain from ad hominem attacks. Thanks.
Thank you so much for sharing your story. It reached me in time, as I almost fell into the vegan guilt trap. I’ve thrived as a vegetarian for the past 18 years, including eggs and dairy into my diet. It was difficult getting all my nutrients optimally the first couple of years until I got the hang of eating in variety. I do not believe everyone can thrive on such a diet, and I’ve never been one to force my ways on other people or make anyone feel quilty for eating meat, although I do try to encourage people to buy local organic free-range meat when possible. My vegetarianism is ethically driven, but I am aware that ethics can be biased, and I’d like just live and let live. What really bothered me about the vegan community was all the hatred and judgement, even towards vegetarians that you’d think they’d feel they had some common ground with. “Vegetarians are hypocrites and worse than meat eaters” I’d get. I only eat eggs off 2 of my friends’ backyard hens. I live in a village where this is possible, and even though the life quality of these hens is way better than in organic egg production, a lot of them told me off for eating these eggs!! I was drawn to veganism initially because I was not satisfied with cow and calf treatment in the dairy industry – even the most animal friendly ones, and I had just recently excluded dairy products from my diet. This I got praise for from the vegan community, but I was a hypoctite for still eating eggs according to some of them. I never called myself a vegan among them. I never judged anyone for their diet choices – so why am I a hypocrite? I never claimed even vegetatianism or veganism to be any kind of ethical absolute truth. For me it’s a personal thing – and I believe in balance and flexibility. I believe I needed eggs in my diet to stay healthy. Anyway, although many of the vegans I encountered seemed judgemental and harsh, the ideology seemed to harmonise with a lot of my own beliefs and philosophies. Now I’ve come to realize that is way too black/white in its approach, and it’s practically a religion. After reading your article I’ve made the decision to introduce goat milk and cheese back into my diet. And the eggs will definitely stay. Although I’m not planning on adding meat anytime soon. I’m in great health. Haven’t had a sick day in the past 7 years. Never been seriously ill etc. It seems to really work for me and I never have meat cravings. I must add though that I wasn’t much of a meat or fish eater even before I became vegetarian at the age of 19. Not everybody has the same needs. I’m just glad I didn’t end up falling for veganism. Thanks again for your honest and informative story.
OMG your symptoms from being Vegan are exactly like mine!! I even chipped a tooth recently biting into a SANDWICH! Yes a sandwich! My teeth feel weak and obviously are lacking…my bones and muscles ache, muscle spasms…and may more similar symptoms. So glad I found this. Thank you
Melanie
Yep your body is probably cannibalizing itself for nutrients :(
I feel sooooo much better not being vegan. Get out while you still have some health left.
hey.. what is your experience with meditation? for being aware, present and balanced all the time i cannot eat whatever i want. Do you think that vegetables are more efficent for this purpose than meat?. i always asked to myself why all the movements of monks, like krishna, or vippassana people insist with the vegetarian diet . makes any difference?
I was a vegetarian for 6 years (saw a video when I was 16…it was violent, graphic, the usual propaganda). I had a terrible relationship with food too. I restricted and binged a lot. On the diet, I mostly ate fats and carbs with some plant protein so I eventually gained weight. It took me years battling my body and being tired of being flabby that I decided to change. Then I started fiercely craving fish (I salivated over plain cans of tuna and sardines!). Finally gave in. It was heaven. Next was chicken. I never felt so strong. I had energy to go to the gym. Now I’ve been lifting for 4 years and acquired beautiful muscle I’ve always wanted…a vegetarian diet was shit for both energy levels and body composition. I’m now a different person and will never go back. The rise of veganism on social Media is amusing to me. Most so misguided and so angry.
Hi V,
I’m was vegetarian and then i switched to a vegan diet.
I earned a flabby in my belly over the years, and a big stomach at vegan.
I returned to a vegetarian diet, and i eat carbs and fat to, because i have in this right moment ( Brain fog, tiredness, can’t workout to without being very tired )
My vitamins are ok, and everything is ok in my blood.
What i’m eating now…
Breakfast
Soy milk + Oats + Red Fruits + WalNuts
Snack M
Yougurt + Almonds + Raisins
Lunch
Rice + Lentils + Flaxseeds + Olive Oil
Snack A
Yogurt + Cinnamon + Pumpking seeds
Dinner
Eggs + Cheese + Brocolis + Sunflower Seeds
Sometimes i eat dark chocolate to try to improve the brain fog.
Raisins improve my brain fog to.
Sometimes i drink black coffee or green tea.
But i can’t be at 100 %.
I still have brain fog, tiredness, dark spots in my eyes.
I lost my Work, my GF, because i don’t have the energy, concentration.
I’m always tired, and in this last days i’m having dizziness.
I have a good body, but in the belly section is ugly.
I’m thinking in eating meat again, to improve my system, because i’m feeling so bad, with a huge anxiety, depression and tiredness.
I’m searching others that had similar symptoms.
Can you give me a example of your day now? breakfast, lunch, dinner?
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For all your “non violence” toward animals, AliceNYC, did you know that your communication is extremely violent? I’ve noticed that about vegans … seems the problem only gets moved around …
If you’d like to comment here, I would invite you to get a copy of Marshall Rosenberg’s book, Non-Violent Communication: A Language of Life …
Then remove the projection, enemy images, diagnoses, and violent language from your comment and try again. Happy New Year.
I went vegan 2 months ago, mainly out of ethical/environmental reasons, and because of some artritis symptoms in my feet I had been struggling with. The first 1 1/2 month everything went pretty solid, till I had an allergic reaction to tofu/soy. I had an attack of severe shortness of breath, and since then I became anemic and battled adrenal fatigue. Constantly gasping for air, and falling asleep at 5 in the Morning for only 3 hours days in a row. I also noticed my blood pressure was really low on the vegan diet, despite having some salt and mustard, it didn’t feel right. I’m eating some Animal products since a few days, I still feel quite bad, hope it’ll be gone soon. I’m doing lots of intensive exercise, and frankly I’m afraid to workout, since my heart is constantly overworking with this lack of sleep and constant fatigue. One thing that really helps me is walking outside. All in all I think veganism is a simplistic solution to all the problems we face in this world, it may work for some people, but not for me and many others. I have to say my artritis in my feet went completely away on the vegan diet, but other major problems took its place. I definitely think the uptake of micronutrients on a vegan diet is not optimal, plant iron vs heme iron,…. Want to end this by saying that probably the best thing is to eat everything in balance and moderation, cliché, but there’s definitely truth to it.
Yea this is the problem when we attempt to solve problems with the ego mind, rather than solving them at a higher level of consciousness. Hope you feel better soon.
Hi Erika,
I was a vegetarian for 11 years and a vegan for 2….and yesterday I decided to introduce meat again. I developed an eating disorder and am still underweight, but I haven’t had the strength the exercise consistently/become the active person I want to be. I ate chicken last night for the first time and I slept better than I had in months! I normally wake up feeling hot w/a rapid heart rate, but not this morning! The vegetarian in me is still trying to fight my cravings and tell me i’m hurting others….but I feel my body is crying for the something more and I just have to listen to it now. I just wanted to thank you for this blog and opening up about this subject. I keep seeing all of the vegans on youtube that look so vibrant and healthy but they only show the world a sliver of their lives….anyway, thanks again :)
Thanks Becca. Yea some of the staunch “vegans” are not even vegan for real, for some they sneak the animal products when nobody is looking.
You pretty much described the conflict, and contrary to vegans’ attempt to make a “simple” solution … it’s going to take a higher order answer to solve this.
Thanks for stopping by :)
Hi Erika can’t seem to comment so Im just gonna reply.
Im just curious since you said you are eating lots of animal products, have you considered doing the ketogenic lifestyle? Just a friendly suggestion, you don’t have to if you dont intend to because I myself have had amazing results on it. I am on it since feb 2016 and my blood tests results are the best they have ever been and I presume it is getting better because I can feel myself getting fitter as days go by.
I was never vegan but I was not getting enough nutrition as every other omnivore person because I have mild endometrosis that I was on BCP and also hangnails and dry hair and skin Going on ketogenic diet healed all these problems and I no longer have painful periods and have since stopped the BCP. Oh yes I don’t take supplements at all on this lifestyle.
My prediabetic mother in law who has been advised to go low carb has been slowly introducting this diet and so far she has also reported feeling less lethargic and have lost some weight.
This keto lifestyle is every vegan’s nightmare and they have been very vocal about it. I know because I get attacked everytime someone asked about it and I answer. Most people tend to think its a fad diet and have advised me countless times it will ruin my health. But everytime i just show them my abs.
This was my post: m.reddit.com/r/keto/comments/5bn34l/pics_how_keto_made_me_healthy_and_fit_husband/
YOU CANT BE EX VEGAN! IF YOU QUIT VEGANISM ITS MEANS YOU WERE NEVER A REAL VEGAN SORRY FOR MY ENGLISH
I think the malnutrition has reached your brain..that makes no sense.
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don’t make it “about me” if you want your comments published
No true Scotsman fallacy, I see. Your statement makes veganism sound like……… a cult.
So, I was never vegan, but vegetarian for 23 years (from birth to 23 years old.) However, I started eating animals last year and the difference is amazing. I am suffering less mental problems and just feel like life looks more promising. I still have personal issues to sort through but I’m quite positive that introducing dead animals into my diet has helped with my debilitating anxieties and depression. It’s funny, because I’ve talked with vegans and vegetarians who would rather have poor health than eat an animal. There is no convincing them. I grew up in Loma Linda, California (and still live here), and the way people treat vegetarianism literally has religious roots. Some people can work the vegetarian way, like my grandma who lived to be 103, but NOT ME. Though, my grandma ate tons of animals until she was a teenager, so im sure her omnivore diet in her youth had a big influnce on her longevity. The nutrition you receive as a kid is so vital for your ENTIRE life. And there are over 7 billion people on this planet and a one size fits all diet is absolutely absurd, especially when vegans truly believe everyone can thrive on the vegan diet. All the best civilizations in history had some form of animal product.
Hello Erika
First of all, after I have read your article. I just want to say that I’m sorry for what you have went through and I also knew that you weren’t the only one who went through that experience. I’ve read couple of articles of how people who were vegans went back to become ex-vegans. I’m really glad that you have shared your experience and I’m proud of you because you spoke the truth and don’t let what other vegan’s who don’t agree with you or say something offending to you phase you for who you really are. I had no idea that during the times I went on facebook that many vegans have experienced some health problems but won’t admitted until now, but now I know and I want to say thank you.
Thanks Alan, I appreciate your support.
WOW, this blog is brutal! I just wanted to say thank you for your blog post. You posted all the symptoms i was experienced after following a vegan diet for 3.5 yrs. that resolved with EGGS and eating some meat. I now follow a paleo style diet. I don’t eat meat all the time but i believe meat is essential for most humans at least 3 times a week. Its sad that vegans views are so limited and narrow to see the truth. Keep fighting the good fight.. :D
Thanks for commenting. Yes, and I have not published half the comments. When they get overly abusive, make up lies about me, etc., they go in the spam folder. I’ve been fairly liberal about allowing dissenting opinions and some of these vegans are just … well, they are assholes. So their comments will never see the light of day. Glad you listened to your body and intuition and did what was right for your health.
Erika,
Thank you so much for writing this article. I became vegetarian (rarely ate animal products though like eggs, and milk) in August of 2015. After watching Forks over Knives, and writing a research paper on factory farms, I stopped eating meat. The past few months I have never felt worse in my life. Through the past 8 months of being a vegetarian I have gotten sick several times, probably due to a weak immune system. Recently, I have felt so weak and depressed that I knew it was something serious-but I had no idea it could be my diet. I was throughly convinced that I saving my health when I was really destroying it. Having made a second doctors appointment, actually for tomorrow, I decided to look up my symptoms and it led me to your page. I can’t thank you enough for opening my eyes, I really had no idea other vegans and vegetarians were experiencing the same things as I-depression, anxiety, weakness, dizziness, headaches. The diet may be for some, but I do agree with you that it is malnourishing so many people. Thank you for basically saving my life.
Thanks for sharing, Katie. Yep that is most people’s experience with a vegan diet. And as far as I can tell, most vegans who claim to be healthy are simply in denial. Their relentless ranting and raving here, inability to see any other viewpoint, etc., shows the cognitive decline that results from a vegan diet.
Thanks Erika!
What are your thoughts on the vegetarian diet?
What led you to choose eating meat rather than wind back the vegan-extremism to include eggs and milk, or even become pescatarian?
Cheers
Tony
How many fish “suffered” when Christ manifested them out of thin air?
Nobody is going to solve this problem with the mind that created it.
Just wondering, what do you mean the problem of suffering is one that the mind created?
As I mentioned in my other comment, I understand and respect your story, and am obviously in no place to judge being a pescatarian (I acknowledge I am a fish murder, it is who I am at the moment). But, I was curious though about the red meat – I’m not judging as we have, in the past, eaten grass fed organic beef – but, I was really surprised recently to discover how little it actually has to offer nutritionally – except the actual liver of the animal in terms of iron. I mean, I have reached much the same conclusions as you on survival – this is why I murder fish – but, I try to confine my murder to just fish. I know this is probably wrong but, my thoughts on that are that it is extremely difficult to obtain DHA and Omega 3s in sufficient quantities outside of fish, but a relatively trivial task to replace chicken/pig/cow meat. Anyway, not judging, just kind of curious if there is something about red meat that can’t be replaced.
At any rate, I was curious about your survival statement, just from a moral perspective. I would like to think I’m a deeply spiritual person (which probably makes my fish murder even more abhorrent to God, given that I do have compassion and love animals, and regard as sentient and equal so – by my mental framework I have to wake up every morning literally feeling like an actual murder – even if I didn’t kill the fish directly). But all these dietary choices often bring me back to the same question; sure, right now, with children, it might be morally OK to choose murder for their well being, because it is not an entirely selfish thing but – wouldn’t it make sense to renounce even health for ideals, and thereby prove that one is not bound by the killing mindset that is this world? I don’t know, sometimes I think…once I am done raising my kids I could theoretically “die” vegan, or live in a kind of crippled, but morally superior state.
I don’t know about this. That’s why I was curious about what you learned in your near death experience; did you have an encounter with God? What do you think, are we supposed to “graduate” by killing ourselves with veganism? I’m honest to God not being facetious…I’ve often wondered if that’s more “ideal” cosmically.
My only hesitance there is realizing how attached I still am to my one living grandparent. When she suffers I feel, to some extent, I suffer too. Even a grandparent is worth still having around, still has something to contribute. So I often wonder if this ideal-choice would still be selfish on some level as, if it results in actual death, if it’s not the same thing on some level as suicide – leaving behind grieving souls, which is also selfish, but perhaps less selfish than killing?
As you see, I’m very confused. What do you think? What’s the point of life?
These problems will not be solved with the mind that created them.
Erika, I noticed someone asked you this but didn’t see the reply.Not having a go as I am not vegan or vegetarian myself, but wouldn’t you have considered just going back to being a vegetarian?
I won’t rule it out and there’s a big BUT … vegans persuaded me there is no moral high ground in vegetarianism versus meat eating. I don’t see any moral high ground in any of the lifestyles anymore, so why would I engage in diet gymnastics? Vegans and vegetarians have not solved anything, they are only moving problems around.
Fish and loaves. I will keep repeating this until someone actually hears me. The answer to this is causelessness. That is the only answer. And until people are willing to stop depending on “physical” answers to everything … and are willing to learn how to be Jedis who can manifest out of thin air … we won’t have anything solved and I am not going out of my way to do diet gymnastics.
Thanks for your response. Yes,I have heard some vegans say that vegetarianism is no better,but I have also heard some say why not go back to being vegetarian instead of full meat eating if someone is having health problems. I can understand the latter’s point of view.
I have now gone vegetarian.I don’t eat dairy products,as much as health reasons,as even with organic,you still have the hormones,but I do eat organic eggs. The way I see it,I am not eating the animal’s body and if someone doesn’t think that is enough,that is their problem. I find many meat eaters can be just as preachy having gone vegetarian even when I don’t bring it up but have been asked when I am eating a vegetarian dish and not meat. Faults on both sides.
I do know that some – can’t say how many – vegans can be preachy,but it varies. As I am doing this as much for environmental reasons as animal ones, I would rather eat protein from eggs that are organic and come from a local farm than eat quinoa that is shipped from overseas – although a lot of fruit and veg is but can still try and buy locally – and also means the local people in these countries can’t afford it due to the demand.Although not just vegans or vegetarians that eat quinoa and is meat eaters,but if vegans are claiming the moral higher ground then it makes sense to not have this on this basis.
It does irk me though hearing meat eaters talk of vegans being hypocrites for eating meat when many animals are killed when fields are ploughed,however,there is a difference when animals are killed intentionally for meat and those that are killed as an accident. That analogy kind of reminds me of pro choice people – and I am pro choice myself in the first few months – talk of how many abortions take place each month when a woman has a period,but there is a difference between that and intentionally having an abortion, though I don’t see in the same way if it is done early on (though that is another debate).
It is not possible for everyone in the world to be vegetarian never mind vegan as there is not enough land and it would have an environmental cost to have lots of produce flown over everywhere. I think the best would be for people to cut down on meat consumption and dairy too and more support for local farms.This at least would be better for the animals,if people are going to eat meat.
Lastly,and I am not saying this with any malicious intent,but you are repeating “fishes and loaves” and saying people don’t hear you,but you never responded to someone’s question before I asked,but I think you should not let yourself get so riled by vegans attacking you and just to ignore them. ‘
The last part I was referring to TonyM’s question.
Alice, The cause of your “confusion” is very clear. The language of your post is a dead giveaway. Your repeated use of the word “murder” shows that you have fallen into the mind maze-trap of thinking that it is somehow wrong to take life to sustain life. The process of taking life to sustain life is the way our corner of the cosmos works. The “vegan philosophy” decries “violence”, while the cycles of life and nature are entirely dependent on it. But is the avoidance of “violence” what the “vegan philosophy” is all about? After being in that world I have come to understand that this is not the primary motivation. The primary motivation for adopting a long term vegan diet is the need for bodily negation and deprivation. The “vegan philosophy” is a perfect vehicle for self-hating humans to perpetually mentally, emotionally and above all physically flagellate themselves and those around them. This comes from an inner “mudra” that is ultimately anti life. This is one of the reasons why it is so difficult to reason with committed vegans. It is a disease rooted deeply in their bodies. (Another reason is brain damage and intellectual impairment induced by nutrient deficiencies)Why should they listen to any external voices when they will not even listen to the screaming of their internal voices? Eat some eggs cooked with lots of butter, every day, you will feel much better
Amen.
I think reducing suffering, of humans and non-humans, is a worthy pursuit, so long as you do not damage your own physical and mental health. The extent to which one chooses to reduce suffering will depend partly on a person’s biology. Personally, I think the lab-grown meat technology will provide a healthier route to achieve this.
First off, I’m a morally-driven ‘pesca-vegan’ (I don’t really call to that label it’s just the easiest way to describe how I eat). The current research on marine zoology, shows that there isn’t any sufficient evidence to argue that fish are sentient. Intelligent, yes. But not cognitive-emotional. They lack a cerebral cortex, amygdala, and hippocampus along with it’s ‘specie equals’ (scientists call this a homologue) which other animals, especially mammals have. Vegans hate to admit this, along with the grey area of insects, and bivalves and shellfish (who all lack brains completely), so will often misinterpret and anthropomorphize animal behavior to suit their narrative, or go with the “benefit of the doubt” argument, even though no one sees how this is self-defeating in the rising evidence to support plant intelligence.
That all aside, your health always always always comes first. If you tried veganism or vegetarianism and found that your health suffered, despite all that you do, you’re completely entitled to eat what you must to be healthy. Animals are not our equals. And this outlook is a unhealthy and stressful relationship to have with your food. I won’t say it’s the “Cycle of life” but I will say it’s your metabolic system, and how we’ve evolved to digest matter. It’s out of our hands.
Make the best decisions you can given your circumstance. If you need beef, then buy local and humanely-raised. If you eat fish, buy responsibly raised. If you don’t feel the need to, don’t buy any. Bottomline, make your moral philosophy fit around your health, not make your health fit into a a moral philosophy.
Thank you Erika for this post. Although I probably would never ever be vegan and never fully understand what it means to be one. The human race’s relationship with food is obviously alarmingly unhealthy particularly in the western world… and the extremist vibes found within the vegan community does not solve this problem but only worsens it.
I understand many if not all vegans want to eliminate animal cruelty but for many non-vegans like myself there are other issues in this world that need higher prioritising. Our physical, mental, emotional, and spiritual health is so important and if a vegan lifestyle is not helping you to achieve optimum health in these areas then do not stick to it just for the sake of pride and community.
The ideals of veganism are great on paper BUT in the real world how can we expect human beings to eliminate cruelty towards animals when humans can’t even stop harming each other?… this is my question for the vegans out there… I just feel like there is too much dreaming and not enough reality checking. until someone gives me credible reasons and non-defensive attitude then I will continue my effort in eating clean veggies, clean fruit, organic meats, gluten-free grains, rarely eating dairy but do treat myself to goats cheese here and there. This in the bigger picture helps me deal with my under active thyroid, maintain a healthy relationship with food, and train hard at the gym.
Health above any idealism, i say!
If humans want to care for other humans veganism would be a good way because The Food and Agriculture Organization of the United Nations (FAO) cited animal agriculture as the largest single sector source of water pollution, robbing the world’s population of clean water. Additionally, animal agriculture usurps almost 10 percent of the entire world’s water supply. By going vegan and therefore not supporting factory farming, you can actively help to redirect those grains and support a clean water system for humans everywhere.
I appreciate the arguments, and that’s what I thought too … but a “solution” that sacrifices the health of a large percentage of humans is not a solution.
Look higher, think bigger. Fish and loaves people, fish and loaves.
The only problem I have with this article is that you didn’t even list what you ate on your Vegan diet, how many calories you consumed, etc. ANY diet can have horrific consequences if you’re not eating right.
Different every day. No junk food. Whole foods vegan diet. And a truckload of supplements when it was not working, to try to “fix” it. It was such a complete fucking disaster there is nothing you or anyone else could have done to fix it – except to have me start eating animal products again.
When are you all going to become open to a new answer, for fuck’s sake?
Hi Erika! I can’t seem to add a new comment so I guess I’ll just “reply” to this comment since you spoke about what you were eating. I’ve decided to eat animal products again after 4 years being vegan. I just feel like I’m on auto pilot. I choose me, sorry but not sorry. I have 2 kids dependent on their mom not collapsing or blacking out while driving and they matter more than a chicken. WOW, never thought I’d say that but I already feel liberated from the vegan brainwashing I got from youtubers! I think we all know who I’m referring to…
ANYWAYS! Last week I added eggs and felt fine after, can’t get enough. Next is fish and then poultry. Okay, so here is my question: In your article you wrote that you broke veganism with canned tuna. Did you suffer any tummy upset at all from adding canned tuna out of nowhere? I mean I read it and you said the fish felt good in your body but was there even a rumble in tummy after? What about chicken? Do you believe we lose our enzymes over time to digest meat?
Now that my questions are out of the way, please allow me to say this: THANK YOU for writing this! I was tossing and turning last night when I came upon your article. I’ve been so scared to incorporate meat back not only in fear of GI troubles, but also from the “I told you so” comments I’m going to get. Now after reading your article I’m ready!
Thanks again, Erika!
I only felt better and better, hope it’s same for you
I dislike the picture that many vegans portray of veganism, with their holier-than-thou attitude and an aggressiveness that, for me at least, is perplexing, given that I connect it with nonviolence. So many people become vegans and remain vegans without really informing themselves about how to stay so. You’ve made evident that this is not your case, so please don’t feel included in this group. However, I cannot help but feeling that this post displays some traits of the narrow-mindedness that you implicitly accuse vegans of. Every body is unique and, if yours did not respond well to veganism, health comes first. Yet, extrapolating that to the whole of humanity is somewhat arrogant. You don’t need to justify yourself and you don’t need to hint that vegans are in the wrong, given that some of us have also carried out research on this issue and not only come across but actually experience completely different results. I have been a vegetarian for all of my adult life and a vegan of 10 years now (flexible, in the sense that I eath the occasional birthday cake of my non-vegan friends) and my health has improved since being a vegan, much more than when I was a vegetarian, since getting rid of cheese went hand in hand with my disappearance of asthma, for instance. My periods became regular, my energy boosted and my blood tests are always perfect. Yes, I do take vitamin B12 supplements, but that’s it.
I know that I’m just using myself as an example, but I am no exception, so please don’t make us so.
You’d have a point if I were extrapolating blindly. I’m not. I went out and researched it, listened to a lot of other people’s experiences, and discovered that … lo and behold … very few people remain vegan because they have experiences similar to mine.
Wow. Thank you for sharing this. It’s unfortunate having to read through all of the comments of the ‘compassionate’ acting in such a paradoxical nature. I’ve been vegeterian/vegan for about 3 years & have experienced many Health issues along the way. It’s unfortunate that not everyone can reap all the benefits of the vegan diet, as that is what I was hoping for all this time. All the while, I was ignoring all the red flags, in support of this constructed ideology that I wish could’ve served me better. Dealt with acne, hair loss, energy loss, anger, deficiencies, food sensitivity. Afraid of “going backwards” I kept on pushing through and trying just about every plant-based solution you could think of. This gives me reassurance that I am not alone, & that although vegan diet may serve well for some, it does not work for all. I tried & I will give myself credit for that..ironically, I am tired of trying to find the solution to what I thought was a problem solving diet.
Love & light!
Thanks yea … and the most tragic loss for me is my cat Harvey. I am very clear that my cognitive deficiency during the vegan diet led indirectly to his death … and I am still working on forgiving myself for it. I hope you find the balance that best serves you, minus the ideology. Rest assured you are not alone.
For someone who accuses others of violent language, there are quite a lot of f*** in your reply. I really don’t know why your “awakening” has to go hand in hand with so much animosity against vegans. Yours is a personal experience, I am not questioning that it can also be that of many, but please don’t make it into a universal statement, because it is simply not true. I was a vegetarian for 15 years and I’ve been a vegan now for 16 and I’m feeling better as a vegan than as a vegetarian (I attribute it to cheese). I live in a sunny country and my vitamin D defficiency went as soon as I started spending more time outside exposing my body to the sun without sun protection for 10 minutes in summer and 20 in winter. Never had iron defficiency and, no I don’t take iron supplements. The only supplements I take are B12 and a yearly course of Omega 3. Just in case you may say that mine is just anecdotal evidence, remember that it’s my own experience, just as yours is. If you have noticed similar cases to yours, so have I. Best
Well, researchers actually cite their sources whenever they publish a finding in order to contrast it with other existing sources. You’ve been a vegan for over a year, you’ve talked to and listened to other people’s experiences which may very well be the result of an unbalanced diet, but that’s beside the point. All I’m saying is that I have the opposite evidence, and I’ve also carried out research. For instance: “It is the position of the American Dietetic Association that appropriately planned vegetarian diets, including total vegetarian or vegan diets, are healthful, nutritionally adequate, and may provide health benefits in the prevention and treatment of certain diseases. Well-planned vegetarian diets are appropriate for individuals during all stages of the life cycle, including pregnancy, lactation, infancy, childhood, and adolescence, and for athletes. A vegetarian diet is defined as one that does not include meat (including fowl) or seafood, or products containing those foods. This article reviews the current data related to key nutrients for vegetarians including protein, n-3 fatty acids, iron, zinc, iodine, calcium, and vitamins D and B-12. A vegetarian diet can meet current recommendations for all of these nutrients. In some cases, supplements or fortified foods can provide useful amounts of important nutrients. An evidence- based review showed that vegetarian diets can be nutritionally adequate in pregnancy and result in positive maternal and infant health outcomes. The results of an evidence-based review showed that a vegetarian diet is associated with a lower risk of death from ischemic heart disease. Vegetarians also appear to have lower low-density lipoprotein cholesterol levels, lower blood pressure, and lower rates of hypertension and type 2 diabetes than nonvegetarians. Furthermore, vegetarians tend to have a lower body mass index and lower overall cancer rates. Features of a vegetarian diet that may reduce risk of chronic disease include lower intakes of saturated fat and cholesterol and higher intakes of fruits, vegetables, whole grains, nuts, soy products, fiber, and phytochemicals. The variability of dietary practices among vegetarians makes individual assessment of dietary adequacy essential. In addition to assessing dietary adequacy, food and nutrition professionals can also play key roles in educating vegetarians about sources of specific nutrients, food purchase and preparation, and dietary modifications to meet their needs.”
Not only was I on a “balanced” vegan diet, I was also taking supplements. I don’t cite “authority figures” because I don’t live my life that way. My health was deteriorating rapidly and no amount of adding new “vegan nutrients” was working. The biggest mistake I made was listening to “authority figures” who whitewashed this bullshit diet, and I lost a great deal because I was stupid enough to listen to them. Now I’m back to what worked for me most of my life, listening to what my intuition and my body actually are telling me. It’s called right brain living. And I’m feeling quite a lot better than I was, thanks very much. That’s all the authority I need. That vast numbers of other people had the same experience and abandoned a vegan diet is in no way surprising.
How often do you give your power away to authority figures, Margarita? You know they used to tell you the earth was flat. If you go back in history, authority figures don’t have a great track record for truth.
Ok, as far as I’m concerned, this is the end of our conversation. I won’t stand for being patronized. It so happens that I am an academic, a researcher, therefore my job is NOT to give my power away to authority figures, but to carry out research, read them, question and contrast. If I write a blog about my personal experience I don’t call that research, but just a personal blog. You’re absolutely right to listen to your body and stay healthy that way; at no point whatsoever have I intended to argue against that. All I was saying – and keep saying – all along is that your post is an excellent one on a private experience – or a collection of individual experiences – and you’re right to post it to reach people who are in the same situation as you were. But as a piece of research, I am afraid it is completely irrelevant, not to mention sensationalist. Have a good day.
It’s not a piece of research. That’s not an “economy” in which I participate. It’s an opinion piece. And in light of the fact that it now has over 900 comments – and those are the ones I published, because many were deleted because many vegans found themselves incapable of even basic decency toward other human beings – it seems to have struck a nerve.
IF you were a true researcher, you would know that no nutritionist or doctor recommends that people replace food with supplements.
A vegetarian diet is called adequate but needs supplements? Bullshit.
I needed to swallow these: zinc, selenium, b12, b6, creatine, carnitine, gaba, 5htp, d3, and some pills were so big it almost stuck in throat. Skin looked very aged and stomach disdended from large volume of potatoes every day. Now I eat fish and eggs and acne starts to heal. Next is meat without regrets. Saturated fat is good against constipation acne and significantly clears brain fog and insomnia.
Thank you for this. I was an unhealthy vegetarian who ate vegan when I could for six years and I have suffered monstrous health problems. I can only imagine how hard it is on the body to be full vegan. I could have possibly had a healthier experience as a vegetarian, but I, like many other young girls (<18), was lured into a movement thanks to the efforts of PETA. I knew nothing about nutrition and the necessity of complete proteins, etc, and my growth suffered because of it.
Ugh very sorry to hear about this, to have this happen during your growth. What a bummer. I can recommend EFT tapping as a way of releasing damage that has already been done. If only vegans were tapping, they might actually manifest a real answer to this instead of banging their heads on concrete.
There’s a lot that bothers me about vegans.
How can you think that your ideology is superior when most of your members have to supplement to maintain some level of health? An ideology that has never existed in any civilization? How arrogant do you have to be to think that you know better than thousands of past generations?
However, what makes my blood boil, is the sheer lack of compassion towards ex-vegans. How fascist do you have to be to kick people who were/are down due to health problems? It’s disgusting.
I do not claim to know how everyone should eat. However, I’ll post some guidelines.
The food industry is the major enemy and so is factory farming. This is not only related to meat. Wheat products, the addition of high fructose corn syrup, preprepared meals, problems can be found in all food groups.
What to do? Eat real food. Prepare it yourself. Stay away from soft drinks. If you eat (derived) animal products, go for bio at least, grass fed if you can find and afford it.
Erika dear, I wish you good health. If you maintain health by eating completely differently than I do, that’s fine. If you can upset some militant vegans, that would be even better.
Eat what you want and need. Just don’t eat my cat or I’ll come after you.
I’m a vegetarian since 1993, vegan since 2006. Except for a Vitamin B 12 tablet, I do not take supplements. My health has not been better since I was a teenager, I have lots of energy, am up to wait for the sun at 5 am and rarely fall asleep before midnight. I do not eat meat, including fish, or dairy. I stay away from made-to-taste-like manufactured foods most of the time. I stick primarily with oatmeal and blueberries, large salads and lots of baked potatoes and veggies – natural foods. My hair is brownish/rose gray (alpaca term) with gray around the edges – I’m 74. Lack of motivation? I’m a writer and a fiber artist – a feltmaker (rigorous exercise) using fleece from the alpacas I raise. I get exercise from feeding them and mucking out stalls and pens. I’m an active member of several organizations. I don’t have the aches and joint pains many people my age complain about, my skin isn’t dry even in an arid climate, my eyes are fine. And, no, I’m not angry. My daughter has also been vegetarian since 1993, vegan now. She’s a busy lawyer and raising two daughters. She is one of the most up beat people you could ever meet and is bringing up her children to be as fun loving and open to life as she is. For us, veganism works. I’m sorry it hasn’t for you. I wonder why. What are the variables? Ethnicity? The amount of manufactured foods one consumes? I am very curious to know why people have such diverse reactions to a vegan diet – or is something other than diet?
Probably a lot has to do with ancestry. I suspect that I have a lot of Mediterranean and other groups that ate a lot of fish and other animal products. Why does one child have blue eyes and the rest brown eyes? It’s great if it works for you. It doesn’t work for most people. So a global answer is going to require something other than imposing it on those of us for whom it didn’t work.
My ancestry is Northern European – English, Scottish and German. However, my husband’s family is Jewish from Russia, so half my daughter’s genes come from there. Anyway, as I said, eating without meat or dairy works well for the two of us. However, going meatless is the last thing my husband would ever do. Who knows if he would do well on eating vegan. He certainly won’t try it and eating the way he does works for him. I think he eats all the animals I don’t!
Well hopefully synthetic lab grown meat becomes viable on a commercial scale, because for people incapable of a vegetarian or vegan diet meat is going to become so expensive they won’t be able to afford it. You can already see this beginning to happen the price of meat has been steadily going up now for a long time. And then we have the issues associated with climate change and the acidification of the ocean which means that most likely the fish population available is going to down a lot as well. That’s mainly down to climate change. We simply are not going to have the resources including water to spend on raising animals. I personally am a vegetarian for ethical reasons, but I used to eat a lot of meat. The truth is our current meat heavy diet is simply not sustainable in anyway shape.
See? This is what I mean. “It doesn’t work for most people”. This is the sort of generalisations that I must confess deeply annoy me, very much as the generalisations you must have suffered coming from vegans. Ancestry has absolutely nothing to do with it. I am Mediterranean.
It’s a logical fallacy to think that because the diet works for you, it works for everyone else who has Mediterranean ancestry. I’ve also seen a great many vegans claim it was working for them when it very clearly was not – either clear from their behavior or their photographs.
Of course that would be a logical fallacy, only that this is not what I’m saying. I am not saying that a vegan diet works for everyone else with a Mediterranean ancesty, but replying in the negative to your hypothesis that it is YOUR Mediterranean ancestry and the fish and animal product diet that may be the reason for your not thriving on a vegan diet, by showin that, if that were the case, I would not be thriving either. Actually, you would be the one incurring in a logical fallacy.
I wonder if you’re convincing anyone with these arguments?
It’s not my point, so I don’t really care if I’m convincing anyone with these arguments. The defensive – and at times childish – tone of your replies has very little to do with reasonal argumentation. I honoured this reply with another one but, as I said in the post above, this is the end of the conversation for me. I never intented to question anyone’s life choices, just point at some inaccuracies in how you presented your information. You may want to ask yourself why you see hostility where there was none. Have a great life.
There is a fairly easy answer to this “question” (which honestly I think is just polite chastising in the guise of a question). Not everyone reacts the same way, because everyone’s body is different. It’s the same reason why medications will work for some but not others. Why do some men go bald and others don’t? Why do people have different blood types? Humanity has thrived on a diet that includes meat for over 2.5 million years. Our body is adapted to using nutrients found in meat. Applying a moral evil to the act of eating meat is purely subjective. Nature encouraged a food chain that involves life feeding on life. Applying a moral wrong or right to something nature not only allowed and encouraged is purely a matter of opinion. If you want to be vegan fine. All of the vegans on here chastising this woman for not remaining a part of the very small percentage of people who choose to be vegan, is only proving her point about the hostile and cult-like mentality of vegans. Why do you even care if she stays vegan or not? It is absolutely non of your business or right to tell her what she should be eating. Her body has been telling her that veganism is wrong for her body. Leave it at that and move on. Harassing her is just a reminder of why vegans are so universally disliked.
Why do we care? Seriously…We care about saving the Earth and ending animal cruelty. Your mind/thoughts wouldn’t change if you next on the slaughter floor ready to be stabbed, burned and possibly drowned all while being held in place unable to resist or move? If you say no, I know you are lying. You and our generation will have to be the ones to tell our kids and grand kids why the world’s rainforests are gone, why the oceans/coral reefs are destroyed and why every single animal is extinct except for the cow and chicken! I’m sorry, but the Earth is very quickly dying and animal agriculture is the leading cause behind it. Unless you have a better plan, like reducing our 7.5 billion population, then there really is not another solution. I understand and realize that everybody wants to live a fun life and exploit the Earth, but what will you do when Earth is no more. Little air to breathe, little to eat, little resources. Not trying to be harsh, but it is what it is and we need to wake up now before it’s too late.
I do have a better plan, and if you read my response to prior comments, you would understand it already.
Liar. You probably have health problems and your brain tries to make you eat meat but your ego denies it otherwise you wouldnt be here.
Vegan “I feel sick lets see if I can find similar experiences on internet . Oh this lady has also problems. Blasphemy. Veg is god veg is best (insert brain fog)”
Erika, your snappy comebacks to the whacked vegans have absolutely delighted me!
I am ex-vegan too. What a pile of deprivation and starvation that diet was. I attempted it twice, two years for each stint, in my 20s and in my 40s. Each time, same tired, weak, thin, cold, bloated, gassy, depressed, tooth decaying, miserable, eating disordered results. It appealed to the eating disordered part of me, as well as the part of me who thought I was doing the Earth a favor, not to mention the part of me that got off on pain and suffering (my pain and heavily dwelling on the pain of others). I don’t believe anyone who tells me I wasn’t doing the plants-based diet right, because nobody could tell me how to do it right in a way that ever worked. I ate wild greens, took supplements, a wide variety of nuts, seeds, seaweeds, veggies, fruits, etc., and over time, could handle the grains and the fiber less and less. There is no “right” way for everyone because we are all so different.
There’s nothing like satisfying a craving for real protein (don’t kid me about those indigestible plant protein powders) and pastured red meat after one has been starving and denying oneself over it. Those damned persistent and useless sugar cravings vanished. And the relief to finally feel better once the deficiencies subside, and then strength, color, and mental focus, and stable emotions returned.
Yep yep and yep, thanks for being a voice of reason in all this :)
Hi Erika,
Thank you for sharing your experiences. Have you written (or perhaps you might decide to?) a blog on how to deal with an angry militant vegan in the family? My daughter became vegan 6 months ago after 6 months as a veggie and I have been extremely supportive and learned how to make her nice food (although I would rather she had stayed vegetarian!) and shown an interest in her opinions. But now she has become completely militant and says she can’t understand how the people she loves can condone such cruelty in eating meat. And I get what she’s saying…not that I agree but I understand. It’s come to the point where calm is only restored when she goes back uni, especially since she started bullying her sister for being omnivore. Family mealtimes can be tense and it takes all of the enjoyment out of food, food is extremely important to our family and it’s how we show our love to each other. We all love her so so dearly but I am so worried that she is moving deeper and deeper into a world of hate and anger but truly believing that it’s love and compassion. I’m not looking to convert her back to meat eating at all, I respect and even admire her choice but I’m scared that it is already driving a wedge between her and everyone who loves her. HELP!!!!! :)
Liz,
First off: thank you! I am 19 and when I stopped eating animal products in high school, I could tell it put a strain on family mealtimes. I so appreciated my mom when she would cook special food for me. So thank you for being such a caring and loving mother. I started eating animal products again a few weeks ago and I feel GREAT. I too, thought that veganism was this end-all answer to health and cruelty and I understand now that it created a disconnect between me and the people I loved. I would suggest to remain supportive with your daughter but invite conversation about her lifestyle/beliefs. If her eating habits worry you: suggest a check up at the doctor. Talk to a nutritionist.
It’s good to know what you’re putting in your body, but it is not HEALTHY to be obsessed with it.
I had an older sister who was always changing her diet and claiming it was the superior way to live, making me and my younger siblings very uncomfortable at meal times. We worried about her constant need to catalog calories in and out. Open dialogue is very important when it comes to food because we’ve made it both a taboo and an obsession in our lives. I tried to be vegan because I thought it would help me lose weight and stop my skin from breaking out, and it seemed like a moral bonus. I’m still overweight, my skin hasn’t completely cleared (I was veg for more than a year, vegan for 7 months) and as far as I know, I haven’t saved any animals from slaughter.
Erika, thanks for writing this article, it gave me some peace.
Hope all is well,
Hannah
Thank you Han, it’s kind of you to reply and your suggestions are helpful :)
I agree, anything that becomes an obsession is not good for us. I admire you for having tried vegetarianism/veganism and I admire you also for deciding that, after giving it a good go it’s not for you. You clearly are using your own mind to work out what’s right for you and you’ve gone with it. Glad you’re feeling great! Liz
Wow you sure are getting a lot of shit for posting your opinion on this topic… I found this blog because I saw somebody on youtube eating like 10 bananas for breakfast and a bunch of other “healthy” stuff for lunch and dinner… and I couldn’t help but wonder how one can survive on a diet like that… so much sugar, so many carbs.. I almost need to take a nap due to carb-overload just from watching 10 seconds of that video… wow..
Anyway, just wanted to let you know that you’re totally doing the right thing, and that you’re right in your assessment of the craziness and general toxicity of that community.
P.s.
If you aren’t already eating salmon on a regular basis, I highly recommend it. It’s one of my own personal “musts” when it comes to eating a healthy, balanced diet. :)
Hi Aryn,
Thanks. I’m eating a very diverse diet now. Yes the crazy banana people were one of the last straws for me with veganism. Absolutely irresponsible, ridiculous baloney they are passing off on a shockingly large number of very gullible people.
Cheers,
Erika
Hey Aryn, I’m not claiming any full knowledge of nutrition but, I just wanted to put a caution the salmon; we eat this too – we attempt to get wild-caught salmon – but, I read that at restaurants like 50% of what is advertised as wild-caught is actually farmed, and 20% in stores. The problem with the farmed being that supposedly they feed the fish soy pellets, chicken excrement, and some of them have been tainted with pcbs and agent orange. The lice is also a problem. I personally don’t know – we continue to attempt to eat wild caught salmon and sardines. But I always worry, because of ocean borne pollutants. I just wanted to put this out there in case you didn’t know about what’s going on in the farmed salmon industry – I really don’t know why they can’t do better on this note..how hard can it be to just feed the fish better food?
I myself have not been been vegan for that long however I know individuals that have been following a vegan diet for 17years and are the healthiest people I have ever encountered. A lot of this article seems to be misinformed and based upon one individuals experience. All the essential and necessary vitamins, nutrients and fats for human development are available to us on an all plant based diet. I have no idea what you were eating and therefore cannot comment on your diet but a vegan diet is not necessarily a healthy diet, however, a plant based diet is.
I embarked upon veganism due to ethical reason, I do not believe my pallet pleasure is more entitled to being satisfied over the life of any living being. I have never judged another for eating meet as I realised it was not a choice they were making but a habit they were continuing. What I did judge was the defence of slaughtering and butchering living beings for taste, it is not right and we are not barbarians, we are intelligent, conscious beings. We have the tools and knowledge to rise above the age of murder.
Now the next leg of my journey was to ensure I remained healthy, having survived a tremendous car accident at the end of 2014 I wanted to ensure I wasn’t putting myself at risk while I was was taking steps towards a cruelty free existence within a year of recovery. I had been been (like many others) indoctrinated to believe my body requires animal protein and all the other ‘essentials’ we receive when eating animal products.
I have since discovered all the ‘essentials’ we receive form animals are filtered essentials. Animal products only contain these ‘essentials’ due to what they eat! So if we adopt a plant based diet we are ourselves will consume all the essential requirement we need, and it wont be filtered through the intestine of another creature.
I go to the gym 4-6 times a week and have an insatiable appetite, I only eat raw food for the first half of my days and I practise Intermittent fasting for the optimum health benefits. The entire approach of this post is not only condescending but rather antagonising to followers of a vegan diet.
Your experience is your experience but a lot of what you have written sounds like mass propagnda and is delusional. Human are not carnivores, we are herbivores and conscious beings, if only we choose to be. It sounds as though you are judging your previous vegan self, who you did not like very much and you think the reason why you behaved in which ever manner you did is due to your diet. Now depending on what you were eating maybe so, but that is not possible form an all plant diet. Nobody ever has or will die from a health related issue on a plant based diet.
You should watch, Forks over knifes and The Leading causes of death, both links are below. I hope you enjoy and learn some actual facts that are not coming from a delusional point of profit.
cosmosdocumentaries3.blogspot.co.uk/2013/07/forks-over-knives-documentary-film.html
youtube.com/watch?v=30gEiweaAVQ
These articles are neither uninformed nor based on one person’s experience. I have cited numerous articles and based my articles on extensive research I did after having such a horrific experience on a vegan diet. I never cease to be amazed how unable vegans are to assimilate evidence that goes against their rigid beliefs. That, again, is why the problem is not getting solved and will never be solved with veganism.
Scrap the word ‘Vegan’ a whole food plant based diet is the healthiest diet by far with proven affects of reversing cancer. Every single necessary nutrient or substance for wellbeing can be sourced through a whole food plant based diet. It seems you have a rigid belief and no matter the evidence supplied you just wont bear the options. Watch the documentaries I sent you and you will see.
Ps. It biased on your journey, your experience. You fail to mention any other positive successful vegan stories. They are positive because parents have raised there child on a whole food plant based diet and the kids are so healthy.It is extreemly misinformed and condescending. You should branch your research into positive vegan stories to see that with extensive knowledge comes extensive vitality.
Peace and Love
Actually no, I was very open to the “plant based whole food diet” until it destroyed my health. Then I did more research and discovered it had also destroyed many other people’s health. The failure is in your reading comprehension. I have stated repeatedly that this diet works for some people, and is disastrous for many others. The success stories do not prove anything about the people whose genetics cannot support the diet. And until vegans are willing to listen – some do, let’s be clear, there are some vegans who actually listen and keep an open mind. Until vegans as a group start listening and being open to OTHER ways of solving this problem (which is why you are here on this website where the answer is right in front of your face) … it won’t get solved. And no, I will not embark on solving it by myself. Huge project. I’ll wait until you folks have banged your head on the wall enough to start realizing why you’re on THIS website where the answer is.
Part of the problem is I think you all are going to need to go back to an omnivore diet in order to solve this. Trying to talk to most vegans is like talking to a brick wall. The mental comprehension is just not there. (There are exceptions, they are few.) We need to get you all properly nourished, and then properly trained in how to solve problems on a higher level of consciousness. Then we can solve this. Nobody is going to solve anything when their brain is malnourished. I should know, I experienced it for myself.
Hi James,
I’m not a vegan, and I agree with you that I am murdering fish in order to survive, and that it’s not ideal. However, I wanted to get your take on this website: naturalhygienesociety.org/diet3.html I’m not affiliated with it but, why do you think people on these diets had children that experienced adverse health consequences? It’s not a facetious statement, just curious if your hypothesis is that the website is lying (possible) or how you’d approach it. It’s pretty awesome you managed veganism and are still alive! (Not being facetious -I’m too scared to do it but, I respect it).
This article is so irresponsible.
The vegan projection fest continues … luring people into ruining their health with a biologically inappropriate diet is not irresponsible? Just yesterday as I looked at all the white hair on my head that proliferated during 15 months of veganism, I had to ask myself … how could I be so stupid to listen to these people?
This isn’t just a human health issue. Scientists are working on meats grown from stem cells to enable people to eat from a cruelty-free source, but it’s not accessible yet and I know I speak for an increasing number of people when I say I’m more than happy to wait.
The health issue is one thing. The benefits of eating solely plants hugely outweigh negative experiences, undeniably.
Secondly, there is animal welfare which requires no further elaboration after a brief investigation. We have no right to indiscriminately slaughter certain species while pushing others to the brink of extinction and ultimately ruin entire ecosystems. Who is further along the domino effect of these collapses? You and your health.
Thirdly, there is the much wider social impact of placing a monetary value on the life and body of a sentient being. If we say it’s acceptable to imprison, enslave, torture and brutally kill certain species, it’s not that much of a stretch to rationalise discrimination against different types of people. Great scholars and thinkers throughout history have warned us and now we’ve reached a crisis point where action has to be implemented immediately by anyone with the freedom of choice and knowledge to do so.
Removing animal products from one’s diet costs nothing, kills nobody and has the potential to positively impact every living thing. So you will to excuse people for finding articles such as yours, which flagrantly leave out the huge and far more pressing existential reasons that people are choosing to leave animal products out of their diets.
You just keep on telling yourself that … kinda like arguing that Communism “worked” … good luck.
…to be ill-conceived and reprehensible. You’ve focused on an incredibly narrow and (in my opinion) selfish aspect. White hairs?????? Gosh, how awful for you.
Right … classic vegan perspective of zero compassion for human beings and zero awareness of human health. You think white hairs are a cosmetic issue, my friend? No, white hairs are indicative that things have gone very awry at the level of basic health. You vegans are just a bunch of assholes. You go around judging everyone as “selfish” for wanting to have good health. Meanwhile, you fucking hypocrites would never demand that a lion sacrifice its health in order to be vegan.
The utter ridiculousness of the comments vegans have posted here show exactly why veganism has failed and will always fail to solve anything.
Umm let’s see Lauren, you’re “not a vegan” yet you’re criticizing someone who has made the choice also not to be a vegan.
I’m sorry but you’ve been blocked from commenting further on this site for reasons of absolute stupidity and hypocrisy. I wasted enough hours of my life in “no win” conversations with vegan hypocrites while I was vegan. It was vegans themselves who became one of the biggest cracks in the vegan foundation. Because as a group, they demonstrated themselves over and over again incapable of rational thinking. (Now, yes there are definitely exceptions to that rule, and you are not one of them.)
So Ms. “Not A Vegan” Vegan Classic Orwellian Doublethink Bullshit, goodbye.
At one point, my cat was dying and you told me all I had to do was tap. Tapping would fix my cat–although doing my own investigative work, I discovered what I felt certain of when you suggested it: you can’t fix a cat, kill a dictator, or rearrange your furniture by tapping. You CAN change yourself, but tapping is not meant to change someone else. So, I’m wondering when you started feeling sick from the vegan diet if you tried tapping.
Tapping absolutely changes someone else. If need be, I will also use other means to assist. April 1 was my cats’ birthday and neither one of them would be here if it weren’t for tapping.
As I have expressed about five hundred times on these comments, tapping is probably the only hope for vegans. However, you need to understand the magnitude of the project. I have other priorities right now and I will not undertake that project without massive support.
I personally find this article extremely responsible for it stops people from going on this harmfull diet. To the author-find and read the book by Terry Wahls M.D. “The Wahls Protocol.” It goes deep into cell structure. Btw, after reading the book you will discover why even some animals, like cows, should not be eating grains either.
Cows are not vegan anyway. Their natural diet includes insects worms, etc.
Cows are herbivores, lol. Also, when done correctly a plant based diet is proven by many studies to be beneficial to human health. Read the China study. There are many studies which prove the negative impacts on health related to the consumption of animal products. Rather than throwing ethics out the window immediately, maybe you should’ve just looked into your diet from a vegan perspective to see what you were lacking. Just because you may have been lacking certain nutrients doesn’t mean that you needed to consume cancer-causing products to get those nutrients. Where do the animals you eat get their nutrients? Plants.
Cows are not vegan, on their natural diet. Like most supposedly “vegan” animals, they eat small critters like insects and worms. Again, vegans are going to have to go way beyond the superficial here if they want the problem solved. Until then, most of us will be tuning out the self-righteous baloney indefinitely.
I think Erika raises some good and important points in this article, points that are absolutely worth thinking about, whether you ultimately agree with them or not. It certainly got me thinking about my vegan diet. That said, I think a lot of Erika’s responses have been disrespectful, condescending, arrogant and simplistic. While lots of people have been leaving comments with a similar tone, two wrongs don’t make a right.
“You just keep on telling yourself that … kinda like arguing that Communism “worked” … good luck.” It seems like you’re pretty extreme and addicted to being right, whatever your current philosophy is.
I think Lauren hit the nail on the head.
“Secondly, there is animal welfare which requires no further elaboration after a brief investigation. We have no right to indiscriminately slaughter certain species while pushing others to the brink of extinction and ultimately ruin entire ecosystems. Who is further along the domino effect of these collapses? You and your health. There is the much wider social impact of placing a monetary value on the life and body of a sentient being. If we say it’s acceptable to imprison, enslave, torture and brutally kill certain species, it’s not that much of a stretch to rationalize discrimination against different types of people. Great scholars and thinkers throughout history have warned us and now we’ve reached a crisis point where action has to be implemented immediately by anyone with the freedom of choice and knowledge to do so.”
Cruelty and torture of living creatures will always be wrong.
“You vegans are just a bunch of assholes. You go around judging everyone as “selfish” for wanting to have good health. Meanwhile, you fucking hypocrites would never demand that a lion sacrifice its health in order to be vegan.”
Angry much, Erika?
Yes, I was angry the entire time I was vegan, and I was still angry when I wrote this article. I was angry with myself too, for “falling” for the idea that a diet was going to solve anything.
We would all probably make more progress toward mutual understanding if we stop attacking each other and start having empathy for the heartbreaking inner conflict this situation presents to humanity. Kill or be killed is not ever going to be a happy position, yet that is the status for the vast majority of humans.
As I’ve said many, many times recently, this problem will not be solved with a diet. This problem will not be solved with the mind that created it.
Fish and loaves. As my beloved cat Harvey passed, I have no choice now but to work on resurrection. And that is where the answer is – causelessness. As long as we all consent to live in a world of physical “cause and effect” as dictated by the ego, it matters little if you are vegan. You are still complicit in “harming” life on this planet. So that is never, ever going to be a satisfying answer.
So I invite everyone who cares about these issues to … learn some new skills.
“There is more intelligence in your body than in your best wisdom”. – Nietzsche
Great post, Erika.
Great quote, Alina. Wow that would apply to so many issues, when we learn how to tune in, right? Amazing what we can learn that society ain’t teaching. I was just telling someone on Facebook how I stopped wearing bras some time ago. Now, when I put one on, I find it excruciating uncomfortable. Truth is, it always was horribly uncomfortable. But we learn in our society how to override our intuition and our feelings to “fit in.”
I’m a vegan but I applaud your decision. Do what is right for your body. Don’t let anyone tear you down. As a vegan I am deeply embarrassed by the (seemingly large majority) of intolerant and self-righteous vegans out there. It almost makes me ashamed and I cringe every time I read an ego-filled rant.
To every militant vegan out there: you’re repelling more people than you think. And THAT’S coming from an actual vegan.
Thanks for writing honey!
Thank you, I appreciate your compassion and levelheadedness. I’m embarrassed to say that I acted the same way as a vegan. The diet really affected me emotionally. I feel much more balanced as an omnivore. I still have empathy for the very good reasons behind the vegan initiative. I just don’t see how this diet is going to get the problem solved, in light of so many people like me who sincerely tried and could not make it work.
Hi Erika sorry for such a late reply, just want to say well done in trying a vegan diet, i am a farm boy from rural NZ and that you are quite correct that the vegan diet doesn’t suit everyone. It is actually quite crazy how some are rather surprised by this!? Science and evolution has proven time and time again that the nutrients we need are derived from animal and plant products.
