Why the vegan philosophy fails as a “social justice movement”
Before we get started with this article demolishing the vegan philosophy, I want to apologize in advance to my vegan friends – all five of you ;) – who actually are emotionally balanced and sane. This article is not aimed at you. For whatever reason, perhaps because your body can convert nutrients better than most – all five of you do seem to be thriving on a vegan diet. Unfortunately, your emotional balance and normal brain function make you the far outlying exception in my now vast experience with vegans. I hope you will not be offended by this article.
For the 99+% of other vegans, who are clearly suffering from cognitive deficiency and emotional imbalance … and look, we’re just basing this on your own ridiculous behavior in response to my last few articles … I have a few tips before you read the rest of this article. First off, hold your fire and actually listen to what’s being said before launching into personal attacks at the author. Oh wait! You’re not going to be able to do that, because deficiencies of DHA/EPA, B12, and other nutrients have lowered your brain function and made you impulsive and irrationally angry. Right.
So here’s a hint. Before you attempt to tackle this article, it would probably best if you spend a few weeks eating fatty fish, eggs, and other animal products every day. This will help to alleviate the deficiencies of critical brain nutrients that regulate cognitive function and emotional balance. Of course, if you fail to follow this advice, and attempt to tackle this article with your emotions all in a tissy and your brain functioning on “low” … well, don’t say I didn’t tell you so. The tiny little logical leaps we take in this article … which will be obvious to most omnivores who are not nutritionally deficient … are going to feel like climbing Mt. Everest without oxygen. And then the ridiculous comments that you post here are only going to serve to prove the thesis of the article. And further undermine the vegan “movement.”
All right, now that we’ve got our disclaimers out of the way, let’s get started demolishing the vegan philosophy. I spent over a year deeply immersed in this “social justice movement.” The contradictions and hypocrisy were beginning to become clear from the very beginning. Yet, because I cared about the animals, I stuck it out. Until my health started rapidly declining on a vegan diet. Then, like so many other ex-vegans who are rational and sane, I ended the disastrous experiment.
Veganism as a “social justice movement”
According to most vegans, veganism is not a “diet.” It is a “social justice movement.” The premise of the movement is “do least harm.” The definition is:
Veganism is a way of living which seeks to exclude, as far as is possible and practicable, all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose.
Most vegans construe this to mean not eating animals, not wearing animals, and not using animals for “entertainment” (e.g., going to Sea World to see the dolphins).
We can already see in the definition of veganism where our problems begin, and it’s with this tricky little phrase: “as far as is possible and practicable.”
Ummm, yeah, who gets to define what is “possible and practicable”? The leaders of the cult? Each vegan on his high-and-mighty soapbox declaring that his personal preferences define what is “possible and practicable”? Where is your objective definition of “possible and practicable”? Already, this movement is collapsing on its own definition.
Another problem with the definition is how it applies to human welfare. Humans are animals, so by definition, veganism should exclude “all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, humans for food, clothing or any other purpose.” You will notice, however, that many vegans could not care less about human welfare generally. Except their own, of course, which brings us to our next problem.
The Logical Outcome of a Strict Definition of Veganism Is Human Suicide
Many vegans were horribly offended that I suggested that the logical outcome of veganism is human suicide. I don’t know why they were so offended. I’m simply extrapolating from their own insane arguments.
Either the definition of veganism includes human welfare, or it doesn’t. If veganism is all about protecting “non-human animals,” then human welfare cannot be a factor in the calculus. And this means that reducing harm to non-human animals as far as is “possible or practicable” would mean the end of the human race. Because you cannot “do least harm” while continuing to exist as a human. Every single thing we do is killing and exploiting animals.
To give just one banal example, most vegans just LOVE their almond milk. Not only are almonds a highly water-intensive crop (thus destructive to our environment) … but also the production of almonds results in the killing of mass numbers of honey bees:
Are Your Delicious, Healthy Almonds Killing Bees
And then many vegans, simple-minded as they are, will say “but I don’t even drink almond milk.” Doesn’t matter. A large number of “vegan” crops are industrially pollinated. Most vegans don’t eat organic food, and the pesticides used to grow their food are responsible for killing billions of bees, other insects, bats, birds, and fish. Organic food probably fares better but relies on livestock fertilizer to produce nutritious “vegan” food.
So you see, it’s not possible to be truly vegan in this world. There is actually no such thing as “vegan” food and therefore no such thing as a “vegan.” And only someone who is cognitively deficient as most vegans appear to be, could think that they are somehow “innocent” of the mass destruction of animals … just because they don’t eat the bees that they killed.
What Is Possible and Practicable?
Now see, here is where many self-righteous, “holier than thou” vegans will angrily declare that of course it’s okay for them to drink almond milk because they are not exploiting or harming animals as far as is “possible and practicable.” It doesn’t matter that vegans are killing bees and other animals by the billion in order to eat their vegan food because … they’re not eating the bees. And they are doing the “least amount of harm.”
Well, I beg to differ. If you ended your existence via suicide, you would be doing less harm. So what is your objective standard for suggesting that you are following the dictates of the philosophy as far as is “possible or practicable” if you, instead, choose to keep living? You have no objective standard. You’ve just created a totally self-serving standard of what is possible or practicable, based on your own personal preferences. And that cannot stand up to any scrutiny whatsoever.
One cow can feed a huge number of humans. How many bees were killed for one glass of almond milk? Per serving, it would not surprise me at all, if more bees were killed than cows. So how do you justify almond milk being somehow “morally superior” to a hamburger?
And of course, vegans being cognitively deficient, will make some lame ass reply here. The usual underlying but unspoken assumption being that they care less about bees than they do about cows.
Hey wait, isn’t that speciesism? Don’t all lives count the same? How then can you justify killing so many bees for almond milk, when one huge tuna or one huge cow results in only one death and provides a huge amount of food for many humans?
(Don’t worry, those vegans who failed to bone up on their fatty fish and double up on vitamin B12 supplements won’t be able to comprehend the obvious logic here. Their brains are not functioning properly.)
We could go on and on here. Deer in many areas of the world overpopulate unless they have natural non-human predators (like wolves) or human predators. If deer do overpopulate, they fall prey to starvation and disease, surely more painful ways to die than a quick hunter’s kill.
But see, for vegans it’s perfectly okay if a wolf or mountain lion kills a deer. (By the way, ever seen a cat play with its prey. If I were a deer, I’d take a hunter’s bullet over a natural non-human predator any day of the week.) Yet it’s not okay if a human hunter kills a deer.
Why not? What’s the difference?
Here, the only thing vegans can come up with is that “humans don’t need to eat animal products.” Indeed, at the end of the day, the entire vegan philosophy depends on this premise. Because when we go back to the definition of “as far as possible or practicable” … while there are many vegans who hate humans so much that they wish humans were exterminated … most vegans realize that extermination of humans cannot be justified morally under a philosophy of “do least harm.”
So everything about the vegan philosophy then hinges on the flawed premise that “all humans can thrive on a vegan diet.” Which is why you will see vegans so angrily and irrationally denying any and all evidence that undermines this premise. Which leads us to our next point …
Human Welfare and the Vegan “Social Justice Movement”
Vegans cannot have it both way. Either human welfare must be factored in to the definition of “as far as possible or practicable” … or it cannot be factored in.
If human welfare is not factored in, then your only option is mass suicide. That’s just simple logic.
Most vegans will scream in horror when faced with the logical outcome of their own philosophy … so let’s assume they will retreat to the position that human welfare should be factored in to the definition. Well, then, folks, we have a problem.
How much does human welfare factor in? Yesterday I was attacked by a vegan couple who, ironically, are pregnant. Oh, yes, here were rabid vegans attacking me for salvaging my health with animal products … while they are BRINGING ANOTHER HUMAN INTO THIS WORLD. The husband, suffering from cognitive deficiency, of course – attempted to argue that this is the difference between “giving life” and “taking life.” In other words, he on his soapbox is “giving life” to a new human. While I am “taking life” by eating meat.
Ummm, hello. First of all, I’d like to see your test results on vitamin B12 and DHA/EPA because your brain is not functioning properly, sir.
“Giving life” to a human is equivalent to taking the lives of countless animals, and I don’t care how strict a vegan your child may turn out to be. (See above, our example about the honey bees.) So how the hell can you justify bringing another human into this world to wreak further havoc on an already overly populated planet – and then turn around and attack me for salvaging my health with animal products? The hypocrisy and contradiction is almost beyond comprehension. Yet vegans just don’t get it. Their brains are not functioning properly. Never mind that the kid may come to his or her senses and choose NOT to be vegan.
So just wow. Not only is this man not taking his own life, he’s “creating” another human life that will destroy more animals. And he has the nerve to lambast me for eating fish and meat. All the while having no clue how ridiculous he sounds. Just wow.
So let’s face it. Any vegan who truly practices “as far as possible or practicable” will not procreate. Period. And don’t even try to argue that you can use abortion, either. What? Clams and mollusks are sentient beings but not your unborn child the size of a lime? Puh -leeeze.
How many vegans do you see agreeing not to procreate in order to save the animals? Umm, not very many. A few. But not many. Thus, they are not vegan.
Yet they will kick and scream and cry if you call out this hypocrisy because, of course, “as far as is possible or practicable” is entirely subjective. They “need” to have children, I would be depriving them of a fundamental human right … blah blah blah. Let the chorus of whining begin.