Wow! I can’t believe how big this vegan movement is getting.. I just ate my first organic steak last night for the first time in a year in a half and it was wonderful! Anyways, I’m someone that has done a lot of research on healthy eating for the last 10 years of my life and I decided to become vegetarian a year and half ago believing it was the moral thing to do and I thought I would lose weight and feel great, well I never felt really awful and did lose a few pounds but I still didn’t feel like I thought, so I became vegan thinking that would help, well after being a vegan for 5 months I actually gained weight, I quit eating wheat and I’ve always ate pretty healthy, mostly organic, and have supplemented with good sourced vitamins. Well after going vegan for a while I still didn’t feel my best and my cravings for sugar never seemed to subside, so I went back to vegetarian because I did feel better eating eggs and butter, giving me back some animal protein, well here I was again exercising, eating healthy and my weight was staying same and I wasn’t feeling like all the other so called vegans. What made me change my mind and start eating meat again was actually me researching a high blood pressure diet for my dad and I came across dr mercolas website which I actually have always used for my research and info, knowing that he is an actual health practitioner and he believes in curing every disease with a healthy diet and exercise, no pills, no vaccines, no bullshit.. Anyways after looking into the high blood pressure diet, he mentions animal protein, so on his page I search vegan, which comes up with several articles.. Which all indicate that most people can not be healthy vegans, only 1/3 of the world.. And he definitely is against factory farming, that you should only get organic, humane, grass feed beef, raw milk and dairy because of all the toxins of course in factory farming meat which of course I agree.. There is an article that’s called “why being vegan won’t save the animals and the world, if we don’t support our local farmers who have worked so hard to give us healthy protein, humane practices etc, then they will eventually have to give up and factory farming will have to continue, not until we give our business to the “good guys” will we change the impact on our planet. I have an Instagram page with a lot of vegetarian/vegans and I see post all the time that I could never post, I would never be judge mental like they have been, and it almost does seem to me that it’s almost a government conspiracy too get people against eachother just like with religion and politics, as long as we aren’t standing together, evil prevails.. I seen a post that said you can in no way be spiritual or compassionate if you eat meat, that saddened me that people have got to this point, it goes back to close minded religious groups.. Anyways I’m glad you made this blog and I’m hoping in some way I can also help people see that being vegan isn’t for everyone.. And oh also I read that you never here of vegans living over a hundred years old.. #facts
There is no moral mandate to veganism. Even plants have consciousness and realize that you are going to kill them. amazon.com/Secret-Plants-Peter-Tompkins-Christopher/dp/B006L7S55S/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1451769621&sr=1-2&keywords=the+secret+life+of+plants+peter+tompkins
Isn’t this the peak of horribleness? A person so much wants to behave in a moral fashion…and yet…everywhere causes suffering. Surely there must be an escape?
I am not vegan but, I hear the argument against this logic goes that there is less plant murder without the intermediary of farmed animals which must be sustained on more plants. Oddly, this would also mean those animals would never get life at all, but, apparently their lives are incredibly crappy in factory farming. I always wonder if the salmon’s life is also incredibly crappy.
This is why you are never going to solve these problems with the mind that created them.
Vegan is an unhealthy and unnatural diet for humans.
womenshealthmag.com/food/side-effects-of-vegetarianism
foxnews.com/story/2008/09/15/vegetable-only-diet-ups-risk-for-brain-shrinkage.html
berkeley.edu/news/media/releases/99legacy/6-14-1999a.html
naturalhygienesociety.org/diet-veganbaby.html
Thank you for your insights. I too am an ex vegan. For 5 years I followed the creed. Right up until my body began to literally shut down. I remember very well the food sensitivities (still can’t do wheat) and especially the compromised immune system (among a host of other problems). Don’t mind the haters, sooner or later they will have their “come to Jesus” moment. Only then will the fog lift.
Many thanks, Erika, for your sensitive article about the whole vegan “hollier-than-thou” bullcrap! I’ve tried to go vegan just once…and in a few days, I became completely SICK, feeling completely miserable, for not being able to enjoy all the good, healthy animal food I enjoyed!…After just one week, I stopped that madness once and for all! The vast majority of vegans are incredibly INTOLERANT, HATE-FILLED PEOPLE, who have been known to physically attack anyone publicly denouncing their pseudo-ethical, pseudo-scientific hog-wash! If ever a vegan movement came to power in this country, they would most likely resort to violence, in order to force other people to renounce any animal-based food. Vegans are really “diet Nazis” at heart, and elitist as hell! Vegans represent barely 3 percent of the global population… and that is good so! We do not need more intolerant, totalitarian minded “diet fascists” anymore than we need any other extremists of any kind.
I feal I am doing my part. Most of the meat I have been eating the last 5 months is from wild game I hunted myself. I really enjoy my deer, rabbits, squirrels and fish. It saves me a ton of money, doesn’t make some big company rich, more humane. also I get out and enjoy nature, and dispite what non hunters/non meat eaters think I don’t blast away at everything that moves for some trophy, I do have a heart. I also feel more spiritual, as I always silently think the animal for providing me with nourishment.
Also I am planning on planting my first garden this coming year
I know most of you will think I am strange/odd, I might be, but I am fine with it :)
Hi Erika,
Good for you for listening to your body’s needs! I also share some of the views you have on veganism. When I first began eliminating animal products after reading a lot about nutrition and whole foods plant based diets and holistic nutrition (I stopped eating pork first, then red meat, then cheese, then chicken, then milk and ice cream, then eggs, then yogurt and butter, and lastly fish) over the span of 3-5 months from August 2014 to January 2015, I initially felt a lot better: I had more energy, I didn’t have random episodes of diarrhea or constipation anymore, and even when I’d try re-adding things like yogurt or ice cream or eggs back into my diet after not having ate it for a while during the transition, I felt gross both mentally and physically (upset stomach, indigestion, sluggish). I loved eating high carb vegan, especially eating a diet based on lots of fruits and veggies. I had been gluten free for a year or two before eliminating animal products so my diet was now super restrictive (I didn’t mind though). But then I started to notice that I too began to develop more food intolerances/sensitivities! I was having bad and sometimes painful digestive issues from foods that I never had problems with before becoming “vegan”. I was cutting out more foods, and even eating things lightly sautéed or fried in oil (avocado/grape seed/coconut) like pancakes, stir-fry, vegetables, were causing really bad IBS symptoms and really affecting my self-esteem (I’d obsess and stress over my 5-month pregnant bloated stomach and become really depressed when my pants wouldn’t fit for days to WEEKS at a time)! So after months of eating a really restrictive diet and developing all these problems, I looked into vegans introducing animal products back into their diets. I tossed and turned with the idea of eating animal products again (I don’t think I’ll ever be able to eat anything other than fish, still) because I felt like I was betraying the vegan community and myself. But then I was also about to travel for a month and a half to Spain and Portugal (among other destinations) where they’re known for meat and seafood. I didn’t want to deprive myself or be a burden to my traveling companions (though my best friend and sister wouldn’t have minded), and I also didn’t want to live with the thought of having gone to somewhere like Portugal with fresh seafood and stay at our hostel eating rice and potatoes (what if I never get a chance to go back to Portugal? What if I die tomorrow and look back on my life and think, wow, I went traveling and didn’t get to experience the country/city/culture it at its full potential because of my own pride and ego). So I told my sister and mom (super supportive throughout my elimination of wheat and gluten years back as well as my recent elimination of animal products–actually, my plant based diet actually helped my mom and i become more creative in the kitchen and actually helped her make healthier and more plant based choices even to this day!) that I was thinking of introducing fish back into my diet because of our upcoming trip and being all YOLO. I read more ex-vegan transition store and went to Whole Foods a couple of days late to pick up “ethical” fish: cod and salmon (cod because it would be light enough for my first “meat” in 6 months, and salmon because salmon was always my favourite fish as a meat eater). I was nervous and worried about how my body would react! Would I be able to digest it okay? Would I feel sluggish and nauseous after? I baked it and chewed it super well to make sure it could be easily digested. I was expecting for something to go wrong and for my body to reject it but I felt really good. It’s weird to associate these feelings with eating meat (fish), but my mind felt calm. Anyway, that definitely helped free myself from the sense of entitlement and superiority (from brainwashing) that often comes with veganism. I was able to travel with less stress and more options (I still chose vegan options over fish but when you’re in Portugal, you gotta eat the sardines and salt cod!!). I’ll still choose vegan options over fish and will only eat fish once every couple of months.
I think that we have to be honest with ourselves and listen to our bodies. Even when I stopped eating animal products, I never once looked down on my meat-eating friends or relatives. I never tried to convert them into veganism. Sure, I’d share my knowledge and benefits of a vegan diet, but I never judged them for the way they chose to eat. My sister has always eaten meat and her choice to eat meat doesn’t bother me. Of course I’d like her to eat less meat (and she has since my adopting a mostly vegan diet–same goes for my mom and the best friend we traveled with), but I’m not going to trash talk her choice if that’s what makes her happy. It’s none of my business, just like how vegans hate when meat eaters lecture them!
I think that ultimately, life’s too short to stress over what you eat. Just make conscious decisions! One diet might work for one person but it’s not the template for every single person. That’s why raw diets work for some people while starch based vegan diets work for others (same can be said for high protein or paleo diets). Experimenting and finding a balance is key. And I think it’s also important not to label yourself as anything. I never called myself vegan (when someone would ask, id say that I don’t eat animal products) because I feel like if you label yourself, you feel like you have to be a certain way and believe in certain things even if you’re unsure (not being honest with yourself). And I also think that ethnicity has a lot to do with how well you can tolerate/adapt to a certain diet. I’m Asian and I find that Chinese medicine really relates to the way my body works so when I first tried a high fruit raw diet for a few days, it completely wrecked my digestion and energy. Something that makes one person thrive can really bring down another person!
Oops, didn’t mean to write a novel of a comment, but thanks for reading, and thanks for being real!
Hi Alice,
Thanks for sharing your experiences. I’m happy to report that food sensitivity seems to have gone by the wayside since I started eating meat fish eggs and dairy again.
Now, I still aspire to have this problem solved but not at the level of consciousness of veganism, which is never going to solve anything.
If Jesus could manifest fish and loaves “out of thin air,” then the fish were not “killed” for that miracle. Likewise, I don’t see any reason we couldn’t do the same with our whole food supply. And of course from there, comes the question, do we need to eat at all?
In the meantime, I have definitely eliminated veganism as an answer to anything.
Happy holidays and thanks for the comment.
Hey Erika,
Not to stir the hornet’s nest or share unconstructive thoughts but – like a diseased person who just has to whine to someone…I had to share what I found on one vegan website about Jesus: namely, that the church over-wrote Jesus’ fish and bread story with fish when it was actually grapes; this apparently was “channeled” information to some vegans in the 18th century or something, but it seemed to be in line with the Gnostic version of things. Anyway, you can just imagine what such a statement would do for a pescatarian. But yeah, you imagine it, it’s out there. All kinds of ways to feel like the worst thing on the planet.
If the fish were manifested out of thin air, then no fish were killed. So why does the story need to be rewritten?
Rather, the story is a powerful message about where we need to be moving … toward manifestation through the power of the mind.
Which is the only way these problems get solved. Which is what I’ve been saying here for … oh … over a year.
And you are NOT an “ex-vegan” – there is no such thing. You were “plant based” for you own selfish reasons. If you could ever again dine on the dead bodies and secretions of sentient animals, then you were never vegan to begin with. Veganism means you see eating animals the same way as you see cannibalism, unthinkable.
This is exactly why vegans get a bad rep. If eating meat is “evil”, why did nature allow for and encourage the existence of purely carnivorous animals? You’re belief that eating meat is purely subjective. Clearly as high and mighty as you think you are due to your diet, you clearly hold a lot of hatred in your heart towards other people. Funny how some of the meanest people I have ever encountered are vegans.
You’re a cry baby who goes and blames your community for you choosing to support the murder and slavery of the animals. What the fuck does other vegans saying “mean” (i.e. truthful) things to you have ANYTHING to do with choosing to do the right thing? You do realize you are taking innocent lives, right?
PLEASE have your micronutrient and mineral levels checked……your posts make it sound like you are verging on insanity and psychopathy.
Oh, and stop blaming other vegans for YOU CHOOSING to do the wrong thing. There is NO right way to exploit and kill sentient beings.
They aren’t sentient bro. When a cow writes a poem in iambic pentameter, paints a Mona Lisa, or even so much as speaks to me in complete sentences….? I’ll go vegan. Until then not sentient. Operating on instinct and learned behavior. They don’t have a soul and are thus fair game.
I don’t agree with that, considering I have a very close relationship with my cats. It’s not that I don’t believe animals should be spared … it’s that we don’t have an effective “how” at this time. And vegans are not giving us an effective how. They only keep shouting the same baloney that is not working for humans …
We have been eating cows, pigs and chickens for centuries, survival of the fittest. You vegans are all wing nuts, I swear. It’s not meat that causes people to become unhealthy, it’s crap processed food. I know of no one that eats dairy, fruit, meat vegetables, nuts, seeds, and other whole foods exclusively that is sick. NONE!!
So, in other words, you think it’s okay to exploit animals? ALL use is abuse. You are a coward and a bully to animals. Veganism is FAR healthier than eating dead bodies and animal secretions. What a joke you are. There is mountains of evidence proving how horrendous animal products are for your health and the environment. Also, stop believing the nonsense of how you can exploit someone “humanely” – absolute bullshit. You want to see the tole your ridiculous “break up with veganism” has, just watch Cowspiracy. Also, for info on how utterly dead wrong you are on the nutrition aspect, check out Dr. Michael Greger, he happily and handily schools people like you.
Were you this angry before you were vegan? I wasn’t. And I’m not now, either. I could of course be ranting and raving at you, because you are refusing to learn the skills that would actually solve this problem. You will need to learn how to reprogram the subconscious mind. I’m not going to rant and rave at you because, since I’m no longer vegan, I just don’t have the angry energy for it. Happy holidays :)
I stumbled onto this page after receiving my yearly blood work results and I am deficient in my protein, hemoglobin, Vit D levels and there are some other levels I am unable to recall presently. I have been eating a mostly vegan diet and vegetarian on the “off” days, an excellent balanced diet. I have been starving for a year now and over-eat healthy carb food in an attempt to satisfy my starvation. (You should see me consume copious amounts of nut butter to alleviate this.) I have been also reading about binge eating disorders blaming my eating bouts on this though this was not a problem in years past. I have been vegetarian for over five years and initially felt great. I am now weak, sluggish and have gained 10 pounds. I became vegetarian for the reasons of health and animal cruelty issues. I am at a loss now on what to do and how to eat.
Hi Mary doe,
Yep, you are not alone. This conundrum will not be solved at the level of diet. In the meantime, how about listening to what your body actually needs? I’m still recovering from the vegan debacle but I sure feel a lot better than I did. Even eating junk food during my cat’s health crisis, I still by miles felt better than I did on a vegan diet.
shut the fuck up, Blake. Nobody wants to watch your vegan propaganda films
Why don’t you do the world a favour and go die in some cross, Jesus?
Your an asshole, straight up.
You are not a doctor. Just saying.
Your advice is not accurate, and I would like to congratulate you on getting your DHA/EPA again, as well as the bioaccumulated mercury, dioxins, PCBs, and countless other chemical compound pollutants.
YOUR experience is a single sample-size, and one that apparently was not well educated. I’m sorry you could not maintain a plant-based lifestyle. Stop making excuses though please. Trying to convince people to not adopt a plant-based lifestyle because you couldn’t handle it is disingenuous at best.
And you are yet another example of why vegans alienate the vast majority of humanity, and why veganism will never succeed in solving the problem it purports to want to solve. All you folks have done is reinforce my decision, over and over and over again.
Oh Look.. Another Blogger Likely Paid Off By The Meat And Dairy Industries.. How Many Of You Have Been Bribed Now? Or Perhaps Your Body Is Just Extremely Sensitive And Truly Can’t Function Without Consuming Meat.. I Find This Article To Be A Bit Over Dramatic Though.. You Are Acting As If A Vegan Diet Will Make Someones Ears Fall Off.. Very Strange Indeed
Sigh … still waiting for that million dollar check from the meat and dairy industries :D
Why is there any need to push people to or away from meat at all?
I slowly (basically accidentally) became vegetarian, vegan over 6 years ago, over 6 years ago simply because my salad appetite changed, meat hunger slowly went away (80% raw, raw was driven by appetite and time, not agenda). In 5th year I wanted to simplify eating with non-vegans & realized wow, I’ve been vegan forever and it’s not even like religious for me…so I “tried” to go back to eating fish & meat, but still health oriented versions. Lots of medical issues came with that, plummeted white blood cell count (1/8 of what is needed), uticartia, muscle issues, zero balance, low vitamin D, low vitamin B, and more. At first I didn’t connect it to diet, my doc actually prescribed a near vegan diet which I scoffed at cause I still craved + ate a ton of veggies BUT nearly a year into back on meat and a lot of sickness hubby & I happened to do a veggie cleanse, issues went away, that’s when the health dots connected (“for me”, my body, not pushing for others here) but “for me”, my doc voice rang in my ears, timing lined up on meat + sickness and it was all suddenly like “duh”. Felt waaaaay better, preferred veggies anyway so I’m 80% raw vegan again, mostly by appetite, symptoms gone was never preached here. I don’t have “vegan hot buttons”, what you eat is up to you but I would likely get very sick if I followed your advisement in your original post above.
Your post appears to be promoting/pushing not being vegan (hard) but then your responses to vegans promote well not everyone can do what they do. I’m glad you feel healthier but your original post does not acknowledge that not everyone can do what your original post seems to push without getting sick either.
I think people should do what is right for their life, their body and God. Being angry, controlling, and irresponsible with advice is not a vegan thing or a meat eater thing, it is a “being angry, controlling, and irresponsible thing”.
Some people are living healthier as meat eaters, some people are living healthier as vegan. Are you able to be sensitive to people who are vegan and not on a campaign to convert others? Are you aware that some vegans cannot follow your original post advisements without becoming very sick? If you post again on this topic can you see/share both sides to avoid having your advice lead someone to sickness on either side? Are you able to accept that some people may need to be meat eaters and that some people may need to be vegan? It felt a lot like you were pushing abandoning veganism (hard) to all, again – I am glad (really) that it worked for you but pushing it and have the wrong person listen to you could make them very ill, that is often true with pushing anything biological as fact for all. If your original post had noted that veganism is healthier (honestly healthier, not agenda healthier) for some people then I would not have posted but I didn’t see that and hope that if someone with my similar biology reads it that they will see this before listening, not to save the planet, I would say the same for someone who needs meat in their system before they listen to a blanket push for vegan. Pushing our “individual biological truth” as right for all, doing so by omission or commission can be dangerous & irresponsible. I think your original post does both. I don’t think it was doing both intentionally but your original post did not feel careful to consider your biological opposites.
I just have one question that vegans never answer. Where are all the happy healthy LONG TERM vegans. If you do a Google search on vegan failures the number of hit are enormous. The failure vastly out number the success stories.
They will usually give an example of some athlete with a great body; however, that athlete didn’t build the body on Veganism. All the old people they trot out usually became vegan in the last 5-20 years. All the supercentenarians eat some kind of omnivorous diet and all of the centarians that get written up in the paper are omnivorous.
Also, there are NO PRIMATES that are vegan. Even gorillas get about 10 percent of their calories from insects.
When I mention the gorillas the vegans usually get snippy and say to go eat insects.
Yes, I know. Even cows are not vegan. That’s why I keep saying the philosophy falls apart in a heap of contradictions.
How about Bambi eating a bird?
youtube.com/watch?v=sQOQdBLHrLk
Still don’t understand how some of you are accusing the other side of being angry, mean, controlling, snarky, and ill-able to tell someone else what will make them healthy in THEIR body when you are on this blog doing the exact same thing.
Erika and David you sound angry and agenda laden. So what if animals eat meat? If someone is happy being vegan and healthy then let them be. Why do they have to prove anything to you?
The same goes for vegans talking to meat eaters.
There are healthy vegans, there are healthy meat eaters. Did someone preach at you and you’re hurt? Do you feel self conscious about your choice? You sound very defensive and quick to insult. Are you afraid the other side is right?
I’m actually mostly happy at this point to have moved on to thinking about issues other than food, like how to solve these problems for real by abolishing death. Vegans can do whatever they like. A diet is not going to solve the world’s problems. So I prefer to keep my attention where it can actually do some good – here – https://erikaawakening.com/guardian-angels/
Thanks for stopping by :)
Long-term vegans absolutely do exist. Here is a doctor who is now about 101 I do believe but was 98 at the time this video was produced. He has been vegan since he was around 50 years old. youtube.com/watch?v=FX58PyQwrcI
I think the bottom line here is that each person should listen to their body and respond to cravings. There is no correct, optimal diet for everyone – there is only a correct, optimal way of eating for each individual.
But the cruel, torturous nightmare of the factory farming industry has got to be stopped regardless – go organic, raise your own chickens for eggs, or hunt wild animals instead, until that nightmare is properly, compassionately regulated.
This is a problem that will not be solved with the mind that created it.
I love animals, and feel that most animal welfare groups are run by dedicated,
humane people.
Unfortunately, unless EVERYONE who professes to care about animals is a “TOTAL VEGAN”, some militant animal rights activists (who should be finding
common ground with them) will just dismiss them as “insincere”.
I think it is these militants who are often insincere (even hypocritical,
as in “PETAs” policy of mass euthanasia for even healthy homeless pets
because it is easier than finding them homes).
People who REALLY want to improve the lives of “factory farm” animals welcome ALL thoughtful steps to improve their lives (even if people can’t achieve their ultimate goal of totally abstaining from all animal products)–
becoming vegetarian, pescatarian, eating LESS meat, or only eating meat and/or dairy from more ethical sources.
As mentioned earlier, VIRTUALLY ALL food comes at the expenses of some
(usually mammalian) life.
Small animals don’t just voluntarily give up their homes and get out of the way
of food crop growers.
We ALL are living at the expense of animals.
The best we can do is to try to reduce animal death and suffering as much as we can.
What EVERYONE of good will should get behind (and I hear precious little
of this from some of the most vocal vegan extremists), is to find ALTERNI-
TIVES to meat.
I mean reasonably-priced food that has the taste, texture, and nutritional quality of meat with much less of the cruelty.
I believe that IS DOABLE, IF HUMANITY CARES ENOUGH!!
Well, I would argue that the best we can do is actually far better than that. We can abolish death. But not by adopting a vegan diet. Thanks for commenting :)
It’s funny how this single diet gives you a million and one problems, even white hair. you called vegans angry beings but your post itself is full of anger and rant. Please be more objective, angry people are everywhere, I’m sure there are as many angry meat eaters as to angry vegans. You might have joined the wrong groups or something else up in your agenda ’cause I know some people go vegan for the sake of bashing vegans and veganism. So that they could write something like, “I was a vegan for xx long and it gave me a million and one health and mental tortures as follows”.
Anyway please have an open mind, there are many peace loving vegans out there. Not trying to change your mind but this is a good read.
mindbodygreen.com/0-21759/im-a-doctor-who-specializes-in-diet-nutrition-heres-why-i-dont-have-concern.html
I agree with you Fen and 2nd your request for open-mindedness. What works for one may not work for all, and that is OK. There is enough negativity in the world. »» Quote of Fens comment to Erika….”you called vegans angry beings but your post itself is full of anger and rant. Please be more objective, angry people are everywhere, I’m sure there are as many angry meat eaters as to angry vegans. “
“Chastising people for riding horses (people who clearly love their horses) while killing your unborn child?”
Yes! Thank you for pointing that out. One of my former co-workers was vegan and pro-choice. It always seemed contradictory to me.
Yes really very hypocritical and very frustrating talking to people about it who don’t acknowledge the obvious contradiction. Thanks for chiming in :)
Thank you for speaking the truth Erika! Vegans are not a fun group to be around. They have a tangible pessimism towards everyone: carnivores, omnivores, vegetarians (for not committing fully). The film ‘Cowspiracy’ takes jabs at Vegetarians for eating dairy. Vegans even hate other vegans who eat honey. Vegans hate other vegans that own cats. I have a friend who received a leather purse for her bday. It was the last gift her mom gave her before passing away. She kept it and was shamed by her Vegan ‘friends.’
50% of vegans are normal; the other 50% are crazy. Together they account for 3% of the population. I find Vegans prefer to keep it at 3%, so they can remain an exclusive club of omnivore bashers and trade recipes that taste like crap.
Doctors and fire fighters save lives. Teachers teach and influence the next generation. Hippies don’t contribute to society so being a vegan gives them purpose…an identity. The lifestyle creates a new social circle of friends. Normal people develop friends from college/work, but hippies don’t go to college or work. The coolest vegans are the ones you didn’t even know were vegan.
Most meat eaters genuinely care about animals. They consider pets family members. This is a quality we share with Vegans, and one that should be utilized more. People that work at zoos are animal advocates and promote conservation. They went to a zoo/farm when they were kids and inspired to choose a career in that field (vet). I volunteer my Saturdays to an animal shelter and donate supplies.
The thing that makes people scratch their heads when it comes to Vegans is their ATTITUDE. It’s not the diet per se. Their restricted diet means more hamburgers for me. They are very preachy and believe in moral superiority. Hippies thinking they know more than Drs who spent 10yrs studying physiology, anatomy, biochemistry to help people. What’s next, not listening to your mechanic when you have a car problem?? Drs say you need to supplement. But vegans contradict this and say, “You get everything you need from a plant-based diet.”
Vegans downplay habitat fragmentation and rabbits/rodents killed during plowing. Some are even in complete denial. Pesticides are used for crops. They protest at restaurants that offer vegan options (Chipotle)…like wtf. They’d rather protest instead of donate to companies like Modern Meadow. The largest investors in the company are the USDA and NSF.I didn’t see PETA on the list. For every person that becomes vegan, one reverts back to omnivore. If you were a Vegan for 15yrs and stop for health reasons, they’ll shame you and put your personal info online.
Activists steal dogs from homeless men in France (look it up). The militant ones limit nutrients during a crucial time when their kids are developing bones/brains (there’s a married couple in jail). They publish your name and city online if you leave their cult. Nobody wants to be in a group that behaves this way.
Some girls that become vegan have a prior history of eating disorders (anorexia, binge eating, emotional eater, bulimia, yo-yo dieter, fad dieter). She may intentionally eat only 500 calories of salad per day, and claim it’s because she’s vegan, when really, it’s to hide their anorexia. Veganism is an unhealthy obsession with ingredients that takes away from other aspects of your life.
Vegans probably eat animal products. If you go to a vegan restaurant, you have no idea what’s really in there. Is there a vegan honor code? Do you blindly trust the owners? Do you blindly trust the companies that claim to be ‘vegan?’ I could bake a cookie and claim its vegan. There is huge money to be made here, and Vegan companies can be corrupt. Whole Foods is known for overcharging (look it up).
Bodybuilders who built muscle on a protein-rich diet, and became vegan last week, claiming they’re vegan bodybuilders…gtfo. They are taking a shitload of animal byproduct supplements, maybe even doing steroids. Who knows what goes on behind closed doors? Most vegans eat cheese at home, but would never admit it to their fellow cult members.
Vegans compare a human baby to a piglet, and say they’re equal. This is just something they say to evoke emotion. If a train was coming down the tracks, the vegan would save the human without hesitation.
They use a lot of propaganda that’s misleading. I watched ‘Forks Over Knives.’ Fewer rats got cancer…but they also died at an earlier age. It’s hard to develop cancer if you’re already dead. As an aside, there’s no cure for cancer, and if there was, that drug company would be rich. Vegans believe that doctors and farmers are in cahoots, and play golf together on Sundays.
The movie also referenced some country Germany? stopped eating meat and heart disease decreased. But fish consumption went up 200% and sugar/starch/fats decreased 60%. Alcohol/tobacco also decreased significantly.
I’m not sure why we’re debating this…The best diet according to all studies (vegans, meat eaters, vegetarians, doctors) pretty much everyone is veggies, grains, and lean protein like fish. Asians live forever and look young well into their forties.
There’s a hidden camera show called “What Would You Do” find it on YouTube. There’s a vegan episode. Meat eaters completely respect the vegan mother’s decision, and come to her defense. Vegans, on the other hand, would probably bash the meat eater, call them a murderer, etc.
From a moral stance, Vegans win. This is the only legitimate claim they have. Everything else is an attempt to add weight to their odd eating habit. The number one contributor is burning fossil fuels, not cows farting. The manner in which cows/chickens are treated on factory farms is appalling. Some farms are adopting better behaviors though.
From a biological stance, Vegans lose. Some vegans claim we’re herbivores but stating this makes them lose all credibility immediately.
Cats=Carnivores
Dogs=Omnivores that lean toward meat
Humans=Omnivores that lean toward veg
I’m not sure what our closest relatives (chimps) are classified as. They have to be omnivores since they eat ants for protein. Regardless, at some point in our evolution we started eating meat, especially during winter months when crops weren’t available. Some scientists/anthropologists believe protein played a role in brain development, and I agree with this notion. Its 2015…we’re flying to the moon, and chimpanzees are still in the jungle scratching their butts. We didn’t evolve from chimps, but share a common ancestor. Veganism is a slap in the face to ancestors who are the sole reason humans exist today.
Our cells need cholesterol (HDL) and B12 to function. Animals eat each other in the wild. A bear also eats honey, and this sentient being wouldn’t contemplate the morality of eating you. Lions eat zebras. If you have a problem with Mother Nature take it up with her.
The typical vegan self-exam is:
1. Eats chips and soda, starts eating veggies and feels better…credits veganism
2. Becomes a vegan, loses all energy, gets sick easily…calls it detoxing
If Vegans didn’t exude smugness and insult/mock (haha you’re eating bee vomit) people wouldn’t be so turned off by the group. We hear Vegans loud and clear, and we’re confused quite honestly. Why are you protesting at Chipotle? Why are you saying humans are herbivores? Why are you publishing the names of ex-vegans? That’s not cool. Why are you antagonizing Vegetarians? Most people are vegetarians before becoming vegan, so why are you deliberately turning them off?
I don’t think Vegans actually want to expand the base. They prefer to keep it an exclusive niche group. They are their own worst enemy when it comes to public perception.
I’m a hippie who went to college, along with many other hippies. Not all hippies are vegan, not all vegans are hippies.
Peace and Love
Hey George,
I’m not vegan but, just a pescatarian at the moment. However, is it so wrong to admire what the vegans are trying to do? I don’t know…when I was a child, a chicken was slaughtered in front of me, and my family was poor so we fished for frogs – and we even actually tried fish fishing – and, I just remember as a 3 year old the devastating sadness I felt and empathy for the animal. I agree that angry vegans are highly grating but, at some level, even though it’s clearly detracting from their health, don’t you find their self-denial somewhat admirable? I do, even though I can’t sustain it myself, and I agree that it is probably leaning suicidal….still, a lot of people respect Jesus even though they are not personally up on the cross….
Some of us don’t believe the cross was Christ’s message, rather the resurrection was his message. Salvation is the end of sacrifice. And the way we know veganism is NOT the answer is that it is ALL about sacrifice.
I add my support to your new found transition. I was one of the many followers of the vegan dogma and after 7yrs was left with hypothyroidism that now requires medication. It was the work of the Weston A. Price Foundation that was instrumental in my transition. Thankfully the following 10yrs of eating a whole foods traditional diet( i.e. pasture raised animal foods, lots of veggies, cooked in animal fats, wild caught fish, nuts, and some fruit) has brought me to excellent health. Veganism is NOT the natural state of woman/mankind. Life on this level existence requires us to consume other living beings. Be they plant, animal or mineral. We in turn become food for the microbes. Cycle of life folks…Our collective humanity worked pretty hard to get us to the top of the food chain. My suggestion is we stay there.
We’ve all had our missteps. Your contribution to this world can now be made with a clear body mind and spirit. I wish you well on your journey.
LOL. Don’t listen to this airhead. Hater’s gonna hate. My experience is totally opposite. I’ve been vegetarian for over a decade – vegan for two years. I’m 40 and I look better now than I did at 30. I also feel completely healthy. My skin is more radiant. I did lose my hair, but that happened when I was in my 20s and eating meat (if I were the author of this poorly researched “article” I’d blame male pattern baldness on my consumption of meat!)
Don’t trust this knucklehead. If she wants to go back to eating meat, so be it. But don’t disparage the only group of people who are pushing for changes that will actually make a difference in this world. Veganism helps the planet, more so than any other pollution-reduction method. I won’t get into all of the other compelling reasons to stop eating meat (colon cancer anyone??) – the morals, etc. For that, all you have to do is watch the myriad undercover videos filmed at are modern day houses of horror, like Tyson chicken, Smithfield Pork, etc. If you’re comfortable supporting such archaic, cruel, and appalling practices, your moral compass is way off. But I doubt *anyone* actually supports such things; they just ignore it, and stuff their Mickey D’s and Taco Bell into their fat pie-holes.
For people curious about how the vegan diet is “bad” for you… check out David Carter, the 300 pound vegan, NFL defensive lineman. He’s getting plenty of nutrients. Or how about Rich Roll, who went from meat-eating couch potato to superstar runner?? He never complains about “fatigue” or “lack of nutrients.”
I think this Erika lady is maybe a little bit crazy… maybe she just couldn’t stand the stigma (admittedly hard in this world)… or maybe some guy she liked turned her back to the dark side… (‘Puddy’ from Seinfeld voice) “c’mon, babe – have a burger…” LOL. She is most definitely NOT a nutrition expert.
Hello John P,
Thanks for commenting and sharing your perceptions of the article and the world. Is it your view that all humans share exactly the same genetic code? That pretty much must be your view, and then I’m not sure why we don’t all look like identical twins. Otherwise, there would need to be some room in your view for people having varied experiences with this diet. Considering the simple fact that humans have been consuming animal products for millions of years, it seems likely that most of us are “coded” at the subconscious level to require animal products. And so while there may be exceptions – and by the way two years is not long enough to know yet whether you will face severe health consequences at some point – most humans probably do not thrive on a vegan diet.
I understand the needs vegans are attempting to meet with the vegan strategy because that’s why I was vegan in the first place. However, foisting an unnatural diet on us without addressing the very good reasons why people continue to consume animal products … is not a strategy that is likely to work. Nor is it in alignment with the supposed compassion that vegans say they espouse.
Word Brother!! I have a feeling her symptoms were emotional! You can hear the self loathing in the writing. Way more going on here than just eating vegan.
Of course there’s way more going on, that’s what I’m trying to tell you all. You cannot solve this problem at the level of symptoms, any more than you can really heal a disease with pharmaceuticals.
You want real change? Learn how to reprogram the subconscious mind.
Erika, if any feeble minds have been swayed or received the justification they needed to continue their unhealthy meat eating lifestyle the blood is on your hands. There is no need to scream your failures from the roof tops in an effort to get consoled by the army of uninformed carnists. Many of your arguments where plain wrong. I hope you find happiness in your denial.
And I hope you find happiness in your denial, as I am quite confident you haven’t learned the first thing about reprogramming the subconscious mind – which is the only way you will solve these problems you purport to care so much about solving. Since you haven’t even taken the first step … no point in shaming me. :)
And are you, pray tell, a nutrition expert?
I’m 33 and people tell me I look 24. I eat meat and I am in perfect health. I was working as combat support for a navy SWCC unit, and I never met a SEAL or SWCC that was vegan or vegetarian, and they are in insanely good shape. They are the cream of the crop and most people cannot physically or mentally handle their lifestyle. Never once met one who didn’t eat meat. A person can be healthy on a diet that includes some meat.
Hi there Erika,
I am hearing all that you and other ex-vegans are saying and bless all your hearts because your intentions were good but the endeavor prove complicated and stressful. I was raised a vegetarian and until we arrived to a cold climate, I was always coming down with things. In North America, still was vegetarian but I was fine and healthy.
When I was an athlete in HS/College, they told me to ‘eat more protein’ and after consuming soy protein isolate powder, a lot of my troubles began — thyroid problems, weight gain, etc. For me intense exercise and abnormal, artificial living and supplementing with artificial food is what did me in.
Once I stopped the intense exercising, I ate a lot and was more hungry….I over-did it on cheese (later found out that it is addictive). It was an aweful diet and it bought arthritis, obesity, skin abscess, high cholesterol, triglycerides, etc…I N
Noting severe arthritis on days I jonesed on the cheese and no arthritis on days I didn’t eat cheese, I switched to vegan.(not crazy about eggs or honey) (I was already vegan in my non-edible areas as best as I could be). My joint pains were gone, my skin improved and I felt wonderful except for the high triglycerides (vegan diet does facilitate this) in the bloodwork…with exercise, I was able to reduce it.
Now I have revamped my consumption to strictly whole foods. that are naturally low fat and low sugars. PORTION-Eating is the invisible key to doing this right for me. I don’t really do grains and keep legumes & beans to a minimum. I stick mainly to fruits, veggies, seeds, pseudo-seeds like quinoa and yes Tofu (NO ISOLATES !!).
After a week on this diet, I started feeling great…any reintroduction of grains and excess carbs, even if it was whole food, did not feel right…so what I’m trying to say is switching diets and foods to see what works is a long process.
Oh one other thing: I know from fasting, that your body does go through detox…how were you able to tell that you were not detoxing and that you were in-fact malaise from veganism? Thank you…
Hi Maha,
Thanks … I appreciate that for you a vegan diet improved your health. And I’m sure that is true for some people.
My experience was the opposite. I was vegan for 15 months and things were deteriorating fast at the end. “Detox” not really a concept I believe in when it comes to food, but in any event any detoxing should have been at the beginning – not getting worse as it went along.
I never had popping, stiff joints before being vegan, and the problem has not fully resolved.
My hair was rapidly turning white as a vegan. Problem not fully resolved, but many hairs turned back to brown after abandoning veganism.
By the end of vegan diet, it felt like I was having a heart attack. I could not walk short distances without my joints stiffening up – so bad I could not sit down on a toilet without extreme pain after walking a short distance.
I would get leg cramps. I got blurry vision. I got skin issues I had never had before. And my overall skin was getting worse and worse. Both dry and breaking out.
In short, a vegan diet in the long term was a health disaster for me. And I was eating whole foods and cutting out all kinds of stuff to see if the problems could be solved. No way Jose.
Over the past few months taking care of my cat in crisis, I have eaten way more junk food than I’ve eaten in years. And I STILL feel substantially better than I did on a vegan diet.
I’m not at all going to poke my nose in the hornet’s nest of body chemistry. As I’m sitting here reading your reply, I noticed those symptoms when I did a low-carb diet to lose weight as a friend had suggested. I ate enough but not eating carbs (and I’m talking healthy carbs even) really messed me up. Yeah, for me veganism saved my life. I was working in a warehouse of a ‘major company’ for 10 hrs a day packing boxes. In the beginning of the job I ate cheese and I’d come home to a paralyzed hand which I had to hot-pack/ice it. Once I became vegan, I had the best night’s sleep because my hand did not hurt at all. Amazing results. Unfortunately, no books can really help a person learn about their body as well as trial and error.
Hi Maha, yes trial and error indeed. As people’s biochemistry varies widely, there simply is no “one size fits all” as long as we are dealing with the level of symptoms (i.e., the physical world). High carb diets don’t work for me, never have. I gain weight, am hungry all the time, and don’t feel good. My mother is diabetic, so the not handling carbs well is in our genetics. That stuff can be reprogrammed however I see no need to tap that issue away at this time. I have not eaten a high carb diet since very early in my life. For me, a lack of carbs is not what caused these symptoms. Also, one of the most notable changes since I abandoned veganism is that my mind is functioning much better again. By the end of a vegan diet, I could barely even focus.
Hi there,
Just wanted to encourage and congratulate you on doing something difficult: using your head and doing what makes good sense, against what your group believed.
As your body continues to heal, you will have the strength and joy you need to hold your own. You’re doing a great job from what I see in the few comments I read. From my research and experience, it takes two years to heal the gut. I’m sure you had plenty of gut damage. From there, the entire body can heal. If you’ve come across the 2-year time frame before, then you know what I’m writing about. If not, please keep that in mind, because it can be hard to wait two years. You can do it!
My story has nothing to do with vegetarianism or veganism. I was diagnosed with Crohns at age thirty after the birth of child #1. Instead of taking the prescribed meds, which would have been the end of breastfeeding, I sought to heal myself through food. I learned all about WAPF-style eating, and that during a flare-up I need 30% more protein (from animals). Chicken stock is my number one healer. This year (four years into my journey), I am learning all about the value of fish. Wow. People who don’t eat fish are doing a disservice to their brains, as you must know. Thanks for being brave.
Why am I here? I look for articles by ex-vegans to get another perspective of using foods to heal damaged bodies. I need to be constantly reminded of what foods have the most value (bone stock, eggs, fish), because I will battle a weakened system my entire life. I have achieved great healing, but I know that giving up will be reverting to poor health.
Thanks for the encouragement!
lol, what a crock of bullshit. ”Ate hamburger rare”. I think you are a vampire. So of course you can’t be a Vegan.
Wow! Your post has people really stirred up. Good for you. Good thing I don’t have a blog because disrespectful, arrogant posters wouldn’t like my response. Anyway, ex-Vegan here who is blessed to have vegetarian and vegan friends who are totally cool and supportive of me.
One thing I objectively cannot think past regarding your article:
You self diagnosed yourself,claim to have been direly ill.Yet,you got on the internet and basically got a “Google PhD” instead of seeking medical help…you ate meat?
You are not a doctor,nor nutritional expert… yet,you glibly seek to diagnose a large group of people?
You also claim “the vegans were mean,so me insulting them is okay”?
Two wrongs do not make a right.
You have no proof you were even deficient, yet you casually dismiss observations from people doing well eating whole food plant diets…
Why do your observations have more credence than theirs?
You condemn Vegans for basically “making you believe”….you are an adult aged woman.Take responsibility, please.
Hi Sarah,
In your comment, I hear that you feel frustrated because you would like to see more respect for vegans and the vegan perspective.
I hear that it would meet your need for integrity for medical tests to be run to verify what I was feeling and noticing.
How about that the symptoms started subsiding within a couple weeks of me resuming a non-vegan diet? Symptoms began with vegan diet and began to subside when vegan diet was stopped. Cause and effect, no?
I also reiterate that those who would like me to undergo expensive medical testing to “prove” to them what my intuition and body already know can feel free to send in monetary donations toward that end. Thank you.
The medical and nutrition “experts” told us saturated fat caused heart disease and is to be avoided at all costs. Along comes a new century and more and more experts are agreeing that saturated fats are not cause heart disease, it’s “low-fat” sugar laden foods and *Gasp* Grains.
Yea the way “science” seems to change its mind on a regular basis definitely does not meet my need for trust and dependability ;) Thanks for stopping by ..
HILARIOUS thread…….proves to me yet-again how nasty and ultra-smarmy Veganculters are. But I feel for them……the central nervous system is damaged, in some cases permanently, due to them being members of the Vegancult.
I just wonder how many Veganculters are really sick, run-down and feeling like CRAP…….and they won’t admit it to themselves, much less others!?!?!?!?!?!
Thanks for stopping by. I have more empathy for vegans now that I have more emotional peace about the situation. I get how disappointed many of them felt that I changed my actions in ways that did not fit what they see as values of equality and integrity of all life. I share those values. I just don’t see the vegan movement as the way to solve the problem anymore. The contradictions run deep in our belief systems. We will need to reprogram the subconscious mind in order to resolve those contradictions, and then the solution will likely be that we don’t eat anymore at all. Or that “food” just materializes out of nothingness with no harm to anyone. But the compromise “solution” of veganism is not solving anything.
Reality is many times less than palatable. If you watch some of the nature videos on Youtube, wow, Lions gobbling-down some poor animal while it is still alive and skreeeeming its head off, in agony.
The task of providing food for billion of humans, well, it is a HUGE task and must be done efficiently…….sometime that task ain’t gunna be nice and pretty.
I find member of the Vegancult to be both unrealistic in their lofty ideals when it comes to food production……and ultra-smarmy about how high and mighty they are as a member of the elite Vegancult. And they do not want to get into a factual discussion…….they deflect, make personal attacks and generally behave in a nasty manner. Tell a Veganculter that it is a FACT that heme-iron is absorbed much better than non-heme iron……LOL, the reaction is many times comical. Tell a Veganculter that ALA converts to DHA/EPA at a very low rate……HAHA, another comical reaction.
I really feel sorry for the kids of Veganculters who are FORCED to eat this nutritionally inadequate diet. The other Veganculters who follow this bizarre diet, MEH, have fun.
Hi Tickyul,
Thanks for stopping by. Yes, I generally also have experienced many unmet needs in my communications with vegans, and that is how I experienced it even while I was a vegan. Condemning humans for eating meat while turning a blind eye to what is happening in the animal kingdom every day is one of the many areas of conversation where my needs for integrity, consistency, and honesty were not met.
That is why I keep saying, we will need to address belief systems if we want this problem solved. As long as we are living in a world where one person or animal’s life depends on the consumption of another animal, including insects, or even plants – we have not solved the fundamental problem. Which is the belief in death. And attachment to a strategy (veganism) that is not working, only ensures that our needs as a group will continue to be unmet.
Thanks for stopping by.
Erika
Hello, I stumbled upon your blog post, and even though it’s extremely long and quite boring, I managed to read it in its entirety just to see how much false information you can share in one article. I don’t want to get into details like your wrong statements about omega 3 ect because you are clearly not interested in facts. I will say that there is a difference between a vegan diet and a healthy vegan diet. If you eat potato chips every day you may be vegan but it’s not a healthy plant based diet.
See, this is the problem with the Internet: It has given the voice to mediocre people who don’t deserve it. You present yourself as an expert on nutrition and wellness by using information you probably find on random websites. And there’s nothing more to your article. Have you ever read an actual book on nutrition?
I don’t think diet was the cause of your health problems and you will probably continue to experience same problems with your meat-eating regime as well. The problem is in your head, your negative thoughts and aggression that probably comes from your childhood. And it all manifested on/in your body.
But as you believe in miracles, so do I, and I hope you will find something better to do in life than to spread erroneous information and poison people with your negativity.
Hi nc,
At first I felt so disconnected reading your comment that I put it in the spam folder. Then I thought better of it and decided this might be an opportunity to further the discussion. I felt disconnected because what I hear in your comment, as I’ve heard in many comments, are assumptions about me that were not checked out first. In fact, I bent over backwards to make a healthy vegan diet work and ate virtually zero junk food. Many people have had the same experience that I had.
I would imagine it feels quite frustrating if a vegan diet is working for you, to hear other people saying that it is not working for them? I am guessing that you, like I once did, believe that vegan would solve our many global problems and bring equality and justice to our animal brothers and sisters. And perhaps it is frustrating to consider the possibility that actually the problem is not going to be solved that way or that easily.
Feel free to clarify.
This is so typical. And so cult like. To go in expecting erroneous information instead of reading with an open mind. To assume that if the diet didn’t work for someone that they were doing it wrong. You’re simply regurgitating what many vegans before you have said.
Hi Erika,
Vegan here and not come to fight you – put your fists down! :) It seems you are really angry past the point of no return – personal health reasons compounded with you receiving hateful abuse from other vegans.
I get it, I (stupidly because I was bored, broke and lost) joined the army when I was younger and HATED the type of people I was around, and any time I hear anything associated with armed forces now – I feel the rage and frustration you seem to be having against vegans.
It’s clear where you stand and arguing is just a waste of time. I will probably supplement with taurine though after reading this, or at least look into it. I was under the impression our body makes that itself unless we have some sort of individual issue?
I don’t think veganism is perfect and I don’t blindly repeat everything I hear in the community like as you say, a religious vegan. I don’t even have any vegan mates. I’m vegan after a huge amount of research from both sides (believe me, I didn’t want to give up my bacon) and this is the conclusion I came to.
I was lucky to eat with the Okinawans two years ago (I was veggie at the time) for a few weeks and I feel it’s exaggerated on both sides (meat eaters and vegans). They have a lot more plants on their plate than Westeners do and they eat animal products sparingly – using more of the pig too than Westeners would (organs etc).
May I ask why you didn’t take a blood test, or anything else to see what you were lacking in to be 100% sure? Genuinely curious and can’t be arsed to fight either!
Hi Anthony,
Yea not interested in a fight. I appreciate that your comment is asking sincere questions instead of making personal attacks as so many others have done here.
I didn’t get blood tests because I didn’t have health insurance, and I wasn’t sick before I was vegan. The symptoms started with veganism and began to subside when I abandoned veganism. That’s good enough for me.
I still recognize that this problem needs to get solved. I just no longer seen veganism as the way to solve it. We don’t solve problems of the mind through strategies of the body.
Hugs to you.
I dont know how to contact you so I will post this story here because I think you might enjoy it. I posted on a vegan/nonvegan discussion group that my daughter was getting into all of this Weston A Price stuff and as a result she announced that she was going to feed her young children an animal food. This animal food gets 54% of its calories from fat and whats worse, almost half of the fat is saturated fat. Even worse she was planning to feed this to her children raw. I asked for advice as to what I should tell my daughter. They said that she was damaging her children with such a high fat diet, giving them diabetes, child abuse, ruining their health etc etc. I finally told them that my daughter was simply planning to breastfeed her children, and the “noxious” “harmful” high fat food I was describing is human breastmilk. They spent a lot of time telling me what a horrible person I was. I said that I just wanted to show them how distorted their nutritional cosmology was.
Hehe, yea no doubt. Thanks for sharing.
Hi,
What an honest, well-written article. I was just arguing with a vegan blogger on the Huffpost about the Yulin Dog Eating Festival 2015. Although we both want to abolish this practice, she told me that because I was an omnivore (I buy ethical raised and slaughtered), she didn’t want me to defend her and that we could not stand united. I was appalled, thinking that more voices would be better, but the only voice that mattered to her was the vegan voice. She was also very nasty and condescending with me when I just wanted to find a common ground. Scary stuff, and I’m glad you’re out of it.
Yea I’m glad I’m out of it too. The nastiness of the movement is all we need to know, to know it’s not the right path. Doesn’t mean we don’t need these problems solved … just means a vegan diet is not the way to do it. We need to solve this at the level of belief systems. Thanks for commenting.
Nastiness? Movement? Oh goodness. Why do you keep attacking so many individuals. We are not all like that. Please do not pigeon hole “us”. I am British. It is like me saying “All Americans” are bible bashing, gun toting Red Necks that can’t locate any other country on the map other than The US of A. Course y’all aren’t ;-) Point being love, if you have had a bad experience I am terrible sorry veganism didn’t work out for you. But kindly refrain from tarnishing other vegans with your same brush. By all means blog about your terrible experience with your health but lord have mercy leave the rest of ‘us’ out of it. I am vegan and a very nice person. I would also like to express my deepest condolences towards your beloved and sadly departed Harvey. It’s very sad that negative things occurred during your vegan phase. However please do not categorize every individual under the psychopath vegan umbrella as being part of this vicious members only club. We are not all self righteous. Do you think that’s fair to lash out at us like that? If it’s working for me and I’m healthy and not preaching and am a vegan does that mean I am an asshole? I would like to know. Thanks and have a glorious day m’dear!
You’re absolutely right. As I mentioned in the article, there are exceptions to the rule. You can see the proportions for yourself in the comments on this article. There are a few vegans who actually practice compassion and non-judgment with humans. Meanwhile, about 90%+ of vegan comments on this post are harsh, judgmental, ad hominem, etc. It seems very clear that somehow the “compassion” most vegans practice toward animals moves their anger and violent communication to be targeted at humans instead. And you’re only seeing the tip of the iceberg here, because many vegans have way overstepped the bounds of decency and so their comments were not published. I am grateful for those vegans who have actually practiced what they preach.
I’ve been vegan now for over a year and a half and I feel AWFUL! I’m constantly fatigued, I have sciatica in both legs which I’ve had for over a year now, I’ve had a bunch of other injuries, increased anxiety, a few mild headaches ( never had headaches before), a decrease in performance (i’m a cyclist) and more. I used to be a promising young cycling talent (I’m 19) and now I’m pretty average.
I’m starting to believe that a vegan diet isn’t working. I really want to be vegan but at the same time I really want to feel good again and not having to cancell group rides just because I’m too tired. All my blood tests are perfect tho, that’s weird.
My fatigue kicked in IMMEDIATELY as I went vegan, literally after only a day or two. I remember that a few days before going vegan I tried eating vegan for 1 day and felt super tired and then when I ate some meat (I think it was bacon) I felt good again. Maybe I’m like you that I simply cannot thrive on a vegan diet.
What should I do?
Oh, I forgot to mention that I’ve started to really crave meat. I ate about a kg and a half of meat substitutes yesterday but that didn’t cut it. This craving has only been going on for a week or two, before that I didn’t really miss animal products.
Yea all the vegan “substitutes” don’t have the right nutrients so no wonder you would have cravings …
Hi Jade,
Yea sounds like a vegan diet is not really working for you … I feel much better since I quit it. :) That’s a bummer about the cycling performance and canceling rides. I honestly don’t think humans are capable of being truly healthy on a vegan diet under our current belief systems.
Jade, What motivated you to become vegan in the first place?
Your body is trying to tell you something. Not everyone thrives on a vegan diet. Only 2.5% of the population is vegan. Listen to your body and don’t feel guilty for eating meat. Take a moment to think about all the animals that eat other life forms, besides the obvious. Lions, tigers, bears, sharks, alligators, snakes, spiders, fish, octopuses, starfish, jellyfish, many birds, dolphins, whales, pelicans, pigs (omnivore), many bacteria, even some plants are carnivorous. Nature allowed for this. Nature encouraged a food chain. That is the hard truth and nothing anyone says can disprove that. Applying a moral evil or a right or wrong to something nature encouraged is purely subjective. You are no more evil for eating meat than any other animal is. Don’t allow these “peaceful” vegans to bully you or harrass you, as though they are somehow so threatened that you, someone they don’t even know, could possibly go back to eating meat (like the other 93% of humanity). It is your decision. Ignore the guilt trips and mind games and bullying from these people. They are literally acting like a cult at this point. Do you really want to be associated with that? You want to know a secret, most people don’t like vegans. Most people consider them to be downright insufferable. Veganism was actually a deal breaker for me when I was still dating. Outside of the vegan circle, most people do not like vegans at all. If you want to eat meat then do so. If you want to be vegan than do so. Listen to your body, not these militant vegans who will berate you for eating a turkey sandwich.
Yep I personally am working on “causelessness” … in other words, fish and loaves
Yes I want to say thank for this article. I concur. I was a (militant) vegan for 2 years then vegetarian for 4. I have been considering eating meat for a long time and recently my family made this leap. Just so many reasons. Our health is suffering….depression, fatigue, excess weight, blood sugar issues, you name it. This past winter i was sick all season long. Sicker than i ever have been. My daughter who has only ever known vegetarian seems to catch everything. Yes, we ate very balanced. But i just never really made the connection. I wasnt ready to.
Vegetarianism would not be possible with modern farming and technologies. It certainly has a lot of flaws. Its just not natural for us as humans. If one has to supplement to be healthy then your diet is not working. I am 100% against factory farming. Our family compromises by supporting only free range, local, grassfed, organic. I too am in a stage where i am craving meat. My face has stopped breaking out. My digestive issues have cleared up. I forgot what it felt like to be full. Actually, truly full. I found this article inspiring. I hope the rest of the hateful, accusatory veggies will find their way as well. What a shame.
Thanks again!
Hi AR,
Thanks so much for sharing your experience. I received another message earlier today that said this:
“Hello, I hope you don’t mind me messaging you out of the blue like this. I used to be vegan too. I read your blog on how unhealthy being vegan made you and it also did the same thing to me, your blog helped me to finally move on and start eating properly. I saw countless vegans attack you in groups for your decision and they’re now doing the same thing to me…it’s pretty pathetic. They are horrible people. Anyway…thanks again.”
I am still recovering from the multitude of symptoms of malnutrition that I accumulated on a vegan diet. I hope more people will save themselves before it’s too late.
Wishing you a speedy recovery.
cheers,
Erika
Erika,
Twitter sent me the link to this thread, supposedly because of my interests. I’m not sure where they got that idea since it is a subject I generally avoid except where Adventists start insisting no one who still eats meat at the time of the Second Coming will get into heaven or get going on the craziness of the so-called Eden diet, but include roots, stems and leaves. The idiots can’t/won’t read. Adam and Eve weren’t given permission to eat the entire plant until after they sinned and the quantum change had taken place. That’s an interesting little factoid right there. Obviously they could no longer survive on a diet consisting only of fruits, nuts and grains. Personally I believe meat was added to the diet at this time since the sacrificial system was instituted at this time as well and eating the sacrifice, whether an animal sacrifice, a meal (grain) offering, or the first fruits of other crops, was a part of most of the various sacrifices.
All of that stuff is symbolism There are spiritual realities behind these rituals. You had a name for this that I saw above, but cannot recall. These symbols are not the spiritual realities, as religionists of all varieties want you to believe, but they do not stand completely apart from the real thing either; there is some relationship there which I do not yet fully understand. Yet these self-righteous idiots cannot see that their attacks on you really is a much greater sin than your “sin” because it is murder on the quantum level and you are simply eating an animal that in the symbolism is there to bear your sin and be killed for it.
(That is the Judeo-Christian symbolism. I have not studied sacrifices in other systems and do not know the justifications given in their writings.)
Enough about that stuff. Once on this page I felt compelled for some reason to read all of and save the main comments to you until I had. My eyes really did glaze over on some of that vegan bullshit, but I did make it through reading at least a portion of every post. I was able to see that your research has been rather thorough, and something that I had thought might need to be brought to your attention probably doesn’t although those who did bring it to your attention were doing so with a vegan slant that greatly ignores much of the teaching of the raw food movement. Strangely enough, it was you that mentioned the co-factors that cooking destroys, and no one seemed to mention them as the reason for a raw food diet being better for you. I saw no mention of the gut flora that is so easily destroyed and does the actual digestion of food in a healthy digestive system. These also rely on the co-factors.
I’ve seen little in the way of reliable evidence on this stuff since all I have seen or heard except one source was 100% marketing materials for someone’s suppliment. I have been unable to find additional information on-line concerning that one source, but I know away from the church where he gave the message I heard he makes money off this stuff as well, so just how reliable can he be? I consider him a man of integrity but everyone has their blind spots and he mentioned many of his own past blind spots in this talk.
In short, nearly all foods have enzymes that tell the gut how to handle them and digest them. All of these food enzymes are stripped off when the food is heated. The heat to strip off a particular enzyme will vary but all food enzymes are removed between 96 degrees and 180 degrees. Without these enzymes the body must improvise to digest the food and proper digestion does not take place. That does not mean adequate digestion does not take place and because our bodies are so resilient we can still have what we believe to be good health even though it is much less than optimum. Ken refers to cooked food of any kind as junk. He refuses to call it food. I consider this more than a little extreme, but I do understand that it is of less than optimal benefit.
I have looked at a couple of the raw food websites these vegans gave you and found none of this information. They seem to know raw food is supposedly better for you; they have no clue why and no clue what they do to these foods that destroys the benefits. If you don’t understand why and how none of this is useful information.
Ken understands the purpose of and proper location of all 8 to 10 varieties of gut flora. If it is not in the right place you have problems. If it is absent you have problems, and in nearly all cases those problems are deficiencies in some nutrient. It is usually these bacteria and not our bodies that manufacture the nutrients we need. Most people on the western diet and everyone who has taken antibiotics has none of these bacteria in their digestive system. The enzymes on the food tell these guys how to handle each bit of food. If any of this stuff is missing you have digestive problems and nutrient deficiencies. Most of the time your doctor will tell you to eat yogurt after taking these antibiotics and other strong medicines that destroy these things. This only replaces one of these colonies. Generally when you find other probiotic supplements you find that they do not replace all of these colonies, but then these bacteria generally cannot live together; they must be compartmentalized to it is difficult to replace them all with the same supplement.
One of the things Ken says in this talk is that saying, “I was wrong,” is one of the hardest things anyone ever has to say, but at some point we all have to say it. He used to be a vitamin and supplement junkie. As a health practitioner he pushed those things as well, just as these vegans are doing. This is the biggest thing he admits having been wrong about. All the supplement people rave about the purity of their product but without the cofactors that they stripped off in the purification process you body has no idea what to do with them. Worse, they will clog the cell membranes preventing the absorption of real nutrients. This could well be what you were experiencing and why you were starving to death on this diet.
The primary example that Ken uses in this talk is vitamin C. If you take 1000 mg of vitamin C you have taken the equivalent of 200 oranges. The body immediately begins looking for the rest of the components — the vitamins, the minerals, the water, the enzymes — the rest of the stuff to process it. There isn’t any so the body will treat that just like a poison because at that point it is.
These vegans told you all about how your body starts detoxifying when you follow their protocol. Ken says just the opposite. His claim is that you begin toxifying as soon as you eat cooked food because your body has to change its chemistry just to digest the food. As soon as you start adding the supplements you immediately greatly increase the toxicity and start having many of the problems you described. If Ken is right, you were right. The diet was toxifying you and causing the skin and other problems. Ken says this occurs when the liver is overwhelmed and begins looking for other places to store toxins, not when the toxins are removing from the cells and returning to the places where it will leave the body.
He speaks of Pottenger’s Cats. I did a little checking on this and found that apparently neither the vegans nor the antivegans like this study. So there must be something to it if it pisses off large portions of both groups. The study was about live food vs. dead food, and it is NOT a vegan study. Nor were Francis Pottenger or Weston Price nutritionists. Pottenger was an M. D. studying facial deformities and Price was a dentist studying periodontal disease. Ken does not relate how this study figured into their primary studies. (My scanty additional research does not show that Dr. Price was involved and I could not find his book detailing this study on the website westonaprice.org where Ken said it was available.)
The cats were divided into five groups, raw meat, raw milk, cooked meat, pasteurized milk, and sweetened condensed milk. The real food cats (the first two groups) lived normal lives and died peacefully. The junk food cats in the first generation got sick toward the end of their lives. In the second generation the junk food cats got sick in the middle of their lives. In the third generation the junk food cats got sick early in their lives. In the fourth generation the junk food cats were either sterile or spontaneously aborted. There was no fifth generation.
The manure from these cats was used to fertilize two separate gardens behind the clinic. The real food manure produced a very good garden The plants had full foliage with large flowers, fruits and vegetables. The junk food garden did not even look like it had been planted as a garden. The plants were scrawny and clearly not healthy. The junk food manure was not even a good fertilizer.
I was able to confirm portions of this research on http://www.biospiritual-energy-healing.com/raw-food-diet.html. Here they said there were only three generations of cooked food cats. “There was no 4th generation of CFD cats. No CFD cats of the 3rd generation could give birth to healthy offspring. Either the third generation parents were sterile or the fourth generation cats died before birth!”
This site told of a subsequent study on the surviving cooked food cats, placing them on a raw food diet. Interestingly it took four generations to remove the health effects of the dead food diet. Interestingly this correlates to biblical teaching in which God says he will visit the sins of the fathers on their children to the third and fourth generation, and in which immigrants to Israel could not have full citizenship rights until the third generation.
Ken names three things we must understand for our health.
1) You are sick because you cook your food to death.
2) Everything works.
Under number 2 he stresses that because the body is so resilient no matter what the remedy you will find instances where it works, whether it is standard modern medicine or various natural healing methods. But you know nothing until you ask (and answer) questions: How did it work? Why did it work? When did it work? Where did it work? What actually was working? What are the long- and short-term effects of it working? At what cost to your body did it work?
Ken lists the worst cooked foods you can eat (in decending order) as eggs, dairy, grains, fish, poultry, meat, then tobacco and drugs (including all concentrated vitamins and suppliments.) I do not know where he places other cooked vegetables, but when I listened to this again after reading your article I found it interesting that cooked red meat was one of the least dangerous cooked foods and it was clearly helping you with your problems.
Next on Ken’s list in descending order of bad for you is raw foods, beginning with left overs (they oxidize and become useless), fried foods (my favorite) because not only are they cooked to death but they also add toxins, alkaline foods, citrus fruits (burn to an alkalai ash in your body), then other fruits (too much sugar and feeds yeast, mold and fungus, which become serious problems when the other gut flora are killed off and their waste products form the tumors and many other diseases in our bodies), raw vegetables, the grasses, raw nuts and seeds, raw meat, raw fish, raw milk and raw eggs and finally raw honey.
The lower on this list of raw foods the more healing and healthy they are for you. Now, take a look at that list and tell me where vegetables fall? Is there something even more healing that the raw vegetables? What are you eating most right now (maybe I should ask just how rare your cheeseburgers are and suggest you not cook them at all?)
Personally I will not advocate this diet for the exact same reason I will not advocate the so called Eden diet. Something happened at a quantum level when we sinned. When you look at the sacrificial laws (again, Judeo-Christian only since I have not studied anyone else’s and don’t know the reasons behind their rituals) the meat of the sin offering and of the fellowship/peace offerings was to be either roasted or boiled on the altar and then eaten. The grain offerings were to be either roasted and eaten or else cooked on a griddle into cakes or baked in an oven into loaves before it was offered or eaten. I have never studied this deeply enough to know just what but apparently cooking has a certain value for us in our present condition and until quantum changes take place to return us to our perfected state we need some cooked food.
But I found all of this interesting. I don’t know if you have encountered any of this information in your studies and simply didn’t include it here or if this is new and useful to you, but I would suggest you look into it. You already possess much more nutritional knowledge than I do so you are probably much better able to evaluate this stuff than I am.
I would also like to comment on one other matter before I close, and that is about listening to your body. Yes, your body knows what it needs and it will tell you, but because of how easily our appetites are perverted, what it asks for may not be the best solution. For example, when you have a chocolate craving your body is most likely telling you it needs copper. Chocolate is not the best source of copper because it is nearly a useless food nutritionally and it is an extremely powerful stimulant. Yet is is the food our body is usually most familiar with that contains copper and most of us will consider it the most tasty. So listen to what your body says as you continue to heal, but be aware that sometimes there may be better options out there and don’t be quite so dismissive of some of them simply because the information came from some know-it-all idiot who is not as healthy as they think, and who believes his/her way is the only way to health.
I tried pretty much everything before I concluded that a vegan diet will not work for me, including upping my intake of raw food and focusing on probiotic foods. Fact is, humans evolved with fire. And I’ve read enough harrowing accounts of ex-raw-vegans that I now believe a raw vegan diet may be even worse than a vegan diet. At this point, vegans have lost so much credibility with me that I am highly skeptical of anything that comes out of their mouths.
Hi Erika,
It was great to get thoughts of many people about Veganism on the same article.
I think every human must have “Compassion” for other living beings.
So, we can compromise with our Taste and Preferences to save “Lives”.
But we can’t compromise with our “Health” because “Survival” is also very important.
By the passage of Time the compassion boundaries and our metabolism will become wider and we will be able to save more lives.
Lets keep & increase Compassion in our heart.
All the best :)
Hi Sumit,
Thanks. What became clear to me in all this is that the entire situation is so fraught with double binds … there is no hope of any real answer without quantum change. And quantum change does not come from a diet. It comes from reprogramming the subconscious mind.
Yes, and if people want any kind of real answer here, they are going to have to look beyond diet. The entire world we see is based on the supposed “cycle of life and death.” I see vegan as merely a failed attempt to reduce cognitive dissonance between our aspirational moral values and our actual existence. What is necessary is to transform the beliefs in death at the quantum level. And thus far, vegans seem more interested in complaining than learning any new skills. In the meantime, while I’m waiting for people to see that vegan is not solving anything … I shall eat meat.
Depends why did you become Vegan in the first place? For me it is the same reason why I am not a cannibal, I would rather face whatever comes with being vegan and as far as I can go I will find alternatives, workarounds, supplements, anything that would let me not feel a part of the painful killing that happens to the animals which include fishes. So far, 20 years of vegetarianism and about 6 months of veganism, I have been ok, and even if I would find no way out I would first turn to vegetarianism (which I have been most of my life except for like an year that I started eating chicken in 1995-96 which I so regret doing now) and trust me I have never missed anything in taste, and last 6 months I have been in best of my health.. Eating any animals would only be the last resort for me.. and for that I have to be in hospital on death bed..
I almost was in the hospital. It was vegans who persuaded me there is no moral difference between eating meat and being vegetarian. After all, if they are killing the baby males, then killing is the direct result of eggs and milk. As well, eggs and milk fail to provide key nutrients that I clearly was lacking.
But see … the more I thought about it, the more I saw no moral difference between a vegan diet and a meat eating diet – https://erikaawakening.com/vegan-philosophy.
So as my health collapsed, the vegan philosophy also collapsed. And now I am confident that none of these problems will be solved by a diet. So the more people are attached to the idea that being vegan somehow makes them morally superior, the longer it will take before they learn the quantum skills needed to solve anything :)
My Vegan criteria is none of the following:
1. Boast around to people about it.
2. Environmental conservation.
3. Health/mental stability
4. Food cycle preservation.
5. Food shortage problem solving.
6. DHA/EPA/B12 availability
7. Tasty vegan food/alternatives.
If I would have become vegan due to any of the above reasons, chances are that as soon as life gets a bit uneasy I would give in.
My vegan philosophy is I don’t want to be the reason why another animal should painfully tortured and killed… and would go as far as I can to avoid that. It doesn’t matter if the animal anyway has to die due to some other reason, or it is not sustainable for the planet, I would rather let the animal choose its own death than impose it on him. Everytime I see meat, I see the face of animal and feel guilty about my life being a shame if it needs someone else to die for me to survive. I understand that some bacterias may have to die for me to survive but as I said before “as far as I can go” and I can go as far as to not let anyone in the sentient animal kingdom die. This lets me stay strong everytime I have a chance to eat meat. Its like if your family member has to die for your dessert would you not rather choose the other one where no one has to die?
I think you’d probably feel differently about it, if like me, you were potentially going to die yourself from a vegan diet. I don’t see a single vegan on this entire article comment section willing to end their own existence to help animals. I felt the same way you did … until I got very sick.
What vegans seem to be absolutely unwilling to acknowledge is that some humans HAVE TO EAT ANIMAL PRODUCTS in order to be healthy. And that means that if you require everyone to be vegan, YOU WILL BE HURTING HUMANS. How is that any more justifiable than anything else, beyond the fact that there is no such thing as vegan food. Vegans aren’t just killing bacteria, except in la-la land. Vegans are killing billions of other animals as well.
If the situation was that I was going to die on vegan diet, i would first switch to vegetarian diet and see if I can survive, and based on my last 20 years experience I have had no problem and been quite healthy as a vegetarian, if for some reason I would not be able to live on vegetarian that is when I would try eggs or something that doesnt kill animals, if that doesnt work, i will become meat eater.. however it is very unlikely since it never happened before for long time.. did you happen to try if any of the intermediate steps worked for you? It is somewhat unfortunate if they did not and you had no option but to go for meat eating ..
It was vegans who convinced me that being vegetarian is not in any way better than eating meat – in fact, many of them claim it is worse. Because to get eggs and dairy requires killing the male animals in nearly every American producer. Seeing as some of the main nutrients I was missing are found mostly in meat and fish, I am no longer willing to go back to being vegetarian. In addition, the entire vegan movement has been discredited in my eyes.
If people want these problems solved, they will eventually have to get that the problems won’t be solved by a diet. Only through quantum transformation.
maybe some people believe that being vegetarian is no better than meat eating.. to me that argument has no standing.. its like shooting an animal yourself since someday it might die anyway.. if someone else decides to kill it because of whatever his reason .. I can not stop them and will let them make that choice .. but I wont be the reason why they had to get to that point.. (for my food)
I would also try vegan/vegetarian supplements to the things that I need but cant get in my regular food. and if something is so rare.. what exactly is its deficiency causing? I may rather go through the pain of that deficiency if it lets me live.. than again be the cause of crulty.. I have been going through some hairloss and recently I found that some company Viviscal makes a product that works for everyone.. but since it contains AminoMar which is a marine complex created from shark and mollusc powder I would not use it and keep finding an alternate..
I dont care about the vegan movement.. I didnt become vegan to be a part of cool group or a revolution.. I became vegan for my own sake.. even if the whole world would stop becoming vegan it wont change me .. I dont need other people to convince me if this is the right thing to do.. this is where I feel better..
No, it’s not the same at all. Male chicks and male calves are systematically killed in the egg and dairy industries.
And moreover, animals are systematically killed to make “vegan” food also.
This is why the “morality” of diet falls apart. Completely.
If people actually wanted these problems solved, they would have to learn new skills. And as much as vegans and vegetarians CLAIM to care, they don’t really. If they did, they’d stop focusing on diet and start focusing on quantum transformation.
And oh yes … how are female chickens and cows “thanked” for their tireless production of eggs and milk for years? Also slaughtered.
But hey, one cow can kill a whole lot of people. Those vegan crops are killing billions of honey bees, probably far more animals per meal than beef.
So which is worse? This is why it all falls apart. This is why only quantum transformation is going to solve anything.
Hello, It is your decision to go back to a non vegan diet that 99℅ of the world is following, so it cannot be considered wrong. But Im following a vegan diet for last 20 years without any issues. So I dont think it is something dangerous to our health. Any how it is better that, you dont experiment with your health as it seems very sensitive.
I don’t know how many of you are going to come here and say this. Your experience proves nothing about everyone else’s experience. That there is a small minority of the population who can successfully be vegan is simply genetic aberration.
Hi!
I am a university student from Auckland. This semester I am doing a research paper and I have decided to focus on perceptions of veganism and where people get their information about veganism.
You do not have to be vegan to answer the survey, this is just to get information on how people view veganism.
Please if you could spare 5 minutes to answer a quick 10 question survey I would very much appreciate it!
Thank you!
surveymonkey.com/s/9G2HNZH
Congratulations Erika! You are moving more towards balance in your diet and probably this will spill into more areas of your life! The truth is: everyone is slightly different & unique, the human body is a masterpiece & this is why all diseases have not yet been solved, & this is why there is no ‘one size fits all diet’ – it’s very very complex, and not even experts have it totally right! Only YOU can listen to your body & know what works for it – we all have our OWN wisdom! I’m happy for you!
The NIH recommends a plant based diet:
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3662288/
Your adverse reaction to eating vegetables is very concerning…
There’s nothing concerning about it. I know a group of people who are healing themselves eating nothing but meat and water. My body is telling me what it needs. Probably if I had not listened to vegan bullshit and just eaten a well-rounded diet as I had been doing … I wouldn’t be so repulsed by vegetables now :)
You use the word “bullshit” which suggests you are still angry even though you are no longer Vegan, which doesn’t support what you say in your article regarding anger and veganism. In my view, Veganism is nothing but an expression of Love. For me, I have direct experiences with hooved and horned creatures. I play with them and cuddle with them daily and the dose of love that is exchanged is unconditional and very healing for me on all levels. I could never eat or use what I love so dearly and what I consider the best part of my whole life. I love them so much and they love me so much. We literally sit together and hug, cows, sheep, goats, but also chickens, turkeys, pigs. So, for me, they are what makes the world go round because of our cuddling and play together and our ability to communicate so well. These animals are not objects for me to do what I want with them, instead they have added Love to my life and have helped me to become a better person because of what they share with me. For me, Veganism is an expression of Love. I do eat complete protein shakes from vegan sources and eat what my body tells me to eat, but I get my “nutrition” from Love that wells up from inside of me. I give back to them my expression of love in the form of Veganism. But, I feel that way about trees and nature, too. So, for me, I have to hike a lot on the earthen ground in order to feel good as well. Too many lights and concrete are not good for me. Too many chemicals that are not real make me ill. I agree that it is not so good to listen to other vegans or other people about what we should or should not do. I think we need to listen to our own hearts and intuition. But, for me, I am very connected to the hooved and the horned and feel at home with my fingers on hoofs that are in direct contact with the earth all of the time. Food is secondary to me. My health is dependent to what “song” is playing within me and how I am expressing love in each moment. The accepting animals know this and never want me to leave them. When you look into your playmate’s eyes, you can only play and love them. You can never see them with an electric stun gun to their head just before they are taken down when they still had more years in them to run and play and interact and be brushed and cuddled and sung to and nuzzled with. Clearly, we live in different worlds, but still share the same planet. Mine is one with the animals that “feed” me with their love and attention and amaze me with their ability to play with me on a level that is really Fun. Of course, we all have different histories. I had a major tragedy when I was 24 and it put me in shock for many years as i suffered from post traumatic stress disorder and could not be on this planet without the love of animals. The only thing that healed me was being with farm animals because I needed to feel unconditional love. My expression of Love to them is a Vegan diet and a cruelty-free (to the best of my ability) lifestyle. One of my best human friends is really different. The less he eats the better he feels, but he is really an evolved soul, so he can do that. I don’t think any of us have the answers when it comes to health because our planet is so polluted and has gone so far away from being with Mother Earth. But, I do know that Love goes a long way. Only those that have looked into the eyes of farm animals and played and cuddled with them can never go back to eating them or using them for anything other than healers and friends.
Sorry my eyes glazed over reading this comment, I couldn’t get past the first few preachy cliched sentences.
Hi Erika, I’ve stumbled across this site and have read your article and some of the comments that followed. I do respect your decision to do what is right for your own health. I also believe what you have said about receiving very nasty comments from vegans since you left veganism and I understand that this is probably a very emotionally loaded topic for you. But with respect, your comments in reply are also pretty nasty. Not all vegans are deserving of that kind of malice.
I think my comments are appropriate for what is being dished out in my direction. And you haven’t seen the half of it. Vegans “loving” and “compassionate”? Nope, nastiest bunch of people I’ve ever had the misfortune of interacting with … but I attribute it to chemical imbalances due to an inadequate diet.
You are obviously very angry and upset by what has occurred, but I would ask you to consider for a moment, that when you attack the vegan movement as a whole, it is not the people who directed those comments to you that will really be hurt by the damage you are doing, but the animals. And I am fairly certain they have never done anything to you.
Ot is vegans who are hurting the animals.
okay… I sincerely wish you all the best
Some of the world’s healthiest and longest-lived populations, such as the thoroughly-studied Okinawa Elders, get nearly all of their calories from plants. So the only question remaining is, do we need that small percent of animal-derived calories?
Note that the plant-based Okinawa Elders, Hunzas, and Vilicabambas don’t live near grocery stores that sell b12 supplements and thousands of plant-based foods all year round. So how do vegans in the developed world fare? According to comparative studies such as EPIC-Oxford and the Adventist 2 Study, vegans do quite well. They’re not supermen and women, but they do respectfully – and better than meat-eaters – especially considering we’re still learning the fine points of plant-based nutrition. This is probably the reason that the official dietetic associations on three continents have declared well-planned vegan diets healthy for all demographics, including children and pregnant women. This is probably also the reason why the Kaiser Permanente insurance company has advised its 20,000-plus member physicians to recommend plant-based diets.
That discussion has already been had. The traditional Okinawa diet included eating fish at least three times a week. And eggs. Exactly the foods I first craved when I broke my vegan diet. And pork on feast days! Oh, and I’m getting carded again when I go out. That wasn’t happening on a vegan diet. It would seem the diet was aging me, unnecessarily. Try again. :)
You reference the Adventist 2 study for this. I am not intimately familiar with this study, but having been raised as an Adventist and still partially practicing this faith I can assure you that this study never studied a vegan lifestyle. Good luck finding a vegan Adventist. They do exist but they are very extremely rare, perhaps more rare than in the general population.
The first Adventist study was never completed because they simply could not find enough Adventists who had been vegetarian all their lives to study for the long-term effects of a vegetarian diet. They were not concerned about whether Adventists ate milk, cheese and eggs, but whether they had eaten flesh.
The Adventist dietary teachings first espoused by the so-called prophet Ellen White recommend a vegetarian diet, but do not condemn the eating of a flesh diet, and generally no more than 50% of Adventists at any given time eat a vegetarian diet. Only a small percentage have been vegetarian all their lives. Moreover, Ellen White soundly condemned a vegan diet because in the late 1800’s neither refrigeration technology nor transportation technology made it possible for a human to get adequate building blocks for the body to produce enough B vitamins to survive. (Cattle get these building blocks from being able to digest grass, something you and I will never be able to do, and other animals get them from eating flesh.) Today a diet which provides all these building blocks may be available every day worldwide but it is still cost prohibitive for many people.
So, the Adventist 2 study cannot be used to justify a vegan diet. Only about half of Adventists are vegetarian at all and well over 90% of those are lacto-ovo vegetarian.
Cattle also eat insects and other small critters. Most of the animals considered to be “vegan” are not in fact vegan.
Hey just wanted to say, interesting article. I am a happy healthy vegan of 15 plus years, and it pains me to see all the harassment you have been getting. Actually I don’t like to be classified as “vegan” because of all the negative stuff that comes with it, I prefer to describe my diet as plant based. Good luck to you!
Thanks Gouri, I appreciate your kindness and tolerance :) I know, as if the health reasons were not enough … the way vegans have behaved in the past few weeks has turned me off of it forever :)
Erika dear, when you say ‘vegans’ or ‘those vegans’ or things to that effect as if it is a big boogie monstor (lol!!!!), you are seriously not distinguishing between the health professionals who advocate a healthy vegan diet vs. the people who have just gathered information from other people, magazines, etc and have become preachy about it. In any event, you make it sound as if you were subdued and held physically hostage to be vegan. What you do behind closed doors is YOUR BUSINESS !! Ask any vegan and they will tell you that they have cheated on many occasions because of whatever. It is a process of finding a good balance. You are very right that just because a food we purchase is vegan, we cannot overlook all that is connected to that food like transport carbon footprint, the bees for pollination, the pesticides that are destroying our land, the mono-agriculture that is desertifying our land…etc…all of this is a PROCESS OF ONGOING IMPROVEMENT !! Even you getting off Plant-based does not mean you still stick to reducing cruelty to the animals. Always stick to your ideals but do what’s in YOUR ABILITY to accomplish…
Hi Maha,
Thanks for commenting. The vegans I knew would not have acknowledged cheating on the diet … but it would not surprise me, because many of the nutrients that humans need simply are not found in adequate supply in a vegan diet.
From my perspective, do what you can needs to go beyond the “physical” realm where we are only treating symptoms. A vegan diet is like addressing a dis-ease with pharmaceuticals, instead of delving deep in the subconscious mind to resolve the problem at the roots.
Perhaps some vegans will get involved with our latest 111 Days of Love. I am sharing energy healing techniques and so forth that actually could work to get these problems solved.
Vegans think I’m not doing enough. I think vegans are on entirely the wrong playing field …
I find it funny… as soon as we start growing and start making some real positive changes and the meat industry is being EXPOSED!!!!! and people become aware of what cruelty and evil is going on… “you come out of nowhere” and claim veganism is the wrong choice… lol.. nice fake account… paid off by the meat industry. A rats final fight. We all know… We will always fight, and people will know everything, Corporations run this world. Compassion and love will win in the end. =}
Yawn …
YES the original diet in the Garden of Eden is VEGAN…Genesis 1:29-31, alluded to in Isaiah 11th chapter, Isaiah 65:25 & the Crystalline vegan diet suggested in Revelation 21 & 22nd chapters…with Revelation 22:2 “the leaves of the Tree (of Life) shall be for the healing of the nations”
According to a World Health correspondent on Dr. Oz…April 17, 2015 it was reported that healthy vegans partake Daily of 1 cup of beans, with 1-2 cups of greens …of course green bitters are very important such as Watercress, Belgian endive, spices like Garlic, plenty of fresh squeezed Lemon-Lime juices, lots of non-GMO Organic pressed oils such as Olive, Walnut, Sunflower… also the new NUTIVA brand “Shortening” with 3 Tropical oils, that have not been heat processed need to be included with either Citrus lime or lemon, or some good organic Vinegars… to be well digested.
Vegan Margarine EARTH BALANCE is out of this world > my favorite is their Organic version.
Plenty of Bitter Melon to make the FLOW of our Bile, Saliva, Insulin work properly… I recommend from time to time 4 oz. (110 ml.) of fresh-squeezed Bitter Melon juice with fresh Lemon juice (also the spritz of little essential oil of lemon from the skins)… For Taurine we can get Organic fresh dried IRISH Moss from Raw Food World, or from Markus Rothkranz
I believe that Erika being in a cold climate, also from some of her pictures she is on some cold mountain in Colorado… she needed these TROPICAL Oils but they are not easily digested… they require citrus juices full of Vit. C such as Lemon + Lime… ALSO Beware these SEEDLESS fruits, such as Grapes, Watermelons, Grapefruits, Lemons (Limes come naturally seedless, no allergic reactions to them, as far as I am concerned)
So Dear Erika… ALL you need is DAILY 1-2 cups of Beans, with lots of oily Salads of Greens + Green Bitters to digest anything plant material.
Put the 3 Tropical Oils (by NUTIVA called “Shortening” unheated organic oils from Red Palm from Ecuador, Palm Kernel oil + Coconut oil) in your organic Decaf coffee… add a little sea salt too > for good measure.
WE NEED lots more of Sea Salt… I will share this with you… I was craving
Salted Pretzels bought a few from Whole Foods Market (that were not made with Bleached flour, forbidden in Europe…since I come from Europe I am very sensitive about this issue) & I am re-consituting it thus
~ heating 1 cup of Whole Foods organic Soy Milk (90 calories per cup, so it is low in sweeteners), Organic Corn Starch + Coarse Sea Salt… gently cooked
then I dip my Organic Vermont Bread Muffins in this + VOILA… my salt cravings are satisfied.
Meat-Eaters get loads +loads of Rubbers & Salt in their SLOPPY fares…
I do not need that > Also Eggs are like eating Ovulations of animals
I don’t know what you all think I was eating … but I was eating a whole foods plant based diet that included virtually all of the foods you all like to recommend so presumptuously and condescendingly. Sorry, none of those foods contain the missing nutrients. A vegan diet is a scam.
Erica – If your health is failing and you believe that your vegan food choice is the culprit , then you should first have bloodworm done to see what you lack and start there. I didn’t read that you had extensive blood work done, so I don’k know if that was done or not. As a holistic nutritionist, I believe that you must take care of your health because no one else will do it for you.
That being said, I do follow a whole food plant based diet. I don’t consider myself vegan because if I see an ant in my kitchen I am gonna squash that bugger as fast as I can. I have also been “vegan shamed” because I won’t sell my car, furniture, handbags, etc. Oh yes, I have even been told that if I was truly vegan I would never live with someone who eats. Really? I’ve been married and i’m supposed to divorce my amazing hubby because he eats meat. He would have me committed to the looney bin, and rightly so. Everyone has free will.
I was feeling very sick when I was eating eggs, dairy and chicken and fish. I had food sensitivity testing and found the very things I was eating were the very things that were high on the list. I stopped eating any kind of animal products the very day. I immediately felt better.I am eating this way for health reasons. I’m sure there are plenty of people out there who have to eat this way for their health. I occasionally try a piece of salmon or something with egg or cheese and feel like my stomach is being stabbed with knives.
Veganism didn’t begin on the basis of shaming, picketing, arguing with each other.It began as It was about being compassionate and eating a vegan diet as best as possible. Die hard vegans will say it is ALL about the animals and I do not personally agree with that. I believe that it all about treating your body with respect and giving it what it needs to be healthy.
I do wish you wouldn’t have made the comment that you could not stand the thought of eating another vegetable because your body need them for all of the great healthy vitamins and minerals naturally in these foods. If not, you will be right back on all of those supplements.
I, myself am very careful that all of the vitamins, minerals, EPA, DHA, vit D, etc are at good levels by having blood work done every 6 months.
All that said, I am the only whole foods, plant based person in my family( I do have a niece who is vegan, but not a mean vegan shammer). I do however only cook this way. They eat how they choose when i’m not cooking. Each person needs to eat to do the best for their health. If their doctor says cut the animal products to help health, then it is that persons responsibility to do so.
I will probably be defriended from the few vegan posts that I do still follow, boo hoo for me. I have found new plant based groups already. I am not here to shame you for the choices that you made based what you feel is best for your health. Please just remember that just as you have made your choice to eat animal products, there are those of us who have to eliminate all animal products for our health. we are those who will not shame anyone for their dietary issues.
From one nutritionist with issues, please make sure that you are eating what makes your body healthy, just remember that you do need to eat fruit and veg to have a balanced diet(and the occasional piece of cheesecake :) )
Sorry, all of the vegan out there who recalling me a traitor. I am not going to judge anyone, and I don’t expect anyone to judge me. Not being die hard religious either, I do adhere to the quote from the bible ” Judge not, least ye be judged”
Erica – being healthy is what everyone should strive for and it sounds like that is what you are doing. Sadly you now bashing vegans the way you were bashing animal eaters in the past. This is not good for your health either. Be healthy and happy. And for those of you who don’t have something nice to say, please keep your anger to yourself, I don’t accept it.
Hi Kimberly,
Thank you for acknowledging that health comes first. Why did I not get blood work? For a few reasons. One, my research had made it apparent what the likely problems were. And I could see clearly there was no way to remedy them on a vegan diet. So any sane doctor was going to tell me to abandon a vegan diet. Two, I don’t have health insurance. So I didn’t need to go spend thousands of dollars to have someone tell me what I already knew. Especially after my time in the vegan community had done no favors to my financial situation. I figured I’d start eating animal products again and see what happened. The symptoms started reversing almost immediately. Problem solved.
I have no judgment about you being on a vegan diet. If it’s clearly working for you, more power to you. My issue is with many vegans attempting to impose this diet on the rest of the human population in spite of the devastating impact on human health. And frankly, I also have an issue with vegans who clearly are not taking care of themselves. They claim that a vegan diet is working for them, yet their behavior and photographs say otherwise. I believe nobody does anyone any favors when they don’t take care of themselves first.
Now, are there some people for whom it really is the best diet? Probably so, and you may be one of those people. I’m not here to tell you that you should eat meat. That’s for you to decide.
Also, if vegans who do see this as a “social justice movement” actually want the problems solved, they will need to learn new skills. Protest signs and forcing this diet on people is not going to work. Holistic Belief Reprogramming might work, but it’s a huge project that I will not take on without massive support.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts in a non-judgmental way.
Hi, Honey! I´m sorry compassionate eating didn´t work for you. I suppose everyone´s body chemistry is different. I, too, have difficulty with people who can militantly make a religion out of anything, including being vegan. I´m 54, vegetarian since I was 20 and full vegan for the last 3 years. I have a full head of golden brown hair, my natural color. I have more energy than people half my age. My skin and eyes are clear and bright, and when I tell people my age they freak out. I know so many people who are younger than I am who eat an animal-based diet who are riddled with arthritis, high blood pressure, high cholesterol, and all of the “it comes with age” problems that people get. I have none of those things. When I get my yearly blood work done, no one can believe it, because my levels are those of someone in their 20s. I ride my bycicle everywhere, and I feel fabulous. And I´m a blood type O, which supposedly means I´m supposed to be gnawing on the haunch of some bloody thing. It´s working wonder for me. I´m sorry something went wrong with your situation. :)
Hi Lynn,
As I’m sure you know, people are very diverse genetically speaking. Humans have evolved for millions of years eating meat, fish, and other animal products. Due to genetic aberration, there surely is a group of people like yourself for whom this is an ideal diet. And then, why not follow it? My issue is with vegans attempting to force this on the rest of the population, who clearly are not biologically equipped to thrive on such a limited diet. And I am feeling so much better since I started eating animal products again. The oil came back into my skin and hair, a bunch of white hairs turned back to brown, the muscle cramps have mostly disappeared, the creaking in my joints has mostly disappeared … etc. etc. etc.
Hi Erika,
I am just wondering if you ever found out what nutrient you were lacking which was causing the extreme thirst? I have been experiencing an insatiable thirst for about the past week and I can’t figure out why.
Thank you
Hi Jamie,
From my research, it seems that the thirst thing can have many different causes. Some of them are serious, so if in doubt you probably want to get checked out.
In my case, because it was accompanied by other weird symptoms like muscle cramping … I figured my electrolytes were out of balance. I had done prior research about re-hydration formulas and knew the likely culprits were things like sodium, potassium, magnesium, and calcium …
Consuming some salt did help immediately with the thirst. For the muscle cramping though, I learned that taurine (which is absent in a vegan diet) is a necessary co-factor for the body to use magnesium. I was eating plenty of magnesium, but most likely my body could not use it. It is a myth that everyone can produce taurine in their liver. Some people cannot produce taurine. I suspect that my calcium levels were also low.
Over the course of the next few weeks, I made sure to drink some diluted coconut water (which has lots of electrolytes), get enough salt, and get taurine and calcium from animal products (fish, meat, cheese). The muscle cramping has now mostly subsided.
Hope that helps.
Thank you for getting back to me so quickly. I wish you the best of luck on your journey.
Erika,
Your answer to this woman is good for as far as it goes but you have ignored the primary cause of thirst in a healthy body, which will also be a primary cause of such thirst in an unhealthy body on a normal American diet.
The dryness in the back of the throat which most of us equate with thirst is a physiological reaction of the body when electrolyte levels become too high. When the ratio of electrolytes (normally sodium) to water gets too high the action of the salivary glands is reduced giving us the normal sensations we equate with thirst. Because sodium is used as a preservative in almost every packaged food we eat, and because Americans tend to add salt to almost all the food we eat our sodium levels tend to be consistently too high, thus causing thirst.
Our electrical (nervous) system is ion fired, with sodium being the ion that fires going one direction and potassium ions going the opposite direction. I do not recall which takes signals outbound from the brain and which returns them to the brain. For this reason our bodies need a nearly one to one ratio of potassium to sodium and because of the amount of sodium in our processed foods this condition almost never exists. I am told this imbalance also can cause serious thirst problems, but I have not done adequate research into this to know that for certain. I suspect an imbalance with the other electrolytes you mentioned would also stimulate the thirst response. Since this response will washout all the electrolytes, and not only the one that is too high our body is actually working against itself when it does this.
Your questioner needs to be aware of other symptoms accompanying the thirst, and not simply taking partial advice in such matters. I’m sorry I can’t be of more help but I have not researched these matters as deeply as you obviously have.
Myron, that is one possible cause of thirst but not the only one. In my case, my electrolytes were too low. And the body is thirsty in an attempt to replenish the electrolytes … but drinking pure water as I was doing was counterproductive.
Erika. It is understandable that if being vegan was a problem for you you would quit as well as it was making you unhealthy. But it is not so for everyone. However, though becoming an ex-vegan may upset others, it upsets them even more so for you to be talking to them like they are some kind of disease. You sound really mean ;.; . You talk about how they are a philosophy or some kind of cult. Well we are not the KKK. It is not only vegans who do this. Meat-eaters may also push there ideas onto veggies or vegans saying things like you need ‘protein’, you need milk to ‘grow’ an so-so.
I’m sorry, but I have NEVER been involved with such a nasty group in my entire life. You have only seen the tip of the iceberg of the nastiness aimed at me after I revealed I was having health problems. Vegans brought this on themselves. And I am thoroughly convinced that most of them need to start eating animal products again, because they are suffering from diet-induced mental illness.
I never said you were with the KKK, I just said that you were treating us vegans like we were. You mentioned on your Facebook page how everyone has a different body to others, however now you state that they are suffering from ‘diet-induced mental illness’. Please do tell how vegans are suffering from a ‘mental-illness’?
Did you read the comments that were left here by vegans? Oh wait, you only can read a few of them here because the huge number of truly offensive ones were deleted. People who are in their right minds don’t behave like this toward other people. And this is what I experienced every single day in the vegan community, even when I was still vegan. Are there exceptions? Sure. Just not very many.
You seem to be really against Vegans. Maybe you should start a whole religion or cult against Vegan-ism. However if humans can’t live without eating meat why do these creatures exist?
cbsnews.com/news/a-tick-bite-can-make-you-allergic-to-red-meat/
TESLA who is behind our Modern World & everything that you take for granted was a Vegetarian for the last 50 yrs. of his life, while creating this our World.
Meat-eaters cannot create Flight like Tesla did, all the communications, television, computers, wireless & cell phones, smart phones, sound audio-video
Meat-eaters do get their Essential fatty acids, but all in all they are
not very quality oriented. Sloppy consumers vs. Detail oriented Producers…
THE WORLD runs on TESLA > he put it all together from all of the ideas of previous inventions going all the way back to the Greeks & drawing on his contemporaries… Altho they had manifold ideas esp. here in the West I fell our Tesla is descended of those christianized Hebrews who sailed to Eastern Europe among the Slavs… Zechariah 12th chapter states “they cried for him who was pierced” & Isaiah 62:2 and Isa. 65:15 tells us “they shall be called by a New Name which the Lord will choose” THEY COULD NOT MAKE this SUPER WORLD we live in > ONLY a VEGETARIAN could do that & Today he would have been VEGAN
TESLA is Space Travel as well as TIME Travel, CERN Super Collider
Hubble, UFO technology, endless
THE BIBLE speaks about our return to our roots of being VEGANS again… in Revelation as well as in Isaiah, Genesis etc.
The Crystalline Diet is alluded to in Revelation as the CRYSTAL WHITE CITY (the Bride City) or NEW JERUSALEM to be soon upon our Earth > OUR Tesla is entombed in Belgrade which translates to White City > The Vegan Diet is a Crystalline diet, THERE are NO CRYSTALS in Flesh foods
MEAT EATERS see NO CRYSTALLINE or PURE MIRROR Visions > so the best way is to follow what the Lord the HOLY TRINITY tells you is right > There are 300.000 different plant foods on our Planet, why not eat Walnuts > Beans, Organic Flax Seeds…
I am just now putting together a BANANA Shake with organic Acacia Fiber > perhaps even Kiwi’s WILL see how that turns out
this will buff the Mucosal walls & supply gentle gels + fibers, Silica crystals
Blah blah blah blah-ditty blah.
Oh boy. I see logic has failed in so many comments and i can’t possibly get to them all, but lets tackle a few:
1. There is no doubt that human beings cause destruction of this planet that far exceeds any other animal or plant.
2. Therefore, the only way to truly stop this destruction 100% (given our history) is for all humans to leave the planet (death, space, however).
3. That is not remotely realistic. Not gonna happen. Therefore we have to come up with “do least harm” alternatives.
4. These other alternatives are based upon opinion. As Erika said, an arbitrary line drawn in the sand. To each his/her own.
5. Vegans care about sentient beings. Noble. It is natural amd instinctive for animals to eat their natural diet. To feed animals otherwise is cruelty. (yes, including giving grain to cows) this will inevitably lead to death of other animals.
6. Vegans believe animals have rights like humans. Lets go with that for a moment.
7. There are zero historically vegan societies (there are rs vegetarian diets). Vegan diets are not natural and are not instinctive for humans.
8. If animals have the right to eat their natural diet, then so do humans, which include animals. To live in a completely “natural” world, humans would eat animals.
I realize that is a bit simplistic, but the logic holds, especially since there are animal sources of nutrition thst are essential to humans that you cannot get from plants. Vegans require supplementation. This isn’t propaganda. Vegans will tell you that themselves.
All that being said, if one wants tp be vegan, there is obviously a righy way to do it…other ways will negatively impact your health. You have to be careful unlike no other diet… Even an unhealthy SAD diet.
In my experience, vegans have been nasty and close minded. Not all of them, but many. Erika has been, like many others, treated horribly because she has bravely posted her experiences as an ex-vegan. She must have not “done it right” or “wasnt a vegan in the first place”. To thosr saying that : just shut up. You are not helping your cause and are proving her point about the vitriol that comes from vegans.
I wish you success in your dietary journey. Im lowcarb/paleo. Come on over. ☺
Thank you Audra. Couldn’t have said it better myself :)
Audra. If we have the power to not eat animals then we should which is possible with our technology. Animals eat others because they need to but we do not. We just believe we need to because we have been doing it since we as a human cannot even remember. Erika have you seen the 2 videos I have posted?
False. Most humans need to eat animal products to be healthy. This is not Vegan Propaganda Central. You’re not going to fool me twice, friend. As I just stated on Facebook:
Dear vegans, the Great Vegan Debate here is closed … unless and until the massive support is provided to address these issues with Holistic Belief Reprogramming. No, I was not detoxing. No, I was not “doing it wrong.” The vegan philosophy is fighting eons of human genetic and physiological programming. You aren’t going to change that with protest signs. You probably could change it with Holistic Belief Reprogramming. But it’s a huge project, and a highly experimental one. So until you all put your time and money where your mouths are, the debate here is finished. Thank you.
For those who are not familiar with Holistic Belief Reprogramming, learn more here: http://tapsmarter.com/about-hbr
Jesus says,
Do you even have the first clue what Jesus really says (and does?) I have known many like you who make such claims based on what they want Jesus to have believed, done and taught, not what he actually did. Although it is not official Adventist doctrine many of the Adventists I referenced in another post have told me that if you are not vegetarian you will not be saved, that it is a sin for any in the resurrection body to eat flesh and some particularly misguided nut cases have even told me Jesus never ate meat in his entire life.
Sin is defined as transgression of the law (1 John 3:4). Part of that law required all Jewish males above the age of 12 to share in the Passover Seder and other fellowship offerings which would have required him to eat lamb, goat or cattle. To refuse to partake of these meals would have been a sin, but we are told he was sinless (Hebrews 4:15).
After the resurrection (when he was in the resurrection body) Jesus ate broiled fish to prove that he was not a ghost (Luke 24:42, 43) so even after his resurrection Jesus was not a vegetarian. Finally in John 21 we find a story in which the resurrected Jesus was feeding his disciples. They had been out all night fishing with no success. Jesus told them how to catch a large catch. When they came to shore Jesus already had a fire going and fish on it. Presumably he caught these fish himself. He then instructed the disciples to bring some of their catch to add to this meal, and he fed the fish to them himself.
So, we see that neither before, nor after his death and resurrection was Jesus a vegan, and he never tried to push veganism on his disciples at any time. Quite the contrary we find him feeding them fish both before (two occasions) and after his resurrection (one occasion).
Don’t be taking your own personal beliefs and claim them as “Jesus says” when Jesus actions both before and after his death and resurrection prove the exact opposite of what you are claiming he said.
Jesus could manifest fish out of thin air … so He probably didn’t need to catch them. And if vegans were serious about what they claim to be serious about, they would learn quantum manifestation skills. Cuz that’s the only way this problem is getting solved :)
It’s interesting that Vegan didn’t work out for you. I will have to see how my experience goes I have only been vegan for 2 months now. Rich Roll is supposedly in the top 25 healthiest people in the world and he is a super athlete. I am going to google him to learn more. I know he is a Vegan. Only reason I’m vegan is because I really dislike the way factory farms treat the animals. If they killed them humanly I would not be vegan or if i find a farm that does things right. I don’t agree with everything said about the vitamins. I know vitamin A is in carrots. I bought a thing of carrot juice and it contained 750% vitamin A. I know vitamin D you can get from sunshine. There is 45% calcium in 1 cup of Almond milk which I think is more then cow milk. I know spinach is 30 grams of iron for 1 cup. As of the other vitamins you mentioned I don’t really know about. Again I will have to see how my experience goes if I start to get a lot of issues like you got then I will have to change and eat meat and see if that solves the problem. I really think most people can go without animal food but then again I am no nutritionist and I am just taking that guess because I know fruits and veggies have lots of nutrients in them. It seems hard to believe that vegan would cause all of these issues you had but then again what else could it have been?
Jacob,
See I believed all this vegan misinformation about nutrition, too … and only later did I learn that I had been duped.
Vitamin A is a fat soluble vitamin. Many people cannot absorb it in high enough quantities from low fat veggies.
Vitamin D is available in high enough quantities from the sun only for those people who have a sufficient capacity to convert it, as well as sufficient time in the sun with sufficient skin exposed in a geographical location where vitamin D conversion is possible. As many people live outside those geographic areas or do not get enough sunshine or block their absorption with sunscreen or do not convert it well for whatever reason … vitamin D deficiency is common.
There is not 45% calcium in almond milk unless it is fortified. I had been drinking non-fortified nut milks for a while before I realized vegans had misled me about this. When I went to look for a fortified nut milk, I found it nearly impossible to find organic nut milks without sugar that had sufficient supplementation.
Spinach has a lot of iron, but vegetable iron is “non-heme iron.” Many people simply cannot absorb non-heme iron in high enough quantities to maintain sufficient blood levels of iron.
And so on and so forth … I was very disappointed when I learned the truth and that essentially I had been lied to by vegans and compromised my health because of it. I highly recommend that you do research, and not just with biased vegan propaganda sources.
“The vegans” didn’t mislead you about fortified almond milk, for crying out loud. You didn’t read the carton, simple as that. And it’s not hard at all to find fortified, unsweetened alternative milks. I’m consuming one right this second. Your argument may have had validity more than ten years ago when I first became vegan and alternatives were much more challenging to source. Quit acting like it’s some sort of big vegan conspiracy that is out to get people. It’s the meat, animal products and junk food industries that have the multi billion dollar budgets. If you don’t want to be vegan, fine, but it’s nobody’s fault but your own. The fear-mongering isn’t useful, nor does it make you come off particularly well.
Oh they most certainly did mislead me and lots of other people with memes that made all kinds of bullshit claims that were not true.
Lol i lack vitamin d in the winter i live in michigan. Ill have to do more research because supposedly there are some amazing athletes that are vegan and i want to know about them. I know veggies and fruits are the most important thing to eat but I know that doesn’t mean these are also necessarily the only things we should eat.
Good luck with it, Jacob. I regret that I believed many of these vegan propagandists because it had a seriously negative impact on my health. You do whatever is right for you.
Jacob, I suggest you read this post at the very least if you do plan on continuing on with your vegan diet…http://rawfoodsos.com/for-vegans
You do realize all the symptoms you listed are concurrent with caloric deficiency (i.e. starving) right? Right down to the heart palpitations. What did you try to live on, salad?
Remember that meat and dairy have approximately 1000-1500 calories per pound. Fruit, for example, only has about 200-400. Fibrous vegetables and greens are great for nutrition, but won’t sustain you. You need to eat lots of fruit, whole grains, legumes and starchy vegetables like squash, potatoes, sweet potatoes etc.
Don’t blame your inability to properly feed yourself on a vegan diet. If you are going to make claims about a diet that works exceptionally well, and has been clinically documented to treat diseases such as heart disease and cancer, you better have some proper proof. Your personal experience has no scientific validity.
Really, you folks are just so frustrating. Why is it so hard to accept that some people simply cannot thrive on a vegan diet, when that is so clearly the case?
I didn’t lose weight on a vegan diet. In fact, I gained a few pounds. My caloric intake was fine. My symptoms are consistent with multiple nutritional deficiencies, not with starvation. But you all will do just about anything to avoid the truth.
Wow Erika! Those who stir s*** up usually end up licking the spoon… You sure did stir it up; good thing, what’s on the spoon this time won’t be too bad…
I raise cattle. I know what’s in them. Pretty much whatever I give them has two syllables or less. And you can easy pronounce them. I don’t use hormones or antibiotics (I do give them inoculations against certain diseases that crop up around here from time-to-time).
Ever since I’ve been eating my own cattle, when I go to a restaurant, I get the trots pretty bad. So, I guess aside from HOW MUCH meat we eat (moderation, as with many things, is key), we also should pay attention to what they are raised on (kinds of grasses) and how they are raised (including the lack of stress I INSIST on for them here on the farm – stress makes the meat, well, terrible; I found this out when I “adopted” some cattle from people who did not take care of them and abused them, in fact).
Oh well, just my two cents’ worth… Always late to the party… So many GREAT responses, though! Wow!
If you can’t do veganism for any reason, I respect that. For some, it’s just not possible, but humans don’t *need* dairy, period. Also, You lost me at the implication that abortion is a bigger “sin” than using a sentient being for slave labor. Funny how those who accuse vegans of caring more about animals than humans don’t do shit to help either.
Completely off subject, but “Harvard educated” my ass.
What?!? Another vegan making personal attacks. No. It couldn’t be. After all, vegans are so compassionate and so well-nourished. They could never say an unkind word to anyone. :D
Let’s see, killing a clearly sentient human being the size of a lime is more morally justifiable than eating honey? Yea, I don’t think so.
It’s a shame that veganism didn’t work out for you, but please remember that it does work out for lots of happy, healthy people. This post is very damning and bias, and whilst I understand that this is your own experience, I think it is very irresponsible to damn the entire diet/philosophy when it works for so many others.
It’s so clearly not working for most of the vegans who have commented here … in spite of their claims to be thriving, they have acted like nasty, emotionally unbalanced people … that I feel even more confident about the conclusions of the articles.
I appreciate that you did not engage in personal attack. However, you are the exception to the rule among the comments I have received from vegans.
Utter Gibberish as usual. I have two very healthy teenage girls vegan for 2 years who have zero health issues, and are actually better on a vegan diet. But maybe you had become addicted to all the growth hormones, antibiotics and drugs in today’s meat and dairy? In which case, okay. You had to give in. Enjoy your Big Mac. Veganism is not just about animals. It just makes sense when the current subsidised meat and dairy system is unsustainable and is accelerating global warming and bringing in cancer for all. Which of course is what big pharma want. Myself? Never been happier, thinner or healthier since i went Vegan. I doesn’t work for everyone though and that’s ok. But why the need to make excuses?
I wish you people could understand how utterly off-putting your comments are. It doesn’t work for everyone, and there are MAJOR health risks of this diet, especially long-term. No offense but two years is not enough time to see just how much damage you may have done to your children. I don’t eat Big Macs, nor do I eat non-organic food. I stopped eating at McDonald’s years before I became vegan, because the food is utter shit. But you folks just go on not listening to a word that is said, making your assumptions and personal attacks. Because all you’re doing is further alienating the rest of the planet. Helping the animals? Not a chance.
Okay, I’ll be nice. So let me just say a) congratulations on at least trying a vegan diet, and b) congratulations on giving up McVomit beforehand, and c) congratulations on the move to organic. At least that’s something. However, you fail to mention all the antibiotics, growth hormones, and god knows what else in today’s meat and dairy (notice how people are getting taller and fatter each year?) Even the cattle woman acknowledged that at least. And before you say it’s not in organic, do some research. And quite besides which, even organic and free range animals end up in the same slaughter houses and are killed in the same vile way. Did you also know that the meat and dairy industry is subsidised by up to 40% by the government? Google that instead of trying to find any possible negative fact about veganism. My better half has been vegan for 20 years and seems to be still able to think and even stand up. So what are you talking about?
Yea you can do lifestyle gymnastics all day long, and contort yourself into a pretzel trying to avoid all the “threats” of this world. And it still won’t work. You’ll still have more threats that you failed to avoid.
Which is why these problems are never going to be solved by 3D logic. It’s not like you vegans have solved problems. You’re just moving them around. As long as the belief in death still remains, nothing has been solved.
Okay, I get it now. You are totally off your rocker in SanFran. Enough said. lol Bye-eee. ;) Mwa! Here’s a kiss for your tulips. x
(Yet another vegan personal attack deleted here – anyone else seeing a pattern here?)
Sorry, Tim, your personal attacks will not be published here.
Thank you so much for this article. It resonated with me on many levels.
I felt like you had read my mind because I experienced so many of the same symptoms. I was raw vegan for about 4 years and it just about killed me. So nice to see someone else has done the research and came to the same conclusions that I did. Now I am on the road to recovery, slowly but surely. Many blessings to you on your path :)
Hi Joseph, thanks for sharing your experience. How long have you been eating animal products again? I hope that I will be able to reverse all the damage I did to myself. And I hope you will, too :)
I have been eating raw milk products and raw eggs that I raise for about 5 months now. Just started taking freeze dried liver tablets about 2 months ago along with Green Pastures fermented cod liver oil/butter oil blend. I have made a few batches of grass fed beef jerky in my Excalibur dehydrator and just made a batch of pasture raised organic chicken jerky a couple weeks back. Still having a hard time incorporating meat into my diet hence the reason I take the liver tablets and cod liver blend. I have been all raw for 12 years and the last 4 of that was raw vegan so I believe I have a long way to go yet, lol. I feel better on many levels but rebuilding the adrenal fatigue seems to be the hardest :)
How about you what have you been trying to do that has helped you the most?
Hi Joseph,
Thanks for sharing your experience. How did you know you needed to make changes?
I think what I felt drawn to first is the most helpful. Fatty fish and eggs. I’m guessing that my omega 3 to 6 ratio was about as bad as it can get. And although I was supplementing B12, I had the symptoms of B12 deficiency. I’m guessing high homocysteine and terrible omega 3 to 6 ratio leading to horrific inflammation, both emotional and physical. Also exacerbated by low vitamin K2 and calcium. So I’m also eating Brie and Gouda, as well as grass fed butter and eggs.
Oh, and possibly the cholesterol from the eggs and meat is helping with … hormones. A lot of the emotional changes I’m experiencing may be due to my body being able to produce hormones more easily with cholesterol supplied.
Please keep us posted.
Angry personal attack from a vegan (what a surprise!)
Sorry Arash, your personal attacks will not be published here. It’s shocking to me that you all don’t realize you’re simply providing more proof for what I said in the articles about vegans’ anger and lack of compassion.
Arash, please stop characterizing what I “am” … I’ve published plenty of comments that disagree with me. Your last comment while somewhat improved is still personally attacking me and will not be published.
Answer me something please, is there ANY way to change your mind? I’ve left you “polite” fb messages on your posts, I am curious to see what you will say back to them.
Change my mind about what? I’m not changing my mind about a vegan diet. I feel a thousand times better since I quit it.
No not that, about leaving the word “Veganism” alone, and understanding that you were a strict Vegetarian AKA on a PLANT BASED diet and that it was your personal experience, if you do that then there will be credibility, claiming you were Vegan when you weren’t and claiming that Vegans are unhealthy when there are Vegan mothers, bodybuilders and athletes, is the reason you are getting a reaction from us, I my self am Vegan and I take no supplements, I do physical activities, I swim and I do full contact combat, I think you have something against Veganism.
I do not understand this argument from vegans. I was a vegan, a strict vegan. It was harming my health. Technically, I am still a vegan because I don’t harm animals to the extent “possible and practicable.” I don’t understand what you all think you are gaining by pretending that those of us who were vegan somehow were not vegan. It makes no sense to me whatsoever.
They’re intimidated by the idea that you were an ethical vegan because they’re threatened. They’ll do everything within their powers to delegitimize ex-vegans’ past in an attempt to convince themselves that ex-vegans “just weren’t doing it right.” If someone’s just a plant-based dieter – that’s alright by them, since to them plant-based dieters are selfish hedonists who weren’t in it for the right reasons.
Vegans, on the other hand, will never leave the cult, of course. How could they when veganism is everything that makes sense in this world? A real vegan will celebrate their veganniversary every year, avoid sugar processed with bone char, use vegan contraception methods, call their choice to go vegan “the best decision they’ve ever made”, spread animal abuse porn in outrage to everyone they know, and take loving selfies with farm animals over the weekends.
How could a person so dedicated and compassionate ever unlearn everything they so deeply believed in? Well, they simply must be plant-based dieters AKA total non-believers. There’s just no other explanation for it.
Ah yes, I see. Thank you for clearing that up!
And see I was indeed an ethical vegan, and under their definition I still am!
The uncomfortable fact for vegans is that it turns out to be false that most people can thrive without animal products. And then any sane, ethical person sees that compassion for humans must be factored into the equation.
My values haven’t changed at all. I still have the same values that led me to become an ethical vegan.
What changed was my understanding of the facts.
Yet another vegan claiming that because he is “healthy,” my article must be wrong.
And then launching into personal attacks. What a surprise!
Sorry Rodolfo, personal attacks won’t be published here. You might want to work on reading comprehension also (I recommend animal products) because I never said 80% of vegans are unhealthy. 80% of long-term vegans who don’t supplement are deficient in B12.
Well, you found your niche.
And in the vast mire that is the internet you cast your pebble waiting for the ripples to come back to your shore.
I have been a vegetarian/verging on vegan for over 40 years and I am in rude health, looking much younger and fitter than my contemporaries.