Sorry, folks, if you are truly vegan, you do not procreate. Period. Moreover, you don’t do much of anything. Because “as far as is possible and practicable” also means you don’t drive a car unnecessarily. You reduce your caloric intake to the absolute bare minimum needed for survival. Etc. etc. etc. You would have to eliminate all pleasure and entertainment from your life, because all of it ends up killing animals one way or another. And how many vegans do you see who actually practice this? ZERO.
A Vegan Diet Is Not Adequate for Most Humans
Now let’s get back to that key issue. We’ve already established that vegans are not en masse committing suicide, which they would have to do in order to “do least harm.” So clearly the vegan definition has to take account of human welfare.
Of course, basic human health (such as I was deprived of on a vegan diet) would have to be considered.
Which is why vegans scream and cry and attack whenever one of us ex-vegans provides evidence that NOT all humans can be healthy on a vegan diet. Because once you establish that, in truth, most humans do need to consume animal products to be healthy, the entire vegan philosophy collapses.
On my last few posts, countless vegans wrote in to claim how they are “thriving” on a vegan diet. Some of these people I’ve seen their photographs, and let me tell you, “thriving” is not a word I would use to describe the emaciated skeletons pictured. Some of these vegans expressed irrational anger and personal attack in every sentence of their comments. Obviously these folks are not thriving mentally or emotionally.
Countless vegans also wrote in to cite various “scientific” studies that claim that vegans enjoy great health and so forth. Yet we have a large and growing population of ex-vegans and ex-vegetarians who will tell you … we were were NOT thriving on a veg diet, no matter how many different ways we tried to make it work.
So what gives here? Well, it’s pretty easy to figure out, if your brain is functioning properly.
There is, as far as I know, not one single valid scientific study proving that ALL humans can thrive on a vegan diet. And here’s why.
First of all, it is well documented that nutritional deficiencies are widespread in vegan communities. For more on that, see this excellent article by Chris Kresser:
Why You Should Think Twice About A Vegetarian or Vegan Diet
But there’s another, more fundamental reason why the vegan argument that all humans can thrive on a vegan diet is invalid. And that is that, as far as I know, every study claiming better health among vegans studies only SELF-SELECTING VEGANS.
People who cannot sustain a vegan diet, either never become vegan because they know they can’t do it. Or they are like me, and abandon the diet when serious health issues arise. This means that we would not be studied as long-term vegans. Which means that any study I know of that claims better health for vegans has excluded the very evidence that would prove it’s not true.
Boom! The entire vegan philosophy that “everyone should be vegan” debunked right there.
In order to have a valid study, you would have to FORCE a randomly selected population to be vegan and stay vegan for a lengthy period of time. Nutritional deficiencies often take years to show up. Blood tests are often inaccurate because the body is cannibalizing itself to obtain nutrients (for example, sucking calcium out of bones and teeth). You could not exclude dropouts from the data, because many people would probably be dropping out when their health suffered. To get accurate data, you would literally have to FORCE all randomly selected participants to stay vegan. And such a study would be unethical. As far as I know, no such study exists.
What we do have is plenty of evidence that a vegan diet has NOT worked for many people. And that even self-selecting vegans have plenty of nutritional deficiencies. I would bet a lot of money that the vegans who claimed their “blood work is great” in the comments on these posts and my other pages … never got tested all across the board for all of the nutrients. Most standard blood testing fails to test for the wide range of nutrients that are lacking in a vegan diet.
So … lacking any valid scientific study proving that “all people can be vegan,” and seeing plenty of evidence that this premise is false … and since vegans don’t want to commit mass suicide … then we must take human health into account.
We already know that many people cannot convert ALA to EPA/DHA, that widespread supplementation is often ineffective and absolutely impractical, that some people cannot create taurine (we had a guy send in a comment that he ended up in the hospital six weeks into his vegan diet for this very reason), that some people cannot produce enough vitamin K2, and so on and so on and so on … Therefore, not all humans can thrive on a vegan diet.
And guess what, folks? Under the definition of veganism, I AM STILL VEGAN. Can you believe it? Yes, I am declining to harm animals to the extent that is “possible and practicable” for me. And yes, I get to define that standard for myself, because as vegans have demonstrated over and over again with their ridiculously hypocritical claims, being vegan is WHATEVER THEY WANT IT TO MEAN.
My body needs animal products to thrive, and my health is a relevant factor in the analysis, so I am still vegan under the definition. Wow, what a relief. Now all these raving lunatics will have to stop attacking me for not being vegan. I’m as vegan as they are!
So … you see what I mean? This vegan philosophy simply collapses under the weight of its own hypocrisy and contradictions.
We could go on and on about this, so perhaps we will write more articles :D
Always in your service,
A vegan diet is not only not adequate for most humans, but for any human. That’s why vegans need pills, to get missing nutrients. Since their diet is clearly deficient and not serving them everything they need. There is not a single vegan human existing. Only people, who pretend to be vegan aka herbivore. While deluding themself into living a lie. Everyone who wants to eat only plant based, kills himself over time. Those who refuse to take pills, even faster than those with pills. We aren’t herbivores. That’s why we cannot digest fiber and fiber is only undigestable waste in our guts. But for actual legit herbivores, it is nutrient loaded food. We clearly are not herbivores. None of us is.
Vegans cannot get all the nutrients they need from plants. That’s a simple scientific fact. Not only they cannot get B12, but other very essential nutrients are a big problem aswell:
Much like we live in a community, plant nutrients are often found associated with neighboring complexes . Calcium (Ca) in plants is primarily complexed with oxalate, phytate, fiber, lactate, fatty acids, protein, and other compounds [2,3]. Although many edible plants are high in total Ca, complexation with oxalate (forming Ca-oxalate crystals) renders it undigestible (Figure 1) [4,5,6], resulting in oxalate being considered an “antinutrient”. Soluble oxalates can also reduce absorption of minerals from other consumed foods .
Vitamin A is only found in animal foods. It’s a myth that plant foods are high in this nutrient. Instead, fruits and vegetables are high in a family of phytonutrients called carotenoids. The body must convert three of these compounds—beta-carotene, alpha-carotene, and beta-cryptoxanthin—to vitamin A. But in humans, this conversion is quite inefficient, with about 10 to 20 molecules of carotenoids needed to make one of vitamin A. In addition, 80 percent or more of natural vitamin A from animal sources is absorbed, but only three percent or less of carotenoids from plant foods are absorbed.
Western societies are notoriously deficient in omega 3s and overloaded with omega 6s . All of us need to eat more sea life or adequately supplement fish oils. Vegans falsely believe these essential fatty acids; EPA and DHA, can be converted from the plant precursor, ALA, found in various seeds. Chia and flax for example. This is simply not true as our bodies cannot convert these in efficient quantities. ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/9637947/
Vegans just live a cult lie, based on self-contradictions and logic-errors. As it is typical with cults. And they aggressively preach their cult ideology, no matter what. And stay die hard ignorant about facts contradicting it. As usual with cultists aswell.
Shocking Origins of the Vegan Diet
An additional argument on Veganism is Veganism as a religion.
Ultimately veganism is about an ethical framework within which the ´believer´ envisages their entire, but ultimately limited, Universe.
Breaking it down, yes it is about cruelty towards animals, (including humans I hope). It is about not abusing the ´rights´of the animals, to live their lives. This all sounds pretty good framework. Very plausible and such.
Here are my issue, and they are not few.
At this point, there are a few more pressing matters than the fact someone drinks a pint of milk.
Just look at the immigration issues in USA and Europe. Conflict all over the world. We are not even able to respect those simple rules towards are own race, the human race that is. Why would you then spend so much energy on protecting the rights of other races (Yes, I am a racist, but the color of your skin, in my book, does not define a race, I prefer the scientific definition of a race. ´In biological taxonomy, race is an informal rank in the taxonomic hierarchy, below the level of subspecies. It has been used as a higher rank than strain, with several strains making up one race´.) So before a Vegan sits on a high horse about not eating meat, do tell me you have your priorities straight, and have spent at least equal amount of energy in reducing the pain in the human race.
Eating meat is NOT unethical. It is only unethical if it is a direct result of YOUR OWN morality. And there is no superior morality, no matter how you dress it up. Eating meat is also not uneconomical, since economics focuses on value, and if a person decided that a kilo of meat is worth more than 10 liters of water and 10 kilos of grain, then there is a fair trade off. Is eating meat un-ecological. If it were, no meat eating species would exist today. Eating meat is NOT against mother nature, and how the Universe has decided to operate.
But my biggest issue is really the ´Holier Than Thou´ fucking attitude. No, you are not a better human because you refrain from the consumption of certain products. Just like I am not a better human from refraining to smoke or drink alcohol. They are PERSONAL choices within the Ethical Framework I CHOOSE to live my life. Yes, it is about choice, because that is what morality and ethics is all about, your choices. That you do not drink milk, is your choice not mine, that I drink milk is MY choice, not yours. I choose to drink milk since it does not infringe unto my own Ethical convictions.
I run a Bistro. The reason I offer vegan meals is because I feel that people who choose to be vegan are not being served. But I also serve lactose free food, for those whose needs are not being served. I also serve gluten free food, for those who are unable to eat gluten. I also serve seafood free food, for those that are allergic to seafood, and I serve peanut free food for those that are allergic to peanuts. This is a business decision, because I know that in the area I operate, there are no delicious alternatives, except for the one that open a few months ago.