All the people venting their pent-up admiration at you are just people who could not keep up a plant-based diet and (like you) they are now seeking justifications.
There was obviously something very wrong with you before.
There still is.
Yes, there is something wrong with me. I am sane in an insane world where people abide by a vegan religion than addresses symptoms rather than root causes and pretend to be holier than thou. But hey it’s only one version of insanity. There are many others.
Erika, you keep mentioning that 80% of vegans have B12 deficiency. I don’t know where you found that information, but look at this, quite interesting:
“…In fact, many of my patients that are B12 deficient are following a Paleo diet where they eat meat 2-3 times a day…”
https://chriskresser.com/b12-deficiency-a-silent-epidemic-with-serious-consequences
….yes I know, the issue cannot be solved on a 3d level…
I don’t think 80 percent of meat eaters are B12 deficient.
And yes it won’t be solved with 3D logic…
It’s not hard to consume many animal products with low amounts of vitamin B12 as a Paleo dieter. A person who mainly eats chicken breast and conventional eggs isn’t going to have the same B12 levels as someone who regularly consumes whole wild-caught fish, chicken liver, and organic free-range eggs.
I found your post to be very interesting. I myself have been doing a plant based diet that could be considered vegan by ingredients but not by ideology. I basically do it for health reasons.
I occasionally eat wild caught fish and do consume raw honey and bee pollen etc. I found that a moderately plant based diet with little meat or animal products works for me.
I admire your independence and openess and hope you find health once again!!!!
Hi Lisa,
Thanks for sharing your experience. Just from everything I have read, it appears that some people can maintain a “mostly vegan” diet much longer than a strict vegan diet. Meaning that even making a few exceptions seems to make the diet far more sustainable.
In the absence of a major project reprogramming human DNA at the level of the subconscious mind, I think the best we can really do is encourage people to listen to their bodies and experiment to find what works best for each person.
Take care,
Erika
If you’re trying to be veganism’s enemy. that makes you my enemy, and therefore I shall react in a suitable way. On the other hand, if you intend to participate in a real discussion about health and also about morality, then we can go on with that.
I’m not fighting veganism. I see it as a hazard to human health, for most humans. I have provided plenty of logical argument while the philosophy fails, and nobody has revived it: https://erikaawakening.com/vegan-philosophy
You are running counter to so many studies into the vegan diet. If you are following a proper balanced vegan diet it is the healthiest thing for you body but it is also the compassionate thing to do. Many people are now developing allergies/sensitivities to things largely omnivores. I think that what you are trying to do is concentrating on the ‘How to attract money’ part of your life rather than considering the science, the compassion an planet sustainability.
False. There is absolutely no valid scientific study, as far as I know, establishing that a vegan diet is safe or healthy for most people. Every study done, as far as I know, was on a tiny group of SELF-SELECTING vegans. Even among those self-selecting vegans, there are widespread nutritional deficiencies. Including that 80% of long-term vegans are deficient in vitamin B12. And there is a ton of evidence that many of us cannot thrive on a vegan diet, because we abandon the diet in huge numbers. I explained the lack of any scientific study here:
https://erikaawakening.com/vegan-philosophy
Goodness what a load of nonsense, yours are false unsubstatiated statements designed to try to suit YOUR false arguments, no wonder true vegans are angry, a proper vegan diet doesn’t require taking loads of supplements, omnivores take supplements and have many, many health issues – obesity crisis? – that’ll be the vegans!
” And there is a ton of evidence that many of us cannot thrive on a vegan diet, because we abandon the diet in huge numbers.” – Tosh!
I will waste not more time on you because it’s a waste of my energy and as I have been vegan for 15 years you can imagine I have so little energy!
Forgive me in advance, Claire. You do indeed sound very angry.
I ate a “proper” vegan diet, and it was destroying my health. We are not all the same in genetics or physiology.
And anger is not a place to get stuck, because it doesn’t solve anything.
Let’s see … here are the facts. In people who don’t take vitamins (and keep in mind, some of these people may still be eating fortified foods) … low holotranscobalamin II “was found in 11% of the omnivores, 77% of the LV-LOV group, and 92% of the vegans.”
What’s more is that low B12 status leads to high homocysteine levels, which is devastating for human health. The symptoms I was having are consistent with having very high homocysteine despite that I was supplementing with B12.
But we won’t rely on my personal experience, because the facts are devastating for veganism: “Hyperhomocysteinemia (> 12 micromol/L) was present in 16% of the omnivores, 38% of the LV-LOV group, and 67% of the vegans.”
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12816782
LOL what a crybaby. Just another uninformed person who thought something sounded cool and decided to give it a go and thought they knew what they were doing. There are thousands. Not surprising. Someone tries to go on a vegan diet and experiences detox symptoms and gets scared and whines about a little pain and the unknown and then blames the food for their sorry eating habits of the past. Shocker.
Umm .. just … no
Um… just… true. I know people who have been vegan for more than 20 years, I know vegan kids, vegan teenagers who have followed vegan diet since they were born – all perfectly healthy. You were taking suplements and still had low levels of B12 and other vitamns? That’s science-fiction.
If you all are attempting to prove how well your brains are functioning on a vegan diet, the attempt is failing miserably.
Well, just to liven things up (as if you didn’t need it!), thought I would mention that Jesus said in Matthew 15:11 that it is not what a man eats that defiles him, but that which comes out of his mouth. Battling the Pharisees can be very tiring indeed! I myself was raw vegan for a year and a half, I realized I was losing much cognitive & bodily function, thanks to the “coffee bean man” test I found online. Ate some salmon, & immediately I could find the face amongst the beans! Underlying my obsession with the “right” diet ALL my life is an eating disorder brought about by a spiritual black hole……I worshipped the creation (although I do indeed honor the earth & all GOD has created) because I did not know the creator intimately. That has since been rectified, but my sanity about “food” is contingent on directing my main focus to Jesus on a daily basis….to practice His principles, read His word and believe He is with me always, even unto the end.
I never had any physical repercussions from making the choice to go vegan… Just because you write a long list of your {supposed} problems, does NOT make them fact! When people go vegan, they will see for themselves how it helps cleanse your body, and soul. Your choice to GO VEGAN is the right one for your body, your mind, and our environment! Animals lives matter too. Plus, animal agriculture is DESTROYING our environment… You CAN live far better, and feed FAR MORE people off a plant, grain, nut based diet….. But once you POLLUTE all of our water, Polluter our air, and destroy all of the beauty and balance that this earth has bestowed upon us… NOBODY, or NOTHING will live! The choice is yours…. But if you make the wrong one, ALL MAY SUFFER, and DIE!
Histrionics aside, just … no. Please read the new article.
https://erikaawakening.com/vegan-philosophy
Hello-
I feel like my symptoms – foggy headed ness, lazy, depression, anxiety, angry in the m
Hi Sierra, thanks for commenting. Did your comment cut off in the middle?
Sorry I accidently posted it-
I feel like my symptoms could be related to my diet- vegan- but I can’t will myself to eat animal products. I feel terrible when I even accidently consume them.
Hi Sierra, I had so internalized the vegan “philosophy” that the idea of eating meat was repulsive to me. However, when my health started to decline rapidly, I got over it. And now I can barely look at a vegetable.
Wow! Why are you so angry? I know a lot of very adjusted and realistic vegans. We are all too aware that we are killing by living. Many are not standing blindly on some moral highground but are trying to do the least harm. The basis of their choices is not some ‘feeling of guilt’ but compassion for other living beings. It’s a big difference. Also, everyone can find studies proving their viewpoint. You found yours. Well done. It doesn’t prove anything. You opened a tin of tuna and it felt so good? That radioactive, Mercury-poisoned tuna from a BPA lined tin? You suggest that to be healthier than veggies, legumes, nuts? Are you kidding me? And, yes agriculture kills a lot of insects; especially large scale farming. That kind of farming for crop grown to feed cows; “livestock”. Because while you might only eat organic grassfed cows most people do not. And yes, some very deficient and weak people can greatly benefit from animal products. Like broth, made from bones. And ~50 g of meat a few times a week would be more than sufficient, even for those people. Not a cheeseburger. Ever.
With all due respect, I don’t claim to know you personally, therefore nothing personal. I am just wondering what you think about experiential truth? Because you had a bad experience with veganism, is therefore veganism and eating vegan wrong – not just for you – but for everybody? Saying that nobody can thrive on a vegan diet, while the evidence points much to the contrary (including millions worldwide), is at the very least disingenuous. Remember that veganism lasts a lifetime and is not a fad diet, so there are obviously people who have been vegan 10, 20, and 30+ years without the ill health you describe. How do you justify this (without calling them idiots, brain-deceived, brainwashed, or telling them that suicide is a better option when simply talking about the effects on the body)?
It’s not just that I’m certain many if not most people cannot thrive on the diet … there is no evidence to the contrary, as explained in this article: https://erikaawakening.com/vegan-philosophy-collapses-contradictions-hypocrisy/
As well, due to the overwhelming hypocrisy and contradiction of the vegan philosophy, I no longer see it as an idea worth striving for …
At some point, I may write a new article about how these problems like factory farming can possibly addressed with 4D and higher means. They will not be solved by 3D logic.
I have just read your article at 1:30am with a very functional brain!
As far as philosophy goes, veganism does not deem itself to be extreme. It is portrayed that way, because – and this is where you’re right – many people are unwilling to accept the challenges of the vegan ethic, such as getting rid of their expensive leather boots and “never eating cheese again”. Losing these things, for them, is extreme in exchange for holding up their moral compass to the mirror.
The least extreme way to end violence is to stop directly participating in it. The cases you cite, which are familiar to vegans, such as killing insects and rodents in farming grains or using laptops and driving cars over roads with animal remains inside are inevitable aspects of our lives – ones we did not choose ourselves which lie out of the realm of control over our own consciences.
Human beings desire to stay alive, as does any other animal, so killing ourselves over that which we cannot control in our own lives is extreme behavior. Similarly, killing others with intent is extreme behavior. Veganism, as just one aspect of nonviolence, is thus the middle way.
Human beings need to start treating each other better and refrain from harming each other intentionally. That is also nonviolence. Human animals, with their distinguished features in creating a system which no other animals are capable of, should indeed procreate and teach their children a middle way, including veganism as a premise.
I see no qualms with calling oneself vegan, with the above noted.
On the nutrition side, as I’m sure you know, whether a person is vegan or an omnivore, they need ALA omega-3’s (abundant in flaxseed, chia seed, hempseed, and walnuts, to name a few) which the body synthesizes into DHA and EPA omegas. Not all bodies are created equally, though, and some have a harder time converting ALA to DHA or EPA, regardless of whether animal products are consumed or not. If in doubt, a supplement can’t hurt for either proponent of his/her diet.
I’m not sure if this came through last night, so I will post again. Sorry if it doubled up:
I have just read your article at 1:30am with a very functional brain!
As far as philosophy goes, veganism does not deem itself to be extreme. It is portrayed that way, because – and this is where you’re right – many people are unwilling to accept the challenges of the vegan ethic, such as getting rid of their expensive leather boots and “never eating cheese again”. Losing these things, for them, is extreme in exchange for holding up their moral compass to the mirror.
The least extreme way to end violence is to stop directly participating in it. The cases you cite, which are familiar to vegans, such as killing insects and rodents in farming grains or using laptops and driving cars over roads with animal remains inside are inevitable aspects of our lives – ones we did not choose ourselves which lie out of the realm of control over our own consciences.
Human beings desire to stay alive, as does any other animal,omegas TVlling ourselves over that which we cannot control in our own lives is extreme behavior. Similarly, killing others with intent is extreme behavior. Veganism, as just one aspect of nonviolence, is thus the middle way.
Human beings need to start treating each other better and refrain from harming each other intentionally. That is also nonviolence. Human animals, with their distinguished features in creating a system which no other animals are capable of, should indeed procreate and teach their children a middle way, including veganism as a premise.
I see no qualms with calling oneself vegan, with the above noted.
On the nutrition side, as I’m sure you know, whether a person is vegan or an omnivore, they need ALA omega-3’s (abundant in flaxseed, chia seed, hempseed, and walnuts, to name a few) which the body synthesizes into DHA and EPA omegas. Not all bodies are created equally, though, and some have a harder time converting ALA to DHA or EPA, regardless of whether animal products are consumed or not. If in doubt, a supplement can’t hurt for either proponent of his/her diet.
Killing is killing. Creating a strange religion of pretend moral purity because you don’t put the dead bees, fish, birds, rodents, snakes etc in your mouth is in persuasive.
Furthermore, the nutritional info you are giving is misleading and/or false. Humans are notoriously poor converters of ALA and some cannot convert it at all. It is basically impossible to achieve an optimal omega 3 to 6 balance on a vegan diet even for the highest converters.
Please see my prior article about why so many vegans are so angry before commenting further. This false vegan nutrition claim about ALA was debunked there.
The third paragraph should read: “Human beings desire to stay alive, as does any other animal, therefore killing oneself over that which we cannot control in our own lives is extreme behavior.”
Bullshit. Vegans can control lots more than they pretend. They can eat less, curtail all unnecessary activities, cease procreation entirely. They are not doing this because they have drawn arbitrary moral lines in a cult-like religion that makes no sense, is dangerous to human health, and logically indefensible.
Yes, I have read your story about why vegans are so angry. The wrong types of people have surrounded you, apparently. I’m not angry, but rather curious about this whole issue you’re going through. So let’s start with that – fresh faces, whether vegan or not.
“Killing is killing. Creating a strange religion of pretend moral purity because you don’t put the dead bees, fish, birds, rodents, snakes etc in your mouth is in persuasive.”
Killing is not killing. I believe the law has established that there are different degrees of murder and even manslaughter; there is self-defense and accidents and crimes of passion and instability. There is suicide. (We are in your playing field now, as an ex-lawyer, so I won’t have to elaborate). Each incident carries its own weight, but murder carries the most weight. Animals killed for human consumption are purposefully murdered – that is, their lives are premeditated from the time they are born to the time they leave the earth to be an asset to the human pleasure palate. Killing mice and other insects in the name of sustaining oneself is akin or closest to manslaughter: an unintentional harm – what vegans mean by ‘when possible and practical’ to clear that up. Should it happen? No. Does it happen? Inevitably. Does that mean we should trade murder for manslaughter? Absolutely not. Sometimes animals die, and sometimes humans die. Whether this is a force we can control, to which point I will shortly get to, is the baseline for the vegan movement.
Since when is refraining from murder an attribute of personal purity? I just have to ask for your opinion on that one, also.
“Bullshit. Vegans can control lots more than they pretend. They can eat less, curtail all unnecessary activities, cease procreation entirely. They are not doing this because they have drawn arbitrary moral lines in a cult-like religion that makes no sense, is dangerous to human health, and logically indefensible.”
If murder is a crime, it makes no difference if you buy the animal products in their cute little packages and pretend it wasn’t premeditated – that still was the case. You have complete control over that. To cease all activities that might harm another, including yourself, has nothing to do with veganism. I am interested in how you respond to the point about human beings feeling the desire to stay alive as a biological imperative. Vegans do not feel their lives are more or less worthy than other animals and other humans, but equal (that’s the entire point). Harming oneself, as the person posting as Harvey below so blatantly pointed out, is indeed a harm within itself. It is not lesser just because the human decided to harm his/herself. (The ego can have a lot of fun with this one).
How are these lines arbitrary? Intentional and unintentional are antonymous for no reason other than they are what they are. If you want to believe, of course, that a person intended to drive on a road containing hog remains because they make a better road or chose their laptop because they were getting a good deal on the animal parts inside, you can continue to believe that. Actually, vegans go out of their way to distinguish these lines, because 1) animals are still property in the law and nobody can change that but vegans and 2) so that unintentional harms can be highlighted and eventually curtailed. So, an anecdote: I live in the tattoo industry and own a vegan tattoo studio. Before vegans demanded them, there were no such products such as animal-free tattoo inks, aftercare ointments and most importantly, stencil carbon paper. The paper contained lanolin and nobody knew how to create a vegan version of the stencil paper before Reprofx had a great idea – hey, let’s get out scientists together to experiment and create a version without lanolin. Et viola! There only vegan stencil paper now exists on planet earth, made by a company who have enough fucks to do some experimentation and not exploit animals in the process. That is how unintentional “I have no choice” harm becomes a lesser harm.
Lastly, if you want to say that veganism is a cult with no logic or premise, then I urge you to re-read this before commenting, as you have requested of others. And please, give as much attention to detail and in as much length as I have. Hey, it’s only fair!
Yes, I have read your story about why vegans are so angry. The wrong types of people have surrounded you, apparently. I’m not angry, but rather curious about this whole issue you’re going through. So let’s start with that – fresh faces, whether vegan or not.
“Killing is killing. Creating a strange religion of pretend moral purity because you don’t put the dead bees, fish, birds, rodents, snakes etc in your mouth is in persuasive.”
Killing is not killing. I believe the law has established that there are different degrees of murder and even manslaughter; there is self-defense and accidents and crimes of passion and instability. There is suicide. (We are in your playing field now, as an ex-lawyer, so I won’t have to elaborate). Each incident carries its own weight, but murder carries the most weight. Animals killed for human consumption are purposefully murdered – that is, their lives are premeditated from the time they are born to the time they leave the earth to be an asset to the human pleasure palate. Killing mice and other insects in the name of sustaining oneself is akin or closest to manslaughter: an unintentional harm – what vegans mean by ‘when possible and practical’ to clear that up. Should it happen? No. Does it happen? Inevitably. Does that mean we should trade murder for manslaughter? Absolutely not. Sometimes animals die, and sometimes humans die. Whether this is a force we can control, to which point I will shortly get to, is the baseline for the vegan movement.
Since when is refraining from murder an attribute of personal purity? I just have to ask for your opinion on that one, also.
“Bullshit. Vegans can control lots more than they pretend. They can eat less, curtail all unnecessary activities, cease procreation entirely. They are not doing this because they have drawn arbitrary moral lines in a cult-like religion that makes no sense, is dangerous to human health, and logically indefensible.”
If murder is a crime, it makes no difference if you buy the animal products in their cute little packages and pretend it wasn’t premeditated – that still was the case. You have complete control over that. To cease all activities that might harm another, including yourself, has nothing to do with veganism. I am interested in how you respond to the point about human beings feeling the desire to stay alive as a biological imperative. Vegans do not feel their lives are more or less worthy than other animals and other humans, but equal (that’s the entire point). Harming oneself, as the person posting as Harvey below so blatantly pointed out, is indeed a harm within itself. It is not lesser just because the human decided to harm his/herself. (The ego can have a lot of fun with this one).
How are these lines arbitrary? Intentional and unintentional are antonymous for no reason other than they are what they are. If you want to believe, of course, that a person intended to drive on a road containing hog remains because they make a better road or chose their laptop because they were getting a good deal on the animal parts inside, you can continue to believe that. Actually, vegans go out of their way to distinguish these lines, because 1) animals are still property in the law and nobody can change that but vegans and 2) so that unintentional harms can be highlighted and eventually curtailed. So, an anecdote: I live in the tattoo industry and own a vegan tattoo studio. Before vegans demanded them, there were no such products such as animal-free tattoo inks, aftercare ointments and most importantly, stencil carbon paper. The paper contained lanolin and nobody knew how to create a vegan version of the stencil paper before Reprofx had a great idea – hey, let’s get out scientists together to experiment and create a version without lanolin. Et viola! There only vegan stencil paper now exists on planet earth, made by a company who have enough fucks to do some experimentation and not exploit animals in the process. That is how unintentional “I have no choice” harm becomes a lesser harm.
Lastly, if you want to say that veganism is a cult with no logic or premise, then I urge you to re-read this before commenting, as you have requested of others. And please, give as much attention to detail and in as much length as I have. Hey, it’s only fair! :)
Humans have been omnivores for eons. It is our natural diet. We could argue on and on about whether killing is killing. In short, the vegan philosophy boils down to “my form of killing is okay but yours is not.”
The entire philosophy still fails in that there is absolutely no evidence that most or even a significant percentage of humans can thrive on a vegan diet. So forcing people to adopt it is equivalent to harming humans. And sorry, that is not a solution to anything.
You folks are going to have to accept one of these days that nobody is going to solve this with 3D logic, hypocritical religions, and linear thinking. There is another answer, and while you remain steadfastly attached to a strategy that is not working, you will never see it. Gotta go, I have other things to take care of in my life.
Take a look at the new article – https://erikaawakening.com/vegan-philosophy
Even if I could eat a vegan diet without getting sick, which I can’t … I no longer have any desire to do so. The philosophy has collapsed for me. These problems won’t get solved with 3D logic.
Touche. You didn’t answer to any, zero, none of my questions in great detail, which leads me to believe that “my” logic is getting in the way of “your” logic.
Anyhow, humans have been vegetarians and omnivores at alternate points, and the human body is extremely great at adaptation. 10,000 years ago, people would not be able to digest a Twinkie.
If killing is not killing, as described before, then using your ‘4D’ plan will not suit the problem as you obviously see it – i.e. creating sustainable factory farms or whatever you propose, holds only face value without addressing the problem.
That you address them as a problem makes you a candidate for ex-ex-veganism.
Actually, I’m just more interested in getting on to other things. Killing is killing. Trying to maintain a false purity and “holier than thou” attitude because you didn’t put the dead things in your mouth goes nowhere. But given that a global vegan diet would, in my opinion, be devastating to human health … there isn’t any point in slicing hairs. Speaking of which, you haven’t addressed the arguments in new post: https://erikaawakening.com/vegan-philosophy-collapses-contradictions-hypocrisy/
A 4D solution would go beyond all of it. Sustainable factory farms is 3D logic.
Yes, I read and responded to your other article / arguments in my post beginning with “I just read your article at 1:30am with a very functional brain!” It wasn’t as black and white as paraphrasing what you wrote and responding, but perhaps you can go back and read this. I have fully addressed you, including procreation, intentional and unintentional (“practical & possible” in veganism equates to unintentional harm), and suicide, using the value of extremism as it is clear that extremism is what you imply vegans should opt for to be optimal vegans – except for the health aspects, which we can save for a rainy day!
However, in this response, I notice you regress back to the notion of “killing is killing” and “personal purity” which I refuted as well. As an ex-lawyer, how do you respond to the different types of killing recalled and the dilemma of murder vs. manslaughter in terms of killing animals? How do you respond to the question of not murdering as associated with personal purity?
Thanks.
I feel that I’ve made my position and where I strike the balance quite clear in the last article. I have nothing more to add.
!!IDEA!!!
If you can use your tapping to defy biology and make your body live forever, then why not teach everyone how to use tapping to correct nutritional deficiencies so that they no longer have to eat dead animals??
It should be much easier than living forever! Should be a piece of cake, in comparison.
Sorry hun, you’re going to have to learn to think holistically here, and to let go of outcomes. You can add that to the mix but if you try to force that outcome, you’ll miss the boat entirely. And if you keep the end game of death, then you have also missed the boat. The method doesn’t work the way you want it to work, it works the way God says it will work. These are things I had to learn along the way. And if anyone thinks I’m taking this project on without massive support, they can forget it. I’ll just keep eating meat.
Lol. This website can’t be serious. You say vegans sound crazy. Lol. Bitch you are the motherfucking queen of nuts.
Thank you Rachel for demonstrating exactly what I stated in the article :)
Erika awakening, sounds like you just turned in to a selfish, judgemental bitch. Some people just have higher levels of empathy. My levels of empathy are higher than my craving for a cheese burger. Just stop talking. You gave up veganism, good for you. But to bad mouth other vegans for being hypocrites is hypocrisy in itself. If you never got deep enough into the vegan diet or ‘religion’, as you so stupidly call it, for you to understand enough, or you were too dumb to eat the right foods for your body, that is no one else’s fault but your own. Stop making petty excuses. Sounds like you’re trying to convince yourself it was a good idea. Can anybody say: shallow, selfish, cruel, and from your replies: really detestable.
Selina, I just have no words. So I’ve published yours, as everyone will see exactly what I mean about angry, judgmental vegans who have zero compassion.
Yeah, she did. What Rachel said was totally uncalled for. But to say ‘vegans are angry’ because of what SOME vegans do, is bigotry. It’s exactly the same as saying ‘blacks are violent’ because SOME blacks are violent, see?
I’ve been around vegans for longer than you’ve been alive, and the ONLY time I’ve EVER seen them act like that was when people just didn’t ‘get it’ and continued to support cruelty. OK, so they got angry. If you understood compassion towards animals, you’d understand why they felt frustrated and even angry at the enormity of the problem, and frustrated by the behaviors of people who seem to just not care, and continue adding to the problem. So as I said before, cut us a little slack for reacting in frustration or anger sometimes. Remember that it’s a REACTION to meat-eaters, NOT a constant state of being as you seem to imply.
Having said that, basically acknowledging that SOME vegans might get angry SOMEtimes, that is completely irrelevant. Why? Because the comment above, made by Rachel, is exactly the SAME type of comment that is seen on internet discussions all the time. It’s well known that people tend to act much nastier on the internet than they do in real life, because they can hide behind their avatars.
Furthermore, surely I don’t need to point out that, duh, meat-eaters act that way too?
I mean seriously, if you’ve ever participated in any other discussions/debates you will know that MANY people, most of them meat-eaters, quickly resort to flinging insults when they can’t think of anything better to say. It’s common knowledge and has NOTHING – absolutely NOTHING – to do with whether they are vegan or not!
To conclude that common internet behavior has ANYTHING to do with diet, is faulty logic and simply ridiculous. To make blanket statements about an entire group of people based on flippant comments they make in the heat of an internet discussion is just absurd, not to mention doing the very thing you accuse us of doing.
Sorry you’re not going to persuade me on that one. As if to put an exclamation point on it, I woke up to more nasty comments from vegans.
But that’s not what I’m basing it on. I’ve been in tons of Facebook groups for lots of different topics, and was in several Facebook vegan groups with thousands and thousands of people. NEVER in my entire life have I seen a group so consistently nasty as vegans. And that was when I was still a vegan! YES, because vegans were also nasty to each other. And repeatedly showed an inability to process logical arguments at even the most simple level.
So while it’s not a scientific study, it’s consistent with the scientific studies showing these widespread deficiencies.
And I don’t care how much vegans think their anger is justified. I get anger, and it can even be valuable as a transitional thing. These people are STUCK IN ANGER. Which has rendered them impotent. Because nobody wants to hear their rants when that’s all they ever do. And anger is blinding them to finding solutions that would actually work.
I stand by what I’ve written. I’ve never seen an angrier, nastier group of people in my entire life. And this is based on observation of thousands.
Thousands? I seriously doubt that, but I’ll leave that for now.
Bottom line is this: Even IF you are right that vegans tend to be angrier than the general population, that does NOT prove your theory that it’s because of deficiency. There is another, more plausible reason: Because our hearts have opened to compassion and now it is frustrating to see people close their hearts and their minds to the holocaust that is going on.
At the end of the day, I’d rather be accused of being angry at injustice, than for being an actual perpetrator of that injustice.
I would love to see a study on it … and it’s true I can merely draw inferences from what I’ve observed, what others have observed, and the existing research … plus of course intuition.
But no, I don’t buy that it’s just that hearts have opened. In fact, I found that my heart and most of the vegans I knew had hearts that shut down. And yes, the images and belief system shared in the community are trauma triggering, etc.
That still doesn’t justify the anger. It was tapping my “waking up every day angry” that led me to do the nutritional research. And after I started eating fatty fish again, I noticed a huge emotional shift very quickly.
The problems I see haven’t changed, but my attitude about them has changed. My ability to see the situation objectively has changed. And I believe if vegans would simply get themselves nourished, that their perspective also would change. And the anger would go. And maybe, just maybe, they’d start getting more creative and realize that protest signs aren’t going to solve a damn thing.
We are NOT malnourished! That’s just preposterous. I never wake up angry and I don’t know of any vegans who do. Maybe YOU woke up angry, but that is NOT representative of most of us.
So…your solution to the world’s problems is to close your mind to cruelty-free solutions, and instead, just go back to contributing to the problem?
How many times do I need to repeat myself? Veganism is not solving anything. Most people are too sane even to consider a diet that would harm their health. The rest of us become ex-vegans. Vegans who can be healthy on the diet will remain a tiny minority. What has this solved?
I have tools that can achieve higher level solutions. Why would I continue doing lifestyle gymnastics, living in prison essentially, for a diet that is killing me? Especially when I realize it’s doing absolutely zero good in the world … I’ll wait for you all to decide you actually want the problem solved :D
I’m surprised, Erika. Surely you can see that your poor logic skills would never work in a court room right?
You just completely ignored my points, only to repeat yourself.
Here, I’ll spell it out for you:
1. Your observations were based on internet discussions about a very volatile topic. Take any group of rational, calm, happy Democrats and put them in a room with conservative Republicans, and let’s see how happy they all are an hour later. To conclude after they debate for an hour that ‘Democrats are all angry’ or ‘Republicans are all angry’ is absurd. No, they were just angry WHILE they were debating the adversary!
Your conclusion that vegans are angry is completely baseless.
2. Today, I cut off a woman to whom I’d been giving antioxidant water, for her pain. Why? Because she was caught drinking sodas. She clearly made her choice to stay in pain. She rejected the solution that was right in front of her nose, and prefers to continue complaining about her pain. Likewise, you have repeatedly rejected my offer of solutions…you could have listened to the Dr. Cousens/Mercola interview several times over by now, in the time it has taken you to reply. The fact that you would rather contribute to cruelty, rather than be open to cruelty-free solutions, says a lot.
Nothing you’ve offered is a solution. What I have could be a solution. As I see it, vegans are choosing to remain in pain. Hopelessly engaged in a Sisyphean “mission” that is doomed to failure. I prefer to keep my sights on solutions that could actually work.
Also, correlation doesn’t equal causation. If most of your experience with vegans has been in online discussion forums, or at animal activism events, that is NOT a fair assessment, because there is another variable introduced: the animal activism topic.
Surely you’ve had the experience of feeling happy, and then some unpleasant news put a damper on your good mood? Don’t judge vegans’ moods when they’re talking about animal abuse!
The fixation on animal abuse is, IMO, not healthy. Nor is it helping anyone. And see, with an under-nourished brain, I was fixated on it too. Yet the animal agriculture problem is massive. 70 billion animals, and I believe that’s just on land. So if you’re going to be angry and stuck in 3D logic, you’re going to be angry forever. It’s not helping. The only way I see to get such a massive problem solved is by reprogramming the subconscious mind. And for that, the first thing you do is clear anger, because anger is in the way of any real solution arising. When I did this for myself, it led me intuitively to the research and then to start eating fatty fish again. Then, my mind and emotions cleared and I was able to see clearly that not only was a vegan diet killing me, it also was not helping anyone. And so I steadfastly await the moment when people are willing to explore new solutions. I already have the healing method, but this project is too big for me. It will require massive amounts of support, and people with skills I don’t have. In the meantime, I will maintain my own cognitive functioning and health by consuming animal products.
‘Fixation on animal abuse is not healthy’?? Wow, it really sounds like you don’t care about animal abuse. Then you’ve never been a vegan.
LOL … oh please … we were managing to have an intelligent conversation. Let’s not fall back on cliched vegan standbys :)
So now you’re judging my solution without even knowing what it is??? WOW
You are falling back on cliched meat-eater standbys “oh vegans are angry and malnourished”
Anyway whether I did or not, I do make good points, many of which you have ignored.
Because everything you are suggesting is 3D logic and won’t work. So how about we table this discussion until you feel interested in going beyond 3D logic?
You can’t have it both ways. You can’t say “oh vegans are malnourished” and cite some science, then refuse to look at refutation of that.
You talk about ‘going beyond 3D logic’ but don’t want to go beyond 3D diet! and even advocate going BACKWARDS to caveman diet!
That’s not evolving. That’s DEVO!
Trying to solve anything at the level of diet is sooooo 3D
LOL which part of ‘3D logic is not going to work’ was not clear?
You really don’t get it do you? Veganism was never about diet. It was always about freeing the oppressed.
You’re oppressing humans by imposing an unnatural diet on them. And therein lies the rub …
I don’t know of ANY vegans who feel oppressed! That’s absurd!
Quite the contrary; people who go vegan usually notice increased energy and vitality, and heightened awareness. Maybe you are an exception. ;)
Do you believe that humans can evolve? I thought you did, with a name like ‘Awakening.’
84% of vegans and vegetarians go back to eating meat. It’s perfectly okay if a very small minority of people want to follow a vegan lifestyle because that’s what they want to do. As a social justice movement, it’s not going anywhere. Because it’s oppressive to the vast majority of the human race. And that is what vegans will have to come to terms with, at a higher level of consciousness where transformation can happen … IF they want it to be anything beyond a tiny minority lifestyle. If they actually want animals freed. 3D solutions are not going to work. The very belief in death would have to be uprooted.
Monica,
Completely laughable. I have not seen a single vegan here (so far — I still have a lot of these posts to read) or anywhere else claim that vegans can live without these dietary supplements. That alone is all the admission anyone needs to prove beyond any doubt that vegans are malnourished. If you aren’t malnourished on your diet you do not need supplements and you do not develop the “beer gut” that is the number one sign of malnourishment in Americans and starving African children alike. The primary cause of this “beer belly” is too many carbohydrates and not enough necessary nutrients. I was raised vegetarian (not vegan) and remain so to this day. I live around many such. I know that in these people (as well as among most omnivores) carbs and other fillers are used way too much, and not as God intended since the source of these carbs is bleached white enriched flour instead of whole grains. Then you end up getting other reactionary aberations which have ruined the health of many, such as the Atkins diet, trying to correct one imbalance by replacing it with a worse imbalance.
I don’t think the Atkins diet has actually killed anyone yet (though I am not 100% positive of this either), but I know it has nearly killed some people. I don’t know Dr. Atkins is (or was) a nut case — a well educated nut case, but a nut case just the same or if that was simply people who followed his studies and twisted them to serve their own purposes. Seeing the problems caused by too much refined carbs he (or his followers) decided in spite of a considerable body of existing evidence to the contrary that the body does not need carbs and all carbs are bad. As a result when this diet was such a huge fad 10 years ago it was being taught as a carb free diet and it ruined the health of some people. Because a reasonably healthy human body is a resillient and resourceful thing most people who followed this very unhealthy diet did not notice any obviously adverse effects of this diet. This does not mean those adverse effects were not there. You simply had to look much deeper at the biochemical level to find them, and as a rule the studies on various diets do not go to that much trouble or expense. And because so many of the practioners and pushers of this diet were apparently very healthy and had a vested interest in “proving” the validity of the diet they were just as willfully ignorant of the evidence proving the contrary as are the vegans giving poor Erika such a hard time, and just as determined to “prove” by their personal empirical evidence that this stuff really works.
Here is the thing about empirical evidence, something that one guy I argued this with refused to ever understand when he constantly insisted statistical evidence is shoddy and useless and empirical evidence is the only truth in existence: Everything can be proven by empirical evidence. Empirical evidence means you can point to at least one actual occurrence of something. It means that given stimulus A response B is possible.
Now compare that with statistical evidence. The latter samples a population at random. The larger the sample the more valid the results, but no statistical sample ever 100% matches the population from which it is pulled. Then when stimulus A is given to each member of that sample the response to that stimulus is recorded and compared to all the other responses of the sample. We then learn that 75% of all respondents give response B, 10% give response C, 8% give response D, 3% give response E, 1% gives response F, and the remaining 3% give responses G, H, I, J, K, L, M, N, O and P, or however the numbers work out. Or we may find that in a sample of 1000 people 999 give response C and only one gave response B. This become hilarious when the guy giving response B insists that the 100% truth is his response, everyone else is 100% wrong and would be much better off doing things his way. While it is possible for the one to be closer to the truth than for the 999 it is very rare for these things to be absolute right and absolute wrong. If the 999 are all doing something the exact same way instead of 100 different ways it is likely that the one is much more wrong than everyone else, yet it is empirically clear that his response is possible. Not very many vocal vegans get this. I’m sure some of the silent majority do, but they aren’t the ones making fools of themselves here while trying to prove everyone else is the real fool.
That covers your logic which is considerably worse than you are accusing Erika’s logic of being. Then there is your morality which has been an even bigger part of this thread. It is made up, just as Erika said. You may not have been the one who made it up, but since you have provided no more proof of it than your own seriously flawed logic it may as well have been made up by you, and you alone.
According to man’s definitions God (or nature) determines morality, and legality and the king (in an absolute monarchy) or the majority (in a democracy) or the majority governmental faction (in a republic or constitutional monarchy) determines legality. Anything else is made up, and I have not seen you present any evidence other than your own opinion for your morality. Thus your morality is made up.
Somewhere in this thread Erika told you that she has recently learned that only God’s opinion really matters in anything. This is something God forced me to learn about 15 years ago. Under this system God determines what is legal and there is no difference between legal and moral. God’s written law is rather sketchy on most things and is written in symbolism anyway, so even the stuff that appears very clear at first glance usually has a much broader and very less clear meaning (Numbers 12:6-9). I do not claim that the Bible is the only valid word of God. Too much the Bible says on the matter proves very definitively that it is not, but that it is only the bread. Every word includes all creation, and as a result I have known a great many atheists who have a better understanding of God (because they observe a much greater portion of his word, and live by it) than so-called Christians. So I won’t fuss too much if you don’t cite any religious writings in your “proofs” of your morality, but if those writings which are in some way a revelation of God and his character are considerably different from what you and your “authorities” have come up with, are considerably different from your opinion (and they are) guess which ones I will side with.
Now combining the morality thing with the empirical evidence thing. Don’t waste too much breath trying to convince me of something. I’ve see the source of most of what you claim, and mostly that source is you. There is no authority there. Yet empirical evidence does exist for what you claim, and I can find plenty of empirical evidence to agree with it if I want to prove you right or I can find just as much or more empirical evidence to prove you wrong if I should decide I don’t want to see things your way or simply want to get under your skin and make you even more angry than you already are at Erika (she is right about that and you enjoy making it very obvious.)
No human will ever convince any other human of anything they are not willing to be convinced of; only God has that power and he tells us that he will put blinders on people at will. We all suffer from some form of blindness and God put it on us. Where he has blinded me (or you or Erika) to something no one but God will be able to remove those blinders. He has removed Erika’s blinders to the dangers of this diet; for whatever reason he has not removed yours.
This blindness and the fact that it is God who has placed it on us is a major theme of the entire book of Isaiah, so I won’t give a lot of quotes about it. Single verses cherry picked to “prove” what I believe don’t prove much anyway. Christians ignore these anytime they wish, cherry-picking their own verses to prove mine wrong, and ignoring everything else God says on the subject. I’ll just say, “go study if you really care to know what it really says.”
Just don’t forget that in Ezekiel 14:1-11 God tells us that if we approach any study with preconceived ideas (he calls them idols of the heart) we will find only the answers we are seeking, not the actual truth, and he says he is responsible for that too.
You will only find truth when you are willing to look at every side (not only two sides) of every issue, and take into consideration all the facts. Mostly Erika has done that, but because of the stupidity, hypocrisy and general nastiness of the most vocal vegans, who speak great words of empathy and love, but NEVER show either one, whether for themselves, for other people or even for the animals they use as their excuse for their hatred and loathing of the majority of God’s creation, Erika has a hard time hearing any of what many of you say, and she loathes you to the point that she also loathes vegetables in their purist forms (she still eats the buns :P). That is a pretty serious reaction to you people, but it is a rather understandable reaction.
I have heard of many preachers and other Christians, who when they first begin to learn to hear God’s voice for themselves first hear him say, “How many people have you driven away from me today?” They have the same spirit of hypocrisy that caused Mahatma Gandhi to say, “I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians; they are so unlike your Christ.” You vegans, like Christians, have so much good stuff to share with the world. You vegans, like Christians, have so much hypocrisy and blindness and hatred of all of God’s creation, and though these things are so obvious to everyone else you are so blind to them you cannot even acknowledge the possibility that any of it exists in you.
“But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites, because you shut off the kingdom of heaven from people; for you do not enter in yourselves, nor do you allow those who are entering to go in. Matthew 23:13.
Jesus said to them, “If you were blind, you would have no sin; but since you say, ‘We see,’ your sin remains.” John 9:41
Thank you Erika Awakening and ROBIN MCDANIEL ! vegan, non-vegan, carnist or something like that! I’m a human being and I love stories! Your story are so fun and full of passion! I’m right no I’m right! How fun is this! How beautiful mirrors you are!
Now it’s my turn to say that
I am THE CENTER OF THE UNIVERSE!
And you are TOO!
Becuase universe is unlimited so every point is the Center!
And I’m having an experience, what kind of experience I choose to have is my choice! and yours too!
Are you a part of a group that are passionate about live veganism for ethical reason! Perfect it’s your experience!
I’m living and I’m passionate about having the best experience of life possible! And I’m doing eft and the level5mentoring!
I think I’m wiser then you? Of course and you think I’m less wiser then you of course!
There is no difference from me and you even if I’m clearly the center of the Universe and you are my mirrors and you are where I need you to be!
I remember how the mind can make up opposite stories and make them so good that they seemed always right! it’s amazing!!!!!!
I can choose to change the story that I say in one second!! And you can do too!
Erika Awakening changed her story about veganism and the “so called group of veganist” felt angry with her!
For me Erika Awakening is fun and really a wonderful mirror and also Robin Macdaniel, but the “truth” for me is that Erika Awakening can do whatever she wants and believes in whatever she wants and the same goes with Robin!
I love them both because they remember me freedom and past experience!
Have a nice day
Giulio Wakeup
Thanks Giulio. You may notice, we are in the process of collapsing a false duality here in service of healing … there is a method behind the madness.
Seriously? You are like a walking cliche. What you and your other Erika lovers don’t seem to get is that it is not OK to do “whatever you want.” Let’s take your philosophy and apply it to child molesters, murderers, domestic violence, or any other horrible abuse that exists in society. Should the people who perpetuate these acts also be able to “do whatever they want?” Currently, our laws do not protect farm animals from abuse. In the slaughterhouses and dairy farms from which you now get your meat, horrible abuses are happening every day to sentient beings. You suggest we should just ignore that and allow people to make the “choice” to eat meat, cause unfathomable harm to animals, and destroy the environment? Well then, I suggest you also agree that it is ok for someone to murder a human if they so choose, correct? We do not hold dominion over animals. We do not have a right to take their life. There is no two sides to this. That is a truth. What is also a truth is that 65 billion animals die every year so you can eat a bloody steak. Most of them are murdered as babies. If you saw someone on the street beating a dog, would you step in to help? Beating it to death..slicing it throat..maybe tossing it into a pot of boiling water. Would you step in to help? If you would for a dog, how can you justify killing and eating other animals this way? If you would not eat a dog or cat, how can you justify eating other animals that are just as intelligent and want to live just as much? The problem is, non-vegans cannot “see” these animals. They only see them as things. Do you see your dog or cat as a thing? If your house was burning down, and they were stuck inside, what would you do? Be honest? Would you grieve their loss? Who grieves the loss of the 65 billion animals that die each year? I will tell you who..vegans. They are not things…they are not disposable.
Robin, are you and other vegans undergoing mandatory sterilization so as not to bring any more humans into this world to harm animals? Have you reduced your caloric intake to the bare minimum of survival? Have you stopped eating almonds and all other bee killing crops?
You know Erika, you go to the extremes because you have no place else to go with this. For instance, the way you suggest suicide or sterilization to people at the drop of a hat (or comment you do not like). The whole thing is about rights. Human rights. Animal rights. Forcefully sterilizing humans works against that. So does forcefully sterilizing animals for that matter (a topic I have had arguments with among my vegan friends). Here is what I think (not that you care, but I will tell you anyway). I think that you have real writing talent and the ability to get people to follow you. That is awesome. You are intelligent, you have strong opinions, and you have a platform. Now, I am not going to deny that recent reports show that producing a pound of almonds uses almost the same amount of water as producing a pound of beef, however, I will tell you that almonds are not sentient creatures that feel pain and love. We should definitely find ways to conserve water in their production. The fruit and seeds of a plant are meant to be consumed, as this ensures their continual reproduction. This is not true of animals. It is not just about conserving water. We are rapidly wiping out whole populations of animals and their habitats because we are breeding farm animals at an exponential and unsustainable rate. This is upsetting our environmental balance and will ultimately lead to the destruction of our planet. It is like a strand of DNA where each link is connected to the next. We cannot continue along this path. And cmon Erika..you have seen the videos if you went vegan for awhile. Do you now think these are all made up? How can you walk around with blinders on like that? You are educated, intelligent, and we need people like you to advance the cause. These animals need our help. It is not about the vegans or how mean, self-righteous and vulgar we can be. It is about these animals that need our help. We are the only ones that can help them. They have no-one.
Robin, I’m not going to extremes. You are. Humans are omnivores. If you want to preclude us from eating our natural diet, THAT is extreme. If you want to pretend to have moral high ground while drawing absolutely indefensible lines and saying it’s okay for vegans to procreate when that clearly harms animals … then it is you, dear, who have no credibility. It’s exactly what I said in the new article. Vegans have drawn lines where is convenient for them, but those lines have no more moral validity than the line I have drawn. Sorry, it’s simple logic. It’s too bad that vegans appear to have a very hard time with basic logical arguments. I would suggest they need to get themselves nourished.
The new article is here: https://erikaawakening.com/vegan-philosophy-collapses-contradictions-hypocrisy/
Lol..Erika, I am working on my PhD right now, and my brain functions just fine. I just read your other article and I have determined that is really is hopeless to try to communicate with you. Just like people take biblical text and apply their own meaning, you take vegan definitions and apply yours. Is the definition you used in your article too broad, yes. Are there more clear definitions of veganism, yes. You chose not to find them. If you eat meat, dairy, or eggs..you are not vegan. If you eat eggs and cheese but not meat, you are vegetarian. Below is a more clear definition of veganism for you. Let’s liken the way people follow veganism as the way people follow religion. Some strictly follow the rules, while others veer from the path. We are human, not perfect. This thing you keep saying about human propagation and suicide is really old. At this point in time, that is not something we can control, although you are correct, individually we should probably begin choosing to bring fewer humans into this vastly overpopulated world. Not propagating at all would lead to the demise of the human race. If we were to use our cognitive powers for good rather than to line our pockets, it might be worthwhile to keep humans on this planet. Here is a good vegan definition. Sorry, but you are not vegan.
Vegan Definition: Not perfect, but more clear
The word ‘vegan’ was coined in 1944 by the new UK Vegan Society to describe “the doctrine that humans should live without exploiting animals”. Veganism ain’t a fad diet or any lifestyle – it’s a social justice movement.
The word “veganism” denotes a philosophy and way of living which seeks to exclude — as far as is possible and practical — all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose; and by extension, promotes the development and use of animal-free alternatives for the benefit of humans, animals and the environment. In dietary terms it denotes the practice of dispensing with all products derived wholly or partly from animals.
Examples of exploitation include obvious actions such as eating the flesh of animals in the form of beef, chicken, and fish, wearing their skin (leather), fur,silk and wool and consuming their excretions and ovulations in the form of dairy and eggs. Vegans also abstain from using beauty and household items that contain animal products as well as those developed with animal testing. Other not so obvious forms of exploitation include the use of bee products like honey and beeswax as well as using animals for entertainment in the form of circuses, zoos, pet breeding and horseback riding. Plants are not sentient beings.
Robin, I’m sorry. By my definition, Ph.D. or not, your brain is not processing basic logical arguments. Your definition still contains “possible and practicable.” It is possible and practicable for you and other vegans not to procreate. Human overpopulation is currently the biggest problem for animals on this planet. However, you like the rest of the vegan hypocrites will probably continue to be willfully blind to simple logic and the natural implications of your own bullshit cult philosophy.
You may be correct that there is little point in communicating with me, because I am in no mood to humor this kind of unbelievably hypocritical bullshit.
P.S. I think it is a lot more extreme to brutally mutilate, torture, confine and kill an animal and eat its dead corpse than it is to live off of fruits, vegetables, seeds, legumes and grains. Just a thought.
Why? Animals were brutally mutilated, tortured, and confined to make your food. And when you vegans bring more humans into the world unnecessarily, even more animals are brutally mutilated, tortured, and confined to make your food. The fact that you don’t put flesh into your mouth does not establish moral purity. So I think it’s extreme to deny your body the nutrition it needs in order to follow a cult-like religion that makes no logical sense.
You call not killing animals and eating them a cult philosophy. Do you also believe that the civil rights movement was a cult philosophy? The civil right movement that resulted in African Americans to gain rights was also rife with contradiction, however, it was firmly based in the philosophy that we (humans) are all created equal. Vegans believe that animals should have these same rights. It may not be a perfect path, but it is the right path to freedom for all earthlings. As I stated before, and you chose not to hear, humans should consider their own propagation and how it might contribute to planet sustainability. Definition of a cult: a relatively small group of people having religious beliefs or practices regarded by others as strange or sinister. Ok, maybe based on this definition we could call veganism a cult. We could also call life coaching a cult. We could have called the small group of people who advocated for civil rights a cult. You are just full of buzzwords, but what you say is really meaningless. Well, I had hoped there was room for change with you, but after researching you online, I see it is really a hopeless cause. Just another Ann Coulter. What a shame. Happily, I will leave this conversation for good now. Good luck on your journey Erika. Money isn’t everything.
It is not the right path to freedom for all earthlings because most humans cannot thrive on a vegan diet. I guarantee you, nobody is going to solve these problems with 3D logic or strategies.
But no … I am not persuaded that the moral line I have drawn for myself to save my health is any less defensible than the entirely arbitrary and hypocritical lines that vegans have drawn. Smug vegans with their kids. Just want to do a face palm. How many animals are you killing by procreating? Countless … countless animals. The hypocrisy is just … ugh. And you folks don’t see it. You just keep beating your moral high horse drum no matter how ridiculous it sounds. Hurting the animals once again, because the rest of us don’t want to have anything to do with you.
Sorry Robin, your personal attacks won’t be published here. It’s very telling that you keep having to resort to nasty personal attack when your logic runs out. I would highly recommend that you go eat some tuna and salmon. I promise you’ll feel better and start thinking more clearly within a few weeks.
Specifically what were the vegans hypocritical about?
Oh let’s see … abortion, honey, organic food, human procreation, the list goes on and on and on … partially discussed here: https://erikaawakening.com/vegan-philosophy
Here’s another thing we can agree on: the hypocrisy of thinking abortion is ok, while championing animals. As you know from our previous conversations, I agree with you on that!
But, obviously, it is equally hypocritical for so-called ‘pro-life’ meat-eaters to be against abortion, yet ok with killing sentient beings who feel pain and fear? or, be against abortion, but support war?
To reject an ideology because some of its aspirants fail to meet their aspirations, makes no sense. ALL humans have their failings, their biases, and their blind spots, regardless of which ideology they subscribe to. This isn’t a game of “who’s the purest of us all” although I admit that some vegans do like to play that game. But then again, meat-eaters play their games of denial and calloused disregard. Which is worse? Does it matter?
Far more important, imo, is that we all work together to find common ground. Like you, I’ve participated in many debates about abortion. They all ended the same way: with insults and zero understanding. UNTIL the discussion on the vegan group. I was stunned! NEVER had I seen such an amazingly respectful discussion! Sure, a few nasty comments snuck in, but overall, nearly everyone was very respectful and truly desirous of figuring it out. Even the staunch pro-choicers were willing to concede on points related to sentience, and admitted that they didn’t really know at which point the fetus became sentient. But they were willing to work together to try to figure it out, and said they’d be against it if they knew the baby was sentient. We didn’t reach a perfect solution, but the point is that they were willing to consider new ideas and they very much wanted to adhere to their vegan principles, which absolutely DO include human animals!
This really happened. I was very impressed! I’ve never seen such respect shown in any other abortion discussion.
Does this mean that ALL vegans are consistent in their values? No, of course not. But surely you see that meat-eaters aren’t either, right?
As with religions or any other ideology, there will always be people who profess to adhere to certain principles, yet fall short. That is human nature, at least at this nexus.
To reject veganism as an ideology because you encountered some judgmental or hypocritical vegans makes zero sense! That is throwing the baby out with the bathwater!
Suggestion: Rather than writing us all off, and lumping all of us in together as hypocrites, why not open your heart and choose compassion over what we have to deal with on a daily basis? We must contend with seeing our friends killed, seeing their dead bodies in the grocery stores and every time we eat out, seeing body parts on tv commercials and on billboards, smelling the stench of roasting flesh in restaurants and at family gatherings, and, worst of all, hearing the cries of these innocent, sentient creatures, and we are unable to do anything about it, except try to raise awareness to the very people who CAN do something about it: the public.
Why not have some compassion for US, who ARE trying. Yes, sometimes we fall short, but we also deserve a lot of credit, for hanging in there when, most of the time, WE are the recipients of nasty insults, WE are outnumbered, WE are ridiculed. I’ve been ganged up on by a dozen co-workers at a time, telling me to ‘eat grass’ and ‘come mow my lawn’ and other snide, sarcastic remarks. I’ve been ridiculed when going out to eat, when all I did was ask the waiter for vegan options…I never said a word to my friends who were eating meat…not a single word…but they saw fit to ridicule me.
If we’re going to have a contest to see who is nastier, vegans or meat-eaters, I’m sorry but the meat-eaters will win, hands down. I’ve been vegetarian/vegan for longer than you’ve been alive, most likely. I could tell you some horror stories!
But no, that would serve no purpose. There’s NO point in having a contest! So let’s just agree that there are assholes in every bunch, ok?
If some vegans are angry, it isn’t because they’re malnourished. Sure, there are some vegans who eat a lot of junk food, and they have less wiggle room in terms of calories, true. So yeah, there are some vegans who go vegan ONLY for the animals, and don’t take care of their health. That is foolish, imo. Have compassion for the animals, but ALSO be smart and stay healthy, is my philosophy.
But this shouldn’t reflect on all vegans. Obviously, there are plenty of meat-eaters – probably the vast majority of them – who eat crap. We all know that, so if you’re going to pick on the unhealthy junk-food vegans, then at least be fair and pick on the unhealthy junk-food meat-eaters too.
But talking about the vegans who go vegan for the animals AND care about their health, NO, most are NOT malnourished. Most are thriving. And the few that aren’t, CAN with just a bit of education. This is FACT, whether you are aware of it or not. You have chosen to remain ignorant of the clinical work done in this area. That is your choice, but you are simply ignorant, by choice, so you really can’t comment. (Well you can, and you have, but you are simply wrong, and any rebuttal you offer carries no weight, because you have refused to consider new information.)
I invite you to have some compassion for us. We are trying. We are doing the best we can. We sometimes fall short, but our hearts are open. If we sometimes get angry, it isn’t because we’re malnourished; it’s because we hear the cries of billions of oppressed beings, and we despair.
Please cut us some slack. We cut the meat-eaters a LOT of slack. We have to, if we want to function in society. We have no choice.
I recognize all the arguments, Monica. We are in big-time double binds on every major issue.
Where I differ is in thinking veganism solves anything. As I see it, the only way you can solve these problems is at the quantum level. Which has nothing to do with a diet.
You speak of things like ‘the quantum level’ yet you don’t seem to understand what that really means. YOU are the event horizon! Change starts with YOU! With each of us! But we have to start with ourselves. And yes indeed, diet is a part of it, for several reasons: Our bodies are made of light. If we want to evolve, we must raise our vibration. Plants are condensed light. Animal ‘foods’ are a much, much lower vibration. Secondly, we must raise our consciousness, and it’s impossible to do that while still making cruel choices. Yes, of course there are still problems to be addressed. Yes, commercial farming practices kill many rodents. We are well aware of that, and that is why buying organic is so important. True, many vegans don’t fully realize that yet…but this is NOT hypocrisy! It’s simply an area where there needs to be more education and pragmatic solutions. Making the obvious choice to quit eating animals is the logical first step. Many otherwise ‘spiritual’ people make the same mistake you are making now: They go back to eating animals, thinking that it will solve their problems. It might temporarily, but any perceived benefits could have been obtained while remaining vegan, had they been willing to open their minds to new information, instead of being locked into preconceived ideas. They think they have it all figured out. They think they are so spiritually evolved that it doesn’t matter what they choose to support. Choices DO matter! Each of us does matter! That is the very foundation of quantum physics. I would suggest a video series explaining why you are the event horizon, but you don’t seem to be open to new ideas. You have stated that your mind is made up. That is a shame. Someone like you could be a beacon of light, instead of contributing to the darkness. At what cost is your choice, karmically, ethically and spiritually?
Change does start with you. But it doesn’t start with your diet. It starts with your belief system. And that is our fundamental place of disagreement.
I say to you what I said to Chris and Charlie on the other thread.
Have you solved anything with this pious lifestyle, Monica? No, you haven’t. You haven’t solved a thing. There are still 70 billion land animals awaiting slaughter. So, is it working? No, it is not working. Shall I continue to do lifestyle gymnastics to contort myself to a rigid, joyless “religion” that is not working? Not in my opinion.
There is an answer, and not one of you yet is open to hearing it. This is it:
“Projection makes perception. The world you see is what you gave it, nothing more than that. But though it is no more than that, it is not less. Therefore, to you it is important. It is the witness to your state of mind, the outside picture of an inward condition. As a man thinketh, so does he perceive. Therefore, seek not to change the world, but choose to change your mind about the world. Perception is a result and not a cause. And that is why order of difficulty in miracles is meaningless. Everything looked upon with vision is healed and holy. Nothing perceived without it means anything. And where there is no meaning, there is chaos.
“Damnation is your judgment on yourself, and this you will project upon the world. See it as damned, and all you see is what you did to hurt the Son of God. If you behold disaster and catastrophe, you tried to crucify him. If you see holiness and hope, you joined the Will of God to set him free. There is no choice that lies between these two decisions. And you will see the witness to the choice you made, and learn from this to recognize which one you chose.”
– A Course in Miracles
You are still calling it a ‘diet’ and making the same mistake most meat-eating ‘spiritual’ or ‘self-help’ leaders do: Confusing just diet with the importance of our CHOICES. So many self-professed spiritual teachers say “oh it doesn’t matter what you eat…it matters what you think” and “just raise the vibration of the meat” but all those statements focus on SELF, forgetting about the victims of their choices. It’s a classic case of cognitive dissonance. Veganism is more than just a ‘diet’. It’s a lifestyle, seeking to reduce cruelty as much as possible. Your choice of words seems to suggest that you never really fully understood the principles behind veganism. You do NOT have to choose between health and principles. There ARE solutions, but you have rejected them. So you are making your choice to reject principles, based on your perception that vegans aren’t perfect? That is illogical. By that ‘logic’ you could never aspire to ANY principles whatsoever, because you’ll never find any ideology whose followers are ALL perfect. So instead of working WITH us to help raise the consciousness of the planet, and instead of working WITH us to fine-tune the diet part so that those (like you) who had challenges can find answers and thrive, instead you choose to throw the baby out with the bathwater, and join the ranks of those who don’t even care at all. That makes NO sense, and not only that, it’s irresponsible.
LOL
That quote is true. I absolutely believe in a microcosmic universe, so our own projections all contribute to the collective reality.
But that doesn’t mean that ‘anything goes’ because our choices also project and thus contribute to the collective reality. We cannot expect peace on Earth while we still make choices that cause the suffering of sentient beings. Of course there are still billions of animals suffering, because not enough people have chosen a cruelty-free diet yet. But our numbers are growing.
By your logic, then it would be ok to kill a human too…why not just keep having abortions then? After all, abortions are still happening, so your system must not be working! and go ahead and just murder people too?
You have fallen prey to the New Age trap of “nothing I do matters” which is actually contrary to what you quoted. Your projections DO matter, but so do your choices. Microcosm, macrocosm…choices matter on ALL levels.
In your current belief system, there is absolutely no choice you can make that is not destructive. And that is where the problem is. Drawing arbitrary lines about what kind of destruction you will engage in is not solving anything. And yes it’s absolutely arbitrary to participate in the mass slaughter of bees and do lifestyle gymnastics to avoid participating in the slaughter of one cow. It solves absolutely nothing. You can’t solve these problems at the level of “doing.”
To knowingly, consciously contribute to the mass slaughter of bees would be just as bad. I agree with you on that. But you are throwing the baby out with the bathwater. To say “I can’t save every bee so I’ll just go ahead and kill cows” makes NO sense!
The very definition of vegan is to do our best to avoid cruelty. It is impossible to avoid it 100%. Just walking outside kills bugs. Just breathing kills microbes (or maybe they just merge with our lifeforce…)
I agree that SOME vegans think that just avoiding meat and dairy is enough, and they don’t make any effort to make better choices regarding fruits and veggies. Buying commercial produce does indeed cause mass killing of bees, though various means, not the least of which is pesticides.
But these vegans are simply ignorant or haven’t yet grasped that bees are important too. Or, maybe they have a blind spot because they think buying organic is too expensive. Vegans are human and aren’t perfect. We all have our blind spots.
But most ARE open to learning about these things. I know this because I’ve seen these topics discussed many times. Some vegans agonize over ridiculous things that they have zero control over, like accidentally squashing a flying bug on the highway. This shows that they CARE. That is a GOOD thing! That is where we start, if we want to ever change the world. We must start by giving a damn.
To suggest that they just quit driving on the highway is absurd. We have to function in society. No, we cannot cease ALL killing of ALL animals overnight. We all know that is impossible.
But we CAN drastically reduce the torture and needless slaughter of billions upon billions of animals, who never even had a normal life like that butterfly on the highway, and who are living in constant suffering. That is an abomination! To do nothing to stop such an abomination is reprehensible!
If you think that, since it’s impossible to avoid ALL killing of other creatures, then it’s ok to kill them indiscriminately, then you have missed the point.
I cannot personally stop all murder and rape of humans. I have no control over what other people do. But I DO have control over what **I** do. I would never participate in violence towards other humans (except for direct self-defense, and even then, only as a last resort) Likewise, I refuse to participate in the abominable meat/dairy industry. It is an obscenity!
But I ALSO don’t participate in the commercial farming industry, to the degree that I am able to. I buy only organic, non-GMO, I shop at local farmer’s markets whenever possible, and I grow as much of my own food as possible. If, when harvesting my lettuce, I find a bug, I toss it back into the grass. If a spider finds its way into my home, I gently catch it and release it. But if, despite my best efforts, a bug is killed, that is its natural life cycle. There is nothing natural about commercial monoculture! So it is as much of an abomination as factory farming.
But supporting BOTH monoculture AND factory farming makes NO sense whatsoever! What, you can’t 100% avoid fruits and veggies produced through monoculture, so you’re going to just go ahead and support factory farming too??? That makes zero sense!
It is much more sensible and ethical to do what we can…and if we all did that, then we WOULD change the world!
I agree that ‘doing’ ALONE won’t change the world. We must ALSO change our consciousness! But, otoh, purporting to having changed one’s consciousness, and then concluding that doing doesn’t matter AT ALL is ludicrous. It indicates that consciousness wasn’t changed at all; if anything, consciousness was lowered. It’s NOT a change in consciousness; rather, it is a cop-out. To say that ‘doing’ doesn’t matter, is absurd.
Not only that, but by ‘not doing’ you are in fact doing.
Think about that.
By ‘not doing’ you are in fact doing.
Not making a choice is making a choice.
Not ‘doing’ anything to help the holocaust victims, when you have the opportunity to, is choosing to harm them.
There are billions of holocaust victims right now, crying out for help. We can’t save them all, obviously. But we CAN choose to DO something! By NOT doing anything to help, we are DOING the opposite of good: We are aiding the evil.
Here is a way to test any line of reasoning: Try it with humans and see how it works.
“I can’t save every bee so I’ll just go ahead and kill cows too, without even bothering to open my mind to alternative solutions to my health issues.”
Now substitute:
“I can’t save every unborn baby so I’ll go ahead and forgo contraception and if I get pregnant, I’ll just go ahead and have an abortion. After all, actions don’t matter because I am AWAKE.”
or
“I can’t save every murder victim so the next time I get angry at someone, I’ll just kill them.”
or
“I can’t stop every war so I’ll go ahead and vote for politicians who are war-mongers…actions don’t matter. There are wars anyway so why not just have more wars?”
Or how about:
“As long as I meditate (substitute pray/tap/chant/practice yoga/whatever) then it doesn’t matter what I do…I can go ahead and hurt others…beat my child…abort my baby…needlessly kill animals…” is simply self-centered. That indicates a blockage in the heart.
You could save every bee … by ending human existence. That you choose to draw the line in a place other than me, for your personal convenience, is not more justifiable than the line I am drawing. These lines vegans are drawing are purely fictional. Yet enforced within the community as if they make any sense or are defensible in any way. And as such, it turns into a religion (cult) that I am no longer willing to participate in, in any way.
Gosh, such black-and-white thinking!
Humans don’t have to go extinct to save the bees! There are sustainable practices!
The idea of ‘saving every bee’ is ludicrous, not to mention impossible! No one is promoting that at all. Nor is anyone promoting the idea of ‘saving every cow.’ We understand that there is a balance of nature. Cows get killed in the wild by predators. So do chickens. We cannot stop that; nor would we want to.
What we want to stop is the needless torture and slaughter of animals who were artificially bred specifically for food, when it’s totally UNnecessary.
Food production can be sustainable, healthy, and in harmony with Nature. Does this mean that no animal would ever be killed? Of course not. That idea is ridiculous.
It means that humans would live on plants, and the balance of nature would be restored. It will take more than just going vegan…but that is the obvious first place to start.
Btw, I didn’t see any response from you about the vegan prison. Did I miss it?
It’s not black and white thinking, actually. Veganism is. Veganism pretends you can draw morally defensible lines in arbitrary places. I am simply eating what I need to eat to maintain my health. Far more defensible, IMO.
I don’t know why you all keep carrying on with this when there is a better answer that you haven’t even touched.
Veganism isn’t arbitrary at all. We draw the line at sentience, which is easily discernible by a nervous system and pain receptors.
And just what is your solution that I haven’t touched?
False. Everything is sentient. It’s all run by One Mind.
How many times do I have to say it – are you not hearing me? The only way you can solve these problems is at the level of the subconscious mind. Therefore, you must learn how to resolve problems there. Otherwise, this is just another 3D “solution” that won’t work.
Everything – every blade of grass, every cell on your body – has consciousness, awareness, yes.
BUT NOT INDIVIDUAL sentience. Individually sentient entities incarnate into mind-body complexes, rather than just body complexes.
The hardware must accommodate the software. Once an entity evolves to individual sentience, they incarnate into a physical vehicle that can accommodate that sentience…you can tell because it will have a nervous system…and pain receptors.
That is the graduation from 2D to 3D…sentience.
Humans are 3D…so are whales and dolphins. Humans are evolving to 4D…with different criteria.
In 4D, sentient entities form a group mind…they’ve come full circle, like The Fool in the Tarot. But, sentience is intact…now merged with other sentient beings…Oneness.
and so it continues, into the higher densities.
Consciousness evolves through the octave.
Vegan fiction :) Vegan mythology :) Attempting to draw lines where none can be drawn. All the while avoiding the real issue – the belief in death. And no diet can do a damn thing about the belief in death. But my healing method can. So you do your thing, and I’ll do mine. Until vegans show they are serious about having this problem solved, I feel perfectly content to eat an omnivorous diet as my biological programming dictates.
…says she who says she can live forever
lol!
“If we share the same mind, you can overcome death because I did.” – Jesus Christ, A Course in Miracles
So you’re trying to live forever, while causing the deaths of other beings. Got it.
Nope, I’m standing firm for non-3D solutions. :D
“Life begets life…death begets death.” ~ Edgar Cayce
So learn how to reprogram the subconscious mind, and join me in abolishing death. Otherwise, you have a Sisyphean task at the level of symptoms and will never get the real problem solved.
Monica and Robin,
Very arbitrary indeed. Please define very carefully where you draw the line of sentience. For that matter, are you completely unaware of the studies of the last century which proved plant sentience? Kirlian photography and other measures of the electromagnetic field of plants showed clear panic when they “saw” that they were going to be cut up or placed in a boiling pot to be prepared for food. You have spoken of shellfish having no sentience, but I have personally experienced clams moving away from me when I step on them in a lake, sometimes somehow burrowing deep into the mud and getting mud and muck between my foot and their shell. Studies have shown even these shell fish to have some form of awareness of the presence of predators which is why they close themselves up, forcing the seals to break their shells to get at the meat inside.
Pure and simple, your definition is arbitrary and self-serving. You have no more regard for creation than the omnivores you hate so much. And even more than you hate those omnivores you hate having your hypocrisy pointed out.
As for being beings of light, prove it. You accuse Erika of falling for New Age bullshit. Only New Age takes a mish-mash of everyone else’s teachings and adds their own crap to it, but that is what you have done here.
The traditional doctrine of the eastern religions (coming from ancient Greek thought with some “local” additions) is that everything is dualistic. There is light/spirit which is good and matter which is inherently evil. Most of these religions (including the ancient Greek) also include the logical inconsistency of “evil” spirits, including the demiurge that created evil matter. Then again we can see that those people don’t really believe what they teach because they cling to these bodies made of matter in much the same way you do and are nearly as likely to ridicule those who encourage you to speed the process by killing yourself and making the sought after “out of body” nirvana permanent.
You call it light, Erika calls it the quantum level, but Erika is also much more realistic about this stuff. You say we are light; the eastern religions say we seek to become light and the ancient Hebrew tradition says we are a mix of this light and matter. The apostle Paul agrees with Erika saying in 1 Corinthians 15:52 that we will be changed “in the atoms,” using Epicurus’ terminology for the smallest particle possible. Later Christians having no real understanding of either ancient Greek or ancient Hebrew philosophy later translated this as “a moment” making it about time and not matter.
While the Judeo-Christian texts teach us that there is an aspect of this light within us and it cannot sin (1 John 3:9, Romans 7:14-20) yet my flesh is clearly able to sin. Paul is even more clear about the cause of this in Romans 5:12 but translators later obscured this passage as well because they could not (or would not) understand what Paul was saying. Properly translated this verse says, “As by one man sin entered the world and death (mortality) by sin, so also death (mortality) passed to all men and for that reason all sin.”
Adam was created a mixture of light and matter and God declared this mix very good. When Adam sinned a quantum change took place and he lost this light. All religious thought since that time is about regaining the creation body which Adam lost whether we do this by fig leaves (which represent the various efforts of fleshly man) or we seek the creation power of God and wait for him to make these corrections in his own time.
Erika is right. She cannot do this. That does not mean she should not aspire to something better, but then she has not denied this in the least. She has simply pointed out that your arbitrary lines, definitions and limits are just that, that they fall very short of any real morality, they contain numerous logical inconsistencies and are full of hypocrisy and besides, you can’t/won’t keep them anyway.
Erika is mistaken by saying we can save all the bees by taking humans out of the equation. Until the quantum changes return the universe to its pre-sin (or however you define it) state there will always be something else around to devour or otherwise kill the bees and anything/everything else. But she is right when she asks you why you don’t just kill yourself. By the biblical teaching, except for a select few who are alive at Jesus second coming the only way to enter the light is through death and resurrection. Not all Christians believe this. A great many believe, as do the eastern religions, that you enter at death. Either way, death is required to become light. This is even true for those who are bodily changed at the second coming because they first had to experience “the second death” which is repentance and full submission to God. No one enters the light without some form of death.
So answer Erika’s question? Why aren’t you speeding up the process? But please, do not follow the example of your “right to life” cousins who are just as hateful, immoral and hypocritical as you because the nearly all support the death penalty and the more militant among them are more than happy to send abortion clinic doctors, nurses and patients into the light, and even go into churches to do it. There would be no greater proof of your hypocrisy.
Monica and Robin,
Very arbitrary indeed. Please define very carefully where you draw the line of sentience. For that matter, are you completely unaware of the studies of the last century which proved plant sentience? Kirlian photography and other measures of the electromagnetic field of plants showed clear panic when they “saw” that they were going to be cut up or placed in a boiling pot to be prepared for food. You have spoken of shellfish having no sentience, but I have personally experienced clams moving away from me when I step on them in a lake, sometimes somehow burrowing deep into the mud and getting mud and muck between my foot and their shell. Studies have shown even these shell fish to have some form of awareness of the presence of predators which is why they close themselves up, forcing the seals to break their shells to get at the meat inside.
Pure and simple, your definition is arbitrary and self-serving. You have no more regard for creation than the omnivores you hate so much. And even more than you hate those omnivores you hate having your hypocrisy pointed out.
As for being beings of light, prove it. You accuse Erika of falling for New Age bullshit. Only New Age takes a mish-mash of everyone else’s teachings and adds their own crap to it, but that is what you have done here.
The traditional doctrine of the eastern religions (coming from ancient Greek thought with some “local” additions) is that everything is dualistic. There is light/spirit which is good and matter which is inherently evil. Most of these religions (including the ancient Greek) also include the logical inconsistency of “evil” spirits, including the demiurge that created evil matter. Then again we can see that those people don’t really believe what they teach because they cling to these bodies made of matter in much the same way you do and are nearly as likely to ridicule those who encourage you to speed the process by killing yourself and making the sought after “out of body” nirvana permanent.
You call it light, Erika calls it the quantum level, but Erika is also much more realistic about this stuff. You say we are light; the eastern religions say we seek to become light and the ancient Hebrew tradition says we are a mix of this light and matter. The apostle Paul agrees with Erika saying in 1 Corinthians 15:52 that we will be changed “in the atoms,” using Epicurus’ terminology for the smallest particle possible. Later Christians having no real understanding of either ancient Greek or ancient Hebrew philosophy later translated this as “a moment” making it about time and not matter.
While the Judeo-Christian texts teach us that there is an aspect of this light within us and it cannot sin (1 John 3:9, Romans 7:14-20) yet my flesh is clearly able to sin. Paul is even more clear about the cause of this in Romans 5:12 but translators later obscured this passage as well because they could not (or would not) understand what Paul was saying. Properly translated this verse says, “As by one man sin entered the world and death (mortality) by sin, so also death (mortality) passed to all men and for that reason all sin.”
Adam was created a mixture of light and matter and God declared this mix very good. When Adam sinned a quantum change took place and he lost this light. All religious thought since that time is about regaining the creation body which Adam lost whether we do this by fig leaves (which represent the various efforts of fleshly man) or we seek the creation power of God and wait for him to make these corrections in his own time.
Erika is right. She cannot do this. That does not mean she should not aspire to something better, but then she has not denied this in the least. She has simply pointed out that your arbitrary lines, definitions and limits are just that, that they fall very short of any real morality, they contain numerous logical inconsistencies and are full of hypocrisy and besides, you can’t/won’t keep them anyway.
Erika is mistaken by saying we can save all the bees by taking humans out of the equation. Until the quantum changes return the universe to its pre-sin (or however you define it) state there will always be something else around to devour or otherwise kill the bees and anything/everything else. But she is right when she asks you why you don’t just kill yourself. By the biblical teaching, except for a select few who are alive at Jesus second coming the only way to enter the light is through death and resurrection. Not all Christians believe this. A great many believe, as do the eastern religions, that you enter at death. Either way, death is required to become light. This is even true for those who are bodily changed at the second coming because they first had to experience “the second death” which is repentance and full submission to God. No one enters the light without some form of death.
So answer Erika’s question? Why aren’t you speeding up the process? But please, do not follow the example of your “right to life” cousins who are just as hateful, immoral and hypocritical as you because they nearly all support the death penalty and the more militant among them are more than happy to send abortion clinic doctors, nurses and patients into the light, and even go into churches to do it. There would be no greater proof of your hypocrisy.
Arbitrary and self-serving. Yep, that would pretty much sum up the vast majority of the comments I’ve received from vegans in response to these posts. And yet with no willingness to acknowledge that the vegan philosophy is: arbitrary and self-serving.
Everything is sentient. And if people invested in learning quantum transformation skills, they would soon understand that everything is created by One Mind and cannot be separated into little bits and pieces as the vegan philosophy would attempt to do.
As for all bees being saved by humans out of the equation, nope never said that. I simply said that the logical extension of the vegan philosophy – honestly construed – is human annihilation. Which can’t possibly be the right answer.
There is an answer here, and it isn’t a diet. It’s quantum transformation. But people who are too lazy and self-righteous to learn new skills will never get that.
My apologies Erika. You have said something about saving bees by ending human occupation of the planet over and over and I thought at least once I had seen the word “all” in there. Then again, we all see what we want to see and interpret things how we want to interpret them, not necessarily as they were intended to be understood, and sometimes it doesn’t matter too much how hard we try to protect ourselves against this natural human trait.
Please forgive me for my assumptions. I wish more of these people would actually take the time to learn how people work and take that into account before they go running off at the mouth. The world would be a much more pleasant place and there would be much less self-righteous bullshit being put out as absolute truth.
You sure do make a lot of assumptions! No, this has NOTHING to do with being vegan. This is communication from higher beings.
You are naive.
Mmhmm :)
Wait … hold the presses … it turns out I’m still vegan under the definition:
https://erikaawakening.com/vegan-philosophy-collapses-contradictions-hypocrisy/
You said you deleted the nastiest comments on here. You deleted mine which were not nasty at all. Maybe it was because the nasty comment came from you. You called me insane. Interesting.
If it was deleted, it was probably nasty. Most vegans here have shown that they don’t know how to talk without being nasty.
there are PLENTY of studies to show that a plant based diet is healthier and less carcinogenic than those containing dead animal flesh and secretions.
I’ve removed the personal attacks from your comment. Actually, there are no studies whatsoever establishing that all humans can thrive on a vegan diet, and plenty of evidence that this premise is false:
https://erikaawakening.com/vegan-philosophy-collapses-contradictions-hypocrisy/
Interesting article and comments from people. Not surprised by the viciousness of some comments.
From my perspective, and it is only that, as a human and one who has worked as a nurse, I believe each person has to live with the consequences of their actions. I also believe gratitude for food, whether vegan, vegetarian, paleo, or whatever, is good practice, and NO ONE has the right to say what another person should/not eat. However, it’s clear that some people can manage and thrive on all types of diet, but no one type of diet will serve everyone. Therefore, find what works best for you, but don’t try to convince others other than to ensure people thin about the imprint they make on life. For example, if you feel you need meat, you’re likely to be able to manage on a small amount, not large slabs every day. Also, I’m all in favour of humane care of ALL livestock as well as plant life. Many factors go into making us healthy. Eating loads of supps doesn’t sound healthy to me, but that’s my take on it.
At the end of the day, I believe in Live & Let Live, or Let no one judge lest ye be judged also.
You did the ‘right’ thing for you, Erika, by changing your diet, which was not serving you.
Anyone who wants to ‘point the finger’ at Erika should take a long hard look at him-/herself first. Besides, negativity never helps.
Look at the world: it’s in crisis in many parts of the globe! Do we really want to add to that?
For what it’s worth…
I think it’s important to remember that all people are different. I was a vegan for 17 years. I was very careful when I chose food so I would get all the nutrients I needed. I went every year to take tests to make sure I didn’t have any deficiensies. The tests were always fine! I have some health problems and when I turned to a private clinic for more extensive testing, the tests showed that I had deficiensies in things that the standard tests at the GP don’t test at all. I have health problems, so maybe that’s why my body doesn’t absorb all nutrients or having trouble making carnitine for example. I don’t know. I don’t know which came first, the chicken or the egg in my case.
I think some people will do just fine on a vegan diet, but some won’t. We just have to accept that. We are different.
Yes and you raise a great point. I would be willing to bet that lots of people in these comments who said their blood tests are fine were not tested for most key nutrients. There are also many issues that simply may not show up in testing due to the limited nature of testing.
Wishing you health and success! If you have the bit of space and the inclination, I recommend you get yourself some chickens! Hens only of course, and spoil them with organic feed and high-quality scraps from your kitchen. You can enjoy their incredibly delicious eggs which contain top-notch nutrition (especially the minerals and enzymes you need) without ANY guilt!
That would be nice. My lifestyle doesn’t allow it at this time. Appreciate the suggestion.
Wow. Reading these comments are flipping amazing. You are getting the same kind of response that you get when you challenge a religious fanatics belief system- attacks, finger pointing, denying logic. Disturbing. People are “open minded” until you challenge their beliefs or prove them wrong. Jesus… Grow up.
Good job actually listening to your body instead of guilt. Good job taking care of yourself and telling the world so others on the brink of health crisis or changing their precious belief systems don’t feel alone. I’ve been in your shoes, and know that my health improved dramatically once I started eating meat again. Hair improved, chronic joint pain left, digestive issues improved… The list goes on. I noticed at my last job all the vegans were constantly cold, shivering, and getting sick/coughing. Their hair and skin were dry, they had facial ticks and nails wouldn’t grow. But they would constantly say how healthy they were… My response, “Keep telling yourself that and maybe one day it will be true.”
That went over well…. But again, congrats. Good luck. Best of health!
Thanks MiChelle. Given the incredibly oppressive nature of most of the vegan community, I am hopeful that the articles I have been writing will help those who know full well their health is failing to find the strength to defect from the movement. I appreciate your support. And yea these people really lose credibility when they say “look at me, I’m healthy and thriving,” and you see their photo looks emaciated and sickly.
Thanks for this great post. I completely agree with you and I like that you mentioned how the vegan community never talks about supplementation beyond taking B12 or DHA – that alone is keeping a whole lot of people in the dark about deficiencies and dangerous health risks. It’s probably mostly from ignorance, but yes, it’s definitely exacerbated by the insane amount of cult-like brainwashing that prevents vegans from even wanting to believe veganism might not always be right.
Thanks Kay. Also, many vegans claim to be healthy and thriving. However, their cognitive deficiency and chronic anger and emotional imbalance prove otherwise.
Hi Erika
I’ve been trying to reconcile what you’re saying with my own experiences…
I was brought up on a vegan diet by my (both vegan) parents.
I’m 26 years old, I’ve never eaten meat, nor dairy in my life.
I rarely take supplements, occasionally my mum hands me some B12 or suchlike when we realise it’s been a while, the supplements are rare and really only done offhandedly.
Frankly, I’m in decent health (I admit my diet is not actually all that healthy, consisting heavily of pasta, pizza and soda. Student diets :P )
I’m getting by fine and certainly not sickly.
At risk of sounding big headed, I’m a software programmer (and a pretty damn good one), I’m frequently approached by my friends as the most level-headed and calm natured person they know.
I feel perhaps you misrepresent your own experiences as applying to everyone on a vegan diet.
My observation is that there’s a marked difficulty people suffer in changing diet to veganism, there’ve been some studies that suggest the body actually becomes dependent on the particular proteins and structures of meat and dairy, cutting them out of one’s diet producing an effect similar to going Cold Turkey on drugs (if you’ll pardon the expression)
But for those of us who were raised from a very early age as vegans, we don’t have this issue.
The number of people in my life who’ve actually come up to me and told me without irony that “you can’t live on a vegan diet” is amazing. my usual reaction was to reach out and pinch their cheek and comment “I seem to be living just fine thanks”
So this comment is my digital equivalent of pinching your cheek :P
I’m not going to tell you You’re Doing It Wrong or try and convince you to give it another go, clearly from the sound of it you simply weren’t getting what you needed in your diet.
I doubt very much that iron deficiency was the issue though, unless you weren’t eating any leafy greens you should have easily been getting enough from that.
My interpretation? Different people absorb nutrients in different ways, some food is better for some people than others.
It’s possible that your body simply wasn’t well enough equipped to take on a Vegan diet despite your best intentions.
I’d be the first to admit that the Vegan movement as a whole has a lot of really fanatical types in it, I am not one of those. I do not care what other people eat, I agree intellectually with the ethics and economics of veganism, but I eat vegan because I’ve always eaten vegan, Habit really.
The idea of eating meat or dairy simply doesn’t appeal to me in the same way eating fried insects likely wouldn’t appeal to most others. I know intellectually there are a lot of people who enjoy it, and it’s probably very nutritious…I just don’t care to do it, Why break a diet that’s worked great for me for the past 26 years?
Well, your reading comprehension could use some help, my friend. At your age, I wouldn’t be too arrogant about your health. Some DHA/EPA would probably help with reading comprehension.
I never said that nobody can thrive on a vegan diet. If your parents have been (self-selecting) long-term vegans, then most likely you have the genetics to support that diet. Whereas many if not most other people do not.
*Pinches Rowan’s cheek* …wait till you hit your thirties, kid.
Boy did I have to scroll through a lot of the same elitist “you’re just doing it wrong” mudslinging you address in your post, just to show support!
As a vegetarian for 20 years who started when I hit puberty, I know I deprived my growing body of all sorts of important nutrients and I’ve suffered so many health problems since. I persevered, “knowing” this was the right way to live my life. Since starting to eat meat again, my health has improved. Not dramatically, but I have certainly noticed some significant changes to my digestion, hair and nails. I can actually grow nails now, before they peeled and broke as fast as they grew.
Eating whole nourishing foods is absolutely biologically preferable to a diet of laboratory made supplements. We can eat meat from animals raised on farms by caring humans rather than meat from CAFO’s.
Suffering, pain and death will never be eliminated. We can do the best we can to mitigate these things, but by spewing vitriol and hate at other humans for their choices, militant vegans are adding to the problem they seek to eradicate.
As someone looking into veganism and reducing their intake of other being I found this discussion fascinating although it left me somewhat confused in some areas. Personally I would have learnt more if all the comments had been objective. Although I can appreciate why passions run high on both sides, it would be beautiful if this debate could be undertaken with more compassion for those on the other side of the argument. Just sayin
I’m afraid I have zero compassion left for vegans. Try feeling compassion for them after several weeks of this nonsense directed at you. I’ve never encountered an uglier nastier group of hypocrites in my entire life. Better? :)
Im vegan and I never directed anything at you. :(
Yea and Stephen I appreciate that. Unfortunately, hundreds of your peers have not been able to control themselves. Most likely because their diet is not nutritionally adequate so they are suffering from emotional imbalance and cognitive deficiency. Sorry, I don’t mean to lump in the few good folks with the predominantly nasty vegan majority.
LOL
Erika, as I have read through this thread over the last week you have made me laugh many times, and not derisively either.
Keep up the sense of humor. That more than any form of diet will keep you healthy.
Thank you Myron. Yes, it made me laugh too. One of the first things that came back when I got myself properly nourished with animal products was my sense of humor :)
If you are considering veganism and are truly openminded I strongly suggest that you read “The Vegetarian Myth” by Lierre Keith. The author discusses the Ethical, Environmental and Nutritional aspects of veganism with a very clear head. She was a vegan for twenty years. I would also suggest that you read “Nutrition and Physical Degeneration” by Dr Weston A Price. He was a dentist/scientist/researcher who traveled around the world in the 1930’s investigating how both traditional and modern isolated populations sustained themselves, in many cases for thousands of years. He measured the nutrient content of thses varied diets and noted the similarities. His works are not specifically “anti-vegan”, but his findings as to how human populations have been sucessfully sustaining themselves for millenia, effective shred much of the vegan nutritional dogmas. ( The mere mention of the name of WAP is a surefire “test” for a vegan. If the person acts like a vampire suddenly confronted with a crucifix, or starts bouncing around and quacking like Donald Duck on acid.. you have found a vegan.) One of the organization that extrapolate and desseminate his findings is the Weston A Price Foundation. There is an enourmous amount nutritional of information on their website. The WAPF does recommend against veganism and there are several articles about it. One of the articles has over one hundred scientific references. Many recovering vegans point directly to the writings of WAP and the information gotten from the WAPF as having SAVED THEIR LIVES. Read the Amazon reviews of “Nutrition and Physical Degeneration”
LOL and YES
I’m a vegan. I only eat animals that eat grass which makes them a reconstituted vegetable.
Besides if god did not want us to eat animals he would not have made them out of meat.
My daughter once tried a vegetarian diet. When talking to my doctor about it he said she needed to be careful as there are 12 essential amino acids that the body requires and 2 of them can only be obtained from animal products. He advised me that she should at the very least consume dairy products.
I clicked on this article because I was just curious to see why someone would go back to eating flesh after being vegan (I just don’t understand how a person could) and while I was reading it, I just kept thinking,
“Oh, the poor girl just wasn’t feeding herself properly.” I felt for you. Health issues as a result of not taking proper care of yourself can be hard. And yes, a person has to listen to their body to determine what it needs. You said you craved meat because you were deficient in iron, there are plenty of plant sources that supply the body with more than enough iron. In any case, I’m just trying to tell you that your article was sort of relatable. What makes you a detestable hypocrite, is your responses to the commenters who took the time to read an article you wrote with the understanding that it would be controversial. Telling people to kill themselves? How does that alienate anyone less than you claim vegans alienate the 98% of the population that eat mean? You can’t alienate a majority. You are truly a disgusting woman, not because you’re not vegan, but because you are filled with the putrid pus of hatred and you close your eyes and ears instead of having a conversation with another human being. You act like a spoiled child and stomp your feet and scream obscenities when you are challenged. Is that how Harvard taught you how to debate? You are awful at being human, I don’t care what you put in your filth covered mouth.
I’m quite certain, Meredith, that you are projecting. That you hate yourself. How else could you come up with such vile, graphic, hateful words? Why is it so difficult for you vegans to accept that some people cannot absorb nutrients properly from plant sources? Is it, perhaps, if you were really honest with yourselves … that you too feel deprived on a vegan diet. That you too know that your body is STARVING for the nutrients that it needs. And yet you feel so much guilt and self-hatred and fear, that you are unwilling to listen to your body. That’s what I would guess. Nobody will be converted to veganism by your hatred, that is for certain. I suggest you read your words again and ask yourself how you directed such venom at another human being and call yourself loving or compassionate in any way.
Not wanting to attack you directly but what you’ve done here is a reducio ad absurdum – if you want to cause no harm then the only option is to end your own life. But the blatant fallacy here is that vegans acknowledge the fact that suffering & death are an inevitable consequence of life, just like everybody else of course, but strive to minimise their negative impact (including to themselves) instead of throwing hands up in the air and thinking oh well, fuck it, c’est la vie. Incidently, even the act of suicide does not end all suffering as you’ve stated; there would be victims here too also.
Harvey, I’m afraid if we think this through, that makes no sense.
Even if you buy the “do least harm” argument, you have to draw lines. Those lines are totally arbitrary and based on personal preference, so you have no right to impose them on others. Suicide is the logical outcome of a true “do no harm” perspective if you buy in to the 3D perspective (which, incidentally, I do not).
Now, assuming that most people are not going to commit suicide, they are going to draw the line somewhere else. For you that is vegan. But vegan is just an arbitrary set of “rules” that is no better morally than my set of rules. I am eating animal products because my body needs them to be healthy. So I am practicing the doctrine of “do least harm” to myself as well as others. So are you, otherwise you would commit suicide if you didn’t care about your own well-being.
Because vegans ARE harming animals whether they want to admit it or not, and I guarantee you they are not doing least harm, even considering their own well-being. They are not restricting their activities to a bare minimum, they are not reducing their caloric intake to a bare minimum, they are not refusing to eat industrially-pollinated and pesticide-laden crops. So vegans ARE NOT DOING LEAST HARM.
All vegans are doing is drawing an arbitrary line in the sand that is no more morally justifiable than the line I am drawing. So, it’s absolutely fine to draw that line for yourself … and absolutely ridiculous to hold it out as some “truth” that everyone else has to follow.
But Erika, I’m afraid we did think this one out.
Of course lines have to be drawn at some point on moral judgments, and ethics are slippery. But depending on your intended meaning of arbirtary, I’d argue this is not at all the case. You seem to have entirely missed my point and just gone into the usual spiel about how vegans should murder themselves to avoid causing further “unnecessary” harm (and hypocrisy!). You totally ignored the problem that this in fact would cause grevious sustained harm to loved ones left behind, as well as to the individual concerned. But that minor detail notwithstanding, even if indeed a vegan lifestyle caused just as much harm as the alternatives (I honestly do not believe that to be at all the case), the precept of veganism holds that if harm can be avoided it ought to be. Of course there are grey areas, of course there exist many conflicts of interest, but there are so many that are extremely clear cut, that our social conditioning causes us to simply blot out. You know this full well; you’ve written in detail about it priorly despite your complete full circle volte-face. I can’t take you seriously because you wrote so vehemently and with such self-assured rectitude and conviction in your “https://erikaawakening.com/beginners-guide-to-becoming-vegan/” blog post. Baloney indeed (albeit with very nice selfie arse-shots). I’m actually a little embarassed for you, and I’ll abstain from ripping apart that text and subsequent comments made by yourself that diametrically oppose what you’re saying this month, it’d be just too facile. But then, I could anticipate your retort, your brain was malnourished back then. Yeah, yeah, how very convenient. You made the same claims that carnivorous diets had deleterious effects and provokes mental dysfunction in human beings.
Regarding what I see as the two central arguments of your post, A) that veganism does not result in any less suffering in this world B) that the vegan diet has an adverse effect generally on human health. If I address point A, here’s a link (yes we can all drop links in at the drop of a hat to bolster claims) to the World Health Organisations report on the issue. It’s holds a little more gravitas than vacillating blogged opinions wouldn’t you agree: fao.org/docrep/004/Y2809E/y2809e00.HTM
Here’s one extract:
“Although two-thirds of the world’s population depends on cereal or tuber-based diets, the other one-third consumes significant amounts of animal food products. The latter group places an undue demand on land, water, and other resources required for intensive food production, which makes the typical Western diet not only undesirable from the standpoint of health but also environmentally unsustainable. If we balance energy intake with the expenditure required for basal metabolism, physical activity, growth, and repair, we will find that the dietary quality required for health is essentially the same across population groups.”
Point B) – you do of course acknowledge the myriad serious diseases attributed to the western diet. It was Dr T. Colin Campbell, biochemist who specialises in nutritional science, who pointed out the strong correlation of these maladies and the non plant base diet. Here’s his site if you’re interested: nutritionstudies.org/ and a link within discussing B12 nutritionstudies.org/12-questions-answered-regarding-vitamin-b12/. Incidently, the man’s in his 80s and looks in fine health to me, not pale, emaciated, sickly or whatever other anecdotal evidence you cite attesting to the unheathly vegans. Now nutritional science is a deeply complex issue and not without controversies and vested interests, so we’ll always be able to cherry pick and paraphrase in order to support our particular point of view. We could go around in circles forever nit picking but utimately this would be futile. Veganism has as much a struggle to win hearts as well as minds. Facts and figures and drop down arguments on go so far. And it is clear your heart is not in it. Indeed you appear rather glib about the whole deal. Someone comments “Go and have a steak, you deserve it”. You “LOL’d”. It’s all just so amusing, such frivolity. And yet, puzzling, how one so formely sure of her moral stance on these matters can now behave thus, what ever happened to “meat IS murder?”. A little more humility is called for, IMHO.
Just one last closing thing, I notice this is not exactly a level playing field. Why do you let through the bad comments from people opposing your views yet filter out their good ones. Somebody else picked you up on this already but I’ve experienced this also. The one where I responded to the crass statements “I’m a vegan. I only eat animals that eat grass which makes them a reconstituted vegetable. Besides if god did not want us to eat animals he would not have made them out of meat.”, it’s vanished. Are you just trying to make this all one-sided to bolster your assertion that the vegan diet is addling our neurons?
If this reply sees the light of day, I’d be very interested to here your commentary, because believe it or not I am not wanting to disparage you, and I do readily understand and have witnessed many times the partisanism that vegans can often exhibit. I’d hope to be a little more objective than that, but who can tell.
No you seem to have missed the point. The moral line I have drawn is just as legitimate as the one you’ve drawn. In fact, I believe a vegan diet is dangerous for most humans and cannot be maintained under a doctrine of least harm. I feel embarrassed for vegans, who don’t seem to understand that the arguments they make hold no water at all. I wish they would nourish themselves so they could think clearly.
When I wrote that article, I had been vegan for about two months. I was under the mistaken impression that vegan would be sustainable. I did not know that my body was cannibalizing itself for nutrients that the vegan diet fails to provide. Unfortunately, I made the mistake of actually believing vegans in their completely false claim that everyone can thrive on a vegan diet. I have lived and learned.
Some confusion there in my last comment – Erika, not Cat, sorry :)
OH. MY. GOD. For so many vegans preaching love and peace, they are sure mean! All the best to you and your health journey, and thank you for sharing! Treat yourself to a steak dinner. You deserve it after all of these ridiculous comments :)
LOL … thanks Morgan.
Idiots banding together.
Go sheepl nation.
Sooo… You should celebrate, with death?
Are you going to tell me to ‘kill myself’ like you do to everyone else that brings facts that you can N O T deny, miss hypocritical?? What a crock of shit. You are so fake it’s absolutely ridiculous. If you actually cared about learning how to be a vegan the CORRECT way, the healthy way, if you actually did care about animals, you would LISTEN to the learned, experienced long term vegans that bring you FACTS, N O T just throw a little girl temper tantrum and tell them to ‘go kill themselves’.
Once again, HYPOCRITE.
Actually, it makes perfect sense. And we’ve now completely dismantled the Cult of Vegan:
https://erikaawakening.com/vegan-philosophy-collapses-contradictions-hypocrisy/
Wow! I have never read a blog with such terrible comments. What makes any of you better than Erika? What makes you feel that you can talk to other human beings like that? Being vegan? Being “enlightened”? That’s deplorable and every one of you should be disgusted with yourselves!
It’s pretty horrifying, isn’t it? And these folks claim to be compassionate. I mean it’s just shocking. I feel so embarrassed that I fell for their graphic images and guilt trips for as long as I did.
Hi
I am just curious what you were eating on plant diet ?
I went to doctor yesterday to do my tests because as a Vegan is advised to do it every six month.
And doctor in public clinic (who is obviously not vegan ) said that my results in August were above ‘normal’ and its no need to do it again so often (!) Only supplement that I might need is vit D and b12.
Everything else can be found in food…
I am really surprised how many health issues you have. Is it all related with veganism ?
Do you think that eating meat& dairy will improve your health or you need to change your eating habits completely ?
Cheers Marcin
I doubt you were tested for all critical nutrients, and blood tests can be inaccurate. The body will cannibalize itself, for example, if you’re not getting enough calcium. And blood levels will look artificially high. Were you tested for DHA/EPA, iodine, zinc, iron, taurine, etc. etc. etc.? How long have you been vegan?
I’m not going into a detailed analysis of my diet with you. Regardless, I hope you are doing great on the diet. It still proves nothing about the diet for anyone else. I’ve got dozens of vegans on these comments saying – like complete idiots – “I’m thriving on a vegan diet so you can too.”
First off, probably a lot of them haven’t been vegan long so it’s meaningless. Deficiencies often take years to show up. Second, everyone has a different genetics and physiology. So what works great for one person doesn’t work for another.
And yes I already feel substantially better since I started eating animal products again.
I have had as much hostility from non vegans as you get from vegans. Some people feel threatened by difference and feel the need to lecture. I believe you are really stressed and need to deal with that stress. Why not look at doing conflict resolution and reading up on personality types. Then you will understand yourself and others. Best wishes
You’re right. My body was extremely stressed by a vegan diet. Extreme oxidative stress. Happily, things are now improving rapidly since I added animal products back to my diet. Just found another white hair that has turned back to brown. Amazing what proper nutrition can do.
As for the unsolicited advice giving, what personality type does that? I find it absolutely bizarre that you all come here to someone on the internet you’ve never met, have no rapport with whatsoever, and think “oh I’ll just tell her what to do.” Maybe you didn’t think before you posted. Maybe it never occurred to you to ask a sincere question instead of making assumptions about me.
And yes, Rosemary, non-vegans do often react to vegans as well. Probably if we could all accept that different people need different diets to thrive, we would be able to get along better. I think this implied obligation that we “should” do what someone else is doing is not helpful when trying to have compassion for each other.
come on now Erika, read every single symptom you posted, and tell me you realize you’re actually just getting old? What are you, in your 50s now? These things happen with age, even the vegan diet won’t stop them.
I would like to address many of the issues you brought up in regards to veganism and why you feel it is not worth it to remain a vegan, and why you discourage others from living a vegan lifestyle.
You spoke of how many vegans become “elitist” and are somewhat self-righteous in their belief system. Yes, I agree that this is true to some degree. I suppose this is true because they are so passionate about the cause they support and they do feel that they are “better than” and more “evolved than” their carnist counterparts. Although you may feel differently, and regardless of their education level or IQ, this is probably true to some extent. Many vegans, especially those who base their beliefs around the anti-specieism movement, have reached a level of consciousness that is not immediately apparent in carnists. For instance, if you ask a carnist questions about wearing animal skin or fur, or eating dead flesh, they will likely tell you that they have never given it a second thought. Vegans have contemplated these things, and through introspection have morally and ethically evolved. Does this make them “better than?” The term is subjective, so of course the answer is no, however, it does make them more aware of their impact on the other species, the environment and the universe. That goes a long way towards improving the quality the existence of all earthlings on this planet. Can all people live vegan? Yes, of course they can. Do we lack vitamin B12 and maybe some other vitamins and minerals? Sure we do. Point out one person in our Western society who does not. How about one person in the world these days who is not sheltered in a non-GMO farming town where everyone grows their own food and lives off the land. Is there evidence that plant-based diets are “better than” meat based diets? Yes there is..and a lot of it. New recommendations have just come out recommending that the sustainability of our planet is dependent upon us consuming the majority of our calories from plant-based sources. Is there a lot of contradiction in veganism, differing opinions, ignorance and what you call “stupidity?” Of course there is..but there are probably fewer “stupid” vegans than what exists in the carnist population. And you call vegans conformists? Are you kidding me? We cannot go to a restaurant, party or event without being the subject of questioning and often ridicule. At 2% of the population, we are hardly conformists. You get your information from a “life coach” and then go on to call yourself one? Please..other than possibly a horse whisperer or psychic medium, there is no bigger scam than the life coach. You say it makes no difference (or your life coach or someone else who is misinformed said it makes no difference) in the whole scheme of things to be vegan. Is that what you tell your clients? Their life does not matter? They as an individual make no difference? On average, one person who eats vegan saves 8000 animals over their lifetime. That is a huge difference. As a matter of fact, if you save one animal, it makes a difference…to that animal. Cliche, but so true. Although I am a vegan, what is more important to me (or equally important) is the anti-speciesist movement. This is the idea that other earthlings are not “things” that we can acquire and use. That is why vegans are against honey, riding horses and owning animals. Vegans and anti-speciesist do not hold ourselves above other animals. We believe they have an equal right to exist on this planet, free from the whims of human greed. Humans do not need meet. We are not by nature carnivorous. We have evolved to a point where we can live without meat. I believe you have allowed your “life coaches” to brain wash you into believing that going back to eating meat is ok. It is not ok. It will never be ok. I feel very sorry for you, but moreso, I feel sorry for those who fall victim to your ignorance, including both the animals and people you harm due to the misinformation you dispense. If you want to turn carnist and be a part of the problem, why don’t you just keep it to yourself? Why potentially add to the slaughter? Every person you convince to go back to eating meat will kill up to 8000 animals over their lifetime. The torture, mutilation and ultimate demise of these animals is on your head. Live with that life coach.
No. All people cannot be vegan. And some of us have realized that if B12 and other supplements are necessary to maintain the lifestyle, then there is nothing healthy or natural about it. Some of us also live with carnivores like cats whose natural behavior is predatory, and it becomes absurd to start slicing hairs. Are vegans doing less harm? Not in my book. By alienating most of the human population, I think they are doing more harm to animals. By keeping their focus on suffering and death, I believe they are doing more harm.
For me, the culmination of all this is that you’re not going to get these problems solved with a 3D solution, ever. And so clinging to a philosophy like veganism out of fear and guilt is a stumbling block to opening up the mind to new possibilities. Personally, I envision a world where harm becomes impossible because we change the ground rules. No diet can accomplish that.
It is all about evolution. As we evolve as a human species, we can provide the supplementation we need without causing harm to animals. If we can, why wouldn’t we? This is also true for the living with a carnivore argument. Cats are natural carnivores, humans are not. In addition, humans have the ability to reason this through and choose a compassionate alternative, so again, why wouldn’t we? Just because we are “alienating most of the human population” does not mean what we are doing is not the correct thing to do. Using your philosophy, we would still be enslaving people, women would not have rights, and you would definitely not have a law degree. It takes a few forward thinking people to make changes in the world, not those who take the path most trodden. See, that is where ethical vegans differ. We do not “cling to a philosophy out of fear or guilt.” We recognize the suffering that is caused to animals and the environment through carnism, and we work to combat it because we believe that earthlings (all other animals on this earth) are not ours to use. We do not believe that we are more important than other animals on this planet and that we can use them for our purposes. We believe every animal has the right to life and freedom we humans cherish. It is a basic freedom. It aligns with the idea of anti-sexism and anti-racism. It is anti-speciesism..animal rights. If you believe in animal rights, you have to be vegan. Anything other than that is advocating animal cruelty. You did not learn enough about veganism. It is not a diet. It is a lifestyle and a philosophy.
Humans absolutely are natural omnivores. And yes there is something wrong with using supplements instead of healthy food.
What you seem to miss entirely is you’re just trading one problem for another. And you won’t solve it with false vegan propaganda or any other 3D solution. Until you abolish the belief in death, you haven’t solved anything.
Meanwhile, how dare you point the finger at everyone else while you continue living and harming animals every waking day? Surely you would practice what you preach and help the animals by ending your life, if you actually believed any of this horseshit.
Oh and of course you must favor annihilating all the other natural predators out there, right? After all we should leave the deer and cows in peace to overpopulate and die of starvation and disease.
So do you only approve the comments that make it look like you “won” the discussion, lol? You are fighting for this so hard (probably because you are a stubborn right fighter for one), but also, just like most carnists, because the simple fact is..you want to eat meat..you want to wear leather..you never really gave a rats ass about the harm it caused animals. You never really recognized the animals you were (are) eating as individuals with personalities. You see them as a food source, and you like to eat them. What gets me is that you want to argue it is for health reasons in order to justify your failure. If you need to do that..do that. Why bring other people into the fold? Not enough animals dying for you? Maybe you can go work in a slaughterhouse. It might appease your need for cruelty.
I actually had a session with a client and I don’t mind my blog 24/7. I also step back from some of these comments for a while before I determine whether to publish them.
There’s no moral difference. I am eating fish and meat because that’s what my body needs. You eat “vegan” crops that result in endless slaughter of animals in all sorts of direct and indirect ways. The fact that you don’t put meat in your mouth makes zero moral difference.
It’s perfectly fine if you want to draw such arbitrary moral lines in your own life. Given that my body needs animal products, I have drawn the line in a different place from you. Veganism is akin to suicide for me, so the only way you can argue I “should” be vegan is if you are willing to take your own life in order to “save the animals.”
But see, I don’t expect that you’re going to get it, that you have no moral high ground here. No, what I’ve seen from most vegans across the board (including myself when I was in an under-nourished state) is that they think whatever arbitrary rules they made are “right” and everyone else is “wrong.” And that, my friend, is pure fantasy.
Funny how you deleted all of the fabulous rational comments I made and published the one where I was less than nice to you. Very interesting. Can anyone say agenda? It’s ok. I already copied it and will publish elsewhere.
Actually, I deleted your nastiest ones, and there were a lot of them. Sure, go publish it elsewhere. We’re done here. Sometimes I think you forget you’re talking to a human being. It’s easy to get brainwashed by the vegan cult. I know, I’ve been there. Take care.
Robin, you don’t seem to understand what the definition of “personal attack” is … which is why your comments are not being published. I’m not sure why you think it’s okay to go on the personal blog of a person you’ve never met and be abusive but it’s not okay here. And I find it very troubling how many vegans are like this. I sincerely believe it’s an issue of malnutrition and deficient brain and emotional functioning. I acted the same way on this diet, which is one of the reasons why I became an ex-vegan.
Yes. They can and in FACT, they SHOULD! and EVERY highly evolved human, nay, civilization, KNOWS this.
Einstein, Tesla, Leonardo di vinci, Jesus, on and on and on…. ALL VEGAN Or vegetarian. Do you think you are smarter than all of them COMBINED?
I have had enough of you and you’re L I E S. are you a fed? Who is paying you to spread this crap?
You have reached the WRONG vegan, girlfriend.
You’re ‘symptoms’ were because you didn’t know and still don’t know, what you were doing and I CAN and WILL prove it. Easily.
Do you not know that literally EVERY single DROP of protein on this planet, FIRST begins and COMES from plants??
This happens due to photosynthesis. Plants turn sun into amino acids, the building blocks of ALL protein.
You consider thine self ‘Intelligent’ and correct? Let’s go
I’m publishing this one as Exhibit A to “This guy seriously needs to get his brain nourished.” I’m not even going to try to be civil to these assholes anymore.
Look. This blog is all about you feeling better, nothing more, nothing less. Good luck on your “compassion”
It’s not possible to have any real compassion for anyone until you have compassion for yourself first. The vegan movement doesn’t come across as a compassion movement. It comes across as a hatred and self-hatred movement. If anyone thinks that’s actually helping the animals, they ought to think again.
@robin McDaniel- you took the words out of my thoughts. Thank you for enumerating the many flaws in this “life coach”s marketed stance. Just thank you. One thing I will never stop saying, is, when you think about the victim, then individual philosophies and subsequent lifestyle changes that arise from wanting to end the victimization become oh so easy and unburdened. No matter how small. Abolition of patriarchal abuse in its many forms- slavery, mysoginy in the form of gender control (suffrage, body autonomy) etc- always start small, always start and remain righteous, always present as uneasy, uncomfortable, confrontational, always require differing levels of individual and collective sacrifice, always yield small output initially, always attempt to remove the focus away from the victim and into the ONE, the SELF…
There are things in life that should always evoke certain emotions. Injustice, abuse, exploitation, murder should ALWAYS make one feel angered, frustrated, helpless, empowered, happy to not have been one of the victims, happy to be one who can do SOME thing, ANY thing to help. I hope that regardless of time passed, our guts turn, our eyes water in sadness and our minds and mouth explode in rage when seeing images or reading documetation of domestic abuse, child abuse, genocide, systemic social oppression to entire groups. Accounts of the German nazi Holocaust to the Jews, hungry and marginalized minorities, women stoned in Middle East and Asia for behaving like human beings … That should ALWAYS erode one’s feeling of a safe and comfortable existence. ALWAYS. To the point where you want to do something to change it. Starting with yourself. Thus Veganism, Feminism and Atheism are tied.
Yes, think freely, but by all means, THINK. READ. RESEARCH.
And for goodness sake, go get lab tests and medical assessment of symptoms instead of waiting around for years like this life coach who somehow confused tangible personal ethics and life commitments with an invisible hand that would sort it all out for her if she stayed a course. Who does that?
And even so, any of my CAD, COPD, CHF, OBESE, DIABETIC, ENDOCRINE-DYSFUNCTIONAL patients who are necrotarians all have not just some, but plenty of nutritional deficiencies and metabolic pathologies and some look “normal and healthy” but talk about walking dead. So the act of living, breathing expends our internal resources… We have that in common as members of the animalia group. That’s called maintenance. Everyone has to do this. Survival isn’t a mindless chore. Existence requires deliberate and derivative action.
However, WE, vegans, feminists, anti-theists, atheists, are actively seeking, taking action, behaving, talking, enacting, moving, DOING for us and for others.
The life coach is to be questioned in her professional ethics if she deems it necessary, as evidenced in the very deliberate action of blogging to sell her services, to utilize shaming tactics against those DOING and existing outside of their own benefits and interests. I don’t know to what “religion” or “leaders” she refers but I am it. My thinking mind is it.
Oh and about “killing babies” inconsistency: it’s not. Female and Male humans come equipped with similar and differing bodily functions. Men have the right to choose to throw out their semen which could be forced to be frozen to join women’s ova to form a zygote, and possibly turn into an embryo and possibly a fetus, viability withstanding. Women have had to FIGHT, DIE, SACRIFICE, BECOME ENRAGED, SELF-RIGHTEOUS to have the same basic right over what we do with our bodies and our functions. No babies.
Your argument is non-sequitur, in its simplest form inflammatory and designed to appeal to weak, uninformed, uneducated minds, Veganism not withstanding. But u got a business to run. You gotta have cautionary propaganda to juxtaposition the Vanna-White benefits of YOUR product.
Well, I’m not selling shit and I make no apologies for standing up for me, for ethical vegans who give of themselves for other species, for our own species by cleaning our planet with our individual actions, and for feeling ANGRY, SELF-RIGHTEOUS, and DISGUSTED with those who choose to hurt other beings and or planet; whether intentionally or by ignorance and ommission. So on behalf of me, my efforts, my son, the planet and environment I’m trying to leave for him, you can go develop gout and CKD from your delicious necrotarian slaughter all while polluting and undoing all my work for him! Now YOU are MEAN!
Minerva,
It is my ethical duty as a coach to recommend that you begin eating fatty fish immediately and not stop until your brain becomes coherent again.
In the meantime, those of us whose brains are functioning have collapsed the vegan philosophy, and we’ll soon be moving on to other topics:
https://erikaawakening.com/vegan-philosophy-collapses-contradictions-hypocrisy/
Myself and my whole family have been vegan for over four years, we get blood tests every year to make sure that we are eating the right things, and are deficient in nothing! You have to have sense enough to research the kind of foods that supply the kind of vitamins that your body requires…………apparently you didn’t do this! So don’t knock it until you’ve done it properly………..sound like an excuse to go back to eating animals, maybe they will do the same for you one day! So in the future if you are killed by an animal, we will know that your karma has caught up to you……….good luck with that!
Apparently Brenda, you don’t realize that humans are a hugely diverse species, and that other people’s genetics and physiology is not the same as your family. You may also not realize that it often takes years for the deficiencies to become apparent. And that blood tests may be inaccurate as the body is often cannibalizing itself to get nutrients from bones, teeth, etc.
I used to be a vegan myself. I thought that it was the most humane way to live and I most definitely shamed/judged people for choosing to eat meat. Factory farmed animals are abused and tortured and I didn’t want any part of that. After I developed adrenal fatigue, anemia and hypothyroid (with heavy supplementation) I realized I had to change something. I only now 1 other vegan, and since she cut out animal foods she looks 10 years older than she is from the lack of fat soluble vitamins (she also heavily supplements), and has developed uterine cancer. I’ve yet to see a positive example of a long term healthy vegan.
I feel much better eating fish, eggs, raw milk, beef and other animal products. I also feel morally ok with doing this because I buy these items locally from animals that are ethically treated.
Thanks for sharing, Jamie. The truly healthy long-term vegan seems to be very few and far between …
So untrue. There are numerous research studies that indicate vegans live longer and are much healthier than carnists.