I also have learned it is not that difficult to make Vegan food that actually tastes like food anyone can eat.
this whole article sounds like it comes from a hurt place. I bet quite a few of us vegans were or are being rude to you and that really sucks. Hope you are surrounded by cool, nice people to balance it all out.
Here’s some points I’ve made in response to your blog post..
The “possible and pracatable”definition is broad so that you can apply it in a way that fits your circumstances. If you have to incorporate animal use into your life to survive, then that’s what your veganism looks like. I think we just need to really be honest with ourselves about where we draw the line between what we do for health and what we do for the persuit of pleasure at the expense of another.
Mass suicide could be applied as a solution to a whole lot of human caused problems and could be seen as the logical conclusion to almost any world view. If there’s no humans, there’s no oppressors or oppressed. If there’s no humans, there’s no human suffering.. ect. This approach is like having a maths problem and instead of solving it, you just crunch up the paper It’s written on and throw it in the bin.
Your argument about human oppression is true, we should all (vegan and non vegans alike) be thinking about human exploitation and try avoid supporting it where we can. This being said, your argument is “because some vegans don’t care about fair and safe human working conditions, I don’t have to care about exploited animals” which doesn’t really make sense. You can be vegan and buy fair trade as well. Also, the working conditions in slaughter houses (staffed by poor, underpaid, migrant workers) are so bad that the people who work within them develop ptsd-like mental illnesses.
Unfortunately many crops require industrial bee pollination and in a world where insect populations are declining due to all kinds of pollution, this kind of overuse of bees is sadly unavoidable. We have to eat plants to live healthy lives, so avoiding all bee use is a really tricky one. Oat milk is a kinder choice in that regard. Also, you don’t have to believe a cow=a bee=a human to be vegan.. you just have to do your best to avoid animal use and suffering.
If we did have to compare the cow to the bee, we would also have to concede that the cow will likely be living on cleared forest land, where an entire eco-system will have been destroyed. She will likely continue to degrade and compress the soil in a way that it will be unlikely to ever recover. If she is not pasture fed, she will consume grains which were grown on cleared forest. Those lives lost (and potential future lives of generations of animals) in eco system collapse should be considered too.
As far as hunting goes, I think there is an argument for only eating or killing pest species. It’s a bit of a tricky one because it’s not ethical if hunters are allowing re-population of pest animals just to kill them for fun. Which is what they so often do. We have so many feral animal problems because of the releasing of pests, just to hunt them. I’m not sure about how it works where you live but it’s an issue here in Australia. I hear the re-introduction of apex predators does wonders for ecosystems all over the world.
I agree that even the most green living vegan will still be a burden on animals and the natural world in general. However, anti-natalism makes veganism look crazy and unreasonable and would stop people from even trying to live better. Also, insinuating to a expecting couple that both they and their unborn child are better off dead (even while trying to follow their own logic)is a bit harsh and extreme. it’s er.. not exactly how you get people to come around.
Last but not least, there is a cornucopia of studies which indicate the long term benefits of vegan diets. by comparison, there is very little evidence for the long term health of paleo dieters. Watch out for that Chris Kresser!
Anyway, sorry about the essay.
all the studies in the world don’t change the real life effects that many people have experienced
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I went vegetarian with my sister in my 20’s but as a construction worker onsite I found myself being hungry all the time and was losing the muscles I needed. I went back to meat. Now 30 years later my sister is still on the band wagon and frankly I hate socializing with her, especially eating meals she cooks, and if in conversation I just happen to mention something to do with meat I get dagger eyes.
Her and her husband still rant on about it and every meal takes them an hour to prepare (even breakfast) Their health is not that good either btw. I also cycle and am sick of all the arrogant skeletons that run stop signs and ride 2 abreast giving us more mellow cyclists a bad name. Veganism is an eastern religious cult in my opinion. It ticks all the boxes of a religion and like all such you are either a “believer” or you are a heretic.
yep yep I hear you
This article is awesome. I was looking for ammunition against certain vegans I encountered in my neighbourhood and instead, I found an armoury.
They were distributing flyers about a ‘Vegan Karnataka’ which encouraged citizens of the entire states to give up their ‘murderous lifestyle’ and embrace a ‘speciesm free Karnataka’ (Karnataka is a state located in Southern India). My first reaction was like: ‘what the hell have these guys been smoking, are they serious in increasing reducing the states second industrial output just so that they can feel morally superior’? Sure enough, they saw me observing them with interest and came up to me, thinking that I would be converted to their cause. After 5 minutes of their sales pitch with the all the benefits and no mention of the drawbacks, they finally asked me: ‘So are you in’?
Instead, I asked them a few questions of my own: Why are you distributing your philosophy in an upscale neighbourhood like this when you should also try your hand at the middle-income neighbourhoods as well? The answers ranged from ‘oh people from there are least bothered’ to ‘they will not understand’.I asked them ‘how they tried at least’?. No response. So it seems there is a class distinction among them as well. Surprise surprise. My next question was ‘how you figured out how to grow food in sub-zero temperatures or farm non-animal based foods without damaging the ecology?’
Before I got an answer they performed a disappearing act so fast that Harry Houdini himself would give a standing ovation from his grave. I am sure I will run into them again and when I do they will have more embarrassing questions coming their way all thanks to your article.
Stands to show that vegans can’t seem to handle the hard questions let alone the hard types of foods. But each to his own choice of lifestyles. It is when they start preaching that they are morally superior to their fellow humans, even when they aren’t any better, that really gets on my nerve.
Interesting article. In my experience, the vegan is usually that annoying idiot wearing hareem pants (male or female) with absurd dredded hair and juggling at the train station (generalisation I know, but I’m sure everyone knows what I mean). The vegans I’ve encountered have all been white, middle class and angry. Such a misguided and misinformed bunch of people that I don’t/can’t engage in conversation with them, let alone debate! I admire your stand and am pleased you ceased the ridiculous vegan behaviour (lifestyle? Pffff it’s simply obstreperous behaviour) but I’m afraid there will always be moron’s who can’t/won’t follow simple logical argument – see “religion” or “Trump”, same kind of blind faith, same kind of moron (mormon? Hahaha)! Good luck with them, can’t be arsed myself and I don’t lose a minute’s sleep thinking about them… Evolution will out for sure, but then they probably don’t agree with that concept either. Such is the way of the vegan.
Haha :) yea it’s embarrassing that I fell for it and sigh now I snooze so many people in my Feed as I can’t take the hysteria on so many issues.
Frankly, I find the whole vegan craze annoying. Thanks for righting this article. it is a reminder that there is some sanity in this world. The vegans I know are living grossly hypocritical lives thinking they are exercising some social justice when they are just being morons.
Question: why do vegans feel this need to convert everyone around them ?
Yes its a sad shame most vegans are so angry. Why do they try to preach so much. It really is so annoying
Friend at work was a great person but since getting married to a vegan wife 2 years ago he is a totally boring and comes out with such ill researched things
His only friend has become vegan after their talks, where he had many friends before
I still chat and he says he does not tell me to change as I don’t listen. I do listen but he gets all his facts wrong and I always have a back up answer as I studied all the facts for a project
Wearing a t shirt and drinking from a mug saying go vegan and vegan tea makes me laugh so much
A normal balanced diet that we have all survived on for years says it all but they don’t see it
His many friends don’t even invite him out anymore as he preaches so much about veganism
Its a shame but I tried to say but he is blind to it all and comes up with stupid non sense comments that are not true anyway
Sad shame as he was a good laugh but now it bores me and them to talk to him as the vegan debate always pops up
Yes him and his wife look like skeletons
I eat meat and I smoke and drink too much but I bet I will live a longer life than they will, even with the abuse
Hes only 30 but looks so ill even after 2 years of being vegan
Why can they not just get on with life without the preaching
He wears leather boots etc but I am saving that one for later
A lot of people become boring upon getting married. Veganism makes it worse probably.
Great article, you sound like a lawyer with all your arguments – ha! I know a couple who became vegan a year or so ago and they are completely obsessed. I think part of it might be they perhaps might have had some fertility issues as the one girl was obsessed with having babies before they got married and now I think they’ve transferred that obsession to caring for animals as their babies as all they do every day is watch vegan propaganda/animal torture videos to keep them on the vegan path and try and convert others. I truly feel sorry for them, as that is no way to live. I’m a total believer that a vegan diet can be a magical cure for some people – but it is not for everyone – you can’t put everyone into a vegan box. Definitely will be saving this article!!!
Hi Jackey, thanks for contributing to the comments. Yea it would be interesting to probe more deeply with people the needs they are actually trying to meet with this vegan strategy.
Loved the article.
Any chance of editing in some sources for the B12. I have pointed to this article a few dozen times and that is what always comes back at me. Every other website I have posted to prove that people pretending to be vegan suffer from a B12 deficiency is just shrugged off as fake. It would be nice to be able to point to something that is more deliberate.