As explained in the new article, there are absolutely no valid studies indicating that all or even most people can thrive on a vegan diet, much less “live longer” on it. And there is a great deal of evidence to the contrary.
https://erikaawakening.com/vegan-philosophy-collapses-contradictions-hypocrisy/
You wanted a healthy long-term vegan example? How’s Christie Brinkley? And then there’s me…with any diet, you need to make sure it’s balanced. My doctor says my blood levels are better than most meat-eaters. WITHOUT supplements.
Laura, it’s fine to give these examples. It just doesn’t prove anything. Some people can be healthy vegan. Many people can’t. For people who cannot be healthy on a vegan diet, “do least harm” also includes ourselves. A vegan diet was gravely harming me. I will not follow it no matter who argues with me. What works for Christie Brinkley is irrelevant to me.
Christie Brinkley is hardly a good example. She is a multi-millionare with a commensurate lifestyle, that includes unlimited access to the best resources that modern medical science has to offer, including hormone replacement therapy, and cosmetic surgery. Her career is one that is totally based on appearances. You dont know what she looks like in the morning. Every long term vegan I knew looked haggard and older than they really were.
Agreed. With celebrities, you never know how much “work” they have had done given that they have unlimited financial resources. I also agree that most of the long-term vegans I know look gaunt and haggard. One woman kept sending me her photo over and over again to “prove” that a vegan lifestyle is “healthy.” I didn’t want to be mean so I didn’t say anything. The truth is, her photos had been scaring the crap out of me for a while. She looks emaciated, haggard, depleted, and much older than she is. She is actually one of the many reasons I moved away from veganism. I had seen far too many of these vegans putting up their photos as examples of “health” when the truth is they look awful. Same with that Banana Girl. First time I saw her photo, I cringed. She looked anorexic to me. Come to find out she has a history of eating disorders and is now teaching tens of thousands of gullible followers to eat 50 bananas in one sitting instead of any real nutrition. I accidentally ended up in their Facebook group and was quickly ostracized for daring to question the party line. Removed myself from that group, and it was yet another blow to veganism in my mind. I think the vegan religion gets people disconnected from their bodies and intuitive wisdom. Everything becomes about these ritualistic and arbitrary “rules.” People who feel deeply guilty and ashamed about their very existence, and trying to find some solace or “return to innocence” in a hypocritical religion. That’s why it takes on the characteristics of a cult.
Vegan. Doing the least harm…. It’s a moral and ethical Stance, not just a diet. If it didn’t work for you, and you genuinely cared about the animals, you could never return to animal Products… You’d find a way. You were never a vegan…. Plant based maybe…. But not a vegan so find another label!
If you really cared about the animals, you’d take your own life. Because your very existence is harming them. And there are decent arguments that vegans actually kill more animals than non-vegans. One cow can feed a whole lot of people. I was vegan, and now I’m an ex-vegan. And we ex-vegans are not so naive as we once were. We are also growing in numbers, and more people discover they were lied to about the nutritional adequacy of a vegan diet.
Erika, you’ve chosen not to publish my other comments which were not inflammatory, but only addressing your research claims, so I’d be surprised if you published this one. However, I feel compelled as a someone employed in the mental health field to caution that your repeated comments regarding suicide are extremely inappropriate and perhaps potentially harmful, even though it appears you’re doing it not out of maliciousness, but defensives and the need to provide a dramatic counterpoint in arguments you can’t finish with critical thinking or reason. Suggestible and vulnerable individuals could find reading your comments distressing, and I’m sure as a “healer” you wouldn’t wish to be in the position of having caused psychological harm to others, or having enhanced their suffering. I doubt this comment will be posted, but I hope you read it and act more responsibly.
Why? That’s the logical outcome of veganism. Why would we not be honest about it? How can you justify the harm you are doing to animals just by living on the planet?
Wow..what a nice thing to say for someone who is supposedly a “holistic life coach.” You encourage someone to take their own life? Nice..You have got some nerve. You have no clue what you are talking about in this article. Nice job making money off the backs of 65 billion animals each year. Enjoy eating corpse. You disgust me.
Huh – what – the truth hurts? Oh wait, if we don’t draw arbitrary lines in the sand where it’s convenient for you, then suddenly there’s a problem? No harm to animals means no harm to animals. Why do you get to make up arbitrary rules about what animal abuse is okay and what’s not? Clearly if vegans cared about animals, they would cease to exist.
I am curious why you are so obsessed with suicide. In every other comment you mention it….it’s peculiar.
I also think the notion that there are two types of humans- those that thrive on a vegan diet…and those that just cannot maintain optimal health without meat – is nonsensical. Our physical traits indicate that we are herbivores, and I think we can all agree that human physical traits are basically the same. Like all the other animal species, our dietary requirements do not vary that dramatically from individual to individual.
If you don’t have the ability or interest in veganism, well, we all know there’s no law against exploitation…so you are free to do what you will. However, to put down veganism, because you have lost interest, is just sad. You may be able to convince some of your followers of the validity your new opinions…. but convincing yourself will be a much harder task.
Neither our physical traits nor our history indicate that we are inclined to be vegan in any way shape or form. Even cows aren’t vegan. They eat insects at the very least and some say they eat a whole lot more than that. It’s pure fiction concocted by humans driven mad by guilt.
I worked on a dairy farm for two years in high school. I know very well that cows at the very least eat their afterbirth. It is definitely not a vegan option. I have not witnessed them eating insects, but I haven’t seen them go to any effort to avoid eating insects either, and the way they eat, whether in a pasture or in a feedlot, avoiding the insects would be very nearly impossible.
I HIGHLY recommend reading the wonderful book by Will Tuttle – The World Peace Diet.
It is available as an audiobook via iTunes – this is cheapest way of getting it, and you can listen to Will reading it word for word. ;)
I have listened to it at least 5 times now, and am yet to tire of hearing it. :)
I feel it will resonate with you.
Thanks Cat, however I’ve been exposed to pretty much every variation of veganism and am done with all of them. Thanks for posting a non-angry, non-accusatory comment, it feels very refreshing.
You are welcome.
But please give this one wonderful book a go. If you are fixed in your decision than you have nothing to loose, or to fear, and possably some new knowledge to gain. :)
I listen to it at work, or when cooking, cleaning, walking, etc…
Also, you asked in an earlier reply to someone for convincing reasons to be Vegan – I highly recommend listening to/watching Gary Yourofsky’s ‘Best speech ever’ on YouTube.
It is over an hour long, though there are a great many far shorter pieces by him on YouTube.
Again, not pushing, just suggesting, as you asked. :)
Please do not push any further vegan bullshit down my throat. As far as I’m concerned, it’s all fraudulent. Thank you.
Gary Yourofsky’s lecture is full of lies and scientific inaccuracies made to make his arguments sound good. It’s pure bullshit.
Even his moral arguments become irrelevant once you do the proper research, like Erika did throughout this blog post.
Yep it was manipulation at its finest to push a one-sided agenda that is dangerous to human health.
Cat – highly recommended reading is The Vegetarian Myth by former long time vegan Lierre Keith. It will blow your mind.
If you believe that cruelty to animals is wrong you already believe in veganism. It’s better for our health, the planet, and of course the animals. My only regret is that I didn’t do it earlier.
Yea I used to repeat sound bites like that. Until I had the opportunity to think through things more deeply and realize it was a bunch of baloney. Vegans are killing animals left and right. They just try to keep their hands “clean” but it makes no moral difference.
Vegans are obviously responsible for LESS killing. That’s why it does make a difference. (Although i wouldn’t use the word “moral”)
Just less suffering.
And no, vegans love life, they don’t want to kill themselves just that it’s perfect.
I guess you want to get rid of duality altogether – then there would be a ‘perfect’ world of no death whatsoever.
Except then there would also be no life…
No, it’s not clear to me at all that vegans are responsible for less killing. They just don’t put the dead bees, snakes, fish, birds, and other creatures in their mouth. Hardly a basis for moral high ground.
Chris – please read The Vegetarian Myth by Lierre Keith. It will challenge everything thing you thing you understand about the superior morality and ethics of a vegan or vegetarian diet. Agriculture it the single most violent and destructive practice ever perpetrated on this earth by human beings.
Hello Esmee,
you are actually right: It all started with agriculture.
Before we evolved enough, sitting in the trees, we had the most harmonious connection with nature. (Even if we ate a little meat now and then. Chimpanzees for example eat meat RARELY. Gorillas are 99.99 % vegan – up to 30kg of plant material per daay, a few termites now and then)
HOWEVER, we are living NOW! With agriculture which is used to grow crops as ANIMAL FOOD!
It’s just so crazy INDIRECT.
The journey is clear: We have to start to eat the crops ourselves, not through the enormous energy waste through the detour via animals.
Thank you for this article. Although I’ve never tried veganism (have a hard time getting my brain around it) I agree with the need for more veggies. However, one of the things I’ve always questioned seemed to me very silly … if we all switch to a purely vegan diet will all the farm animals simply die of old age? Really, my concern is focused on the ethical treatment of livestock of all types rather than simply eliminating all traces of meat in our diets. And will someone explain to me why cheese and dairy is not allowed?
Hi Vicky, eggs and dairy forbidden because it “uses” animals, but also because of the large number of male chicks and male calves that are killed in the egg and dairy industries. Of course, vegans forget that their vegan crops are also killing vast numbers of animals. For example, the decimation of honey bee populations for the beloved almond milk: http://www.motherjones.com/tom-philpott/2014/04/california-almond-farms-blamed-honeybee-die
you said: “vegan crops are also killing vast numbers of animals”
Vegan crops are killing LESS numbers of animals. If we growed diverse different species of plant foods, best in a permaculture way, this number would even go down more.
Jungle in South America is being cut down to make space for monoculture soy.
Who eats this soy?
Right, the cows.
Up to 90% of it is being fed to animals.
the lung of the earth is being cut down.
All the animals in theses forests die.
the locals have to leave their land.
after about 5 years the soil is depleted.
More jungle has to be destroyed.
Just to feed our insatiable greed for meat.
Vegetables are not as healthy as you might think: http://www.diagnosisdiet.com/food/vegetables/
Please read The Vegetarian Myth by former long time vegan Lierre Keith for a thorough discussion of the very issue you raise in your question, Vicky.
The most important part of the environment is the sentient individuals who depend on it. On this measure, veganism is by far the best choice. This article — http://www.animalvisuals.org/projects/data/1mc
# animals killed per 1 million calories — shows that far fewer animals are killed to support a plant-based diet.
Furthermore, the animals killed for food are almost always killed young and have been bred to overproduce flesh, milk, or eggs, which takes a chronic toll on their bodies.
Suicide would be a better choice. Clearly you all don’t care about harm to humans, so the logical conclusion of your “philosophy” is to end your own miserable life so has not to “harm the animals.”
In comparative population studies such as EPIC-Oxford and the Loma Linda Adventist study, vegans fare well. The official dietetic associations on three continents state that well-planned vegan diets are healthy for all demographics. The Kaiser Permanente insurance company has advised its 20,000-plus member physicians to recommend plant-based diets to patients.
Most of the fear-mongering about vegan diets now comes from sources deeply vested in animal products, and the articles are dominated by blatant cherry-picking (sometimes using notoriously unreliable animal models) and speculation.
Based on my own experience, the numerous countervailing studies I’ve read, and the endless accounts of other ex-vegans, I don’t really care what these folks say. I don’t believe it. Plant-based with some animal products is a far cry from a strict vegan diet. And apparently even many of the famous “vegan” gurus had to start eating animal products to maintain their health. Of course, they wouldn’t want to tarnish their public image so they don’t disclose this to their unwitting followers.
Interestingly enough I found much more pro-vegan groups than ex-vegan groups on the net.
There are far more ex-vegans and ex-vegetarians than practicing ones. This is an established fact. Possibly most of us just get on with our lives now that we realize veganism isn’t going to solve anything :)
“Pay no attention to all of those people behind the curtian”
Gary,
I have never seen or heard of a vegan study that was not conducted by someone deeply vested in the vegan diet. I don’t deny in the least that the anti-vegan studies are done by those deeply vested in animal products. The soybean board is the primary source of funding for studies concerning the health benefits of soy (and they certainly aren’t going to tell you that the roots of the plant and fermented bean products [soy sauce and tofu] are the only healthy soybean products), the milk board is the primary source of funding for milk and their studies are primarily marketing, and the pork board is the primary source of funding for pork nutritional studies as well as the marketing slogan, “The other white meat.” None of these groups is going to admit or publish the dangers of their product but there are dangers to all of them.
You mention specifically the Loma Linda study. It was mentioned somewhere above as the Adventist2 study. As I said in a post answering that, this study is not specifically a vegan study. What it most definitely is, is a study primarily about studying the recommended Seventh-day Adventist diet which is NOT vegan, it is lacto-ovo vegetarian, although it did study veganism as well. I was raised Adventist and I can assure you their reason for supporting this diet is strictly human health and proving the truth of Ellen White’s 1863 vision that started the SDA health reform movement. Love for animals and other points of vegan philosophy has little to do with it. I also have little doubt that like all these other interest groups the Loma Linda group was quite willing to doctor the results at least a little bit to get the results they wanted. Adventists are just as willing as other Christians to cherry pick their Bible verses or other sources to to “prove” their other doctrines. They even completely twist (or ignore) the words of Ellen White for this purpose.
You simply cannot trust the words and research of ANY interest group; they all behave in the same dishonest manner while pointing the finger at everyone else for doing PRECISELY what they are doing. Did you know that Loma Linda University owed a “health food” division and Adventists were the inventors and original marketers of textured vegetable protein meat substitutes? I was raised on this stuff and even though it is not very healthy still prefer it to real meat.
Are you aware that the Kelloggs started as Adventist doctors (later repudiated by the denomination) working to prove and apply Ellen White’s health teachings in the Battle Creek Sanitarium? It was here that the breakfast cereal industry started. Post was one of their employees before he started his own competing company. Adventists also have their own story about how one of their own actually invented peanut butter and started using it and selling it locally before George Washington Carver invented it independently. Can you really trust researchers with this kind of agenda?
Sure, don’t trust the research of the interest groups pushing an anti-vegan agenda. The research is only as good as the group that paid for it. But don’t give a pass to vegan groups twisting the research of lacto-ovo vegetarian groups pushing their own agenda, or even the bought and paid research of vegan groups. It is no more legitimate than the research of these other groups.
The first Adventist study was never completed because enough actual vegetarian Adventists could not be found to conduct a reliable study, and the second study had not yet been begun when I was in high school and college, yet Adventists had been claiming since well before I was born that studies showed they live 10 years longer than the general population.
Amen.
Erika,
Power to you.
Well done on listening to your body, and having the courage and sensibility to research (scientifically) and then act on your (confronting!) findings.
You will make the world a better place.
Best wishes and good health to you.
Richie
In 2006 I decided for ethical reasons to give up animsl products. I knew I wasnt being true to myself, saying I love animals, yet I still eat them and promote the torture and foul conditions of factory farms and the pollutions and environmental impact of them.
I have remained vegetarian/vegan since 1st because of my moral beliefs and secind because of the health I gave received-and during this journey found abundant articles on the health benefits So while many of my friends and aquaintances who still eat meat and dairy are taking high blood pressure, cholesterol, diabetes, chronic pain meds, I am not. My last check up was great again. My numbers all low.
So though some people cant handle NOT being meat eaters, and some people can. I do recommend, at least trying veganism to see for your own journey where your strength, attitude and morals can go, you might be surprised in your own strength.
Thank you for acknowledging that not everyone is the same.
Animal products are not the cause of illness. Sugar and polyunsaturated vegetable oils are. Read The Big Fat Surprise by Nina Teicholz for a more thorough understanding of this. A vegetarian and vegan diet is not any more moral or ethical than a meat-based diet. Agriculture is the single most destructive practice ever perpetrated on this earth by human beings. Please read The Vegetarian Myth by former long time vegan Lierre Keith for a more thorough understanding of this.
you said: “Agriculture is the single most destructive practice ever perpetrated on this earth by human beings.”
That’s exactly why we must stop growing crops for animals!
Up to 90% of all soy for example is being fed to livestock.
Why don’t we eat the plants directly?
(An no, not grains or too much soy. We need a big VARIETY of different plant foods.)
you was follow a vegan diet without yourself be full conscious about it. you just follow a general trend in a very narrow way as i can see from your reaction now. you went from one side to another side and that shows you still doesnt understand yourself really why you doing this. you fell into groupism before into political veganism and the fanatism affect you. this is the political side of veganism one of the multi-dimentional aspect of veganism, and its not the main vegan aproach. spirituality is the main with the respect of life in all forms.
about the health issues you claim its just lack of knowledge to say and exsuse, what health issue solve your cheeseburger? know yourself is power, you jsut react as kid under your own mental complication
What a waste of time.
“Believe what your DNA tells you” then suggesting it is some kind of religion? Come on this is a religion then that is based on FACT so it is in fact a lifestyle that uses evidence and research
You say you did the vegan diet and yet you were taking supplements. What is that about? A proper vegan diet does not include supplements that’s where YOU went wrong. Then using the cravings defence (I wonder if drug addicts or sexual predators could use the excuse?) for failing at veganism is just your way of justifying to yourself your own weak will and lack of effort to actually understand and apply the principles of veganism in your life.
Then you go on and try to rubbish what is, for many who are more able than you to do it, (because they bother to do it right) a perfectly (often more and longer) healthy life on some blog to get attention (revenue from ads perhaps too)
Hello there, vegans are not a coherent group. there’s diversity in every aspect of veganism, from philosophy to food to communication. When I became vegan I read “Plant-based nutrition” as my bible which goes through all the evidence available at the time for what aspects of veganism are more healthy than an omnivores, and which potentially lead to deficiencies which must be avoided. The two key potential problems are of course omega 3 in their most bioavailable form, and vitamin B12. I have been supplementing with these two for years and I eat a balanced diet to get other aspects of nutrition from the rest of my food. Some vegans therefore are aware of potential problems in their diet. “Omivorism” doesn’t stop you needing to think about what you eat in order to avoid deficiencies and brings its own risks that veganism avoids. I’ts important to have a modeate balanced view of all this.
There are many other potential problems of a vegan diet, and I personally never experienced problems like this on an omnivorous diet. While anyone considering a vegan diet absolutely needs to read up on it ahead of time, doing so did not help my situation. I also cannot tolerate the algae supplements, and if the diet were truly natural and healthy, it should not be necessary to supplement something so basic as B12. I agree with you about moderation, and I don’t consider a vegan diet to be moderate. That said, I respect it works for you so long as it is not unethically imposed on other humans for whom it probably won’t work.
Erika, you claim: “There are many other potential problems of a vegan diet, and I personally never experienced problems like this on an omnivorous diet.”
Me and other people here remember your older posts where you described quite serious health issues. Have you not been on an omnivorous diet in those days? And still experienced health issues?
My near-death experience was due to a medical mistake. And people wonder why I don’t run to a doctor for most of my health issues.
Some of my other health issues, ironically, probably would have been helped earlier if I had understood about omega 3 to 6 balance. I was never eating enough fatty fish. Anyway, those I resolved with EFT tapping.
Too soon to say, but my skin seems to be doing better since I started eating fish, too. My food sensitivities seem to be resolving. Too soon to say though. We’ll see how things look in three months.
The authors of the book “The healing nutrients within” run/ran a very famous nutritional research center near Boston. When someone comes for a visit they get blood work done etc. The authors report that vegans had extensive deficiencies when compared to non vegans and correcting these deficiencies was very difficult within the scope of the dietary restrictions they chose. Read the book for details (a bit dated on nutritional science but tells a great story around how poorly vegans eat … unknowingly) …
Thanks, that’s definitely what my intuition says.
Did it ever occur to you that the vegans who have been around for decades and are healthy are doing it right and those who fail at it do so because they are doing it wrong?
No I didn’t think so
Selling something perhaps would put a spin on it that only the gullible and weak willed fall for
Vic,
A bit of trivia for you from the 1970’s. I got this off of Hollywood Squares, so I don’t know just what the source is but it did come from some medical study. The question to Redd Fox was, “Which group do most centenarians (people over 100 years of age) belong to; smokers or non-smokers?” Redd got it wrong when he guessed non-smokers. At the end of the show when the camera did his close up he had five cigarettes in his mouth.
It is not that those who have no health issues are doing it right and everyone else is doing it wrong. Smoking is definitely very bad for everyone. However, some people have very good genes and the damage smoking does to them is much less severe than what it does to other people. Or is it really that only the gullible and weak willed fall for the bullshit studies “proving” how bad tobacco smoking is for you and they develop these diseases and die early because they are “doing it wrong?”
I heard somewhere that there are zero centenarians in the United States who are vegan. I don’t know if that’s true. Would be interesting to know.
It feels like someone paid you for the article. I can’t tell you how many people have felt much better being vegan and how many people went vegan just to treat cancer and were successful, of course including me. Balanced diet is key. If you’re more attractive to screaming food, what else can we say? Because you and who believe you seen Ignorant, I’m compelled to share something:
Wow. I mean, just wow. Is that the best you can come up with?
Let’s see, is there a list somewhere where I can enter my PayPal email address and just magically have money show up for writing this article? Wow, that would be great. Please sign me up.
I’m so sorry you’ve had such a bad experience. My experience of other vegans and their hateful agendas is what has finally nailed it in the coffin for me too. I am walking away from the hypocritical, bullying, unsustainable movement that is veganism after just over 3 years and now reintroducing honey, chicken and shellfish into my diet which is what my body has endlessly been craving since I became vegan and until such time I feel I can return to plant based. I never wish to be associated with Veganism as long as I live. I respect your truth and honesty and wish you well xxx
Thank you annalisa, you summed up my sentiments perfectly :)
WOW I mean how much consideration or you yourself when you were taking your supplements (don’t see that in any vegan diet or cookbook so perhaps that is an indication you were doing vegan for selfish- image, fitness, fashion reasons) did your piece actually take of those (whole cultures and communities if you bother to look into it) who are successful in their vegan lifestyle (it’s not just diet as that would mean its less about YOU and more about how you affect the world around you)?
Meg – I would like to recommend you read The Vegetarian Myth by Lierre Kieth.mshe was a militant feminist vegan for 20 years. It was a disaster for her body just like it was for mine. Agriculture is the single most destructive and violent practice perpetrated on this earth by human beings. Millions of creatures have been – and continue to be – annihilated because of it. This book will challenge all of your dearly held beliefs. I was vegan for 15 years and my body fell apart. I tried every vegan way of eating offered from macrobitics to living foods. I was a research associate with the Gerson Reasearch Organization. Do you know what we discovered? The patients who included liver juice in their program – as originally recommended by Dr. Gerson – had a significantly better chance of recovery from their cancer than did people who only consumed plant foods and juice. That was an a-ha moment for all of us involved.
Esmee, you said: “Agriculture is the single most destructive and violent practice perpetrated on this earth by human beings. Millions of creatures have been – and continue to be – annihilated because of it.”
that’s exactly why we have to stop cutting even more jungle down, just to grow soy which is then up to 90% being fed to ANIMALS!
It is true that for some vegan it become a cult and an vehicle for the ego to thrive. Careful thou, you make it look almost inherent to vegans. If you experience serious health problem, it can be wise that you eat minimal animal product, but you should definitely have done blood test to understand where you are lacking. Maybe you could have just add a minimal amount of clams and be ok, if you actually care for animals.
I’m afraid the entire vegan philosophy has collapsed for me, under the weight of all its contradictions. I see no reason to do anything other than listen to what my body wants and needs … until such time as someone who actually cares about the animals (which I no longer believe is vegans, for the most part) steps up to the plate and provides the support necessary for a real solution. A real solution is not a diet, it is a quantum shift in consciousness.
Not once did it ever cross your mind to consult a health professional? The absurdity of not getting medical help if your were in “such bad shape” floors me. It doesn’t matter what you eat, if you can barely walk and are so weak, I’d haul my bum to an emergency room pronto! That discredits you so much. I can’t even fathom the ludicracy of half of this page. Even if I read this when I ate meat years ago, I’d still scratch my head in confusion.
Toni, I have a PayPal account. Feel free to fill it up with funds for me to go visit “health professionals.” Until you are willing to put your money where your mouth is, your commentary will receive the credence it deserves. Zero.
Maybe leave aside what you are putting in a box labelled ”vegan philosophy”
When you say you see no reason to do anything else than listening to your own body, do you mean that what you consume does not affect others? or do you mean that others dont matter?
A diet is part of the solution. An important one. It is true that consciousness have to shift before to understand that.
Your choices does affect other beings, be carefull to them. A lot of what I read in you’re article is true, but I feel you are in a ”Black or White” ”veganism or not” mindset. If you experience serious symptoms from a strict plant based diet, maybe you need to adjust, but if you are consious of others, still minimize your damage.
I mean exactly what I’ve already said about a hundred times. You aren’t going to solve this problem with a 3D solution. So if you are going to keep banging your head against the wall with veganism, feel free but leave me out of it.
If anyone commenting here actually gives a shit about animals, and I’ve seen no evidence that’s the case … then they will pull their head out of their ass and explore new, non-3D options.
Veganism is a great solution, it doesn’t solve the problem because so few people work on it.
It’s not being widely adopted because it’s not a great solution. It leaves out the critical factor of human health. Which is why you’ve got more ex-vegans than vegans. And if you keep converting people to vegan, you’ll have even more ex-vegans. Because lots more people like me will believe the misinformation up front, become vegan only to discover we were fed a bunch of lies. And guess what? Ex-vegans aren’t going to fall for it. We already know it’s a bunch of bullshit. So my suggestion would be to explore some new answers. But … you are free to do as you like. Carry on as you see fit :)
Erika you could do what all of us do in the real world and get a job that gives you health benefits? Since you are healthy eating meat now and all. I’m not giving you one red cent of my hard earned money. Money my blood sweat and tears went into to feed myself and my children. You could afford Harvard, but not medical insurance? What a total load of crap!
Yea I bet you won’t. One of the paradoxes of the vegan community is that while they want to “free” the animals, most haven’t freed themselves and still work in corporate slavery. I opted out of that system, and I choose not to purchase health insurance because I don’t believe in the system. I also don’t believe it should be necessary to get blood tests every couple weeks and run to the doctor constantly. So I took responsibility for my health and ended my vegan diet. And since you’re not paying my bills or living in my body, it’s pure arrogance to pretend you know better for me.
Eat some fatty fish, Toni. I promise you’ll feel better.
Toni, I wish you well on your path. Personal attacks will not be published here, and they will be construed as further evidence of nutritional deficiency. I suggest since you’re not willing to take on financial responsibility for the medical bills you suggest I incur in order to follow a diet that is not natural to humans and never has been … that you focus on your own life and not try to control mine.
Thank you for proving my point! *Claps* By the way, I run a daycare from my home and purchase my insurance. It’s not corporate slavery, it’s providing a needed service to parents. It’s also pure arrogance to think the world owes you a living. It’s pure arrogance to have this paranoia that you seem to have. I advise you to please seek medical and psychological help. This isn’t about veganism at all, this is about you being totally ignorant, and not seeking help. Even vegans can have health problems, nobody is a perfect being, but we can strive to do the best we can. A simple blood test once a year can help determine if you are lacking any vitamin or mineral, and you can look up which foods have those nutrients, and heal yourself. Even people eating meat need supplementation if they are experiencing a health crisis. It’s not about me knowing what’s better for you, it’s just plain common sense. Time to wake up and smell the coffee!
I consulted over 15 health professionals trying to figure out what was wrong with me. I was eventually diagnosed with Chronic Fatigue Syndrome. That was the best they could come up with. None of these doctors ever suggested that what I was and wasn’t eating might be the problem. None of these doctors offered a single solution to fix my health problems. None of them even remotely suggested that not including animal foods in my diet is what cause my body to collapse. I did not find going to doctors to be particularly helpful.
If this is your attitude, “animals are being killed in harvesting vegan’s food so fuck it, I’m gonna make sure animals die by eating them”, why should we care about anything? “Well, people are going to be murdered somewhere anyway, so I might as well murder too”. Throw your hands in the air and give up? Or take a stance against eating animals and demand better harvesting practices. You can find hand harvested food that uses veganic farming principals, you don’t have to give up ever.
Or learn some real healing skills, and stop trying to solve quantum problems with Newtonian “solutions” that will never work. I’ve made my position clear on what will solve this, and it’s not a vegan diet.
I have been a vegetarian for 20 years and a vegan for the last 13 years. Whenever I get blood work done, it comes back completely perfect. I’m not protein deficient nor lacking in anything. I care more for the life of animals than you do apparently. I’m guessing you were a vegan because of physical reasons rather than moral reasons. Yes, I’ve heard the argument that vegan diets kill animals to sustain, but these are unfounded studies thus far. I don’t put my life above any other sentient being and would never kill another living creature for food or clothing. I feel sorry for you that you know enjoy the slaughter of innocent animals.
Do you realize what an unbelievable jackass you sound like? Shall I go around suggesting that because there are men in the world who can lift five times as much weight as you can, that you should be able to do so too? What a jerk.
Be sure to let all these people know that veganism is unhealthy. I’m sure they’ll be instantly transformed by your extensive research. ;)
Alternatively, you could read and find out how they do it. I’m sorry you had a traumatic experience with veganism. It happened to me, too– a B12 deficiency after 8 months vegan– and I reverted to vegetarianism for a while until I was able to learn more. Then I discovered raw veganism, which gave me so much more energy I have been fully vegan for 12 years. I also take some of the supplements which you have mentioned. Dear Erika, you don’t have to give up. You can always come back when you learn more.
I have no intention of ever coming back to it. I don’t consider it a balanced or healthy diet. However, I respect it works for you so long as you don’t attempt to impose it on me.
I highly recommend reading The Vegetarian Myth by Former long time vegan Lierre Keith if you wish to a very thorough and comprehensive understanding of just how violent and destructive agriculture is to this planet. There is nothing moral or ethical about it and there is no way to do it successfully with out involving animals in one fashion or another. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but that is the reality.
Ignore the previous comment. I couldn’t find the Tweet button on my phone but I found it when I moved to the desktop. Great article!
I’m having trouble figuring out how to share this article on Twitter
Apologies … the tweet button tends to weigh down the speed of the website. Here is a tweet if you want to share it:
https://twitter.com/ErikaAwakening/status/585982825054117889
Thanks!
Good for you, Erika for Trusting YOUR gut! It is difficult to “fool” DNA that has evolved over millenia what it does or does not need in order to thrive. The hardest part of vegan dogma (in my personal experience) to understand is the unwillingness to accept that the majority of the world simply is NOT going to follow suit; that this is an “elitest” diet because as you’ve mentioned (heck, eating only meat is an “elitest” diet too!), you have to spend a lot of money on special foods and supplements. And even knowing that on a certain level, the outright denial that there is such a thing as humane and sustainable farming & slaughter practices that would help solve the supposed “evils of meat” that pushed them to go vegan in the first place (for many, not everyone)! Purposely turning a blind eye to REAL solutions for the problems they purport to be solving by NOT eating meat. Call me an optimist (or a fool) but I sincerely hope there will be a time when compassionate (high profile) vegans and compassionate meat eaters will UNITE AGAINST CAFOS! There are many evil practices that violate both of our ethics (even if we disagree on the morality of eating animals) – if only we could focus that rage onto the correct target – we’d kick some CAFO butt!
Fool your DNA? Seriously? She talks about a religion then you are attributing consciousness to chemicals in the cells of your body?
Then the ‘elitist’ strawman defence. If you do it to be elitist you’re just as egotistical as carnists. If you choose to be a moral being you would use your human morality to justify the necessity of your actions. Vegans doing veganism right don’t need “expensive supplements” end of story. Get the right kind and quantity of food then you won’t go wrong. Everything the human body needs (it’s a chemical engine afterall) can be obtained from plants and fortified processed foods (not in themselves an answer for vegans but an aid like say cooking flesh instead of eating it au-natural (raw)).
Attention seeking seems to be the common factor in much of those who fail at veganism suggesting they tried it for the reasons of losing weight (ego based on vanity) or fashion (ego based on vanity) not for the reasons of compassion and environment (ego based on compassion and social community).
We have a choice….. from a Vegan… thrivng in my twentieth year of living this way:
We change our ways, or we die by continuing to destroy the life support system on this planet. The #1 thing by far an individual can do to help tip this world back into balance is to adopt a plant based diet. Every dollar we spend is a vote for the world we want to live in or die on. When one buys animal bodies or secretions from animals they vote for a dead planet, where life as we know it is extinct.
Then Nature begins her regeneration… and will probably not try humans again.
Look around, things are changing rapidly, and change is accelerating. We humans need to get over ourselves, and our wants…. There’s plenty for all of us to get what we need, and not nearly enough for us all to get what we want.
Want clean air, water, food, an ocean that has life in it? Go Vegan. Want a toxic dying world with mass extinctions? Then fund the extinction with your meat-dollars.
It’s easy, and it’s delicious, and any human body can thrive as a Vegan.
Peace to you all, I hope we can turn this ship around.
-j
It is false that any human can thrive on a vegan diet.
“Want clean air, water, food, an ocean that has life in it? Go Vegan. Want a toxic dying world with mass extinctions? Then fund the extinction with your meat-dollars.”
Simple minds, simple solutions. Do you know what we call a belief the one’s actions can not just shape the fate of the world in a desired and predictable fashion but also absolve it? A religion.
So, this was something you were 1000% in favor of. You *knew* you were right. You wrote numerous articles saying basically neither world peace nor happiness could come as long as we are killing and eating our brothers and sisters.
And you almost had to die to change your mind.
So, now there’s a 180.
My question: why do you think we become so convinced about things that simply aren’t so? What do you do in your life to make sure you are right about everything else?
Is there anything else you think you might re-evaluate, or are you sure you are right about the rest of your strong positions?
Great writing!
Ryan, you gotta see this as part of a process. How else are you going to know what polarities are all about except by exploring them? In the context of healing, this is a valuable experience because now I know exactly where the ego consciousness double binds are that have to be resolved. It doesn’t really change what I wrote earlier about the problem needing to be solved. Death is not a solution. As I said in the last article, though, we are talking here about a massive transformation project that I am absolutely unwilling to undertake without massive support.
To understand how we can become convinced about the “rightness” of veganism or vegetarianism, please read The Vegetarian Myth by former long time vegan Lierre Keith. Basically,new are all so far removed from the reality involved in the practice of agriculture that we have no context for our beliefs. Agriculture is the single more violent and destructive practice ever perpetrated on this earth by human beings. But since no one lives on a farm anymore, we cannot see it. Out of sight, out of mind. No one should leave high school without reading this book.
I only need to say, your Cancer will be your karma. You have 7 years to repent or you will reap what you sow. This is not a threat, it is truth.
oooh scary
Knight,
Do you know how many life-long vegetarians I knew who died of cancer? True, few of them were vegans since the Adventists you people point to as your “proof” of the validity of the claim that this is a healthier diet are NOT vegan. Many of them have died of every kind of cancer known to man, even lung cancer even though they do not smoke either.
But I have an even better proof that this “truth” of yours isn’t even close to being true. I know even more omnivores that not only are older than 7 years old, still do not have cancer, and a great many of them are in their 80’s and 90’s and still do not have cancer or dementia — another “proven” risk of eating flesh.
The Okinawans are often also cited as “evidence” for the healthfulness of a vegan diet. Never mind that the traditional Okinawan diet is NOT vegan. They ate fish and eggs several times a week, plus pork for feasts. Most of this propaganda for a vegan diet is simply made up out of whole cloth.
The China Study, I recommend everyone read it and educate yourself. A plant based diet is one of the healthiest diets you can be on. But if your not eating a balanced diet of fruits, veggies, grains, nuts, ect your going to be lacking in nutrients just like you would if you were only eating meat. Balanced nutrition is key and if you want to avoid diseases such as heart disease, obesity, ect then you should avoid eating things such as meat, dairy, eggs. Like I said before, read The China Study and then you decide what to do with the knowledge.
The China Study has been thoroughly debunked: http://letthemeatmeat.com/post/1438446275/interview-with-an-ex-vegan-denise-minger
Oh yes and that’s a credible source to “debunk” the China Study… T Colin Campbell is one of the most informed, educated, experienced researchers in the nutrition world today. His career spans decades and he’s been involved in our nutrition scene for longer than most of us were alive. The meat head who wrote that post can’t hold a candle to him. But I guess you will believe what is convenient for you.
Yes I will believe my own body over vegan propaganda any day of the week.
Here is Denise Minger’s very thorough critique of the China Study
http://rawfoodsos.com/the-china-study/
Also, the China study has never been published in a peer-reviewed medical journal. Please read The Big Fat Surprise by Nina Teicholz for a thorough discussion of this.
Some people are so desperate for attention, they’ll even resort to killing and eating the innocent to get it.
You are supposed to know better.
This is an abolitionist movement, not a diet. It’s about the rights of sentient beings. It always has been and always will be. And your rights end where theirs begins. You are wrong.
Well then my dear I would suggest that suicide is the only position consistent with your ethics. Because you are causing harm with every breath you take. And you have absolutely zero moral high ground over any other human.
Thank you so much for putting this information out there! I started a WFPB diet after watching Forks Over Knives. It wasn’t long before I was having a lot of issues, from digestive problems (bloating, stomach pain, and really bad smelling gas) to severe joint and muscle pain. I was sore all over, like I had been working out hard when I hadn’t. I asked for help on the message board of Dr. John McDougall. People were helpful at first, but when I didn’t get better they accused me of being a troll. Dr. McDougall himself posted and said that no one on his diet has bad smelling gas – basically calling me a liar.
I suffered for about three more months (yes, I am very hard-headed) and finally gave up and went – of all things – on Atkins. OMG…it was like a blessing from God. I felt so wonderful I wanted to cry. My constant stomachache went away. I could get out of bed in the morning and walk across the room without pain in my feet, knees and back. And I stopped being angry and sad.
Grains also caused foot and back pain in me, as well severe digestive problems.
I finally had to just scroll all the way down past all the rediculous comments and leave one myself. I think you’ve made it abundantly clear that this was your journey and point of view, touching on the fact that it might be possible for some to be OK on this kind of diet. So the numerous comments about how “it’s working for me” are pointless. With that said, I believe EVERYONE needs to really listen to their body and take the time to document their OWN journey to see how beneficial their nutritional intake really is, this also should include having the appropriate testing done to be sure the are no deficiencies. Until that is all done, and the appropriate changes are made, can one truly argue that one specific way of eating is good for THEM (not everyone else). Like you said yourself, you didn’t feel right or healthy and you need a change. Why wait until it’s too late?
You seem to be a very superficial individual. I wouldn’t classify you as someone who cares about animals.
You haven’t committed suicide yet. You cause harm with every breath you take. You must not care about the animals.
What do your even mean by this?
Erika, you ought to address in a substantive manner counter arguments made against this before you continually go around suggesting people murder themselves. Do you believe in minimising harm to humans? Do you drive a car? If so why, because it is a statistical given that people will get killed due to accidents, and it might even be you who causes one. If you do drive then you are being a huge hypocrite, no? (if you don’t, no matter, the point I’m making still hold.) Of course, there are many actions we can take to minimise the death toll: not driving under the influence of drugs, observing speed limits, road signals etc etc. Even still, somebody somewhere is going to die, it’s a given. This is without considering the environmental aspects of driving.
Of course I believe in minimizing harm to humans. That’s why I can no longer support veganism. I firmly believe that most humans CANNOT BE HEALTHY on a strict vegan diet. It is vegans who are attempting to force this diet on the rest of the planet and harm human health. Please consider doubling up on vitamin B12 and DHA supplements, reading comprehension is poor.
https://erikaawakening.com/vegan-philosophy
I’ll have to answer ‘out of the thread’ as you keep terminating the threads without letting people answer back properly, no doubt so you look unchallenged in having the final say. You’re comment was a non sequitur (not to mention ad hominem, poor reading comprehension indeed lol. Kettle, pot?). I honestly think you’re suffering from some kind of cognitive dissonance, which is hardly surprising given your former stance on this issue:
https://erikaawakening.com/moral-relativism-serial-killers/
To quote:
“10 Biggest Lies We Tell Ourselves A picture of death, beckoning you to betray yourself and everyone else There is a Holocaust going on in our world, right under our noses. You see it every time you go to the grocery store. The carcasses of innocent creatures all on display for the taking, their lives torn away from them after a life of abject slavery”
… yada, yada, yada
How come you can you be credible now, why should people take your assertions seriously now, given your overweaning moral certitude (and proclivity to preach it on a very public platform to the world) in your other posts?
I’m only as credible as my current wisdom. As I often tell my clients and customers, nobody should listen to any “guru” including me above and beyond their own intuition. I naively believed vegans when they claimed there was no counter-argument or downside to veganism. That turned out to be false.
My healing method collapses dualities. In order to collapse dualities, you have to understand them first. This often requires thorough exploration of polarities. So people characterize me at times as “flip-flopping,” and they are correct. In exploring polarities, I will sometimes or even often flip-flop.
At the end of the day though, after flip-flopping, what you can come to is a clear understanding of the double bind in which you find yourself. At that point, you are empowered to use subconscious mind reprogramming to address that double bind and manifest a new and better answer at a higher level of consciousness. In this particular case though, the number of beliefs we are dealing with is so large that it would be foolhardy for me to attempt such a massive project by myself.
Hello Erika, have you ever read The China Study, or Preventing and Reversing Heart Disease by Dr. Esselstyn ? How would you presume to argue against their proven results? Your lack of credentials / sources cited here in this article leads me to guess you either just couldn’t handle being revolutionary or took a check from animal abusers to write this ‘meat puff piece’…
Haha but, sincerely speaking, I do hope you find a way to solve your health issues and still not support non-human animal murder, even though it is the ‘norm’ in our society.
PS:
please write off my sarcasm and annoyance at your tone towards towards non-human sentient being enslavement and murder as somehow due to my misfiring neurons caused by a lack of some fatty acids!
You mean the China Study that’s been thoroughly debunked? Yea I’m familiar.
It was ‘debunked’ by ONE person who wasn’t even qualified. But the Paleo people all think she’s some sort of authority. Dr. T. Colin Campbell completely debunked her ‘debunking’ and in fact wrote another book, called Whole, which further details his extensive debunking of the so-called ‘debunking.’
It was debunked, and when he attempted to debunk the debunking, she debunked him again.
Monica; There are many debunkers of “The China Study” like Dr Eades.MD Dr Chris MatsterjohnPhd. TCS is an observational study done on antoher observational study. ALL of the critics of TCS all say the same thing. The authors conclusions are not reflected in the original data. The vegetarian scientist Dr Gardner (A to Z diet study) of Stanford has also said this publicly. You know about Google, use it!!
[another personal attack from a vegan deleted]
The China Study was never published in a peer-reviewed medical journal. Read The Big Fat Surprise by Nina Teicholz for a thorough discussion of this. You might also want to read Death by Food Pyramid by Denise Minger, who thoroughly debunked the China Study here: http://rawfoodsos.com/the-china-study/
For a thorough discussion of just how many animals are murdered in the process of growing grains and beans every other annual plant food crop, please read The Vegetarian Myth by former long time vegan Lierre Keith. Agriculture is the single most destructive and violent practice ever perpetrated on this earth by human beings.
Have to be so offended with everyone else who has had much different experiences
With Respect! Perhaps when you call a blog awakening you actually are meaning unconscious trying to wake! I have been a Restaurateur for 20 years & have firsthand seen the SERIAL (as in Killer) depletion of species on our planet. I live in one of the most Biologically diverse countries (South Africa) on the planet where international poachers are killing animals for the sake of pleasure, prices & money.
Nobody is advocating poaching here. And how about we talk about the impact on animals and other cultures of the vegan need for “super foods” etc., being used to compensate for the fact that the diet does not provide adequate nourishment?
Erika, I invite you to listen to this discussion between one of the top Paleo proponents (Dr. Mercola) and one of the top Raw Vegan proponents (Dr. Gabriel Cousens). I think you will find much of value. Both doctors respectfully find some common ground, and then discuss their side of the debate. Dr. Mercola builds his case that humans need meat, and then Dr. Cousens completely outclasses him with sound logic, a superior command of the scientific research, and, most importantly, abundant clinical experience. Your experience is real. Clearly, your body needed something. However, Dr. Cousens has worked with hundreds of people who wanted to be vegan but failed to thrive, and he has figured out why: It’s a difference in metabolic typing. According to Dr. Cousens, a certain % of humans require a different ratio of fats to carbs and protein. The key here is that these needs CAN indeed be met with a vegan diet! He claims a 100% – yes that’s right 100%!!! success rate with HUNDREDS of people who had trouble thriving on a vegan diet. I encourage you to listen to this discussion in its entirety. It may provide some solutions for you. Yes, going back to eating dead animals can solve your problems temporarily, but do you really want to support that? IF there was another solution? There is indeed – and Dr. Cousens has found it.
Oops, here is the link. If this one ever quits working, just search for ‘Cousens Mercola’ on youtube. Note that there are several parts. youtube.com/watch?v=9As-uy1V13Q
I am no longer convinced on any level that a vegan diet is morally superior to any other diet. So I am really not interested in doing any more gymnastics to attempt to adhere to it. The vegan philosophy collapsed under the weight of its own contradictions. The logical outcome of the philosophy is that all vegans should commit suicide in order to “do the least harm.” Sorry, that kind of martyr bullshit is not for me :D
Hold on. You’re not interested in hearing the 2 top experts in their respective fields – vegan and raw-meat Paleo – have a respectful discussion? Both are MDs and discuss the science. No moralizing at all. Are you saying you have nothing to learn from either of them?
Won’t change a thing. My body has spoken and so have the bodies of a growing number of ex-vegans. No intellectual argument is going to override the wisdom of my body.
Your body has spoken that it had an imbalance, yes. But that doesn’t mean that eating meat is the only solution. Why are you limiting yourself?
I’m not limiting myself. I’m eating fish, eggs, dairy and meat, and I feel a whole lot better.
I don’t aspire to be vegan anymore. I no longer believe it’s a morally superior way of eating. I no longer believe its a suitable diet for most humans. I’m done with it.
And pushy, nasty vegan behavior on this post and my other pages made it very clear to me that many vegans who claim to be thriving are not thriving at all.
I’m not pushy or nasty, and I’m thriving. I have a 26-year-old son who has never had a bite of meat in his life. And I think you know that there are plenty of vegans who are thriving, including many athletes. But I realize that doesn’t matter, if you didn’t thrive. I get that. What I meant by ‘limiting yourself’ was limiting yourself to only 1 solution (adding meat and dairy back in) instead of opening your mind to other possible solutions (listening to the Mercola-Cousens discussion). An evolving, awakened being knows that there is always new information out there…why not be open to it?
Because, as I’ve written in the new article, for me the vegan philosophy has collapsed. I see absolutely no reason to put myself through further health issues and lifestyle gymnastics to adhere to a hypocritical, arbitrary philosophy.
I have said many, many times now, these problems will not be solved with diet. These problems will not be solved with 3D thinking. I am no longer interested in veganism as an “answer” to anything:
https://erikaawakening.com/vegan-philosophy-collapses-contradictions-hypocrisy/
THANK YOU for this! You articulated SO PERFECTLY what I’ve been feeling for years about veganism. Every vegan I have ever known has been incredibly self-righteous and inflicts guilt on those around them for eating any animal product. It’s no longer about “health,” it’s about making sure everyone knows that you’re vegan and how amazing you are because you are so disciplined. One of my closest friends is a vegan who, at this point, eats green vegetables and 2 or 3 different fruits. The more she’s cut out of her diet, the more her body has rejected and begun having reactions to. Whatever happened to balance? One can easily eat a balanced, nutritious, HUMANE array of foods. I know because I do so each and every day. And I, too, just like all of these vegans attacking you, have low blood pressure, low cholesterol, workout daily, and am in the best shape of my life. I’m also looking forward to making steak on the grill for dinner tonight. Thanks again, Erika.
Yes that’s what was happening to me, I was becoming more and more sensitive to the point of not being able to eat anything. It’s already eased up a lot in a few weeks of eating animal products. I appreciate the support.
Why isn’t there a comment option? I only see a “reply” option so I had to press “reply” in order to comment… Frankly, of all “ex-vegans'” explanations on why they’re no longer vegan yours is the only one that seems sound and logical. I must admit it is evident that you have tried, ate well and balanced, and still experienced difficulties and issues, therefore I cannot judge you, even though I am ethical vegan and my feelings for the suffering of animals are very strong. I was vegetarian for some 10 to 13 yrs before I became vegan 2 or 3 yrs ago. At the beginning, it seemed easy, and nobody seemed interested in nutrition. Where ever I searched, all were the claims how – vegans get everything they need from plant-based diet. Only for the past couple of months did I start digging deeper and actually realizing that there really “is” quite a few nutrients that vegans may be lacking and need to supplement – B12, epa and dha, as well as vitamins A and K2, and iodine as well. I didn’t know these things at first. And even if I questioned it, most vegans would usually just dismiss it and say how they have been vegan themselves for quite a long time and feel great, that there is no need to worry. So I didn’t. But lately I started researching more, and all of the nutrients you listed above (at the end of your article) – I found too that we are lacking them and need to supplement. Today I went to pharmacy to get B12, epa and dha from algae, and iodine supplements. But unfortunately, none of it was vegan friendly, and when it came to epa and dha, the pharmacist told me right away that I will not find those derived from algae anywhere here where I live. I checked other pharmacies and she was right. Now, reading your article and reasons why you are not vegan anymore, I am starting to question my diet even more. I do not have, and never had, any of the physical symptoms you numbered above, and I never even had the chance to eat properly and balanced on a vegan diet due to financial difficulties ( I am jobless at the moment and I live in a non-vegan household so I don’t really have much to choose from when it comes to food), however, the problem that I personally have is very sensitive nerves. I have been struggling anxiety and depression for years, and for the past few years it got worsened. For the first time I started connecting this to my diet, which is why I wanted to get epa and dha in the pharmacy today, and now, reading what you wrote (as well as your other article – why are vegans so angry, a half-baked theory on omega 3) I definitely see that there is connection. Most of the nutrients I might be lacking are crucial for healthy nervous system. If I could supplement epa and dha it would be great, but I cannot find from algae, and even if I could, I know it is too expensive for me. This is why I am considering to include at least fish and eggs into my diet again. But it is going to be a tough decision for me. I am ethical vegan, and I am not sure I want to contribute to the slavery and exploitation of animals in any way. All meat (except fish) and dairy I absolutely detest. I simply don’t like it and I cannot eat it, I am disgusted of it and always have been. But I cannot neglect my health, and the fact that something in my diet is simply missing, and I feel I could correct it by consuming fish and eggs. Honestly, it’s a tough decision for me and I don’t know what to do. I was planning on staying vegan for life, and I was very sure of my decision. I still am. Just I wish supplements were cheaper and more available to everyone. I know they would work for me because I don’t have any allergies and I am not sensitive to any foods. But unfortunately the problem is that in my part of the world, where I live, I just don’t have access to those supplements.
Hi Angela, I feel for your dilemmas. While my situation is not exactly like yours, there are a lot of similarities. I was also certain I would stay vegan for life. However, I did not understand what it is was doing to my body. And just so you know, I was using those supplements, and they were still not solving the problem. Supplements are not a replacement for real nutrition from food. I hope this all works out for you, and you find the right choice for your health and your ethical values.
It is my sincere hope that eventually those who care about the animals will accept my invitation to embark on the process of transformation. That, to me, is the only real solution here. Because right now we are left with countless ethical dilemmas and no acceptable answers. We could solve that problem, it’s just going to be a very big transformation project.
Hi erika. I agree that it’s always best to do what’s best for you. I just wanted your opinion really…I became semi vegetarian about 9 months ago. I say semi because there are certain meats I just cannot say no to and i will not deprive myself if i feel like them. The village, homemade sausages here in cyprus for example. If they are on a table in front of me I WILL have one. I became semi-vegetarian purely for slefish health reason. Any other positive things to come from it were just a bonus. I was worried about what big meat production companies put in our food i.e hormones etc. I knew from the get go, I would not be strict, I would still eat fish, I would eat MY chickens that i raise and naturally and every now and again when i fancy the venison on the dinner party table, I will have some! anyway, what i wanted to ask is, with your research in mind, do you think my diet is giving me enough nutrients? I eat fish about 2/3 times per week, chicken once a week/fortnight and some red meat that is family raised say once a month. What do you think? Look forward to your view. Thanx Kaela
Hi Kaela, wish I could help here and I’m just not in a position to do so. I think you got to listen to your body and your intuition. Everyone’s body is programmed differently, and it seems to matter a great deal how we balance out our nutrients. From listening to other people, some need a lot of meat and some feel best with barely any. Some develop deficiencies on a diet that would be perfectly adequate for another person. Wish I could be of more help!
Hey I just spoke with your “steak”s young child, she said she misses her mommy and wonders how anyone could call her murder and butchering humane!
Everyone eating or contemplating eating a vegan or even vegetarian diet needs to read The Vegetarian Myth by former long time vegan Lierre Keith. I wish I had this book available to me 25 years ago when I made the most disasterous decision of my life to become a vegan. This book is so important and so powerful that it should be required reading foe everyone before they leave high school.
Without knowing exactly what she was eating, it’s very difficult to assess this list of symptoms. She doesn’t seem to be aware that micro-algae is a direct source of DHA & EPA. Of course, there are plenty of carnivores who need vitamin supplements (look at what happened in Super Size Me!), not to mention drugs for high blood pressure, diabetes, osteoporosis, heart disease, cancer, & sleep apnea!
Expensive, untested algae supplements were discussed in a prior article. I stopped taking them because they made my skin break out. It is not possible to take them safely at a high enough dosage to achieve and optimal omega 3 to 6 balance.
Next.
Algae, chlorella, spirulina, and other green ‘superfoods’ are NOT untested. They have been consumed by humans for thousands of years. I personally have been consuming them for 30 years. The skin breaking out is detox and normal when one starts consuming such superfoods. Also, you mentioned that you were thirsty all the time – remember when I told you that the water you were drinking was oxidizing? We are evolving, Erika. Going back to the caveman days isn’t the answer. Whether you eat meat or not, foods don’t have the nutrients they used do, due to chemical farming. It is true that SOME people have some issues, due to metabolic typing. For them, superfoods like bluegreen algae are the ANSWER! I suggest that you open your mind to them. It makes no sense to eat meat when superfoods could solve your problem.
I’m sorry but Algae Omega has been around for thousands of years? Wow I didn’t know they were making such sophisticated capsules back then.
No, the truth is that virtually no human society on this planet has ever been vegan because it’s akin to suicide.
What an odd thing to say, for someone who claims to be ‘awakening’ and ‘evolving.’
I tried all of the algae products and they all made me ill.
The only time I’ve ever seen anyone feel sick from algae was when they had been exposed to toxic chemicals. We had 1 guy who broke out in a rash all over his body, after ingesting some bluegreen algae from Klamath Lake. He went to the doctor and, upon examination, it turned out that every little bump had a sliver of asbestos in it!! Turns out he had worked in construction for many years and had been exposed to asbestos. The skin is an eliminative organ. The algae triggered an immune response, resulting in his body expelling the poison through his skin. I’ve seen other people feel nauseous and the solution was always to drink more water and let the body flush out the chemicals. As Dr. Cousens explained to Dr. Mercola, we live in a highly toxic world, and are exposed to hundreds of chemicals, EMFs, radiation, etc. that our ancestors never had to contend with. Not to mention vaccinations, medications, etc. which all leave a chemical residue in the body. These superfoods flush out the poisons from the cells, so temporarily, the person might feel sick. This is a sign that it’s doing its job.
You all keep telling yourselves that major health issues are just “detoxing.” Myself, I will continue eating animal products.
“What? your brain is shrinking? don’t worry you’re just ‘detoxing.’ Your body is just telling you that you don’t need a brain anymore, it was just weighing your head down.”
That about sums up vegans’ reasoning on health issues :D
Erika, there is a simple way to make the distinction: Detox is temporary. A few days, maybe a few weeks, tops, and then you feel fabulous. Serious health issues don’t go away. That’s the difference.
Right. When people’s teeth rotted out of their mouth, that is not detoxing. That is simple malnutrition. But vegans are sometimes so crazy that when I was at my lowest health-wise, several vegans were trying to push a 60-day water fast down my throat. That’s how out of touch with reality these people are. I am 5’5″ and 110 pounds and was clearly experiencing major electrolyte imbalances among other big problems. A 60-day water fast probably would have killed me. But these people are not thinking clearly. Their stubborn attachment to one failed strategy has them trying to salvage it even with the most patently ridiculous means.
If only I would do a 60-day water fast, all my problems would be solved! Never mind that I’d probably be dead. They simply could not accept that my body cannot absorb the nutrients in high enough quantities from plants. So a water fast is supposed to be some “cure all” so that magically my body is going to start producing these nutrients all by itself. Sorry, this is just irresponsible and dangerous baloney.
I agree that a 60-day water fast would be very depleting for most people. Even those who believe in detoxing the body don’t recommend water fasts! Most don’t anyway. It’s unnecessarily stressful and depleting. I’ve done juice fasting many times (1-2 weeks at a time, max) and it’s very energizing, never depleting. But water fasting is a whole ‘nother thing, NOT recommended! Whoever told you that is nuts! But most vegans have never even fasted at all, much less water fasting, and even less such a long water fast! You seem to be implying that vegans all do 60-day water fasts. That is absolutely absurd! To conclude that veganism is an unhealthy diet, and give as one of your reasons “Some crazy people happen to be vegan” is faulty logic.
Plus, even juice fasting can be overdone, no question about it. There is an issue of toxicity, and there is an issue of depletion. Those are 2 separate issues. Many people have both, whether they eat meat or not, due to chemical farming, GMOs, pesticides, loss of nutrients in the soil, etc.
Hence, superfoods can fill in the gaps, for anyone, whether they eat meat or not. Superfoods both detox AND nourish at the same time.
Well, at least we can agree on something :D
Great article! Very well thought out and logical. I became a vegetarian at the age of 22, not for ideological reasons, but just to try it. I never craved meat, so I figured my body didn’t need it. After 11 years as a vegetarian, I found myself overweight, constantly hungry, fatigued, had constant stomach aches and bloating, and I suffered from severe depression. In searching for weight management advice, I was led to the work of low carb advocate Gary Taubes. I switched to a high fat, low carb, whole foods diet and my life was forever changed. I’ve been able to maintain my weight for the first time in my adult life, and have no more stomach issues. The biggest surprise was the effect it had on my mood. I almost feel guilty for how happy I feel now, in comparison to my vegetarian days.
Thanks for sharing, Lindy. I think what’s very clear from reading lots of people’s stories is that we all have different biochemistry. So what works for one, won’t work for another. Then the idea of a universal vegan diet as a “social justice movement” just becomes absurd.
Hi Erica, I don’t know if you remember me but we worked together a few years ago. I saw this story on my FB newsfeed in one of my nutrition groups. “Hey, I know Erica!” ha ha. I’ve read so many stories in the last several years that reflect yours, ex vegans who experienced similar health issues, and then came back to eating animal protein. I found your post to be extremely well written and your comments to the naysayers very lucid. Your post tell me that you didn’t just do this veganism thing willy-nilly. You were thoughtful and mindful about it. Thankfully you saved yourself before the nutritional deficiencies could screw you up for good. You’re right, not everyone can thrive on veganism, and the recent declaration by the Dietary Guidelines Committee that “veganism is best for the planet” ought to be thoroughly blasted.
Great article. I was vegan and ended up losing my hair and starting to get arthritis among other things. My husband was vegan even longer and had that gaunt emaciated look. We felt great at first but after the first year it started going bad health wise. Doing much better now on a paleo type diet. Basically feel 10 years younger. It just was not sustainable for us.
I’m so disappointed. I’ve been an exceptionally healthy vegetarian for 20 years (I’m 52 and have the health statistics of someone half my age) and tried to take the next logical step up to a vegan diet, solely for indisputable ethical reasons. I didn’t think it would be much of a leap since my dairy consumption was light and I haven’t bought eggs for years, though hadn’t avoided them as an ingredient. I have no issues with body image so I made sure to avoid cutting calories, and as a cyclist I’m careful about getting enough protein to maintain the muscle development my sport requires, so I tried to make up for the dairy protein with plant sources. I’ve never been a junk food vegetarian and didn’t become a junk food vegan. After two months the heartburn, which I’d never experienced (I had to ask someone what that awful sensation might be), floored me.
I also had been “successfully” vegetarian eating very little eggs and basically milk in my cappuccino ever morning, for 2.5 years. There is no comparison between even that minimal animal product usage and strict vegan. Although, in retrospect, the omega 3 and B-12 deficiencies were probably already creeping up on me. It’s unfortunate your comment devolved into personal attack and immaturity because I had to delete it and only publish the portion of your comment that was honest and valuable.
From reading this article it sounds like you never really fully understood the ideas of veganism. It is the most compassionate and environmentally friendly way to live. You complained about being malnourished while you were not using supplements effectively (despite spending ‘thousands’ of dollars on them) and clearly were not informed about how to eat as a vegan. I think it is not only ridiculous you to bash veganism because of your own bad experiences, a direct result of your poor understanding of your body but it is also immoral. You are promoting environmentally unsustainable animal farming, something that has been and will continue to slowly destroy the planet.
If you do not want to live ethically that’s your choice but I think it is wrong for you to look down upon the practice.
Lars
Animals are suffering right now as a direct result of your flawed decision to continue living. If you really understood the philosophy behind veganism, you would get that the only morally acceptable option is to commit suicide. That’s how you can do the least harm. I’ll be watching to see you practice what you preach before I change anything. I’m confident it won’t happen :D
Dear Erika,
If you think this:
“For me, veganism was about the end of death, literally. I want to abolish death on this planet.” are animals not alive in your cosmogony, therefore you are not inflicting death on them?
I’m baffled -and amused- by the so many wrong statements of your article, but the worst part is: you are a coach! Poor souls.
I wouldn’t expect you to understand, as I am speaking on a different level of consciousness. If you want to abolish death, you’ll never do it with a diet. Vegans are as much death worshipers as anyone else. They still believe in death, bow down to death, and don’t have the foggiest clue what could be done about it.
I’ll say it for the umpteenth time. If you want this problem solved, learn how to reprogram the subconscious mind.
I have been a vegetarian/vegan all my life. My protien, D and B12 levels are always excellent, as well as all my other levels.
Why all this drama? You were never a Vegan in your heart. You tried and it didn’t work for you for whatever reason. But don’t blame health reasons because you’re just wrong about that.
Enjoy your dead animal flesh!
I am so thrilled that vegans have done such a brilliant job of showing the world exactly what I wrote about in the article. What a bunch of insufferable jackasses. My God, thank God I woke up out of the stupor.
Thank you for sharing your story. I, too, am a recovering vegan. I ate a vegan diet for 15 years. I felt worse and worse over the years until I was finally diagnosed with Chronic Fatigue Syndrome. I tried every version of veganism I could find, from Kushi’s Macrobitoics to Wigmore’s Living Foods to Graham’s 80/10/10 Fruitarianism. I ate only whole natural foods through out my entire vegan journey. I drank an enormous amount of green juice over the years, and this is probly what allowed me to stay vegan for so long. But, no matter what I ate, I felt terrible. I became sensitive to every plant food in existence. [I now know that my reactions to plant foods was due to the fact that I developed salicylate intolerance. Salicylates are present in almost all plant foods. A vegan diet caused me to have impaired mitochondrial function (and CFS), and this – in turn – damaged my ability to properly metabolize salicylates.] Out of complete desperation [weighing only 87 lbs. at 5′ 6″], I finally end up trying goat milk yogurt and found that I could eat it. I lived on nothing but goat milk goat for a full 2 years. It saved my life. I am now eating an all-meat diet. But healing the damage caused by my vegan diet does not happen over night. It a long, slow process. You can read about my journey here: https://eatmeatdrinkwater.wordpress.com/about-me/ I also recommend the book The Vegetarian Myth by Lierre Keith, another recovering former long-tern vegan.
I guess it depends on a person’s body or maybe blood type for this diet to be effective. I still believe in this diet since I have an aunt who has been a vegan for 20 years now and she doesnt feel weak and doesnt get sick too often. Im sorry it wasnt for you. The important thing is youve shared your experience and that it doesnt mean it is generally the same with other people. For the real reason of people going vegan–yes I am also an animal welfare advocate. I am heartbroken when I see abuse or inhumane killing of animals. But Im having a hard time going vegan since this is what I eat since childhood and my body has been used to it. My dad also says animals are our source of protein and we need it to be strong. I dont have my source but this is just how I feel. For the animals, I am willing to reduce my meat in take (more likely to eat fish) and fight for animal rights through a more humane way of killing.
WOW…..THIS IS AMAZING…..ALL I HAVE TO SAY TO THE VEGANS IS…”YOU REALLY NEED TO EAT A CHEESEBURGER”…..YOU DEFINITELY HAVE SOME ISSUES AND I THINK A BURGER MIGHT HELP!!!! WE HUMANS ARE MEANT TO EAT MEAT.
DICKHEAD
He might have a point.
This must be a joke, no real Vegan would ever eat meat again. Sorry to say it but thats the truth. Get creative, eat more, check if you need to eat more of something yeah why not, but so should most that eat meat.
Lautaro, are you volunteering to pay my medical and dental costs, is that what I hear you saying? Because I have a PayPal address where you can send the many thousands of dollars … just let me know. Thanks.
Don’t get me wrong, Im just saying, why did’nt you just try and find what you needed in fruits,vegetables, grains? its all there, talk to a dietist.
The benefit of being Vegan is for the whole world, but you know all about it(?) I just dont understand how someone could read about all the good that Veganism can do, about all the suffering that is going on, the billions of animals suffering
And still go “I needs my cheesburger”, I promis you, you never went Vegan to start with, if you did then you would never go back. Its a process.
IF you really want to go Vegan then you can.
So for all reasons, personal and for the world, Go talk to a well educated dietist ;-)
Much Love
My PayPal account is open and available for you to send me thousands of dollars to follow your prescribed health care plan. If you’re not willing to put your money where your mouth is, you don’t have much credibility, do you?
All I hear from you is excuses. Trying to hide behind the masses and say “they can’t do it either” is such a lame poor excuse. Vegans don’t stop eating animals to save the environment, they do it out of compassion for animals that never asked to be born, or end up on your plate. Just say it’s too hard and the animals are not worth it, but please don’t make silly excuses. It just makes you look pathetic. Your life is yours and you can quit anytime you want, just don’t make ridiculous excuses to backup your decision.
If you truly cared about the animals, you would never leave your house. You would never eat anything. You would never touch anything. You wouldn’t be typing on that keyboard.
Lautaro……you’re 100 % correct in what you said….it’s THAT simple. ..I find it extremely cruel that anyone would use any kind of pathetic excuse to eat an animal? ???
Anyone that says a vegan is not for them is not doing it right !
As long as you vegans refuse to acknowledge the obvious – that many humans CANNOT THRIVE ON A VEGAN DIET – the movement will go nowhere. You can kick and scream and manipulate people with graphic images for the next million years. All that’s going to happen if you are “successful” is that the majority of the human population will be ex-vegans who are not going to fall for the same trick again.
If you are in doubt then a good book is Death by Food Pyramid by Denise Minger who also talks about how ill she became on a vegan diet. Dogma is so very dangerous – and yes, research proves that humans have always eaten meat and require animal protein in their diet for optimal health. Research also shows that a very high percentage of people on a vegan diet have to and do start eating animal protein again as they cannot sustain optimum health without it.
Good for you Erika. You have to do what is right for you and your body. I have never understood why vegans and vegetarians – some – get so rude with those who don’t practice the same lifestyle. You don’t see meat eaters staking out the Farmer’s Market or vegetarian restaurants or such to protest people not eating meat. If that is the way a person chooses to live their life, good for them but don’t get on my case for not agreeing. I am perfectly happy with my LCHF plan I am on now.
This is totally a Troll article lol. “I dropped things because I ate fruits and vegetables”. Without vitamin C, people used to get scurvy. We need to include these in our diet, they are not poison that makes your joints hurt and all this other random crap that made me blush, and laugh for 5 minutes.
Before I became a vegetarian, I felt more sluggish and didn’t even realize i did, until I started getting all this energy I didn’t know I could have just by changing my diet alone. My walks to the corner store to get a few groceries became sprints. I felt more awake and alert. My stomach became less bloated. Eventually I joined cross country, where I was eventually able to run 9 miles non stop.I really really doubt you were ever vegan. I’ve donated blood and plasma. I don’t have iron or protein deficiencies which i get naturally from plants. Which our body has always been designed to be able to process, we’re not carnivores were considered omnivores. You get varicose veins by genetics and the work and strain you do on your legs or arms, not your diet. Heavy weight can also increase it. And if you were only for 3 years, highly doubt you suddenly got an overload of crazy white hairs and varicose veins from eating fruits and vegetables. All the inconsistencies made me lose all credibility in you. You sound like a girl who never even has been vegetarian, spewing crap on the internet for attention. I could write more and more, but frankly i don’t have the time.
Actually, the symptoms I developed are quite consistent with classic vegan deficiencies in vitamins B12, K2, A, D, and other nutrients like DHA/EPA, iron, zinc, iodine, taurine, creatine, carnosine, carnitine, calcium, etc. And, I was supplementing a lot of those and it still was not working … I’m afraid vegans are going to have to face up to the fact that most humans cannot be healthy on a vegan diet … if the problems we all face are ever going to get solved.
What about the few million vegans that are happy and healthy, some vegan their whole lives? I don’t take vitamins or supplements, don’t even watch what I intake. I’ve not had any problems.
Great, it’s a great diet for some people. Though there are lots of vegans who claim to be thriving who are angry all the time and look emaciated. I still am open to the idea that some people can do it. The fact that it appears that only a small minority can do it though means that veganism cannot be foisted on the rest of the population. And therefore it fails as a social justice movement.
Erika, your last few posts spoke more and more about ‘angry’ vegans, a label that you had previously used when you were such a huge advocate for veganism-claiming that the persistence of an angry vegan convinced you to change your ways.
No one likes a fascist, in any movement, be it political, religious,in atheism,the feminist movement,in animal rights,diet, etc. Yet in your abrupt about face you became one yourself, along with becoming ‘angry’, far moreso than you’d exhibited in previous blogs and epistles. It seems that, for you everything is back or white, that there are no gradients in life-until today where publically you are playing the role of serenity and indulgence, letting your sidekick Esmee Lefleur be your dutiful pitbull.
When the leading researcher in nutrition and diet comes out endorsing veganism as THE ideal diet for the human animal-along with its necessity for the wellbeing of the environment, the planet et al-somehow those rather caustic and angry epithets by ex-vegans who are seemingly in denial over their inability to properly follow a vegan diet, appear to have little validity, just as your current blog does.
Instead of being honest, you chose to act out in fashion-the all or nothing approach. I have been becoming increasingly disappointed in your actions, Erika, not angry as you would likely conclude, and this blog only reinforces that disappointment.
I am sorry that you feel it necessary to belittle vegans because the diet didn’t work for you-or your pitbull-but since the most highly respected expert in nutrition comes out with a paper endorsing the vegan diet and lifestyle as being the most necessary component of human health and a healthy planet-and further endorsed by the Dietary Council against the pressures of the ‘food industry’….well, let’s just say that they carry much more credibility than a few angry ‘ex-vegans’.
Oh no, we are engaged in a very life-serving mission here. And sorry, I’ve read too many accounts from ex-vegans now to believe for a second that this is the ideal diet for any human, let alone all of them. That doesn’t mean I judge you for being vegan. Do whatever you like with your body. I certainly though am going to let the world know what I discovered about the claims of vegans about “nutrition” and “health” for humans.
“If it is important enough to you, you will find a way. If it is not, you will find an excuse.”
Nothing could ever make me support animal agriculture. It’s simply unnecessary and terrible for health. Not to mention forces a life of hell on the animals. Animal products turn on CANCER growth. I don’t know how anyone wih health in mind could support or promote them.
If it’s important enough, you’ll learn how to solve the problem at its root … by reprogramming the subconscious mind.
If it’s not important enough, you’ll keep pretending that a diet is going to solve anything and avoid doing the real work.
I am doing the real work. I have yet to see one single vegan willing to do it. Over and out.
I couldn’t read all the comments. The “bashing” is just so brutal. I just wanted to say I’m very happy for you and wish you continued improvement in your health. Welcome back to the land of the living!
Thank you for sharing your experience. I am surprised by the hate and toxicity to you sharing your truth. We are all doing the best we can. I am learning each day and the path that I took yesterday is not the path I am taking today. May compassion and love prevail.
Being vegan doesn’t mean just take meat off the plate. It means replacing it by another source of nutrients. Like nuts, beans, and many more. There is also a lot of false-meats, it helps. I was vegetarian for a year, and now I’m vegan since a year and 4 months and I never bean healthier. When I was eating meat, I was suffering from anemia. Since I stopped meat, I stopped anemia too! Strange, I know, but because I really love beans and nuts, I probably have enough iron with them. Before, it was hard for me to walk 5 streets. Now, I can walk trough all Montreal’s downtown, on ste-catherine street, from Guy street to St-Denis street. Look on a map, it’s amazing! I would never have been capable of doing so before. I’m sick less often, too. Before, I had 3 bronchitis a year. Now, only two simple cold that I go trough in 3-4 days with coldFX pills and cold-pressed juices.
You say that people told you that you were a ““bad vegan” who “wasn’t doing it right.” “. They just wanted to help you, to explain to you how to be a healthy vegan. Why did you choose to return to meat instead of listening about what they had to say? Were you afraid that maybe they were right? Was your health problems just an excuse to return to meat? If it’s that, just admit it instead of saying “vegan is bad, you’ll die”. Because if so many people are vegan since 1, 5, 10 and sometimes 20 years, it’s because it works. Otherwise, they would be dead… Think about it just 2 minutes.
No, they didn’t want to help me. They wanted to push their agenda. Great, it works for you. It doesn’t work for most humans. Guess what? Your body is different.
So y ou think. They tried to explain to you how to be vegan AND healthy. If you had listen, you would still be vegan and without any health problem. i think the truth is you were craving meat and it was more easy to stop being vegan than to learn how to eat correctly.
You mean like the numerous people here and on my Facebook page who consulted multiple doctors and even PCRM and couldn’t get rid of their nutritional deficiencies and health issues on a vegan diet?
your health issues have nothing to do with being vegan. Some people will detox when they first start a vegan diet which can last a while. I know I did. But now I’m great. I’ve had my blood checked and a complete checkup and my nutritional levels are the best they have ever been. My cholesterol levels and triglyceride levels have dropped so much that my doctor was thrilled with them. I know people who have been vegan fo 30+ years. There health is the best. Perhaps you didn’t give veganism enough time. Perhaps you were not eating the right vegan diet.
You people are literally insane. I have no comment.
How is the writer of this comment “literally” insane? Labelling someone insane because they present a different view to yours is incorrect and irresponsible. Not to mention discriminatory of people with serious mental illnesses. You could have engaged with this person’s comments instead of being so dismissive.
Well, unfortunately when people fail to nourish themselves, they put their brain at risk for serious cognitive dysfunction.
With 600 million vegetarians worldwide and counting, your comments are a little detached from reality.
There is no comparison between a vegetarian diet and a vegan diet.
Stay strong girl. You do you.
It’s unfortunate that there are so many closed minded people out there, but your post will be championed by way more people than it will be put down.
To all the people who feel the need to comment and contest the details of her article/experience: LIVE YOUR OWN DAMN LIFE. If veganism works for you, GREAT! Do it! Be happy! Lift others up regardless of their beliefs and life choices.
Also, health issues always have to do with your diet. Sorry but it’s true. Chances are whatever is ailing you is caused by/can be healed with what you eat.
Some people like to judge. I’m sorry you went through what you are going through. You did what you needed to do for you, and that is no one else’s business. Thank you for being brave enough to share. There are many vegans who are so cruel and judgemental, and to me that is not at the heart of what veganism is supposed to be; that of love and kindness to all, especially humans! That said I very seldom call myself vegan because of how cruel, rude, pompous, and mean so many of them are and can be. It’s a religeoun rather than a lifestyle. This is why I say I eat a plant based diet to avoid the sick association with that garbage.
I think the health issue at hand is with both meat and veganism alike (not saying you won’t do better on your meat diet, I hope you do get better whatever that may be for you). Our plant foods and the foods that animals eat that humanity eats their meat from, are very depleted in nutrient content. Studies show that North American soil is as much as 80% depleted in mineral content than what it used to be even 50-60 years ago. Not to mention, very few people eat organic and plant foods are missing (even to and extent in organic foods) plant sterols which are critical for our immune system to function properly (no wonder so many people get sick and I’m not inferring this was your problem by the way, just observation.) Plant foods on their own at one point in their native form, would have possibly sustained veganism, but without supplementing for both meat eater and plant eater we are in trouble. Time to go back to living off the land! Hope you get better soon, whatever road it takes for you to get there:)
Thank you. As I’m sure you realize, I am no more a fan of the S.A.D. diet than I am of the vegan diet. There are other options, and each person will probably need to customize to their unique genetics and physiology.
You were trying abolish death…? I think the real goal of veganism is not to abolish death, but to stop the animal holocaust – to stop torturing sentient animals. Now you want to partake in that evil machine again? I would feel spiritually sick.
I suspect that all those supplements were causing major oxidative stress and imbalances. You can’t be taking all those minerals safely! That was probably one of your real problems.
You seem to have some other issues, whether physical or mental, and found it easiest to blame it on veganism. What a shame.
Let’s see … vegans with their almond milk … are both contributing to the holocaust of honey bees. And the environmental devastation of an extremely water-intensive crop. So you kill 1000 bees and I kill one cow – how do you claim any moral superiority when all lives matter the same?
You all don’t understand how you come across to people who are in their right mind. What is a shame is how hypocritical and pointless the vegan movement is. If you actually cared about the animals, you’d learn transformation and put down the protest signs.
I don’t expect that to happen any time soon. After skiing, I enjoyed some fatty fish tuna and some chocolate lava cake with caramel ice cream. Wow were those foods satisfying. And boy was it liberating not to have to order anything “special” and make a big spectacle of myself in the restaurant.
I just wanted to address your comment about almonds… First of all, it takes a lot less water to produce a gallon of almond milk than it does to produce a gallon of cow’s milk. So switching over to almond milk would result in less water being used.
Second, the bees dying were from fungicides used on the almonds. It’s not like almonds are killing bees, it’s the toxic chemicals that are used in conventional crops. Organic almonds don’t kill bees.
Bees are killed constantly in industrial pollination. It was just particularly bad when fungicides were used. Again, you have no moral high ground. And I believe your numbers are wrong about the almonds and the cows milk. It takes a ridiculous amount of water to produce a pound of almonds. Regardless, kill on one hand or kill on the other. Vegans have no moral high ground. Period.
Ever raise the organic issue in the vegan community? I did. Oh, you should have heard them wail about how they shouldn’t have to buy organic food. It was one of my early moments of discovering how ridiculously hypocritical and moronic the community really was.
Here is an infographic that shows the water usage for various milks:
http://www.motherjones.com/environment/2014/03/california-water-suck
Erika,
I’m sorry, but you’ve misrepresented a lot of things. B12 deficiency is an issue for 40% of the US population. Vitamin D deficiency is considered an epidemic here as well. You know that vegans aren’t 40% of the population. So it’s something else. These deficiencies along with others are not world wide especially those who do not follow a western diet. I think it has to do more with that. Dr Klaper has done research on the potentially permanent damage meat does to the body’s ability to absorb b12. You can find this on YouTube. Also to consider, a study showed introducing meat into diet of b12 deficient vegans did nothing for most.
While it is true that non-vegans may also have these deficiencies, they are significantly more prevalent among vegans. As well, I am not suggesting that the S.A.D. (Standard American Diet) is a good option. Many people on the S.A.D. diet surely also have deficiencies. Fortunately though, these are not our only two options. For example, fatty fish is not only high in DHA/EPA which are lacking in the typical American diet and even more lacking in the typical vegan diet … fatty fish is also a great source of vitamin D and vitamin B12.
Hello Erika, my goodness you’ve had quite the time keeping up with all of this, and you weren’t beaten down, good for you! There’s nothing like a person who follows their own path.. I congratulate you! I myself have been vegan for just a few months and it was only because of watching Earthlings.. and I’ve been signing every animal protection petition going.. I speak out for the animals because it it their torture that I find intolerable.. But! I too have to listen to my body, and thanks to YOU my dear friend, now I understand why I feel like absolute shit! And there is nobody that can tell me I don’t know how the body works, if one wants to know how the body works and what is wrong with it, one must be in touch with it.. No “statistics” will tell you about your own unique body! Yes, this is merely my opinion.. as others’ have given.. but I just want to say Keep going and stay strong! Tell people of your experiences because if not for you I wouldn’t have reconsidered my vow not to eat these poor creatures, I will have to get my own animals I suppose, there was a movie.. I forget which one it was, I’ll have to think about it, it was a weird one I know that.. there was an old lady living with goats, and she loved her goats, and she sat down and there was a woman visiting her.. anyway, she sat down and she said something along these lines.. These little goats? God blessed me with them, they talk to me.. I talk to them, we’re best friends, and not only that, they give me milk, butter, cheese.. everyday they gift me, and she held that goat close to her and she looked into the goats eyes, and said and I appreciate everything you gift me with.. and then she cut her throat, and as she looked up at the lady visiting her, with tears streaming down her face.. she said, and every once in a while, they give their life for me, but only when I truly need.. These slaughter houses are the thing that needs to be addressed! I mean I think about it ok, how much of a difference am I, one person making? I wasn’t eating that much meat to begin with? I was only ever eating what I felt necessary.. I was never disrespectful and always thankful for what I received simply because I was in touch with my spirit and I had compassion? I thought I was weird having these feelings growing up? Lol! Yes, if we really want to make a change as to how these poor animals are treated then there has to be something else done to stop this madness, because while if half or even a third of the planet became a plant based diet or vegetarian or whatever the hell label people want to put on this? It’s about the animals, and even though my body is crying out for meat, thank you again for helping me solve this mystery because I’m menopausal too so it’s really effecting my teeth, I was getting really worried! I actually will get something today, and I will pray over it, and I will give thanks to the spirit of the animal it came from.. I’ll also keep doing whatever I can to speak out for them.. And if anyone thinks for a minute that plants do not feel? Think again.. Everything living feels.. People used to think Fish didn’t feel? Everything has a vibration, and it’s how we treat every being on this planet, plants trees, water.. Lord especially the water.. And what of animals who eat their “kill” alive? Do we kill them because they’re being mean? That is their nature.. Some are very cruel, but lol I dunno how to deal with their “issues” lol I’m just trying to put a little bit of lightness on this stuff because all of this arguing is causing nothing but negative energy, and my goodness, you must feel drained Erika, I’m sending you all kinds of love and light energy, and many blessings to you <3 So, yes, if we want to stop this horrendous killing and abuse? Lets speak up? I am? I think it should be the way it was in that movie.. only take what you need and be in deep respect and always love and care for those who will one day have to give their life for you.. IF your body needs it, as some have mentioned here, they do not, and that's great! If you can do it and your body agrees!? Great, that's wonderful, but people must be aware of the real issue and start doing something about it.. What I suggest, knowing how the law of attraction works? What you think about expands.. so if you're constantly or even thinking at all about how these animals are suffering? You're literally creating more of .. these animals suffering.. for those who meditate, or even just visualize more and more people becoming aware of the treatment of these poor sentient beings because it's an outrage to me it really is.. So that's my take on the whole thing, I hope everyone just breathe.. allow people to have their opinion without getting upset and feeling defensive, you do what you feel is right for you.. and thank you again for your information,
God bless
Yes, vegans are making the world a worse place because their focus is chronically on pain and suffering. Yes.
That’s a very serious claim you’re making and one that I doubt you have proof of. It’s your choice to not be vegan, but saying “vegans are making that world a worse place” is ridiculous and contradicts your previous statement that “vegans have the best intentions”.
Nothing contradictory about it. There are lots of people who have good intentions but their head up their ass ;-P
I don’t think it’s very helpful to dismiss veganism in that way, whatever your personal feelings may be. I too have ready many articles written by people who have given up plant-based diets, and I feel for those who struggle with the ethics of their decisions. Many different types of people have what you say “their head up their ass”, but this is not limited to vegans.
Given that I am a health coach and endorsed this lifestyle … now that I have learned about its dangers first-hand … I most certainly will be giving my audience the most accurate information that I can. Frankly, the vegan community should be grateful if I don’t publish all these comments that are coming in, because they just reinforce what I’ve already said. A vegan diet does not provide adequate nutrition for proper cognitive functioning and emotional balance.
Erika below you said, “A vegan diet does not provide adequate nutrition for proper cognitive functioning and emotional balance.”
Not sure what your background on nutrition is, but you seem to have missed a lot of information. See this abstract that summarizes all of the research on vegetarian and vegan diets:
J Am Diet Assoc. 2009 Jul;109(7):1266-82.
“It is the position of the American Dietetic Association that appropriately planned vegetarian diets, including total vegetarian or vegan diets, are healthful, nutritionally adequate, and may provide health benefits in the prevention and treatment of certain diseases. Well-planned vegetarian diets are appropriate for individuals during all stages of the life cycle, including pregnancy, lactation, infancy, childhood, and adolescence, and for athletes.”
Also consider the works of T Colin Campbell, and all the nutrition giants of his caliber, that all point to a vegetarian/vegan diet as the most optimal for human health.
I don’t think you can blame your lack of “cognitive functioning” on the vegan diet. I think you had other stuff going on, perhaps stress, a mental disorder, excessive supplements, etc that were causing your issues.
Sorry hun, apparently they forgot to consult with us ex-vegans about what the diet was doing to our bodies. And there is no article you can cite that will be more persuasive than what my body told me loud and clear.
By the way, I haven’t heard one of these “devoted animal rights activists” yet willing to take on responsibility for the resulting medical and/or dental bills from continuing to follow this diet. Apparently it’s a lot easier to talk than to act.
You might enjoy this informative talk
highsteaks.com/homo-carnivorus-what-we-are-designed-to-eat-barry-groves/
Michael, I saw what I think was your brilliant comment on another blog about veganism. Was that you? It was so brilliant.
Refresh my memory, what was the statement about? The gist?
Hi Michael,
This is it – you wrote this yes?
“I am a former vegan whose health and well being were undermined by my beliefs. There are a great many incorrect assumptions made in the vegan community about the viability and validity of the plant-based lifestyle. More often than not these assumptions come from an estrangement from nature and natural processes rather than a closeness.
“ALL of the reasons for justifying a vegan diet, (ethical,nutritional, physiological) can be dismantled individually, but they all fail before this simple observation; There are no naturally occurring reproducing human vegan populations. In fact, one has never been observed. Can you find an Anthropologist who will dispute the fact that our Human condition is a result of nutrient dense Animal foods? Eating animal flesh has made us human.
“If one sits quietly and looks at the natural world unfolding, one sees that every life form is busily devouring another life form in order to maintain its own existence. Herbivores are meant to be eaten by carnivores. This is perfectly natural. Trying to avoid taking lives is unnatural. Countless animals and animal habitats are destroyed in growing any type of food. One is adding moral and emotional qualities to the natural world that simply do not belong there.
“Veganism flourishes in an emotional/intellectual abstraction from nature. My own observation is that bodily negation and bodily deprivation are primary motivating factors in committed veganism. Many committed vegans are literally at war with their own vitality. “Animal rights”, “ethics”and “non-violence” are really secondary issues.
“A vegan diet seems good on paper, and many people listening to the arguments try it. Most of these people listen to the 911 calls their bodies are sending them and abandon the experiment. There are a lot more ex-vegans than there are practicing ones.
“A human vegan diet is inherently nutrient deficient. Very few can sustain it for a long time. Eventually the stored nutrients run out. On a most basic level one must supplement with B-12 or eventually suffer permanent damage to ones nervous system.
“I urge you to reconsider your lifestyle choices in favor of a more balanced approach. Much of the very apparent anger and rage exhibited in posts from vegans here reflect the nutrient deficiencies and emotional imbalances inherent in a vegan diet. You might want to read other accounts of former vegans, such as Lierre keith (Author of The Vegetarian Myth), Alex Jamesion, Vegan blogger Tasha, Chris Masterjohn and Denise minger. You are not alone.”
I just thought this was absolutely brilliant. I wanted to get in touch with you and didn’t know how, so I’m super glad you found this article and commented :)
Yes that is me. Its funny that when my own daughter in her first year of grad school announced she was going to be vegan, what do you think I did or said to her? Nothing! I told my wife something that my grandmother used to say in Yiddish; “Warter nur” “Only wait”. I said to my very concerned wife that she is a balanced person who will eventually listen to her body. When she visited I cooked vegan meals for her, and said nothing. After about a year she suddenly abandoned it. She said she was “Sick and tired of feeling sick and tired”
Sounds like you handled it very gracefully ;)
Bravo! More Honesty! I am a former macrobiotic vegan. In my youth I organised and ran a kitchen in a Macrobiotic restaurant. I have come to understand that it is almost impossible to deal with emotional energy by using intellectual arguments. Most people adopt a vegan diet because it looks so good on paper. Its easy! Just stop eating animal products and you will help save the world. The vast majority of people eventuall can listen to the 911 calls that their bodies are sending them and abandon it. They slink quietly away with their tails between their legs and want nothing more to do with it. Bravo for speaking out about it. The greatist argument against the theory of Veganism is simply the practice of Veganism.I have also come to understand that long term committed veganism is not really about “ethics” and “compassion” at all. These are just neurotic rationalizations. It is all about the need for deprivation and bodily negation. These people ignore or over ride the 911 calls their bodies are sending them. I have seen it over and over again. They actually revel in the deprivation and the slow self righteous starvation. It is the fast track to sainthood. This is one of the reasons that it is so difficult to reason with committed long term vegans. It is a disease rooted deeply in their bodies. As far as the taking of life for sustenance, I now see that this is perfectly natural. The cycle of nature is inherently violent. It cannot function without the taking of life in some form. It is like railing against the ocean because one does not like the idea that water is wet. All of the arguments for veganism can be easily dismantled one by one, but they all fail before this simple observation. There are no naturally occuring reproducing vegan cultures, in fact one has never been observed. Veganism is a form of fundamentalism, and like most forms of fundamentalism one has to use an extrodinary amount of intellectual energy in denial. One has to deny the evidence from, Human history, Anthropology, Biology, Nutritional science, you name it. “Pay no attention to all of those people behind the curtian!” Ultimately one even has to deny ones body. Veganism is itself a form of animal abuse, it is the abuse of the animal most intimate to oneself, your body.
Yep, humans became humans and grew big brains only because we we became the the most efficient and successful hunters on the planet.
Esmee; The argument is made that humans are not carnivores b/c we do not have “fangs and claws” like other predators. They completely overlook the fact that humans have evolved the deadliest, most efficient “fangs and claws” on the planet. They are called tools.
Exactly Michael
You were eating the right foods, but not enough. I am going thru that right now. I’ll think I am full and I’ll just stop eating. For dinner you should always have a 1 1/2 lb salad loaded with everything. Sometimes I dont even crave water, but that is another condition I had even when eating meat. If you ever go back, be sure to always start ur day with a big bowl of buckwheat groats with fruit. You are a strong person.
I’m sure you mean well but I have no interest in eating more. From my perspective, a natural and healthy diet should not be so complicated nor would that have resolved nutritional deficiencies that need to be addressed with animal products.
http://rawfoodsos.com/for-vegans/
Erika, I’m sorry you experienced so many health concerns during a period of time when you were vegetarian and then transitioned to a fully plant-based or vegan diet. That sounds really miserable and I’m sorry you were suffering. However, that experience of suffering and subsequent attempts to inform your chosen diet through research does not establish you as a credible source able to offer unbiased evidence for/against a certain diet. I noticed that you didn’t reply to Richard Deboo’s comment, which is a shame because it was extremely thoughtful. He raised excellent questions about the scientific evidence to support your claims, which you have neglected to address. Unfortunately, you’re not an expert on the subject of nutrition for “most humans” just because you did “extensive research” to rally against a diet and belief system you already were highly motivated to change for personal reasons. Also, I implore you to think more critically about the sources you rely upon and share as evidence- I mean, you listed an article from “thepaleodiet.com” as a research citation in a comment! Talk about biased; the promotor of that website and diet receives direct financial benefits from convincing people that eating animal products is healthful and that avoiding them is dangerous- not the best source for credible science on the topic.
It’s also highly misleading and inappropriate to offer anecdotal claims as evidence against a plant-based diet. One major issue with anecdotal stories like yours and like the others you have mentioned, is that these tales, though compelling in their style and message, fail to provide any evidence supporting a theory of causality between plant-based diets and health problems; you can’t prove causality without random assignment to conditions, and even then it’s very tricky with human subjects research. There are also no control subjects in these stories to which we can meaningfully (scientifically, using rigorous statistical analyses) compare the stories of your experience and other “ex-vegans” to determine whether some of these deleterious symptoms might actually happen to an expected percentage of people, across different types of diets. We also have no standardized or reliable data from these accounts – varying measurements of health, taken at different points and by different providers (or by the subjects themselves), sometimes referring to the self-administered treatment of self-diagnosed conditions. That’s simply crappy science and not something to build a case on.
I’m glad you are feeling better these days. Be thankful, but please don’t lambast a diet that didn’t work for you, just because you’re angry that you suffered, feel that you were misinformed, and dealt with unkind people along the way. Plant-based diets can certainly be healthy and sustainable, but unfortunately you happened to be an individual who experienced health issues while on a plant-based diet. As we know, there are also plenty of individuals who experience dramatic health issues while not eating plant-based. The age-old saying holds true: correlation does not equal causation. Your story is not evidence one way or the other. If anecdotal accounts were sufficient, it would be enough for proponents of veganism to counter every story of someone who got “10 cavities out of the blue” while eating a vegan diet, with a story of a vegan triathlete or vegan octogenarian enjoying a healthy life. But that’s not evidence either, that’s why we need the scientific method to help us figure these things out!
Good luck with your health, best wishes for your continued improvement.
Happily, Chris responded for me. I most certainly will make people aware of the dangers of a vegan diet after I publicly supported it based on misinformation I had been fed by vegans.
It doesn’t really seem right, to bash veganism, since you obviously failed to even try to get expert opinion on your attempt at veganism. I appreciate that you did try veganism for so long, that’s definitely awesome and the world is grateful, however writing an article like this only serves to further confuse the masses on what veganism is, and the ultimate benefits of it. As vegans who are primarily concerned for the wellfare of all living beings, in particular humanity, who will not be able to sustainably survive on an animal centric diet, people for the most part are already thoroughly convinced by media, that veganism is strange and extreme. Who exactly is your audience, are you trying to reinforce to people, how terrible veganism is? When you yourself, didn’t even back up your own arguments with science and facts, and a diet regime that you actually used. Vegan doesn’t automatically equate to healthy, there are a million ways a ‘vegan’ diet can be unhealthy. To blame veganism for your ill health is irresponsible not only for yourself but to humanity who largely suffers health qualms due to overconsumption of animal fats and proteins. If you wanted to gain the respect of both vegan and non vegan communities it would have helped you to, to approach this subject with a little more diligence and thought. Even if ‘red’ meat was supposedly your only hope to a ‘healthful’ life, and you do really care about the animal wellbeing… this may be your best option for future. sciencealert.com/lab-grown-burger-patty-cost-drops-from-325-000-to-12
I won’t rule it out. I admit I am skeptical of anything brought to us by the same folks who brought us GMO grains and pharmaceuticals :)
From my perspective, we need to put all of this in the transformation hopper and let go of preconceived ideas about what is the best way to solve it …
Erika, I understand this must be a tricky time for you. But you have written in this article that you already knew a lot about nutrition and that you were motivated by ethical concerns while vegan. Your comment here implies you were unable to critically engage with information you came across. I respect anyone’s decision to reject plant-based eating, but your article is full of inconsistencies, and when some people here have pointed things out to you, you shut them down and refuse to discuss their ideas and experiences.
If you were able to critically engage, you would realize that suicide is the only acceptable choice for vegans so they can “do the least harm.” Please take your insufferable condescension elsewhere. Thanks.
I apologise if my comments have come across that way. It wasn’t my intention. I’m just trying to make sense of what I find a very confusing post. Seeing as this post is public and it is the Internet, how else am I supposed to do that? I had hoped that by starting a discussion with you that you may be able to clarify a few points but I see that you’re only interested in readers’ opinions that agree with your own. Your suggestion that suicide is an acceptable choice for a person is morally repulsive. What respectable professional would ever make such a dangerous statement? Your comments are a disgrace to health coaching. I feel sorry for you that you feel the need to attack people who ask questions you’re uncomfortable answering. You clearly were never vegan. Thank you for confirming the doubts I had about your integrity and motives to help others. Good luck finding peace in your life.
What? Morally repulsive? Are you kidding me? Everything you all have been posting here is that no harm should be done to animals. Well, you’re harming them by your very existence. Vegan food kills tons of animals. So clearly if you actually believed what you’re telling me, you would take your own life.
I realize that you don’t actually believe what you’re telling me. That you won’t commit suicide. And that in fact you have drawn absolutely arbitrary lines of “right” and “wrong” that are absolutely indefensible. Suicide would be the only option for any vegan who actually practiced what they preach.
Are you recommending I end my own life?
I’m recommending that you stop being a hypocrite.
Erika, I have not mentioned harming animals in any of my comments. I have questioned some of your statements and sought clarification. I have also taken issue with your suggestion that suicide is a solution. None of this makes me a hypocrite. I don’t have any issues with you removing yourself from the vegan community, nor returning to an omnivorous diet. Perhaps if you were to read my comments again, when you are feeling more calm and less defensive, you would understand this. I won’t be commenting again as I have no interest in trying to discuss this with you while you’re so irrational. I really pity you and can only wish you luck as you try to sort through your issues.
I think if you go back and read your comments, you’ll find plenty of judgments and accusations. My body is not healthy as a vegan, period. I have critically engaged with many here who appear not to be able to process basic logical arguments. Probably because their brains are deprived of vitamin B12 and DHA/EPA. You’re welcome to come back if you like. Just try to keep it respectful. I have had to put up with a lot of bullshit over the past few weeks. Take care.
Nice article. It’s simple, listen to thy body. 6 months I went vegan, but didn’t like the feeling of it personally. Nothing against vegans at all. Just personal preference . I eat In and Out cheeseburgers now when I want and I’m happy. Do what your body prefers . Everybody has different bodies.
So…, why do you like killing animals…?
Why do you like harming humans?
cat’s can outlive their counterparts on a vegan diet … proven repeatedly
has not been proved at all
I just want u to know i totally support u. I was never a vegan, but i was a vegatarian for a long time. As the years went by, i got sicker. I eventually changed my diet when i was dealing with infertility. After trying to conceive for almost 5 years my research led me to become paleo. I changed and was pregnant within 6 months. A great book on diet and the science is Good Calories Bad Calories by Gary Taubes He also has a more user friendly verson. AnOther is The Vegetarian Myth by Leirre Keith This one talks about the environmental, political and health aspects. Kudos to you!
I think you better tap on your beliefs. Reality is going to give you what your beliefs are. I have been vegan for years and have glowing health (I believe 100% in my diet). Alicia Silverstone believes in a kind diet and is exceedingly vibrant. Annette Larkins and Mimi Kirk are in their mid 70s and function as decades younger people. I can go on and on..Jared Leto, Moby, Morrissey spring to mind. I just hope that anyone reading this who is AWAKENING to the understanding that we don’t have to harm and hurt sentient beings to thrive. Watch Earthlings (free online) and follow your own truth..because this truth is tainted. and p.s. The reason vegans are so angry is obvious…why are the dead animal eaters so angry towards vegans is the real question.
You’re harming sentient beings. All vegans are. You haven’t solved the problem.
Erika, Can you please explain how being vegan harms sentient beings MORE than eating animals. All industrial food systems harm sentient beings, as field animals are killed during harvesting of crops. Some things we have the power to change, as individuals, and some things we cannot. The U.N. has called for an end to industrialized farming, and I believe that this will happen at some point in the (maybe near) future.
Yea I can tell you one clear way beyond all the others. You people are so insufferably arrogant that you’re alienating most of the people you might actually win to your cause. You also remain focused constantly on suffering and death, which just creates more of it.
But we are harming fewer sentient beings and causing less harm to the planet. That matters.
Not necessarily – https://erikaawakening.com/vegan-philosophy
Erika, once more, and to give a facile one liner as you yourself are wont to do, solving an intractable problem is not the goal, ameliorating the situation is. Stop implying we’re trying to eradicate all suffering and should take our own lives to follow this through to its logical conclusion – it’s fallacious and you know it.
Au contraire. If you accept any so-called “solution” that involves compromise, you have solved nothing. Which is why it is absolutely futile to continue trying to solve this with 3D logic. But vegans wouldn’t understand that, because they would rather stay angry and carry protest signs than explore new possibilities that might actually work.
What a crock of crap. A partial solution is none at all, so therefore we should resign ourselves to accepting the problem and just ignore it? You’d never, presumably, apply this same ‘logic’ to the human domain – we’ll never be able to save all starving children, there’ll always be wars and famines and what not, so it’s futile to intervene, let nature – and mankind – do their worst. Btw buzzwords like 3D logic mean nothing to me, as doesn’t your lazy stereotyping.
I have the means for a better answer. But as I’ve said many times now, this project is too big for me. And in the meantime, I would rather keep my brain and emotional system functioning properly so that when people actually get motivated enough to solve these problems … I’ll still be able to help :D
Fair enough.
Most of us meat eaters aren’t angry with vegans and vegetarians. Do what you want. But it is the same as with religion. Don’t push it on me.
Sure, Karen, if you agree not to push your meat-eating ideas on non-consenting animals.
I second that, Karen.
Actually, eating plant foods makes me incredibly irritable, impatient, and even angry. They seriously mess with my brain. I have never felt better than since I eliminated all plant foods from my diet. I mind is now calm and balanced. I am patient and happy. Quite a revelation, actually.
All plant foods? Wow, good luck with that.
How do you define veganism and vegan?
How about plant based diet?
Where do they overlap?
You were never vegan. You were on a plant based diet and it is harmful to the most important social movement of recent times for you to publish this confusion between the two. Please change your post so that it says ‘plant based diet’ instead of ‘vegan’.
I, along with the rest of the ex-vegans, will call ourselves exactly what we are, in order to demonstrate to the world the truth. A vegan diet is not sustainable for most humans. And the more people you convert to veganism with misleading nutritional “information” and graphic images, the more of us ex-vegans there will be who are no longer susceptible to the manipulation.
I am about to cry after reading this because I feel that veganism has stolen my son from me. In his entire life he has never eaten flesh. When he moved to San Francisco seven years ago, he gave up dairy. He eats twice a day, a salad for breakfast and a veggie burrito for dinner. He’s 27 and looks like a 7th grader. He has become increasingly distant over these last seven years. Now he has completely unplugged and I cannot reach him. You probably know him. Any advice for this heart-broken mother?
Hi Brenda, I’m really sorry to hear that. I honestly think that veganism affects the brain and emotional system in ways that lead to this kind of separation. What I always turn to is my EFT tapping method. You might try out some of our free videos to learn how: https://erikaawakening.com/start-here … it’s especially suitable for “hopeless” situations.
Seriously?
I think your son has issues that have nothing to do with being vegan. Please encourage him to seek medical help
Sadly it sounds as though your son may have anorexia and be using veganism as an excuse.
I’ve tried all kinds of ways of eating and felt very healthy on a plant based diet. But I also used it as an excuse years ago to eat pretty much nothing.
Your son sounds as though he is eating way way too little rather than a healthy, calorie sufficient diet.
I could be wrong but couldn’t help but put the idea out there after reading your message and seeing parallels xx
I see rampant patterns of eating disorders in the vegan communities. I sometimes think that’s the real drive behind it.
Regarding the taurine, you do realise that this can be synthesised without using animal products, don’t you, Erika? But I suppose you would rather believe the quacks like Dr Mercola and the Weston A Price Foundation.
And, no, I don’t have an eating disorder.
Right … we should all be taking 25 supplements like fake synthesized taurine because a vegan diet is so “natural” and “healthy.” And I’m sure those supplements will be readily available to everyone on the planet regardless of geography and financial circumstance.
Adam Lanza, the shooter at Sandy Hook, was a vegan. I wonder if anyone has even asked about the diet of those involved in our now daily mass murder sprees. (The Colorado Theater killer had the same look in his eyes as Lanza.) One thing that is totally missing in a plant-based diet is cholesterol. The brain has more cholesterol than any organ in the body.)
Wow really? Where did you hear that?
Hate to break this to you, Judy, but people’s bodies make cholesterol out of their food. This happens to meat-eaters and happens to vegans.
Actually many people’s bodies do not make these nutrients, and I have read vegan accounts who discovered through blood tests that they were low on cholesterol.
My cholesterol was under 100 on a vegan diet. My HDL was below 20. That was extremely dangerous and unhealthy. I ended up with Chronic Fatigue Syndrome. I have been severely ill for 15 years.
Judy,
Where do you get this idea that there is no cholesterol in plant foods? Many have very high levels of cholesterol. Back in the 1980s my aunt and cousins (all vegetarian — though not vegan — and all nurses at the Loma Linda University Medical center, by the way) had serious problems with high cholesterol levels and I can assure you they were not getting all this cholesterol from eggs, milk, cheese and other animal products.
Back in those days nutritional and medical science did not know about HDL (good) and LDL (bad) cholesterol. They only measured the total cholesterol levels and used drugs to bring them down also advising patients to avoid eating avocados, nuts and any other vegetable source of cholesterol. Since these vegetable sources are usually HDL and HDL is the the most effective means of reducing LDL the best “science” of the day was actually causing more harm than good with this advice. The exact opposite advice is normally given today.
Come on people. Most of you are ignoring more than half the facts and seeing only the “evidence” that supports what you want to believe. This is happening on both sides of the argument with everyone pointing fingers at how obvious this is in the people on the other side of the argument and no one really being willing to admit it in themselves.
Erika, I am including you in this although I see it in you to a much lesser degree than in those doing their best to tear you limb from limb. It seems to me that we can all use a greater dose of honesty and reality. I do not exempt myself from this since I am well aware I suffer from this problem too and must constantly guard against it. It becomes extremely difficult in a discussion this volatile, and I’m not the target of this volatility. I commend you for the patience and restraint you have shown in the face of these attacks. Try to do better.
According to my research, so-called “plant cholesterol” cannot be used by the human body and so does not count: diagnosisdiet.com/food/cholesterol/
Erika,
I will look at this but quite frankly it is a single source in a subject matter where nearly all research is bought and paid for some food or suppliment interest group, or groups like the Seventh-day Adventists who have an open religious agenda to push or groups like vegans or anti-vegans who claim their agenda is not really a religion. Although I do take my health seriously I don’t take any of these studies very seriously.
Furthermore, I am not a biochemist and don’t have a great interest in studying biochemistry. My degree is in Music Education. I have considerable additional study, both formal and informal in Mathematics and Theology, but don’t have and will probably never get a degree in either one even though 20 years ago I did have dreams of finishing them. Now I am working as a builder. My broad based education does give me enough knowledge that I do not go glassy eyed and get completely lost when reading a real scientific study report. I even understand a considerable amount of what they have to say. I can also usually recognize when they are skewing the results to fit the bias of the researchers or of those paying for the research. However since raw data is never published and since raw data is also often destroyed in skewing process even before data analysis can begin my bullshit meter will not always work reliably in these studies.
Since there is so much of this skewing everywhere these days I rarely bother even going looking for the information anymore except where it is absolutely necessary. Even where I have read the actual study I really consider that to be secondary in my thinking on this subject.
Now, I admit this subject should be much more important to me and to most other people than it is, it is also a subject where I seldom give it any attention, and quite intentionally so. Why? because it is pseudo-science and actual religion. And as religion it is really irrelevant. The religious aspect is almost totally made up and has almost nothing to do with real spirituality (then again most religion has almost nothing to do with real spirituality and hates all talk of the quantum.) Most of the arguments on either side of the matter have little or no regard for the truth.
As I said, I was raised SDA and raised lacto-ovo vegetarian. I have not always been vegetarian but I always return to it since I never developed a taste for meat, and there are other psychological factors from my upbringing both tangible (I do not like the texture as I chew) and intangible (much but not all of it just feels repulsive to me in much the same way you describe your current revulsion to vegetables.) I simply do not care to face my neuroses so directly when I eat so long as I remain reasonably healthy.
Every time I have a blood test (which is not as regularly as some of these other people) my cholesterol is so normal the doctors will not mention it and they don’t care to spend the time talking about it if I bring it up. Although I have never subscribed to a vegan diet I do sometimes in the normal course of choosing foods I like and eating what my body tells me it wants, go long periods of time without eating eggs, milk or cheese, yet my cholesterol is never high or low when tested. I know a large number of Adventists on this lacto-ovo vegetarian diet who do not eat excessive amounts of eggs or dairy who end up having to avoid them all together because their cholesterol is high. My aunt and cousins are not the only ones.
I don’t know if it is that our bodies are simply manufacturing cholesterol from other nutrients or if they ARE using plant cholesterol. That cholesterol is coming from somewhere and I don’t much care where it is coming from so long as it stays in healthy bounds. Should it reach a point where high or low it is unhealthy for me I’ll probably start caring and do more diligent research. In the mean time, it really surprises me that I’ve stayed in this discussion this long.
I do the research to see how it squares up with my experience. When I did the research on my symptoms, I learned that most of my symptoms were perfectly in alignment with the nutritional deficiencies of a vegan diet. So the articles describing the deficiencies of a vegan diet now have great credibility with me.
Most people aren’t very in touch with their bodies. When we are in touch with our bodies, we get constant feedback about what is actually “true.” I find that has been a more reliable way of going about things than going to doctors who often steered me wrong.
Erika,
Thank you for this link. I’ve read over half the article and had no idea the state of the science has changed this much in the last few years. This is a real eye opener. Even more interesting to me than the inability of our bodies to absorb plant cholesterol is how little of the animal cholesterol can be absorbed, and that most of the time very little of that which can be absorbed actually is. Our understanding of our bodies is finally beginning to grow.
Hi Myron,
Thank you for thinking so deeply about all these issues. Yea, and some of these new articles resonate more with my actual embodied experience than the “science” of the past. For example, high carb diets have never worked for me, and I have seen more and more articles confirming that. We ought to know by looking at the French paradox and the Israeli paradox that saturated animal fat probably is not the problem. Research points more and more to refined carbs and vegetables oils being a much bigger problem for most people. I was experiencing all sorts of problems earlier on the vegan diet that were probably related to carbs and vegetable oils. While I was able to address some of those issues by eliminating sugar, grains, and adding more fiber … that only led to more and different problems.
You might find these articles interesting as well:
Vitamin K2, which generally is missing on a vegan diet, as natto is not available to most of us: http://www.thehealthyhomeeconomist.com/the-vitamin-deficiency-that-is-written-all-over-your-face/
Chris Kresser on various deficiencies of the vegan diet: http://chriskresser.com/why-you-should-think-twice-about-vegetarian-and-vegan-diets/
I hear lots of talk about vegans and non-vegans in this article.
I hear lots of talk about health and nutrients.
I hear lots of talk about eating ‘things’ like ‘bacon’ and ‘cheeseburgers’ and other types of ‘meat’.
I hear not even one single WORD about how this affects the lives of individual animals.
This is not about vegans vs. non-vegans. This is about your dietary/nutritional needs vs. the lives of animals whose lives have value to them just as yours has value to you.
If I felt that you were seeing it that way, I might have more compassion for your moral quandry. The problem is that I don’t know if it really IS a moral quandry for you, because it seems like you have made this out to be more about the obnoxiousness of (some) vegans rather than about your commitment to not harm animals.
In other words, in the scenario you have presented here, you are the victim–the ONLY victim–whose rights are being violated by bullying, intimidating vegans…not the animals, whose lives and bodies are controlled every minute of every day, from before they are born until the day they are slaughtered, by humans.
When you talked about eating a cheeseburger, you never mentioned the cow whose flesh you ate. You never mentioned the mother cow, who was “forcibly inseminated” while being restrained in a device the industry literally calls a “rape rack”, only to have her baby taken away from her just after birth so you could have that piece of cheese made from her milk that was produced for her calf. You never mentioned that when people make jokes about craving bacon, they are talking about craving the flesh of somebody who is as aware and sensitive and intelligent as a human child.
I agree with you that vegans can be irate, dogmatic, rigid, and even, ironically, lacking in compassion. I agree that they should have shown you more patience and understanding, and worked with you to find a workable solution to your health problems without having to compromise your ethics.
But at the end of the day, this isn’t about vegans. This is about non-human animals. And from reading this article, I really think that you, like so many other non-vegans/ex-vegans, have rather conveniently ‘forgotten’ all about them.
Vegans are killing animals. It’s not even clear that vegans are killing fewer animals. Veganism does not solve the problems for the animals. Only radical changes in our belief systems could do that. And given the devastating consequences to human health for most humans on a vegan diet, forcing it on people cannot be justified.
If you actually care about the animals, then it’s time to learn skills that allow you to solve problems at the quantum level. If you are not willing to do that, you have no moral high ground here.
‘Vegans are killing animals. It’s not even clear that vegans are killing fewer animals.’
I’m not going to get into the issue of your no longer being vegan. That’s a complicated one and it’s up for you to figure out. There is no legitimate argument whatsoever, though, in regards to your statement here Obviously vegans ARE killing animals; a vegan lifestyle isn’t about purity or perfection but reducing the amount of suffering we’re responsible for. The idea is that we’re killing fewer animals. It’s up to you to decide how much you’re comfortable with; we all have to make ethical compromises because it’s impossible to be perfect in a world that’s based on the exploitation of others, both animal and human. But how in the world would vegans be killing more animals?
I’m sort of guessing that you’re going with the idea that animals–rodents, birds, etcetera–die during the harvesting of grains, which is correct. The majority of grain produced goes to feed farmed animals, though, so vegans are still responsible for fewer of those deaths than meat-eaters are.
Why would I get into this discussion at all, when I know it won’t solve anything. Veganism cannot save the world. Only changing subconscious beliefs can do that.
“If you actually care about the animals, then it’s time to learn skills that allow you to solve problems at the quantum level.”
What universe are you living in?
“Veganism does not solve the problems for the animals. Only radical changes in our belief systems could do that.”
Those radical changes in belief systems is called VEGANISM.
No seriously, what is your “quantum” solution, if not veganism? How does a vegan lifestyle harm more or less the same number of animals than a lifestyle centred around animal products? I don’t know whether to laugh or take you seriously.