I’m not sure I understand the question …
sigh….where to begin……
Vegan, paleo, nsng, wild diet, south beach, jenny craig….Whatever you are…DO what works for your body. that being said Erika i totally understand your frustration. I tried Vegan and at first it was great. Lost weight, had energy, lost muscle mass, lost energy, and then just could maintain. Now i lean more on a paleo diet though even that community has its Cray Cray. I don’t want to publish a book here but it seems you have a belief in God. I’m not preaching I’m just sharing my thoughts as a bible reader and how it related to eating,
If you believe Genesis account:
man and woman, ate plants. The soil being perfect as well as their bodies could live on fruits n veggies. Fast forward and God say that the animals of the earth could be eaten as food. Why? could it be that the now imperfect bodies could not live on veggies and fruit anymore? or the soil not as nutritious? I don’t know. What i know is that if the Bible is our road map thru life and spirituality then why not look at what it does say about food. Wine, milk, honey, meat, fat, fruit, grains(though i don’t eat them since grains then not same as now and my body swells up with grains) and veggies are all mentioned in the bible. Be balanced. Connect with Nature. Be reasonable and be willing to accept that we don’t live in a perfect world. We do the best we can. If you want to go in the woods and catch your own food and do your own farming i guess thats as realistic and close to the way humans are supposed to be. But thats not to realistic…anyways just my opinion without involving the science…Though i will if needed haha
Vegans I know are repulsed by anyone eating a shred of meat but perfectly okay with abortion at any stage of pregnancy. Obviously they place animals above human life.
Yes that was among many examples of hypocrisy. I only wish I had bailed on veganism as soon as I realized how hypocritical it was. Nope, I stuck around way way way too long.
Comment deleted. Does not meet our standards of “no personal attacks.” Find a non-violent way to express yourself and for goodness sakes please break it down into simpler terms. Thanks
Decent article I think you should tone down the ad hominem.
In theory I might actually agree with you. I was admittedly pretty pissed off when I wrote the article due to to the grave harm in my life of the vegan diet and feeling “snookered” by vegans. At this point though, I am convinced the tone of the article was exactly what it needed to be as it has reached a large number of people. If I had been polite and considerate, it probably wouldn’t have. Such the strange world we are all living in right now.
Wonderful article, well worth reading .
thank you :)
WHY yes WHY cannot everyone leave everyone else alone and let each one eat what they wish. i am a vegetarian (NOT vegan) but i just believe in ‘do your own thing – and let others DO THEIR OWN THING – i don’t believe anyone should be ‘pushing’ anything onto anyone. you enjoy being a vegan and i will keep enjoying being a vegetarian – and let the world be a happy place!
Hi didi, thanks for expressing that perspective. Yea I mean it sounds like you’d like to see more respect, freedom and choice.
Thing is, if it were murder of humans then we’d obviously draw a line right? and when I first joined veganism, my logic went like “well it’s the same thing right?”
But then when human health is failing on a vegan diet, it turns out it’s not the same thing.
It’s definitely made me think about moral values more generally.
The only thing that can credibly absolve the modern vegan of His/Her hypocrisy is the inherent accompanying ignorance. To get truly nutritious organic produce one must fertilize as nature has for millennia with the blood, bones and excreta of animals and plants. In this modern day and age that material is only available in sufficient quantities for purchase from the meat for food and plant for food industries. To grow flesh(green and red) one must recycle the flesh. Green only compost delivers a nicely irrigated soil but a nutritionally deficient crop yield. Animal only compost will only choke up the land with lots of nutrients but will not sufficiently irrigate, the harmony of both delivers a deliciously nutritious crop Just as nature always has. For vegans to deny that they are just as connected to the farming of animals for food as an omnivore is to be hypocritical, to be unaware of it is to be ignorant. To pontificate, to finger point and and lay blame at the feet of the omnivore is just plain stupid.
Vegans Save Yourselves!
Or at least try not to look and sound so stupid.
Hi Damien, thanks for your contribution to the post. I really enjoy how you express yourself. I wish I had not been so “stupid” as to dive into this whole thing without thinking it through holistically. It’s like I often say to people, It really is true that gravity is only a limiting belief. That said, if you have not done the SUBSTANTIAL transformation work to exempt yourself from the law of gravity (ala Christ level skills), it’s probably best not to jump out the roof of a high building. Likewise, someday we might all be breatharians. But we ain’t there yet. And in the meantime, it behooves us to act with care around our limiting beliefs. Because until we have done the real work of transforming them, they remain THE LAW.
Hey… good post. After consideration and contemplation, I have decided that veganism is not a ‘real’ thing. I wanted to be vegan for a while as it sounded like a good lifestyle to lead. I had visions of humanity healing the wounds of ecological de-forestation from a global change in diet… but then I met some committed young vegans and I really did not like them. They treated me like one of the masses who is brainwashed by meat. This hurt my ego… This is my confession.
But as I have begun to realise, good ethical arguments aside, Veganism is not natural for humans. A person cannot just become a vegan and get on with life. They need careful planning and food supplements in order to maintain their health. It is not like quitting smoking which would immediately improve your health and you would not need to do any forward planning to counteract the effects of not smoking.
Also, philosophically why do people become vegans. Religious people would practice veganism in older cultures to become closer to God or Enlightenment. Why do vegans become vegan now? It seems to be just…because… Oh there is the subject of cruelty, but life is often, cruel, unfortunately, becoming vegan does not get us off the hook.
Just wanted to get that off my chest…
Thanks yea the problem cannot be solved at the level of the body. People will have to learn some new skills if they want this solved. Fish and loaves. Thanks for adding your two cents and getting this off your chest.
Hi, Veganism is a real thing and it’s also a natural thing to do. If we do something it’s natural by definition. I am vegan because I want as little a part as possible in the suffering of animals. My advice is to see what you can do to limit the amount of suffering in the world. Vegetarianism or veganism is just one aspect and related to the welfare of animals, not humans. Don’t be put off by other people who come across as militant or obnoxious. As for your health? Sometimes we have to suffer for our convictions but I’ve never had any problems I can think of. One last tip if you change your mind – if the subject of diet comes up, just change the topic. You don’t need to talk about it – toxic subject. Good luck!
We are in fundamental disagreement that suffering and sacrifice are ever helpful strategies for the well being of anyone.
I appreciate though that your comment refrained from personal attacks.
deleted “you statements” ( pure projection)
I’ve deleted the “you statements” (which are pure projection of your own beliefs about yourself). if you’d like your comments posted here, please keep them respectful and about yourself. thank you
Here’s something you missed but could use for and updated or new post. Throughout history there has NEVER BEEN A SINGLE VEGAN TRIBE, CIVILIZATION, OR KNOW SOCIETY IN HISTORY. None competent scientist, historian, or institution have found or claimed that. Heck there I haven seen or heard of a fourth or fifth generation vegan. Veganism came out probably less than a century ago when it technically became possible. If it was possible, practical, and helpful; it would have centuries ago. People have been eating animals since the dawn of our time and even our closest relatives the chimps and bonobos will eat insects, lizards, eggs, and other primates.
Vegans are outliers to the rule. Sure the popularity of veganism is growing but often they don’t say how many ex vegans and cheating vegans are out there. Those numbers are growing too. Due to their lack of proper brain function, many program their minds to think that way and and feed their wonderful minds with propaganda and BS (bad science) to the point of brain damage. I’m going to assume that most rabid vegans might have an eating disorder like anorexia and orthorexia (unhealthy obsession with eating healthy). Nearly all vegans need to take supplements too which defeats the notion of it being a healthy diet. Why does a healthy balanced diet require you to take supplements? Supplements are an inferior substitute for food and a true balanced diet would provided everything. Veganism is very risky for kids and the number of kids dying or becoming malnourished is documented and the parents end up losing custody of them and being charged with abuse and neglect.
There are lots of healthy diets out there throughout history but I don’t recommend veganism.
Yep good points
My personal favorite argument is the intent argument, i.e when a militant vegan is told that, say, driving cars or living in society results in the deaths of animals, I have seen them respond “yes, but we’re not killing those animals intentionally, so it’s an acceptable byproduct.” If someone knows that their actions will lead to the deaths of animals, and they go through with those anyway, how are they not contributing to the deaths of those animals?
I actually agree with everything in this article (though you could have been a little less hyperbolic if you really want to reach people)
Vegans should include human concerns, and be just as fervent in their criticisms of human exploitation as for animal exploitation. It’s one of the reasons I’m very anti-capitalist (before you call me a commie, I’m not sure if communism is any better, I just know that capitalism is bad). This point alone blows away half your article.
As far as the factory pollination to produce certain vegan staples, that just means we need to have more sustainable and less exploitative farming techniques, which we can do if we really pushed for it.
I also acknowledge that a pure, un-supplemented vegan diet is unhealthy for the brain, but that’s not a good argument against ethical veganism, since we have the knowledge and technology we need to artificially supplement our diets with the needed stuff without exploiting animals. Not only that, we are ethically obligated to do so to reduce animal harm (and to remind you, I am just as concerned about human exploitation).
So, all your article did is point out some logically inconsistencies with veganism that need to be corrected, not destroy the vegan argument in it’s entirety.
Chris. . .you seem reasonable. thought i’d give something a try for the very first time ever. you say you’re anti-capitalist. capitalism is simply the sum of two things. it’s the sum of 1) freedom and 2) property rights. which of those two things are you against? i bet you are for both. that makes you for capitalism. you’re just against the corrupt twisted political concoctions we have today. both parties are guilty, although the dems are worse. cheers
No, Steve, capitalism is not the sum of two things, that’s a ludicrous over simplification and if it were the two would not be freedom and property rights but exploitation and property rights.