Taurine is not an essential nutrient; in other words, the human body makes its own taurine. Cats, on the other hand, are not able to make taurine and it must be supplied by the diet in order to keep their retinas healthy. Taurine is made by the body from cysteine, which is a protein amino acid. If you eat the recommended amounts of protein (yes even plant protein), you should be getting enough cysteine to provide enough taurine. Creatine is not an essential nutrient either as it is produced by the human body. All those nutrients you made a list of can be obtained from plant sources – and the body makes vitamin D when you are exposed to sunlight (this is like 3rd grade basic science knowledge). If you’re going to talk about nutrition, much less write about it and post it on the internet, at least do the research so you know what you’re talking about rather than making wild assumptions.
As for those supplements: if you had to take those supplements, guess what – you were doing it wrong. And taking too many supplements comes with a wide spectrum of side effects – like bad skin, digestion problems, hair loss, kidney issues…etc. I’ve been vegan for almost 2 years now and vegetarian for 5 years prior to that, and since becoming vegan I’ve been resistant to colds and the flu and I’ve not needed to take any supplements.
The human body can sometimes make taurine. Not in all humans, and not all the time, and not at the levels needed all the time. Like many false conceptions spread by vegans. Surely you are aware that many if not most humans do not get enough vitamin D from the sun, and that many humans have relied for generations on oily fish to get their vitamin D in winter time especially. You are not going to move me with these arguments. I did the research. I learned just how much misinformation has been spread by vegans about nutrition.
If you want to learn how to solve the problem, you can read more about it here: http://tapsmarter.com/about-hbr
You’re right about one thing. No diet should require supplementation if it’s truly healthy. And that includes B12 supplementation. If I had tried a vegan diet without supplements, I probably wouldn’t have lasted a month.
“The human body can sometimes make taurine. Not in all humans, and not all the time, and not at the levels needed all the time.” Ummm yes, unfortunately all humans can make taurine. Unless they are some hybrid between a lion and a human, then medically speaking ALL humans can produce taurine.
“And that includes B12 supplementation.” More meat eaters are B12 deficient than vegans. When you cook meat or buy processed meats (like bacon) you are eating something that has less nutrition than cardboard. When you expose B12 – which if you did your research you would know it is produced by bacteria – you’ll know that any kind of heating or processing destroys those bacteria and the B12.
“Surely you are aware that many if not most humans do not get enough vitamin D from the sun” You do realise that it takes more than little fluffy clouds to deter radiation from the sun, right? That’s why even on very cloudy days solar panels can still produce electricity. That’s how even though it might be cloudy you can get sunburn. It would take a full solar eclipse to stop you from getting enough radiation from the sun to produce vit D for your daily needs. It really shouldn’t take a rocket scientist to explain this to you.
“You are not going to move me with these arguments. I did the research.” Clearly you haven’t done enough, you’ve formed an opinion, which is far removed from scientific fact. You’re not even providing a viable solution to the problem. But hey, you’re trying to run a business that, for the lack of a better word, promotes snake oil medicine. Good luck
I eat my hamburgers rare. With all the B12 intact.
Here is a well-researched article, which includes information about taurine: http://thepaleodiet.com/vegetarian-vegan-diets-nutritional-disasters-part-3/
More on B12: http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2012/02/15/how-to-avoid-the-most-dangerous-side-effect-of-veganism.aspx
64% of vegans are deficient in B12: http://www.westonaprice.org/health-topics/abcs-of-nutrition/vegetarianism-and-nutrient-deficiencies/
We’re having a blizzard here, which makes your comments about vitamin D especially amusing.
Are you fucking kidding me? You clearly don’t know SHIT about the world and how it works. Could this dipshit be any more clueless…? Watch Cowspiracy and Earthlings and please educate yourself. Fuck’ sake.
I think the best comment here is no comment.
You know, you’re right. We need to have changes in the way we think to make a better world. Veganism, for most people, IS such a change. No longer seeing non-human animals as here specifically to serve human animals, I would say, is a pretty significant paradigm shift. And veganism isn’t about total purity; animals die just because we’re here on the planet with them. But veganism is a step to doing the best we can not to harm them.
And about B12, most people are deficient, to some degree. B12 comes from bacteria, not animals, nor plants.
The ideas behind veganism are one perspective that would need to be integrated in holistic belief reprogramming in order to arrive at a workable solution. As I just mentioned on Facebook:
Even if you accepted the premise of veganism, and all of its assumptions are open to question … it still would only succeed in saving the animals if it were adopted by a very large portion of the population. Given that 84 percent or more of people don’t stay vegan or vegetarian, we know that veganism is not even close to gaining the support it would need. And that is largely because a vegan diet cannot sustain optimal health for most humans. So you surely can exercise your free will to keep pounding your head against the wall here but it won’t solve anything. Ironically, most of the people arguing with me here will soon enough be ex-vegans themselves.
Incidentally, even if a vegan diet had worked for me, and even if I had stayed vegan … I would still be rejecting veganism as a social justice movement on these grounds. It became apparent to me many months ago that vegans were engaged in a Sisyphean task that would go nowhere unless they started learning new skills. My impression, unfortunately, is that emotional imbalance and cognitive deficiency are so widespread that there is no ability in the vegan population (for the most part, there are exceptions) … to step back and be honest that “hey this is not working, maybe it’s time to look at new possibilities.”
I must reply to Maria:
Saying that all humans produce taurine is a blatant claim with no basis. My body doesn’t produce taurine, which is why a vegan diet put me in the hospital about six weeks in. I first found out that my body didn’t produce taurine during my stay at the hospital and I was told to get off the vegan diet, otherwise I would have permanent damage from it.
Wow Chris, thanks for sharing. I’m afraid that’s exactly where I was headed. If I had health insurance, I would have gone to a hospital that last weekend I was vegan. I felt terrified. And my intuition tells me that taurine was one of the problems.
Maria,
I think you need to be doing more research yourself, and not only about the taurine. Erika’s snappy comeback about the vitamin D says a lot, but not enough. Yes, it takes more than a few whispy clouds to reduce sunlight to a point that prevents us from producing enough vitamin D in our bodies, but roofs are considerably more substantial than those whispy clouds, and most of us in the west spend most of our time indoors. Furthermore, enough clothing to prevent getting a sunburn is also enough to prevent the production of vitamin D. Most of us do not spend near enough time outdoors in little enough clothing to allow our bodies to produce enough of this vitamin. We must suppliment.
Furthermore, the farther north or south of the tropics that you live the shorter the daylight hours in winter. In most of Europe and the US even if you were outside naked all day in the winter you would not get enough sunlight on your skin to produce enough vitamin D. Please get a dose of reality and do your own research before you condemn others for seeing only what they want to see.
Agreed. Add to that the Western brainwashing about always wearing sunscreen … and good luck getting sufficient vitamin D from the sun unless you are job-free and living in the tropics.
Read The Vegetarian Myth by former long term vegan Lierre Keith for a thorough exploration of all the fallacies present in the vegan ideology. Take a chance…Expand your mind!
please, stop calling yourself an “ex-vegan”
you were obviously never one in the first place,
other wise you would not be eating meat now.
you followed a plant based diet and now you dont
No comment
James proves that the vegan movement is like a cult and that adherents of the vegan movement are rotten people. I am not saying vegan because veganism and a vegan diet are not the same thing. As soon as a movement and ideology evolved around the vegan diet, it all went down to crap. Some vegans do not want to be associated with veganism because of the ignorance coming from the movement.
Um, Chris, veganism was *always* about the animals. And it’s not a cult. Although I’m starting to think there exists a secret cult of anti-vegans, somewhere, all saying the same things.
The fundamental problem with veganism is that it’s in denial about human welfare, and therefore has failed to account for human welfare. Which is why it will fail as a movement. The more of us ex-vegans there are, the harder it’s going to be to convert anyone. Because most of us will not be stupid enough to fall for it a second time.
Fail!!
Such articulate and intelligent comments do so much to further the vegan cause :D
“No comment”
That’s what I said :D
Thank you for sharing your views on this, although I do consider that you have made some fundamental factual and philosophical errors, as well as presenting something that is rife with suppositions and anecdotes, all of which is disappointing in someone who was a law graduate – one would hope that critical thinking methodologies would remain important even though you have chosen a different employment path…
The article also displays an extraordinary presumptuousness in claiming for yourself a “sign” when that man tragically died close to your apartment. To presume that his final, desperate moments were some kind of signal to you about your life is disturbing. His death was not a sign. His death was a personal catastrophe for him and a tragedy for those who loved him. It had nothing to do with you. Just because you were able to witness his final breaths from behind your apartment curtains does not make it some kind of “signal” for you to change your life. This is no different to those of various religious faiths who claim that the dying agonies of starving children are a “lesson” to the faithful about godliness. To appropriate his pain as a message for you to advance your “enlightenment” and “awakening” is really very sad.
Your entire article also conflates and confuses eating a plant-based diet and veganism, and treats them as though they were the same thing. They are not as I’m sure you really know. A plant-based diet is about the foods one chooses to eat. Veganism is a social justice philosophy which is, by definition, anti-elitist (no vegan believes themselves to be “better” than any other being, which is why they seek to dismantle all systems of exploitation and killing) and anti-discriminatory in all forms (whether against non-humans or other humans). The confusion in your article regarding these terms makes it difficult to read and indeed difficult to take seriously.
There are a few of your comments that I would draw particular attention to:
“I noticed that the thought of eating even one more vegetable or legume was absolutely abhorrent” – this is odd in the extreme. Our evolutionary heritage and musculoskeletal systems indicate that foods such as vegetables and legumes are extremely important and an intrinsic and natural part of the homo sapiens diet. To find eating something natural for our biology and biochemistry “abhorrent” is disturbing indeed. If nothing else, we know that we are not obligate carnivores. Your comment could prove very harmful in suggesting to others that they can eliminate vegetable matter from their diet.
“certified humane eggs” is a nonsensical statement. Knowing, as we do, that *all* egg production involves the wilful exploitation of sentient beings including their confinement, overwork (they toil without end to satisfy our demands) and premature killing, it makes no ethical sense to even attempt to describe “humane eggs”. That phrase (which of course has no legal definition) is clearly a sop to yourself to justify the purchase of “products” obtained through violence, cruelty and bloodshed.
“strict vegan diet” is also a nonsensical statement. Either a diet choice is plant-based or it is not. What on earth is a “strict” vegan diet? That phrase is clearly used by you to frighten people away from wanting to try a vegan diet, as though it is somehow difficult or “extreme”. In the so-called first world at least, and most certainly in the US, it is incredibly easy to adopt a varied, plant-based diet and there is nothing “strict” about it.
“it is abundantly clear that it is NOT POSSIBLE for most humans to get the nutrition they need on a strict vegan diet”. There’s that phrase again about a “strict” vegan diet. Dear, oh dear. And what is the evidence for this? How do you know that “most humans” cannot do this? Please cite the research (which should be credible, peer-reviewed research) behind this claim.
“dental problems that have plagued countless ex-vegans” – please cite the research (which should be credible, peer-reviewed research) behind this claim.
“the widespread prevalence of multiple nutritional deficiencies in long-term vegans” – please cite the research (which should be credible, peer-reviewed research) behind this claim.
“I’m sorry, but a diet that requires that many supplements and still has alarming symptoms like this is not in any way natural or healthy” – I’m sorry, but the anecdote that *you* had those symptoms and that *you* needed that many supplements is not evidence of this claim. Please cite the research (which should be credible, peer-reviewed research) behind this claim.
“I was immersed in vegan culture, and for the most part it was very angry and very ugly” and “The massive oversimplification, blind adherence to arbitrary “authority” figures, hypocrisy, and contradiction, boggled my mind” – I don’t for one moment doubt the in-fighting, judgementalism, attacking and even hatred that you experienced online. In what sense, however, do you suppose that that is specific or unique to those who adopt a plant-based diet or promote a vegan philosophy? That such things happen in the so-called vegan “community” is no different to any other space where you find humans gathered together! You clearly know this. It is highly disingenuous to seek to single out those who are vegan for what are clearly very disappointing and near-universal human attributes…
“I was dealing with an entire population of people whose brains – unbeknownst to them – were not functioning properly due to malnutrition” – that is an extraordinary generalisation. Please cite the research (which should be credible, peer-reviewed research) behind the claim that everyone (“an entire population”) who has a plant-based diet has deficient cognitive function.
“But feed all humans the grain intended for livestock? Really?” No, of course not. That is a strikingly odd simplification. Those who are concerned about the astonishing wastefulness of the “livestock” industry mention the grain as a dramatic indication of just how much land, water and energy is essentially wasted by producing food for farmed animals when that land, water and energy could be redirected towards growing plant foods (of various kinds) to feed the ever-growing and ever more demanding human population. No-one is really suggesting that we carry on growing that equal amount of grain (and only grain) and simply redistribute it to human mouths rather than non-human mouths. That really is very silly and it is highly disingenuous to suggest that that is the case.
“For me, veganism was about the end of death, literally. I want to abolish death on this planet.” Why? That’s really very silly! I don’t know any ethical vegans who are trying to “abolish death”, far from it. Pretty much every human I’ve ever met understands that mortality is a basic fact of being a (temporarily!) living biological entity. I’ve no idea what the impossibility of abolishing death (whatever that’s supposed to mean, it’s just a very odd phrase…) has to do with wanting to end systems of exploitation and violence by humans against non-humans, and ensuring that all who have life have a right to their life, which includes dying at a time that is natural for their kind rather than at the hand of an abuser.
“…veganism is dead and buried. Once you realize that most humans cannot be healthy on a vegan diet, the other arguments in favor of veganism just become ludicrous.” Please cite the research (which should be credible, peer-reviewed research) which supports the claim that “most humans” cannot be healthy on a plant-based diet. You will also know, I’m sure, that veganism, as an ethical philosophy, has as a foundational principle the proposition that we, as humans, do not have the moral right to inflict violence, mutilation, torture, suffering (physical, emotional and psychological) and death on non-humans (and other humans!) simply because we (a) have the power to do so and (b) want to satisfy some pleasure (food, clothing, entertainment) by doing so. Please explain why wanting to put an end to the intense, profound and very real suffering of sentient, sapient, pain-sensitive individuals is now “ludicrous” simply because *you* (and we only have the anecdotal evidence that it is you and a few others on the also anecdotal “Let Them Eat Meat” blog (and yes, I did read the interviews with an open mind)) found it so difficult to experience healthfulness on a plant-based diet.. As you well know, there are plenty of counter-argument vegan blogs and forums out there (veganhealth.org/,vegansocirty.com as just two of many examples) so it’s not going to take your argument very far. What your statements certainly do not address are the principal ethical reasons for removing oneself from the exploitative systems of violence and cruelty that are the inherent attributes of all animal farming and animal using industries.
“these bacon lovers may just be listening at some primal level to what their body needs.” No human body *needs* the corpse remains of a violently abused and tortured gentle, intelligent individual who suffered abysmally and did not want to die for that person’s “bacon craving”. At a primal level of course, we are all herbivores (try moving your lower jaw from left to right – yes, you can do it. That’s what herbivores do. That’s what *only* herbivores do – no obligate carnivores or obligate omnivores can do that) and we should witness and reflect upon what a human child wants to do when they meet with chickens and pigs and lambs and calves and cats and dogs and rabbits – they want to care for them and cherish them and they absolutely do not want to harm them, and they absolutely do not want to kill them and they absolutely do not want to eat them. The fact that we end up doing just that as “grown-ups” (hmmm…) and lie to our children that it’s “right” to do so because we “have to” is just social conditioning at work (and somebody’s big payday when we buy into it). Being “awake” is about recognising that and always advocating for compassion, care and love towards all of our fellow Earthlings, and only taking from the earth what we absolutely have to. Even if we, by some genetic quirk, cannot ourselves survive according to what our herbivorous, primate evolutionary heritage tells us how we can and should survive, it is irresponsible, ethically unjustifiable and morally offensive to seek to frighten others from a path of compassion and social justice which *they can follow*… as the many, many millions of healthy persons living and thriving on a plant-based diet provide ample testimony.
It would be great if you could use your widely-read online platform to promote and advocate for what our world desperately needs so much more of – compassion, kindness, generosity and love. The sad fact that your blog posts describe as “miracles” things such as “getting a brand new car”, when there’s two billion humans on Earth who would just like to have a toilet thank you very much, suggests that your priority is not in helping everyone to “awaken” to the important issues in our world but simply talking up self-satisfaction amongst that minority on Earth who are lucky and/or privileged enough to already have money and possessions and who really don’t need ever more money and possessions…
Richard J Deboo
Author: Nine Steps To Eden: The Humane Route To Paradise / Who Speaks For Earthlings?
Plenty of fallacies there. A plant based diet is the same as a vegan diet.
Here is a peer-reviewed study on the dental problems of vegans: http://www.researchgate.net/profile/Domenico_Dalessandri/publication/49739421_Oral_implications_of_the_vegan_diet_observational_study/links/0c96051b484ae6396f000000.pdf
You don’t seem to be very knowledgeable in psychiatry. Evolutionary biology is not important in the scenario of malnutrition as the psyche will change and the subject will eventually despise the main objects of said diet.
Suggesting that comments can be very harmful in the sense you used it is a clear sign of emotional bias.
You asking for research on her reaction to a vegan diet suggests that you expect every human to be the same which is not the case. Genetic material is different from person to person. Therefore everyone may have a different reaction to a vegan diet. Some may find a vegan diet quite sustainable. Others, me included cannot survive on a vegan diet due to lack of bodily production of aminoacids otherwise found in meats.
On the abolishing death part, you purposely took it out of context to ridicule Erika. And if you really do not get it, it should have been clear that it meant “abolishing death (context: of animals by humans to the benefit of the human)”.
On the part where you ask for a citation of research that most humans cannot survive on a vegan diet. I somewhat agree with you on the matter. However she should have said that many (as in: more than just a few) humans cannot survive on a vegan diet due to bodily quirks as mentioned before.
I disagree on the morality part. It is still survival of the fittest. Defend yourself against a lion or a wolf with pacifism. You will be eaten. While I disagree with factory farming. I am all for free roaming sources of meat. Plus I actually lack enough empathy to otherwise not care about animals, however I do believe in dignity and do not believe that anyone or anything should live in the conditions presented in factory farming.
*Open mind*; You certainly don’t sound like an open mind but rather someone seeking to discredit others for their criticism of veganism. Alas, you are quite biased and trying to present yourself as intelligent and rational still doesn’t compensate for bias.
Paragraph with the bacon: You use a lot of emotional language, rendering you irrational. You also assume that all bacon comes from an animal that suffered dearly. When I hunt snakes, I make sure that their death is quick and as painless as possible. It is a bad omen to let snakes suffer.
Suggesting that humans on an evolutionary scale are herbivores is incorrect. Our closest evolutionary relatives, the chimpanzee and the gorilla, are omnivorous meaning they eat both meat and plants. They however eat meat in moderation. Most primates are omnivorous. It is even suggested that the common ancestor of the human, the chimpanzee, the gorilla and the bonobo was omnivorous. If you still intend to disagree, present your proof. Here’s mine: http://books.google.de/books?id=vQQFWkNyYc8C&pg=PA536&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q&f=false http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn14926-loving-bonobos-have-a-carnivorous-dark-side.html#.VSSn6eFX-6F
Compassion, kindness, generosity and love are things that I have seen a lack of in vegan commentors so far. The lack of them is even visible when vegans have to deal with criticism and people who do not intend to go vegan.
All in all, I disagree with ideological and extreme positions as some things go better for some people than for others.
-Chris
Staunch believer in eliminating bias in science for the sake of progress. Also hobby philosopher of epistemology and scientific methodology. (Since you had to post your title as an author, I guess I should do the same.)
Cheers.
PS: Richard, one more fallacy to declare. You constantly ask for research, yet you make claims and do not post any sources to back your claims. Oh the irony.
Hi, Chris. The only tooth decay I have had in 23 years as a vegan happened because I didn’t notice that a pre-existing filling had fallen out.
I suppose, since you’re all about the science, you will be happy to tell us precisely which amino acids your body cannot manufacture and whether there is a name for your condition.
I have to laugh at your “logic”. You eat lambs and pigs and cows because lions would eat you if they had the chance? Do you realise how that sounds?
Great. Once again, this proves nothing about the rest of the population. I read enough horrific stories from ex-vegans who ended up with a mouthful of cavities to be very alarmed.
It has been shown that deer and other ruminants will eat small critters, especially ground nesting birds. But cows have been observed to eat whole chickens!
That they all eat insects already makes them non-vegan. Indeed, what mammal on the planet doesn’t eat insects in one way or another?
Richard J Deboo, that was just amazing.
Thank you!
Isabel
Thank you Richard for covering most of the “fundamental factual and philosophical errors” and then some. While reading, I kept thinking : “wrong”, “incomplete though process”, “not valid”, “out of contexte”, “not relevant”, “generalizations”, “distorted bias dramatizations”, “sophisms”, “denial”, “conveniency”, “contradictions”, “looking for lame excuses” etc. It was quite painful to read such a bias unilateral thinking article, as is most of what is written by those who did it wrong and failed miserably… and did not capture at ALL the essence of this much needed ideology and its solid factual accuracy. The “Listen to your body” statement was one of the funniest though, i.e. I’m craving sugar and caffeine = it’s good for my body? And, she wants to put an end to Death? Seriously? Death is a blessing compared to a life-time of enslaved misery and abuse. We are nearing 8 billion humans, There are no valid arguments against the million logical proofs and facts explaining why a carnist diet is killing us, the animals, the planet. There is no valid point in this article in my opinion, none, except one : ” I knew something was very, very wrong.” —-> Obviously, she was doing it wrong! At the end, It’s only a matter of someone who loves the taste of cadavers, no matter the horrific costs and consequences, trying to discredit with frail arguments, the only ethical humane way of living. I have more respect for meat-eaters giving us this only real reason, instead of digging for so many flawed excuses, incomplete/partial/anecdotal theories and fallacies.
There’s no valid argument against you committing suicide. That’s the only way you can do least harm. So why aren’t you doing it?
Lmfao, it keeps getting better, Erika awakening? Poor you, seriously, go back to sleep ;-) It’s pretty much what you are doing obviously, go back to your deep convenient sleeeep ZZzzzzzzzzzzzzz!
Thank you Meliza, for being yet another example of what we are talking about in the new article:
https://erikaawakening.com/vegan-philosophy-collapses-contradictions-hypocrisy/
Erika,
Do you believe that animals matter morally? In other words, should people be able to treat and use animals like objects… for economic gain, pleasure, entertainment, etc? Asked in a more general way, is it wrong to hurt animals?
Of course it is. We all agree to that. Is it necessary? Absolutly not. Any health issue that a person has, eating the decaying flesh of an animal will not help.
Go vegan and educate others about veganism. Stop thinking about yourself for just a second and think of the animals. It is morally wrong to use them for any purpose.
Defending youself is like a slave ownder defending slavery in the Civil War.
Please read The Vegetarian Myth by former long time vegan Lierre Keith if you wish to understand just how ridiculous you comments are.
Good morning Erika – I do not consider myself a vegan, I consider myself a plant based foodie. I quit eating meat, fish and poultry because I didn’t like the taste. I quit eating dairy and egg when I had food sensitivity tests and found that the reason my stomach very time I ate eggs by themselves was due to severe sensitivity to egg. Didn’t like milk either.
I believe that every one has the right to choose the way they live their life.
I too have been on vegan sites and read all of the negativity towards those who do not believe the exact way they do. I have had several vegans respond to a Facebook post that they could never stay in a relationship with a murderer. My response was “Really. I have been married for 30 years.I will never force him to change his entire way of life because of my choices” I got more negative responses. I am glad that you are in tune with your body that you are taking steps to heal yourself. I will continue to eat a plant based diet but if at some point I need animal products, I am not opposed to fish. I don’t crave it but I would eat it. Good luck in your new journey.
Hi Kimberley,
Thanks for your thoughtful comment. I feel embarrassed to admit that in the height of my vegan days, I expressed the same sentiments. I sincerely believe my brain was unbalanced by the diet and led me to be far more extreme than was really warranted. I see it as an ego trick. Pretending to solve a problem while actually making it worse.
Anyway, I appreciate your balanced approach. Thanks for chiming in.
Erika, since I started reading your post I noticed that you are pretty “extreme”. (which I actually found fascinating at times).
However, as you were extreme already on your omnivore-diet, it’s obvious that it’s simply a personality trait of yours which has nothing to do with your diet.
As I’ve told you many times now, you are not going to understand my exploration of polarities until you learn my healing method. Why you would follow my posts for all this time without learning anything about it is baffling to me. I simply see it as psychological reversal. I will ignore any further comments about it, as I am getting really weary of repeating myself.
Thanks for having the guts to be so forthright. I’m sorry you’ve had a hard time from so many Vegans. I agree that a strict vegan diet isn’t for everyone. I’ve been Vegan for 8 years and I’m not thriving or strong. I’ve had health issues since childhood, related to food allergies, so I know everyone is different. I would never eat meat again, and I was a happy and healthy vegetarian before going vegan. I’m considering adding eggs back into my diet, from our own “pet ” chickens. They lay too many anyway…and there’s no rooster to fertilise them, so they go to waste. Still thinking about all this but YAY to you for taking your health into consideration. :-)
Hi Jen, thanks for being honest about not feeling thriving or strong. It’s too soon to say but preliminarily it looks like my food sensitivities have gotten better after I added animal products back to my diet. It would not surprise me if the lack of DHA/EPA was the real reason I was getting inflammation from grains, soy, and so forth. I am not going to draw any firm conclusions though until I’ve tested it longer. I don’t see any reason to let eggs go to waste if your body would benefit from the nutrients. Thanks for stopping by.
I’m sorry to hear that you had a difficult time with a vegan diet. As a plant-based professional I do believe anyone can thrive on a whole-food plant-based diet, which is definitely not the same thing as just eating vegan. Just ask Dr. Esselstyn, T. Collin Campbell, Neal Barnard or Dean Ornish who have proven that a WFPB diet can not only prevent heart and health problems, but can reverse it. Nor is eating vegan the same thing as following a vegan lifestyle. Also as a student of yoga, I believe that being vegan is a quintessential part of practicing both non-violence and compassion and most of the spiritual gurus I look up to follow a vegan lifestyle. Hopefully with proper guidance and examples, more people can get the support they need to thrive as a vegan because I know I could not do it without the help and support of the vegan community and loved ones. Namaste
Hi Plantbased yogi, I appreciate the calm and non-attacking tone of your comment. I don’t agree with you, and that’s okay. I was on a whole foods plant-based diet. I was “doing everything right.” And I have read the accounts of many other people in my boat. We do not all have the same genetics or biochemistry. What works for one does not work for another. Blessings to you.
Ditto what Erika said. I tried every version of veganism under the sun and just got sicker and sicker.
Another chink in the vegan armor for me is that somehow I ended up in the Raw Til 4 raw vegan group. It was, again, like a cult. And the nutritional advice being given there as if it were gospel was downright dangerous. Yet people were buying into it, hook, line, and sinker. And as in many vegan groups I participated in, as soon as I started questioning the “party line,” I was hushed and threatened.
Good luck on all that saturated fat and cholesterol you are consuming now
As you may know, the French eat large amounts of saturated animal fat and yet don’t have high rates of heart disease.
Hi! I noticed you mention France as having low heart disease despite consuming large amounts of animal products, but this could be due to their large intake of fiber/ the fact that they walk a lot off-setting the negative effects. Also, Russia has an extremely high rate of heart disease, some of the worst actually and they eat way more than the recommended amount of animal products.
Could be .. nobody knows for sure … the point is there is no direct relationship between animal fat consumption and heart problems. The Israeli paradox also suggests this. And while science changes its mind often, the more recent research suggests the real problems may lie elsewhere, such as processed omega 6 oils. I would imagine one of the bigger problems I had was eating nuts and seeds without the fatty fish to balance out the equation. But it was clear I was dealing with multiple deficiencies.
There have been enough studies of this to have a reasonably good idea, even if no one is sure. It is directly related to their consumption of red wine and certain chemicals in that wine which break down the cholesterol and saturated fats. You get some of the same benefits from other wines and beers as well, but the health groups do not disseminate this information much because it tends to go against the rest of their message about how bad all alcoholic beverages are for you.
That is yet another example of sound research being buried by interest groups who only care about their agendas, and a society that much prefers radicalism in any form to healthy moderation.
Personally I have felt intuitively and consistently drawn toward moderate use of red wine and coffee since I was in a position to make decisions for myself in college.
Hi Krista,
Numerous studies have proven that dietary cholesterol has no effects on blood cholesterol in the vast majority of the population. You can find sources for several studies embedded in this article: http://chriskresser.com/the-diet-heart-myth-cholesterol-and-saturated-fat-are-not-the-enemy
Krista – I highly recommend The Big Fat Surprise by Nina Teicholz. It will upend everything you thought you knew about the “dangers” of saturated fat and cholesterol.
I have never tried to a vegan diet. I don’t think it would work for me simply because I don’t always eat right anyhow. A vegan diet is definitely not for everyone.
Been vegan for decades.. never had any issues. Still in good shape. And my wife had 3 kids, all raised vegan and healthy grown-ups now. No problems. But testimonials are anecdotal–there is no scientific data to back up a claim that a vegan diet is not sufficient, there is data to suggest it is healthier.
well.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/08/06/advice-from-a-vegan-cardiologist/
After seeing vegan “nutrition doctors” shade the truth they know to push an agenda, they lost a lot of credibility with me. An example would be PCRM glossing over the DHA/EPA issue. Given how critical DHA/EPA is to human health and growing fetus and children’s health … I find this absolutely shocking.
Yes, Erika, the DHA/EPA thing can be a bit complicated, so here it is in a nutshell:
Sorry we are not going to link to that website. I’ve heard enough to know her nutritional information is not accurate.
You posted an article from a newspaper about a vegan cardiologist. That is not proof, that is testimonial – as you said it is insufficient. A vegan doctor is also likely to be biased. Can you link any scientific papers that link vegan diets as more healthy solutions? Because out of experience, I know that due to the variations from person to person genetically, there is no perfect diet as depending on the body of the individual, a healthy diet may be different for everyone.
every amine we require is present in aloe vera, bee pollen (which i consider to be an ethical symbiotic harvest, moreso than even honey though there definitely are varying degrees of husbandry in regards to ethical collaboration with these essential allies.
Hello,
Please do not group all vegans into generalized categories. I have been vegan for 6 years as well as a practicing yogi. I am very happy, healthy, and strong. Not all vegans are angry and uncompassionate and I see that you have acknowledge that veganism can be good for a small few and a small few are compassionate. Thank you. I do so hope it remains so for me. I also think many meat eaters are compassionate. Veganism was an extension of yoga philosophy for me. It’s more for karma reasons than ethical. We all have different paths to take and different lessons to learn in this lifetime. It seems you were ready to learn about health and to get in touch with your personal body. By the way, I also follow holistic practices and EFT. You can love animals and still eat them. There are other things we can do. Whenever people tell me they want to try veganism, I tell them the truth….it’s not as easy and requires a lot of education. There is a lot of trial and error involved. It’s not a good idea at all to go straight vegan. I did at first and suffered health wise. I went vegetarian for many years and then decided to do tons of research and trials with different foods and my body before going vegan again. It’s definitely not for everyone! Good luck with wherever life leads you.
Good job. The first vegan that isnt a dick. I agree with you on many things except for the holistic and EFT part. Everyone has their own path and no one should be guilted into following a specific ideology or diet.
It is completely unnecessary to predate rapaciously upon other sentient beings … nor can any spiritual discipline be apt to a grander cosmic alignment whilst it’s professed practitioners harbour senseless conduct in impropriety of greater good yet.
That may be, however there is not a vegan on the planet who doesn’t kill animals. If it were such a spiritually exalted path, consumption would be entirely unnecessary. Perhaps better to humbly acknowledge where we are, and what a long way we have to go …
With all due respect, you are going backwards sister and you have not applied to the eat to live principle but rather have been eating in fear and comparison …. much of your symptom syndrome has been psychosomatic and I put it to you that you have not investigated symbiosis from a thorough perspective. I have worked in retreat modes and am somewhat of a helpful character where concerns epiphanic space and nutritive panic. You are clearly unaware that the ‘shift’ to a vegan metabolism actually takes longer than three and a half years, you only got half way toward a cellular renewal and you panicked and consulted satan as it were at the very cusp of releasing psychosomatic neurological detritus form the bodies (plural).
Yea kind of like how so many of those ex-vegans were told that their bodies were “detoxing” when all their teeth rotted out?
clearly some errant stats have your attention at the minute, there are many noted examples of nutritional deficiency in the omnivorous populaces, ie. families have been known to suffer anaemia from eating too much rabbit flesh …. pretty hard to be iron deficient with enough vitamin c and parsley though
Try running that one by a menstruating woman. I have been taking a $40/month iron supplement that has to be refrigerated. When I slacked off on it even for a short time, I felt utterly exhausted. I was eating lots of nuts and seeds and should have been getting plenty of iron. Clearly my body was not absorbing it well. And that’s of course what studies show. There is a vast world of difference between heme and non-heme iron. Not to mention, if you eat too many nuts and seeds and don’t eat fatty fish, you’re going to have a serious inflammatory issue on your hands.
calcium is ample in sesame btw. and iodine is ample in seaweed as regards the tooth deficiency scenario you allude to
Bio-availability issues plus there’s only so much sesame you can eat in a day … and eating a lot of it further skews the omega 6 to omega 3 ratio. It’s basically impossible to get any decent ratio on a vegan diet anyway unless taking algae supplements at high dosage.
I don’t know where you went wrong. But I take issue with your assumption that vegans have bad teeth. I’ve been vegan for 23 years and the only decay I’ve had is where an old filling fell out and I didn’t notice.
Hi Ms. Vanilla Rose, I’m glad you have not had major dental problems. I am not making an assumption. I am writing this after doing extensive research and reading the accounts of numerous ex-vegans about what happened to their bodies on a vegan diet. A shocking number of them reported suddenly out of the blue sky having a mouth full of cavities, teeth breaking off, etc. It’s not something to trifle with … thanks for stopping by.
Christophe: You are in no place to abuse the topic of psychosomatic illness like that. If you have no clue, then please shut up about it.
“NOT POSSIBLE for most humans to get the nutrition they need on a strict vegan diet.” There is an estimated 8 million vegans in the United States and I doubt there would be that many if they had ill health issues! Wouldn’t doctors that promote a plant based diet be telling their patients to take all those supplements that you mentioned if they needed to? Doctors like Caldwell Esselstyn, Joel Fuhrman, Neal Barnard, Colin Campbell, John McDougall. And even if we did why wouldn’t we just take those supplements then instead of supporting the cruel treatment and suffering of animals, and helping our planet by eating plant based? Just read this today! thehill.com/regulation/237767-vegan-diet-best-for-planet-federal-report-says
Some of those doctors do acknowledge the nutritional issues, and for example Dr. Fuhrman – as I wrote in the anger article – prescribes his super expensive algae supplement to address it. Some of the more responsible vegan teachers do acknowledge it. Some of the less responsible vegan teachers I’ve completely lost respect for, after doing so much research. What they are teaching is downright dangerous for most humans. As for the responsible ones … Funny though how I was taking supplements for every nutrient they mentioned and still having problems. As well, when I slacked off the supplements even a little bit, things crashed very fast. I’m not willing to live like this, and I don’t consider it a natural and healthy diet anymore. Beyond that, vegans are still killing animals and as far as I can tell really don’t have any moral high ground. So they can keep preaching at me but it’s highly unlikely to change my mind. The way to address this is by reprogramming the subconscious mind.
we only nee to be aware of the vegetal nutritional sources… grazing creatures the world over have less choice than we apex grazers (if we so deign to honour our duty of care to sentient life) yet they procure ample levels of b12 for example (which does not metabolise as effectively weight for weight as does the vegetal equivalent) and in any case one does not break down and assimilate it without folic acid from vegetation. Fungiform life and bacterial life are essential cultures for us to industrialise as a species if we are to even reach our true potential.
Fantastic! I think one of the most powerful thing any of us can do is to open our minds to the possibility that we might be wrong about a cherished belief, e.g. veganism, and be willing to change our ways to something that works better if that’s appropriate.
I don’t have any personal experience or professional knowledge about vegan/vegetarian diets (although I’m not convinced they could be much worse than the modern American diet with so many unnatural processed foods, but that’s another story.)
Anyway, it seems to me that being militantly attached to a position (for example veganism, religion/atheism, or a political persuasion) and the accompanying sense of moral outrage& righteous indignation can be an even bigger impediment to health and happiness than anything we might eat. A sense of certainty is the enemy of learning. Good for you!
Thanks Cameron … yea I feel like I learned from this that I may not need to go all the way into one side of a polarity anymore to explore it … Healing is the collapse of polarities. And so any absolutist position is by definition unhealed. The great thing about Holistic Belief Reprogramming is that we throw all perspectives in the mix, and ultimately it all integrates into an organic, unified perspective. It’s a self-correcting method, which is why the more I tapped, the more I could see that veganism wasn’t solving anything. I am lucky the method is smarter than I am lol ;) Thanks for stopping by …
“And so any absolutist position is by definition unhealed”
This is an absolutist position! By definition!
You’re right, even that we can nuance. Because true ideals are absolutist, but that doesn’t mean that absolutism is the way to achieve those ideals. Forcing “never eat animal products” into a world where there are so many unhealed ego beliefs that make that ineffective and impossible .. is not working. What would work is to integrate all perspectives, including the ones you don’t like. And that requires new skills.
I have never tried a vegan diet. I tried vegetarianism, but only for two months…
I hate the superiority complex that some vegans and vegetarians get. As humans I think we just enjoy judging others unfortunately.
I am glad you have found a diet that will keep you healthier and happy!
Hi Jessica, thanks for your comment. Sometimes it seems to me that the “superiority complex” just arises out of seeing so much pain and not knowing what to do about it …
what is misconstrued as superiority in the majority of ethical choice is down to folk’s inability to realise the rights of other fellow beings
Christophe: The fact that you don’t realise how arrogant you sound. The problem most dogmatic vegans have is that they do not realise their arrogance and how they act if non-vegans are subhuman.
Christophe has been put in the spam folder. I’m afraid he devolved into personal attacks and very strange comments that I don’t think are helpful to the overall discussion.
Christophe,
it is not misconstrued as anything. Although they have not used the specific word yet it is simply and properly construed as self-righteousness, and in my experience the self-righteous always think themselves superior to everyone else. Upon closer examination you can always find serious problems with their self-justifications.
Quite frankly, until all evil is eliminated from the world there can never be a workable “do no harm” philosophy. Any corrective process involves tearing something down before it can be replaced and that will always be a painful and destructive process.
Furthermore, not all exploitation is evil. Sometimes it is a necessary symbiosis that makes things better for both parties and in some cases neither party can exist without it. Just because there are too many people who take more than they are supposed to from such relationships (causing some harm to both of them) does not make all exploitation evil and something that must be eliminated. All too often that results in even greater damage than the over-exploitation does. Why do you think there are so many co-dependent people in the world?
As unhealthy as a co-dependent relationship is, I have never seen one where the giver is 100% abused giver — they are always taking something from the relationship and the taker always gives something to the relationship. The giver is always fulfilling some deep, unfulfilled need in themselves when they give in this way or they would not allow the taker to get away with such behavior for as long as they do.
You people examine a complex system about 2 or 3 steps away from where you are standing within it, have no understanding of any relationships beyond that and no clue what the effects of your opinions or actions have as the effects move out through the web.
Some links that might be encouraging on your new path:
charleseisenstein.net/the-ethics-of-eating-meat
aeon.co/magazine/nature-and-cosmos/rhys-southan-vegan-invasion
theconversation.edu.au/ordering-the-vegetarian-meal-theres-more-animal-blood-on-your-hands-4659
And some quotes from:
quora.com/Are-animals-killed-in-the-process-of-farming-vegetarian-foods
“In addition to the countless unavoidable deaths of small animals due to mowing, tillage and pest management, organic farming relies heavily on animal manure for fertility. Animal manures that come primarily from confined animals, raised for meat or eggs.
Conventional farming relies heavily on highly soluble synthetic nitrogen, which leaches into waterways and causes hypereutrophication, destroying aquatic habitats and killing countless marine animals.”
“I suppose suicide is the most sincere form of Veganism.”
Yea unfortunately as I said, I think veganism is attempting to accomplish a worthy goal (the end of death) by means that can never work. I remain open to a project reprogramming the subconscious mind but at least right now, I have no intention of doing so without massive support (financial, people power, emotional, and otherwise). It’s not a small project.
A world without death would be hell on Earth. As Eisenstein’s piece says beautifully, death need not be a calamity to be escaped. It is rightly seen as an essential part of a larger harmony to be embraced with respect.
The goal should not be to end death, but to minimize infliction of unnecessary suffering and to live with a humble, respectful balance.
death is not the issue, folk’s respect for life is
Death is absolutely the core issue here, and no diet is going to solve that problem. Adjusting around death with all kinds of special rules and regulations makes people miserable but does not solve anything.
Veganism is about reducing UNNECESSARY suffering as well as at all possible. Of course we cannot get rid of all suffering, but at least we try.
The complete “abolishment of death” is YOUR goal Erika. It is not stated in vegan principles.
We certainly can get rid of all suffering, and veganism is not the way to do it. Veganism is a recipe for increased human suffering, and therefore it is unacceptable.
Oh dear, Anonymous, those old chestnut? Done and dusted. Regarding the “blood on hands” article, see this: vanillarosetangents.blogspot.co.uk/2014/03/succinct.html. I don’t know whether you genuinely haven’t heard about vegan-organic farming or whether you’re just ignoring it. But I’m pretty sure you know about what slurry and methane are doing to the environment.
My approach on diet and life overall is balance. A balanced nutrition is important for a healthy lifestyle all we do in excess hurts our health. Being too strict or fanatic doesn’t help either. I’m glad you are feeling better and that you opt for the balanced nutrition route. Congratulations!
Hi, Erica. Thanks for sharing your story.
I was a strict vegan for 5 years, and a vegetarian for 20 years before that. I studied the work of T. Colin Cambell, read a LOT about diet and health, watched Forks Over Knives, etc. And, I have to admit, became fairly righteous about my veganism, having determined it to be the best diet for health and the planet and compassion toward animals.
Ultimately, however, the proof was in the actual results in the body. Two and a half years ago I reintroduced meat and gave up (for the most part) grains and cut way back on sweeteners of all kinds. And now, at 48, I feel healthier than I have ever felt in my life. Vitality increased dramatically, weight dropped off, the muscles became firm yet supple, aches and pains evaporated. Libido increased.
So, there it is. I’m an ex-righteous-vegan. The longer I live and the more I learn the less convinced I am that any particular diet is the “right” diet. Everyone’s got their own journey. The best we can do is open our hearts and minds, breathe, have compassion and allow ourselves to be informed by all of the Intelligence that comes, by Grace, into our lives.
Thanks for sharing yourself with the world the way you do.
Dapple
Hi Dapple, thanks for sharing your experience. Yes, and it seems to underscore how important it is to listen to our body. I agree, it has been a humbling experience for me also, in a good way ;)
One year of research & you quit when you had ‘ bad ‘ symptions ? I think a bit premature . If you never heard anyone talk about Vit A etc . perhaps your research was lacking . And I have found lots on the items you listed . Sorry , you chose to not stick it through , but it is your choice . All the best .
Wow what an arrogant asshole.
Hi Dapple – you might have gotten the same results simply by reducing grains (especially wheat) and sweeteners, without adding meat back in.
Dapple, just so you know, my food sensitivities have improved a lot since I added animal products back to my diet. I’m even eating some wheat again. It’s too soon to say for sure but I definitely wouldn’t listen to the anorexic/vegan/eating disorder community when they recommend things like eliminating foods and fasting. Most likely it stems from their own martyrdom. Not to say there aren’t times when it makes sense to eliminate a food. I just wouldn’t listen to vegans about when that time might be because pretty soon they will have you subsisting as an emaciated skeleton on grass and twigs :D
I completely agree with you, the only way it would be possible is if you lived a seditary life and didn’t need your muscles to operate your body. I agree with a lot of the efforts to make places more humane where we get our protein. I do not in any way like animal cruelty, but the fact is our bodies were made to eat meat and sustain ourselves on the right balance of proteins carbs and fats and when you are eating in balance, your body is in balance. I’m so glad you have realized and I also completely understand what it is like to receive pressure and judgement from the groups we have associated ourselves with. A long long time ago I was apart of a breastfeeding group for women until it turned incredibly sour when one of the women in the group had a job change and had no place to store her breastmilk for her baby and she chose to stop pumping and breastfeeding. Suddenly the entire group seemed to be against her choice and she really didn’t have any other options. I left the group just because of the cruelty. I hate when people austrosize others for their lifestyles or opinions and I hope you can now get the support from other groups so you can get to where you need to be healthwise! :)
Dear Erika,
It feels good to read your health is improving. I feel happy for you.
After 4 years of malnutrition, it might be a good idea to check your bone density. What do you think?
xxx
Hi Zara,
I don’t think I’ve had four years of malnutrition. I was vegetarian for 2.5 years, which means I was consuming dairy on a daily basis. There is the vitamin D issue, but I was supplementing for much of this time.
During the vegetarian time period, probably the biggest missing nutrients were the omega 3 fatty acids, DHA and EPA. On the other hand, I have been eating a non-junk food, organic, non-GMO diet high in anti-oxidants.
Reading about other ex-vegans, it sounds like most were able to get back their health within about 3 months or so. We’ll see how it goes … :) I already found five white hairs that turned back to brown near the front of my head :)
Thanks for your concern.
There is no “vitamin D issue” if you go out in the sun for 30 minutes a day (even if the sun is not shining it works) !
This is the last comment of yours that I will be responding to until you start practicing HBR. Your comment is especially amusing because we are in the midst of a blizzard here.
Now now Erika. Even though I may seem to be white knighting you currently. I will have to say: Vitamin D is normally not an issue when you are exposed to the sun as the skin reacts to the emissions of the sun, turning melanine into Vitamin D. Eat carrots and you get melanine.
We had a blizzard here these past few days. Shall I go out sunbathing in eight inches of snow?
Since you helpfully provided info about taurine and dental issues, Chris, let me offer that vitamin D is actually quite challenging for many people to obtain naturally. Especially anyone who has a desk job, lives in latitudes far from the Equator, older people, etc.
Vitamin D deficiency is extremely common, and a vegan diet eliminates the best food sources of vitamin D.
https://www.vitamindcouncil.org/about-vitamin-d/am-i-deficient-in-vitamin-d/
For cases of inaccessibility to the sun, there are multiple alternatives such as high power UV lights, tanning beds and those warmth producing red lamps.
Feel free to send funds to my PayPal account to cover the costs of not just eating regular food. :)
hi Erika,
Thanks so much for sharing your experience in such a candid and open way. I’ve never been a vegan because to me it never made sense, knowing what human bodies need biologically. As soon as I became aware of what happens in the bio-industry I decided to only eat organic meat, and much less than I used to. For sure we don’t need astronomical quantities of meat but we do need it.
It takes courage to write about your 180 degrees turn and I respect you for that.
Take care .
Thank you Andres. Although I have received a great deal of criticism about this choice, I have also received some of the most heart-warming and supportive responses that I’ve ever received. I appreciate those people who understand how much courage it takes to stand up and say “I was wrong, or at least the answer I thought was our solution is nowhere close to a satisfactory solution.” Much gratitude for your kindness. And yes I agree, people don’t need nearly as much animal products as they are consuming. And we’d probably all do well to focus on quality (no more factory farmed meat, no more industrial eggs, no more non-organic factory farm dairy) … and reduce quantity. Right now though I’m going to eat as much as my body needs to rebuild my reserves.
Wow, this came as a surprise! Anyway, it’s your body, your health, your decision. That’s all that matters. :)
What a great story, Erika! I’m glad you were able to realize what was going on and change to feel better. I know it’s a struggle when you love animals to also eat meat.
Hi Stephanie, yea it’s not like I’m super excited about the idea, I’m just not willing to lose my health over it. And it is probably good it happened because it made me realize that the vegan movement is going to have to think way more deeply about how this can be accomplished. Forcing a diet on people that doesn’t meet basic nutritional needs is not going to work long-term. We are going to need a better answer, and my guess is the only answer that will work is reprogramming the subconscious mind. Human genetic programming would have to be changed.
I just have to say that every persons body is different and what works for some may not work for others. I do believe that the man dying basically in front you was a sign. I am glad you are starting to feel.
Hi Rebecca, thank you. I’ve been feeling all along. I knew something was going on. It just took me a while to connect the dots and figure out what the problem was … your support is much appreciated.
Erika,
I hope that other’s read your story. I know that humans were born to hunt for food, pick veggies or fruit along the way, fish in the stream, ect in the old days when there wasn’t a grocery store around.
I know that our diets today are over processed which has come at a cone bc our mom’s mom wanted to work. Now we aren’t afford the opportunity to grow our food while kids are at school, go exchange goods with other families. This is about being a stay at home mom. This comment boils down to the fact that we are no longer growing crops locally and we are relying on genetically modified seeds to yield the results thst are in demand.
My great grandparents were local farms here in Tx. They grew corn, black Eyed peas, watermelon, and cotton.
I’ve gone down the rabbits hole. I hope this makes sense.
Yea it feels sad sometimes how alienated we are now from what we eat. I don’t think the S.A.D. (standard American diet) is any better than a vegan diet. For now, I’m going to take it day by day and listen to what my body needs. Thanks for your support.
Great article, I personally have never been to keen on a vegan diet; it’s something I just could never do.
Sorry some are treating you like you went over to the dark side. This is a choice you have made for your health and people need to respect that.
Thanks Debbie. Yes, I rather naively believed that humans really can live without animal products. And perhaps some can. But not most. Now I’ve lived it, and I know. I appreciate your kindness.
I can’t respect a selfish decision that leads to no real benefit for humans nor animals.
My PayPal account is open for receiving funds, Breanna. How about you send me enough money so I can be taken care of as an invalid for the rest of my life? Then we’ll believe that you actually mean what you say. Most vegans just like to mouth off and act superior. They won’t actually match their actions to their words. I hope you all realize that anyone reading these comments who may have been thinking about becoming vegan surely decided against it based on the viciousness and hatefulness of the vegan community.
My sister in law is a vegan and loves that lifestyle. Me? I am not willing to give up cheeseburgers….
I think when all is said and done… You have to do what is right for you. Keep being awesome!
Hi Sheldon, thank you so much for your support. Yes, the harsh criticism that I received from many vegans seems pretty insignificant compared to the very loud messages from my own body. Hope to see you again here soon :)
Hey Erika,
thank you so much for sharing your truth and your willingness to open your mind to what your body has been trying to tell you!
I had a similar experience with the “Macro-Biotic” diet back in the 1980’s…
Thanks for your courage in facing up to the “fundamentalists” of the food world.
peace!
Mark
Hi Mark,
I so appreciate you stopping by to share your experience. The support means a lot to me. And yes, I received a huge amount of criticism from the vegan community. I also though received quite a few comments from others who have had the same experience as me and have started eating animal products again.
Hope to see you here again soon!
Love,
Erika
OK, lets say you went Vegan and IT DIDNT WORK (??? so confused by this “DIDNT WORK”) , why would you ever speak for eating meat? YOu know that we are putting billions of animals through suffering? depleeting resources by eating meat? ETC…
So one day you where like “hey look all the billions of animals that we murder, and HEY LOOK we are depleeting the resources of the earth…..” , and then you went “not feeling so good, better murder something and go PRO-murder(?)”
Sounds so weird.
You’re murdering animals as you speak. Why is suicide not the logical outcome of the vegan philosophy? It’s the only way you can do least harm.
This is such a bunch of crap! Girlfriend did not do her homework, girlfriend sure enough did not eat right and then girlfriend blames veganism with such a bunch of stinking crap I am not going to comment, except for the “brilliant” part in which she DARES criticize abortion as “the killing of a child” (“Chastising people for riding horses (people who clearly love their horses) while killing your unborn child?”). The woman is mental and hypocrite and I can’t express with words my disgust with her stupid text. But let’s just say that I quit meat 27 years ago and all animal products 5 years ago and my health is just fine, as is the health of all my vegan friends, including the ones who are vegan since they were in their mother’s womb.
Dear Johann, thank you so much for providing more proof for the thesis of the last two articles :D
I am interested in which evidence you have to back your claims Johann.
“Vegan since they were in their mother’s womb.”. Wow. I don’t care what consenting adults do to themselves, but to force a vegan diet on children or pets is just plain abusive. Babies can’t develop properly when they’re lacking in essential nutrients! Of course they can survive, but they’ll never reach what would’ve been their full potential. How sad. I go so far out of my way to find the best whole-foods sources of critical nutrients for my daughter and just can’t imagine deliberately withholding things she needs to thrive in the name of diet dogma.
You have no idea how many people in the world have had vegan babies and how healthy they are. You sound seriously ignorant. Feeding your pet other similar animals VS planet-based “balanced vegan diet that created by vets and animal nutritionists”, which is abusive? Do you know what veganism is about and why everyone should go vegan? This video is for you.
I’m sure some babies have done just fine … and others have been permanently damaged because their mothers did not have enough B-12 and DHA/EPA which is critical to fetal and infant development. No way I would risk that as a pregnant woman. Not a chance.
Recently a couple was trialed and convicted in Slovenia for forcing their baby with a vegan diet. Even as the child’s condition went from bad to worse, they refused to take him to a proper doctor. Why? Because they do not believe in vaccination (which is obligatory in Slovenia) and they knew they would be in trouble if the doctor found out they didn’t vaccinate the child.
The child died for the ideology of their parents. And yes, vegan diet was the cause, no medical doubt about it. This is not stupidity anymore, it is ignorance and malice.
I loved your post Cat. Stay tough and ignore the comments of people who read Facebook posts instead of books and science. They have nothing to offer you but their egos. Which noone but themselves actually wants or cares for. Quite sad, really.
Response to Jouis: Judging the vegan diet based on what ONE misinformed family did is ludicrous. For every malnourished or abused vegan child you find, I can find hundreds – probably thousands – of malnourished and abused meat-eating children. C’mon, a single anecdote is worthless. There are stupid people in every bunch.
Yes, it’s a good point, Monica. Although there are horrible stories of babies and children being damaged by a vegan diet, we surely cannot conclude from that that all babies and children are damaged. I have read a number of stories from ex-vegans however, who were convinced to abandon veganism when they saw their children were not thriving on the diet.
By the same token, there is not one scientific study I know of that demonstrates that all humans can be healthy on a vegan diet. As explained here: https://erikaawakening.com/vegan-philosophy-collapses-contradictions-hypocrisy/
Jouis,
Children have been dying for the ideology of their parents for thousands of years. It is not always about diet either. Most often it happens in wars (yes this is often a matter of the ideology of the parents or the governmental leaders who do not care in the least whether their cause is right, they just won’t change for anyone) but it also involves all the faith healing believers who won’t use the best medical knowledge God has made available or the Jehovah’s Witnesses who will not allow a blood transfusion because the Bible really says, “The soul is in the blood,” (not the life is in the blood as it is normally translated) and we have no right to another being’s soul. Strangely enough, I have met very few vegan Witnesses. Most eat meat and little store bought meat has the blood properly drained from it. There is simply no accounting for the inconsistencies in most people’s ideology.
We all of us push our personal ideology on our “innocent” children in one way or another and there is not a one of us that has a perfect and completely undamaging ideology. Let’s not get too judgmental about other people’s choices, especially when we are at the same time very busy pointing out the judgmentalism in them which they deny but is so obvious to everyone else.
MONICA
Missing the point. I was not judging veganism, I was giving an example of health issues connected with a certain food choice and of how veganism is being perceived and practiced today by some. As completely safe, even in the face of a dead child. But apparently there are some health issues – the baby died from it. You can of course say that parents didn’t know what they were doing etc. – but why is the vegan community defending the couple, saying they did nothing wrong and should be released? It is like claiming that veganism doesn’t kill people, bad vegans kill people. True – which is exactly why it is important to separate the good practices from the bad, instead of defending you own identity/choices by uncritically advocating for those that have been proven to be dangerous. Like saying, “veganism is completely safe, you have nothing to worry about” – my example above was meant to illustrate how strong this ideology can be, with parents refusing to give it up in the face of a dying child. So calm down and start using your brain.
MYRON
You reply was even worse. You have actually attempted to display a dead baby as something relative, something that we all do. “Children have been dying for thousands of years” – so why stop now, right? How is war different from parents’ dieting choice, right? How is me teaching my kids my own personal beliefs and faulty convictions any different from some parents who sacrifice their child in a bloody pagan ritual, right? Because ALL of us have ideologies and ALL ideologies are the same, right? That some take lives and some don’t makes no difference, right? Do you even realize how stupid you sound?
I am not busting inconsistencies, I am arguing against an uncritical and practically dangerous trend, promoted by egotistical (if it works for me it’ll work for you!) and narcissistic (my way is the best!) individuals that are not even responsible enough to get a complete picture of what they are preaching and sure as hell don’t understand the potential consequences of their actions.
And since you ask, yes, I believe refusing to take your kid to a doctor because of something YOU believe is murder plain and simple. You don’t own your child, you do understand that? It is not your property, it is your responsibility. And responsibility means swallowing your desires, your beliefs and your pride if necessary – and doing WHATEVER IT TAKES to get it right. Until then, I have every right to call you a bad parent. Because you obviously don’t understand responsibility – and that is what parenting is all about. Sorry, but it is that simple.
I loved this article!!!
Hi Anil, it’s great to hear from you. Thanks so much for your support.