First off, I am not vegan. Just so you know. But, technically, there has never been, in the history of human existence, a truly balanced diet. I am good friends with some dieticians/fitness experts and they have all said that no matter what diet you have, you are going to need supplements to get all of your necessary nutrients. So claiming that veganism is wrong just because it requires supplements is invalid because the same rings true for all diets. And the main reason why veganism couldn’t have been successful in the past is because of trade. Vegans would never have been able to get all of the fruits, vegetables, nuts, lentils, etc. at any other time in history. However, it is well documented that diets before the past century were, across the board, all very unhealthy because people in certain areas just lacked certain nutrients. So, again, the same exact thing rings true for every single diet. So in essence, both of the arguments you used here are invalid. However, I will agree that not everyone should be vegan. It just doesn’t work for everyone’s body types. However, some people definitely can do it successfully. Not every diet is meant for everyone.
The vegan diet can’t be saved by supplements. I’m getting pretty tired of people who have never really tried it giving advice. Try it for real no cheating and see how shitty you feel and then come back and preach to me.
I’ve been vegan for over 10 years and I feel healthier than ever. I do know some people whose bodies did not adjust well to the change. These people still believe in a lot of the vegan philosophies, so they try their best to reduce their negative impact on the environment and on other animals, both human and non-human. No human is perfect, but I think a lot of vegans are just doing their best. Sure there may be deficits and shortcomings here and there, but I think you’ll find most people have their hearts in the right place. It can be a very challenging lifestyle and the fact that people sacrifice some amount of comfort and convenience for the cause is an amazing thing.
When I talk to vegans who go full hate against meat eaters, including telling them to “bbq their own children” for food, it makes me feel good to know I have the necessary brain power to know that is batshit crazy most likely from a vegan diet. I tell every single one of them, NONE of them would even exist if their ancestors had not eaten meat on a regular basis. So, they need to be fucking grateful that someone killed an animal for food or they wouldn’t have been born to bitch about it.
With regard to the idea that there has “Never been a single vegan…society”:
Okinawa had been *almost* 100% vegan as an indigeonous population, and the people there are often regarded as some of the longest living people in history.
The famous Adventist Health study (AHS-2) is one of the largest nutritional studies ever (at least in the realm of plant-based eating). It found life expectancy to be 10 to 14 years longer among 100% vegans (and as these people follow this diet for religious reasons, I dissagree with any assertion that they were ‘cherry-picked’ for this diet.
With regard to the ridiculous “brain function” ideas:
DHA is converted by the body from ALA (usually got from walnuts, chia, flax e.t.c in a plant-based diet) or you can simply get it from algae if you’re seriously concerned. Even then, most meat eaters don’t know how much omega-3 they actually get (you’d need to eat fish EVERY day on an omnivore diet to get the recommended amount)
With regard to all vegans having mental problems:
I don’t have statistics on this (niether do you); but it is a scientific fact that (as our intestines are far longer than any traditional omnivore’s) meat protein breaks down to putrescine and cadaverine (which are suggested to impact the brain negatively)
With regard to suppliments:
The one suppliment every vegan takes is vitamin B-12. This is because it is not made by plants OR animals. It is made by bacteria and so is only present in untreated water. As humans chlorinate our water to kill cholera e.t.c (this is a good thing!) we also remove the B-12. Omnivores get it from meat/dairy/eggs because most livestock drink untreated water or often are given suppliments themselves (so you take the same suppliments I do, it’s just it goes through an animal first).
With regard to infants:
“It is the position of the American Dietetic Association that appropriately planned vegetarian diets, including total vegetarian or vegan diets, are healthful, nutritionally adequate, and may provide health benefits in the prevention and treatment of certain diseases. Well-planned vegetarian diets are appropriate for individuals during all stages of the life cycle, including pregnancy, lactation, infancy, childhood, and adolescence, and for athletes”
With regard to “propoganda and BS(bad science)”:
The WHO (the same organization that linked smoking and cancer) is the source of much of the research on this topic, and links animal products to most cancers. If you truly belive any of these claims to be BS; I’m not a scientist, but rule 1 of science is to back up your claims with evidence, something you have not done
Feel free to challenge me on any of my claims :)
Okinawans are not even close to vegan. Diet includes meat, dairy, and seafood. There is a vast sea of difference between a diet that includes some animal products and a diet that has none. Please do not misrepresent facts here.
Your website is not letting me post my reply, claiming that it is ‘spam’. I assume this is a random technical issue. I shall reword it and post again, although I’ve had to use a VPN and a different email to post this; I hope you aren’t censoring replies or anything like that
Hi Will – Not sure what is going on with that. I do have a spam blocking program – otherwise I would be inundated with thousands of comments about … well you know … if I put those words in this comment I’ll probably get blocked too haha.
Comment deleted. Does not meet our standard of “no personal attacks.” Thanks for playing.
“DHA is converted by the body from ALA”.
Missing that little bit of info (selective ‘facts’). The human body can convert ALA to DHA and EPA, but the process is *relatively inefficient*. So, you’d have to eat a TON of walnuts to the point of being sick to get a similar amount from a true source.
Note: I am a veggie. So this is not an attack.
Another point to make with regards to the issue of vegan hypocrisy is that many (I’m not saying all), but many vegans, claim to be so on ethical grounds, refraining from the consumption of animal products, and showing disdain for those who do indulge in such carnivorous activities, yet these same people do not actually do anything to protect these animals.
They say that choosing not to eat meat saves animals, when in fact, it doesn’t. Those animals are still going to be slaughtered, and those animals are still going to be packaged, sold and consumed.
They are not doing anything to actually stop the process, or to better the process, to make it more ethical or less frequent.
You don’t see them studying degrees that will lead them into politics or economics. You don’t see them carrying out studies to construct viable alternative systems to replace these age-old practices with, ones that will be just as financially adequate. Because that is one of the real problems. The meat and dairy industries are hugely profitable and help the economy to thrive. An economy that they live in and benefit from.
I see this with a lot of hippies, they sit around talking about ‘the man’ and the problems with society, but they sit around and do nothing to actually change things.
As I say, this doesn’t apply to all, but it does apply to a lot. I am speaking from experience. I volunteered at a vegan and vegetarian arts cafe for two years. A lot of the people who came in there, who were all regulars, were exactly the type of people I am describing.
They were mostly nice, I liked a lot of the people, but I just did not agree with a lot of their values, their self-righteous delivery and inability to actually stand up and do something about the things they were griping about.
You also made an excellent point on the environmental impact of almond farming on bees, etc. This point, I think is very important when we examine the hypocrisy of particular attitudes. Referring to your own experience, you know that it is a big reality that many vegans will attack meat eaters and brand them murderers simply for buying and consuming meat. Now I don’t know anybody who eats meat who has ever killed an animal. Who has ever personally sourced, murdered and consumed, an animal. Now it may be very well and good, and they may be justified in making such statements, if not for the lack of acknowledgment of their own environmental impact and their inability to take responsibility for how their consumption has also affected others. They claim that because they are not directly murdering the bees, that it is not their fault. Yet they believe they have the right to brand meat eaters as murderers, but how can they use this argument when fundamentally, it is the same thing.
I don’t think a vegetarian arts cafe is the place to find activists. Your ‘study’ may be a little skewed.
I know many vegans who study economy and law just to further their cause… and don’t forget the thousands of protesters that can be seen from the streets around the world.
And the groups that break into slaughterhouses, rescue animals, sabotage fishing and whaling boats, block access on livestock ramps, climb barbed wire fences to rescue lab animals… its dangerous work not everyone is comfortable doing. So the best activism most people can manage is talking to meat eaters or commenting on articles like this.
Meat and dairy used to be good for the economoy, but they are far from highly profitable today. Dairy farms are barely staying afloat financially, and most animal products are heavily subsidized. It takes huge amounts of rescources to raise animals. They eat more, drink more, and produce more waste than the same population of Humans.
It’s estimated that it takes up to 8,000 gallons of water to produce a pound of beef.
The idea of not buying meat is called “boycotting”. If you don’t like something, don’t support it. Every time you buy meat, you are paying the company to kill another animal and fill that gap on the shelf.
Not buying meat means not supporting the industry.
The notion that almonds kill honeybees is incorrect, the article that was referenced stated that the pesticides used on almonds kill them.
And finally, the argument you are using is basically that the pesticides used to grow plants kill more animals than eating the one animal directly.
First of all, the animals you eat also eat plants grown with pesticides.
Second of all, killing an animal and paying someone to kill an animal is the same thing. Buying meat and saying you dont kill animals is like hiring a mercenary and saying you have never killed a Human.
Haha… your language was extremely harsh… you have something in common with these extremists. I wasn’t aware of the almond milk situation. Would you mind revealing the source where you acquired this information?
My language got very harsh during my time in the vegan community. It had very unfortunate consequences in my life and was the norm in that community. Not all vegans are like this but many are. It reflects self hatred. And shifting violence from animals to the language used with oneself and other people doesn’t solve anything. As I’ve said here ad nauseum. I’ve spent a great deal of time and still spending time shifting my self talk about the damage that was done in the vegan community. You can see from the vegan comments here how violent the community really is, on the whole. Again, demonstrating that veganism is not solving anything.
The suffragettes were violent and harsh but they helped their movement and made an important impact on the equality of women. Just like the suffragettes and the suffragists, not all vegans are harsh and violent like you make out. Alot of vegans that I am aware of go a long way to avoid coming across like this, and even prevent others from being like this too. It is a shame that this experience of yours has spoilt your perception of veganism.
As a few others have commented, I am interested in this fact you have brought up in discussion about almonds affecting bee populations. I would like to know more about this please. However you cannot simply shame vegans for this, when you are condoning honey farms etc. Same way that you cannot shame SOME vegans for not giving a damn about human rights, when by posting this on your blog YOU are condoning one of the biggest explotations of any beings rights in the history of mankind. Just food for thought.
It may not be possible to be 100% vegan by definition due to problems such as almonds affecting bees, olive oil affecting macaws, palm oil affecting orangutans.. etc etc with all other subtle animal uses that are hard to keep on top of. But the fact is, at the end of the day by not eating meat in your daily diet you are making a huge and positive impact on not only your health, but the well-being of many animals and the environment. You dont have to be 100% perfect to help make the world a better place for all.
It appears you have not actually read the article. Actually, by being vegan, I severely damaged my own health (much of which was reversible but some has not fully reversed even now). I also created other harms arising out of the inability to think clearly due to malnutrition. And one of my cats is dead in part because of that time period. So actually no, what you are stating is inaccurate. And based on the experiences of vast numbers of other ex-vegans, the vegan diet is indeed creating a great deal of harm because vegans refuse to acknowledge that it does not work for most humans. Good day.
Do you find it interesting that she didn’t give a source for her information even though she answered the other part of your question?
She linked to the source within the post. Why should she bother to answer people who can’t be bothered to read?
Yep if you can’t use Google or read the sources, I am not going to waste my time repeating myself. Thanks Tom.
“The Logical Outcome of a Strict Definition of Veganism Is Human Suicide”
This is a terrible argument. The logical outcome of human existence is suicide.
Nope, it’s a very good argument because it’s the truth. Vegans will argue that veganism is about treating all animals with the same standard of care we treat humans, but actually the way we treat humans in this world does not get anywhere close to this standard and it’s doubtful that it ever will. Our whole society is built on a cobbled-together framework that relies on child slavery, prison slavery, sweatshop labor, exploitation of poorer countries, and dozens of other atrocities, and there is no way to opt out besides pulling a Chris McCandless. You can reduce the harm but you will never eliminate it. So instead of going dogmatic on preventing the suffering we’re causing to nonhuman animals while turning a blind eye to the suffering we’re inflicting on humans, why would you not just take on a slightly less dogmatic tack and apply it across the board? Because you cannot apply the dogmatic tack across the board, I’ve tried it and it does not work, our society does not allow for it and you will go crazy. If you don’t allow for the idea that it is okay to allow some amount of harm to come to others to obtain the resources you need to live a reasonably healthy and happy life, then suicide is the only ethical choice you can make. And it’s not necessarily even bad moral logic, especially if you believe all lives are of equal value, but it does mean that if someone has gone vegan for ethical reasons, they’re either being hypocritical/arbitrary or they’ve gone full death cult. At least if you are going to be arbitrary have the guts to admit it.
“…Since I gave up meat, my body looks and feels healthier and stronger. I certainly was not getting these effortless muscle tone improvements before tapping and a non-meat diet. There are even a large number of highly successful vegan body-builders,,.”
(Erika Awakening – 17th March 2014 –
Yep that was only a couple of months in … little did I know that I was cannibalizing my own body for nutrients at that point. The longer term effects are not felt until the stored nutrients have been depleted … by that point, many vegans cannot think clearly anymore because the brain is part of what was cannibalized.
That’s why you can’t solve this at the level of the body … You will either sacrifice animals, or you will sacrifice yourself. Only higher order solutions can solve this. Veganism is a distraction and blockage to what actually needs to be done, which is to learn manifesting skills. Learn to create with your mind.
I’ve been vegan for 8 months, and am at the turning point right now. Dreaming of eggs for a bit do I finally gave in and had eggs this morning and I actually felt the brain fog lift, I feel sharper already. Will seek out fish tomorrow and will carry on with that and eggs for a bit before maybe bringing in red meat if my cravings turn that way.
Thank you for sharing your experience – it’s reaffirming knowing I’m not the only one…. hopefully I’ve caught it In time to save the damage!
Vegetarians are psychotic and idiotic. Hitler was a vegetarian. Does anybody see a connection?
I don’t find words like psychotic and idiotic to be helpful or meaningful. It’s more about all the unmet needs from the diet.
Getting ready to eat my egg salad sandwich for breakfast…
Honestly playing the Hitler card? I could equally say that as Mussolini and Stalin were meat-eaters, that somehow proves all meat eaters to be evil.
Einstein, Da Vinci, Tesla, Ghandi, Edison, and Pythagorous are just a few examples of famous vegetarians who disprove the idea that “Vegetarians are psycotic and idiotic”
I’m absolutely open to a civilized debate on the topic of veganism, but arguments like this are really not constructive.
we have no idea what those people actually ate, and for how long, or what effects they experienced.
Jeffery Dahmer liked meat as well.
Considering the things we learned about Einsteins life, I gotta say that this comment didn’t age well. He was a barely functional retard that failed even basic math, was a notorious wife beater, stole research from others while working in his patent office and spent more time playing violin than doing science.
You’re correct: they are psychotic, by the definition of that term.
Psychosis is a term used to describe any mental state where a person is incapable of a normal perception of reality and/or chain of logic; and vegans, owing to their deficiencies in DHA, B12 and several other compounds, deteriorate mentally to the point where they can’t express true rationality or see the logical end-point of the arguments they make. Their editing of reality becomes total, to the point where they simply refuse to acknowledge the science that they refuse to accept, claiming it as propaganda or biased rather than being able to admit that it shows their way of life to be utterly unhealthy and profoundly dangerous.
As to ‘idiotic’: The lack of rationality ultimately reflects itself in a lack of intellect and sense, and idiocy is the logical result. It would be more accurate to say that they are rendered idiots by the biological consequences of vegan choices, rather than that they are idiots for taking them up in the first place. They may be unwise, or deluded, or deceived by the apparent honesty of others’ statements and beliefs, or they may be idiots from the get-go. Being an idiot from the start is far from a given; though being an idiot by the end is pretty near universal.
Thank you for your post.Honestly, I am not opposed to vegans, I am really tired of having me choosing not to be one dismissed as selfishness.What particularly annoys me is the way they generalize non-vegans (sometimes excluding vegetarians,if the are lucky),all while accusing us of bullying and stereotyping.There are a lot of different non-vegans diets and many different types of animal farming,fishing and hunting, many of which are eco-friendly. And yet most pro-vegan articles pretend that the only type of farming is the modern Western factory farm and that hunting only exists as a sport for rich white sadists (not my opinion).Any issues with the production of vegan food get swiped under the carpet as “lesser harm” .The same with medical arguments: omnivorous diets often get clumped together as one “average” (usually American) diet, while the vegan scenario presented will be the ideal one,not one based in reality.I also would like to mention that as of yet, no purely vegan society has been proven to have existed.If fully vegan,healthy,sustainable life style without industrial farming and chemical industry (which we all agree is harmful to the environment) is possible, then why doesn’t any culture/ society/ tribe practice it, especially if many ancient religions (Buddhism,for example)) promote the reduction of all suffering?
I have one small criticism,however: insulting the intelligence of vegans is not a good idea.Don’t sink to the level of those you criticize. It just gives them cause to dismiss you (and so does sarcasm,irony,and any form of humour.I’m speaking from experience.)
Thank you for elaborating on your perspective. Seems to me you have more of an issue with so called” vegans” and their hypocrisy versus the principle of veganism with which you start your article. I dont want to delve too much into all the nutritional aspects that have already been discussed. However I do want to point out that the “honeybee” issue you brought up for quite a few paragraphs are not valid. Most of the deaths of honey bees are associated with pesticide usage which would go against vegan principles. Also If animals such as bees are exploited to create an almond industry successful than we should advocate better farming methods and alternatives to Almond. By the way it has been about 5 years since this issue was documented and since then a plethora of milk alternatives have entered the market which has already taken pressure off the almond farming.
Great article. Thanks for writing it!
One thing that I realized is that vegans don’t really care about the countless deaths that are necessary for them to enjoy their “vegan” meal. They are happy not eating the animal itself, but choose to ignore the millions of birds, insects, bees, rats, reptiles, and other animals that have to die for their veggies and fruits.
How come eating a portion of a big fish is morally inferior to eating lettuce and tomato salad? We all know that a massacre of different animals and species was necessary in order to have that salad there.
In a sense, it’s like vegans choose not to see the reality. They live their lives literally failing to see the forest for the trees.
The vegan movement doesn’t have much logic, so you shouldn’t waste time arguing with them. Remember what a wise man once said: “Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.”
Thanks again, and hope to see more posts like this one!
Yep and thanks for your comments. It’s nice to have a break from the haters every once in a while :)
Erika you should read some Peter Singer on Animal Rights, veganism does include a concern for all living individuals and educating oneself on how to maintain a healthy vegan diet while obtaining all of the required nutrients is important. I know more non-vegans who are nutrient deficient than vegans. Singer has been a vegan for over 40 years and his brain has not stopped working, he is an accomplished and successful philosopher and nonhuman animal ethics activist, but surely you must have some excuse for why his brain is still working correctly and other vegan’s brains are not.
There is vast genetic variation among humans. I don’t doubt that a very few humans can maintain a vegan diet without harm to themselves, but they are far between. There are also many cheating vegans who are sneaking animal products behind the scenes. Even a little animal product is vastly different from pure veganism.
Nobody is going to solve this problem with the mind that created. I will say it for the 500th time. Fish and loaves. Learn how to manifest with your mind. Nothing else can solve this. Take care.
I stumbled across this. I couldn’t get past the first few paragraphs because you wreaked with arrogance and insult which kind of made sense when i read your qualifications. Thank god you aren’t in the Medical Industry as you would be worse, which is hard to fathom being any worse, but anyway. I am not surprised in the least that Vegans had a go at you.
You said above in a reply i quickly noticed “a vegan diet was killing me.”
I have been in this Industry a long time with 25 years of intense training and research, and full time all these years, and currently run a health retreat dealing with a wide range of specialties. My initial background is human movement and still involved, and i perform internationally even at 50.
“The Vegan diet was killing me” is an exaggeration and lie. I have never in my life seen anyone on the brink of death in the western world on any eating plan except extreme dieting, both in excess ( obesity) and deficiency of ( anorexia). For whatever reason, you have turned to hate vegans and the vegan way of life. I feel sad for you that you have such hatred. Most of all, a correctly eaten Vegan diet is absolutely sufficient in all nutritional requirements, but you don’t believe so. You don’t know facts and most of all distanced from reality.
I have seen loads of Vegans myself ( along with everyone else of course)and i have never experienced such bullshit that you say about them being so unhealthy.
Happy to challenge you on this any day you like. Lets go to a shopping centre to find the first 100 vegans and then the first 100 non vegans and do a thorough medical, fitness and health comparison. I have complete 100% confidence that the vegans will come up far healthier than the non vegans. Why? Because the 100 vegans will have a greater percentage( not all, just a greater percentage so don’t get your knickers in a twist) who understand nutrition better, they prepare food better, the environment, understand about process food better and much more intelligence associated with human health.
So, i am not sure where you get this idea that vegans are dumb when all your meat eating mates around you have so much disease the health care system is bursting at the seams. Or is this all normal and healthy for you?- the skyrocketing rates of cancer, childhood dis- eases, obesity, alzheimers……..on and on it goes.
Most of all, do yourself a favour. Research the longest and healthiest people on the planet if you dare – unfortunately you won’t like what you find. I will give you a hint – it’s not people who eat meat every day!
The rate of dis-ease has nothing to do with eating meat. The Chinese eat meat and refer to cancer as a Western people’s dis-ease. The rates of dis-ease, however, do have absolutely everything to do with FEAR … and Fear is the basis of the vegan philosophy.
You made an execellent point here that i think you forget to write in your article: vegans ignores the world´s multiculturialism.I once had a strong fight with a vegan guy who said he knows more about rain forest preservation (a guy living in USA) than me,who lives in one (Rio de Janeiro,the city in a rain forest called Mata Atlantica).Also,we have native culture here who preserve nature and eat meat: indigenous,caissara( fisherman traditional villages),kilombos,as well as many other countries around the globe.Veganism is abusive and highly disrespectfull with other cultures
I recently decided to reintroduce fish and eggs back into my diet after eating a plant based diet for 4 years. I was vegetarian for 6 months, but I decided to go vegan after watching the documentary Earthlings. I also decided to switch to completely cruelty-free/vegan beauty products, and I quit birth control. My skin went crazy. I had the worse acne of my life at age 20. But, I was a junk food vegan so I did not really blame my skin for breaking out.
Fast forward two years later, I was starting graduate school in a new city and I decided that it was time to get healthy and be a “real” vegan. I started cooking a lot more, and working out. I finally lost that freshman fifteen, but my skin was still gross. I tried a variety of cleansers and homeopathic remedies (honey, charcoal and african black soap, etc..), but nothing worked. I hated going out in public.
About a year ago, I compromised my veganism by reintroducing non-vegan beauty products back into my regime in an atempt to heal my acne riddled skin. It helped, sort of. My next step was to examine my diet and see if something I was eating was triggering my acne. I tried every variation of the plant diet to figure this out. I tried soy-free, gluten-free, oil-free, caffeine-free, grain-free, legume-free. I tried low-card, high fat and low-fat, high carb. I tried raw veganism, paleo-vegan. I tried adding different supplements and probiotics. I even tried cutting out all processed foods, I only ate what I cooked myself.
I tried everything. I felt tired, hungry, and ugly. And, I still had acne.
One night I was reflecting on my life and diet, trying to think of a time when I felt good about myself. The time I felt happiest was when I was eating a balanced diet of fruits, veggies, grains, and…meat (fish and chicken to be exact). So, I had a choice to make. I could continue to be vegan, but have acne. Or, I could try incorporating meat and animal by-products back into my diet to see if these foods could save my skin. So far, my acne has improved immensely.
I am not trying to dismiss the vegan diet or those who prescribe to it. Maybe there is some magical formula I didn’t try to clear up my acne. But, that requires more time, energy, and MONEY that I don’t have. I cannot afford a dermatologist, let alone a nutritionist.
Anyway, I just wanted to convey the reason why I stoppped being vegan because it is very different from the other ex-vegan blogs I’ve been reading. I also wanted to acknowledge that there is wealth and privilege involved if you want to be eat the “proper” vegan diet.
Yep, I hear you.
You might want to read this:
Ok, we’ve established you don’t care about raping 11month old female sentient beings to get them pregnant and producing your supply and demand before they’re 2 years old. I get it, your tough n kicking puppies and justifying continually raping and taking babies away is no big deal. Ok…lawyer articulate anything your way is your comfort zone narsasism you wear proudly, as required in your cut-throat field. But this isn’t court, there is 10000 times more raging pregnant hormones of puss filled estrogen, antibiotics and stress/fear depression flowing through your veins and mouth, Everytime you go for that 70% badfat cheese, yogurt, milk, than in plant estrogens. There are many world class athletes and healthy folks rocking vegan gains. Your basing your tit-for-tat of same buildings, BUT…yours is on a rotten foundation. You don’t acknowledge the damage roting your innards you don’t get on blood test results or x-rays. This damage is preventing your natural body from it’s deserved temple status. Just because an Apple has vitamins doesn’t mean it won’t rot your teeth if you don’t brush. So get your nutrients without the fleshy death rot raped estrogen drug filled industrial Earth smasher…and you’ll be awakened 4realz. FACT. Boom, done.
There is no world. You made it up with your mind. All food is causeless, a hallucination just like everything else. You can pretend to play the ego’s game, but all you can do is pretend. Your sinlessness is guaranteed by God. And the sooner you clean up your thinking to see all animals untouched and all food manifested out of thin air as Jesus did, the sooner you’ll find peace.
I guess we’re not in Kansas anymore, Toto!
This post is unintelligible.
seems to be intelligible to the 700+ commentators but to each their own
Truly, I could not get past that first sentence!
If someone uses the term “vegan propaganda” or “religion”, then that person was never vegan, and as she even mentioned, “no matter how little sense it made” that person never knew the meaning of it. That person was just plant based. 25 suplements over the course of a few months ?? Allergy to fruits and veggies ? “Literally nothing to eat” ? This way too dramatized and far from the truth. It’s impossible, allergy to every food, but 25 suplements had absolutely no effect ? First of all nobody ever needs to take 25 suplements when eating vegan, that is just absurd. Let’s not forget that animals are fed suplements. If you take suplements, you will for sure only need one. B12, which is present in farmed animals’ bodies due to.. suplements. Because they cannot get it other way from eating directly from the soil as they would naturally do, because they are kept inside cages in cruel conditions by human greed. Any other nutrient you can get from eating vegan. Secondly, there is no such thing as a “dogmatic philosophy” when talking about veganism. It is just realizing that exploiting animals is wrong and unnecessary, and that they have to be left alone. That’s it. “Body screaming out for help”.. what about the tortured and murdered beings screaming out for help, whose bodies are truly suffering things like amputations, and who ultimately lose their lifes, because they are considered comodities. Like the black people were. Slavery has never ended, the victims have just been replaced. That person totally got the message wrong, as if that was intended, because I highly doubt she would have encountered vegans promoting veganism as a religion, dogmatic philosophy, or talking about it like trying to sell something. Ethical vegans, which are different from plant based people, are truly compassionate people, they understand slavery is wrong, killing is wrong, because those are basic human moral values, and they realize their actions were not aligned with those values. That’s what it’s about. No vegan will ever act as if promoting a religion, or dogma, or anything else. We are just informing people about how we’ve been raised to believe we need to love some animals, and kill others, view them as nothing, about speciesism, which is just like racism and sexism. Thirdly, “to get certified humane eggs”, that is just something a vegan would never say. This is where you know she is definitely lying. Because if she was vegan, she would have known there is no such thing as humane, free range etc eggs. Since she never knew about that in all the time being a “compassionate vegan”, as she claims, this shows how badly she informed herself upon writing the article to defend the slavery. Here is why this is another lie that the eggs industry is using to fool people : no matter where the egg production facility is, what its size is (large farm or backyard operation), and no matter what the “visible to the public” conditions are, the egg laying hens are obtained from the same hatcheries that kill the male baby chicks. If the “free-range” farm hatches its own chicks, two important questions still remain. What happens to ALL of the male chicks not just few, but ALL of them? And what happens to the hens when they are no longer laying enough eggs for this facility to be profitable? If the spent hens and ALL of the roosters were allowed to live out their lives until they died a natural death chickens can live well over a decade – then that farm would soon have thousands of “spent” hens and roosters to care for. Obviously, the lifelong care of all of those birds, at all stages of a natural life span, would cut severely into any profits made by selling the eggs of younger hens. Hens in the wild lay just 20 eggs per year but modern farms with high protein feed and near-constant lighting push them to lay closer to 500 eggs annually. Their exhausted bodies are then discarded within months, routinely sent to slaughter having lived less than one tenth of their natural lifespan. And that’s a long life compared to the male chicks. They are financially worthless to egg farmers and therefore killed within hours of their birth. On a daily basis unimaginable numbers get unceremoniously tossed into a machine and ground up alive, or gassed by carbon dioxide, or simply dumped in a bin bag and left to suffocate. That is why she was never vegan. If she was, she would have never claimed to buy “certified humane eggs”. Then we have “thousands of dollars invested, only getting worse”. This is literally impossible, again, no one ever needs 25 suplements, and fruits and veggies are the cheapest. Meat, dairy and eggs on the other hand, ar the most expensive. And unhealthy, causing diabetes, osteoporosis, cancer etc, because we are not meant to eat animal protein, like lions, does one ever see a lion being calcium deficient ? No, because his body is able to consume meat, which is acid, compared to the human body, which loses calcium in order to fight the acidity. Basic knowledge available to anyone. Eating honey, riding horses, are again part of animal exploitation. Bees are kept in artificial hives, where the qween has her wings cut so that she can’t fly way, because the working bees will follow her. Honey is bees’ food for the winter, regurgitated by them, stolen by humans, replaced with cheap sugar, which messes up with their bodies. Horses are not meant to be ridden, it’s again a commodity, they do get back, legs and neck pain, it’s also an speciesistic act, to ride another being’s back for fun and money, then when it’s not strong enough, gets slaughtered, as it happens in horse races. People can simply show love, caring, and respect for horses not by hoping on their backs, but by being with them. They are bred in the modern society anyway, while they should be free in the wild, as nature intended, where they can run freely whenever they want. Like zebras and other animals like them do. “Non-organic, pesticide-laden food that kills billions of birds, insects, fish, and other creatures every year?” This again is trying to turn the heads away from the real problem. Willingly murdering 60 billion land animals, 90 billion marine animals by humans, by choice, for no moral justification, just for money, taste, tradition amd culture. When you are doing that, you can’t point out the accidentally, UNINTENTIONALLY killed bugs, mice and other field creatures in harvesting food. No one says that is not a problem, it is, but people pointing that out are missing the point, they can do something right now to stop and even prevent the animal holocaust taking place right now, by choosing not to support their deaths anymore. Also the definiton of veganism itself is “Veganism is a way of living which seeks to exclude, as far as is possible and practicable, all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose”. By “as far as possible”, we understand that you have to do whatever in your power to avoid animal exploitation. And it begins with what you choose to buy, pieces of bodies, or real food that you can even grow yourself, or buy locally, that way you make sure no field animal died. There would be more to say, but this basically wraps up why the article is a misleading lie, wrote by someone who has never been vegan. A failed attempt of the meat, dairy and eggs industry to stay alive. Ciao ;)
This comment was too long for me to read so I’ll respond to your first few sentences. It’s entirely possible because making this illusory world “real” and attempting to navigate through it, getting smaller and smaller as you do so … is a recipe for exactly the experience I had. Food is causeless. Your sinlessness is guaranteed by God. Start doing the inner work.
Maybe you will think about going on a whole food plant based diet so that your carotids and cranial arteries clear enough to restore your cognitive function and attention span.
Since you were so arrogant and insulting, i am returning the favor.
My name is also Erika, but i actually know what i am talking about and have graduate degrees in two hard sciences.
“…but i actually know what i am talking about and have graduate degrees in two hard sciences.”
Appeal to oneself as an authority is still an appeal to authority. Logical fallacies abound in veganland. *sigh*
So that is not propaganda… “we are just trying to inform”. Man, stop with this non-sense. “If you were vegan you’d never write such lying article” so we need to hallucinate like you in order to see things?! I dare you, start this propaganda in our own country and you’ll be filled for expulsion from the society, you simply cannot afford to annoy our fellow romanians or harass us.
Hello Miss Erika.
What a great article. I thought I was the only realist alive.
You sound like the most true educated person I have ever seen.
Thank you so much.
Are you vegans going to make a cemetery for all the animal that can not be eaten anymore due to the anthropomorphic projection of suffering? So a cemetery for flies too? Or for the rabbits that if left to themselves would completely cover the planet hearth in about 8 generations? Not a case that nobody who studies population ecology would ever consider meat eating as a problem for the planet, animal farming yes it is, a big one, together with a lot of other things included all the dams that destroy wetlands and rivers and the base of biodiversity (amphibians are 1000 times more important than your beloved cows for the planet) in order to cultivate tropical fruits etc you want to eat all year long instead of killing a sheep that was grazing on a backyard, whose footprint is not zero, is even positive? This is not love for the animals or the planet, this is guilt to be alive and eating disorder. You know who is the biggest protector of fauna? Those who depend on them to survive, small fishers, shepherds who would die without animal food and are the first victims of industrialized farming and fishing. But vegans prefer to have this cartoon idea of Bambi and pretty animals to save which has nothing to do with the real problem.
“planet Earth” of course, I did not review my writing. Also want to add that some anger apart due to the health issues I started to face after believing the vegan propaganda for health I still think we all have to resolve the animal farming issue, together and out of any ideology, and it is possible when we chose not to eat animals from farming, and those who can sustain it maybe even not eating any and us who can’t by choosing local traditional ones, that occupy a very important niche from suburban parks (even here in Rome we have hundreds of local shepherds allowed in public parks) up to the mountain grasslands that are also home for free ranging cows, sheep, goats and horses. And of course by eating the less possible of them without compromising own health. So is local sustainable animal production: you can have meat only when it is available and on pre-request not as packages in the supermarket that are trashed if not bought. So it was for past generations, meat was eaten in special occasion…but it was eaten and celebrated. This is rational thinking and behavior, traditions have a factual reason to exist. Hope one day we’ll see such an argument in vegan sites too.
It’s an interesting set of articles to read. I don’t know you, but you seem intelligent and I can see the how your law background influences a lot of your arguments in this article that drill into the meaning of words, perhaps too deep in my opinion (but again this is just my opinion). I agree with you that there are many radicals, morons, extremists, holier-than-though as well as smart kindhearted people that are vegans (hey you managed to find 5 of them), but I would classify this as generally true with any large group of people. My uneducated opinion (uneducated because I don’t know you and don’t pretend to understand you based on 2 articles) of your vegan and non vegan experiences are you were perhaps misguided about what veganism is about (or in my opinion what it should be about). I don’t believe it is about being right, or about hate, or extremism, or not eating animals, but it is about compassion. Compassion for yourself and compassion for others (humans, animals, etc.). I personally love the definition of veganism and the fact that it is open to interpretation (not something I imagine many lawyers would like, or maybe they would depending on which side of the argument they were on :) ). If your body needs animal products to survive then by all means you should use them, but I would encourage you to still stray away from other products that have a direct linkage to cruelty (whether it be humans or animals), when possible. Which is what I think your article misses as it seems you went from one extreme to another (an outspoken angry vegan to an angry outspoken self-proclaimed ex-vegan). I would encourage you to rethink your approach and rethink your definition of veganism, and I would love to see a new article from you approaching veganism from a different perspective, as I think people like you, who have experienced what you have, can really make a change for the better. I would love to read an article around the concept of “I am vegan and yeah I eat meat”, which talks about your diet/health problems, the reason you need to eat some animal products, but still also highlight your fight and effort for compassion towards animals/humans in other areas. There is no, or at least there shouldn’t be a magical vegan line that has been drawn in the sand and that you have to be on one side or the other. It’s about compassion. As a vegan (or non-vegan) I don’t believe your goal should be to show off how great you are or how dumb some other group is, but rather you should be honest with yourself, and always striving to be better than the day before. Again just my thoughts
Thanks for your thoughts. If you try to solve this problem at the level of the body, there will always be contradiction and compromise. It will never be solved. Having an intention of compassion is fine, but when the fundamental belief system is based in ego consciousness, there will be a conflict between compassion for self and compassion for animals.
Veganism is not solving anything that needs to get solved, because it doesn’t solve that fundamental conflict. Only solving the problem at the level of mind (e.g., Christ manifesting fish and loaves out of thin air so there is no sacrifice) is going to solve anything. That is why I am no longer focused in any way shape or form on restricting what I eat. The problem can never, ever be solved with a diet. I am focused instead of healing my belief system (e.g., the false beliefs that food “comes from” someone who had to sacrifice).
When the rest of the world makes the commitment to solving this at the level of the mind, then we can get somewhere. Until then I will do what I can.
When you stated that almond milk kills more living beings than regular milk, I was a bit dubious about that. Have you calculated the amount of crops needed to feed large cows? There are a lot of bees being poisoned by pesticides but the majority of crops are being fed to animals. Animals that we use later on for milk or meat. Factoring in the amount of resources to raise pig, chickens and cows should not be ignored when we are talking about reducing suffering here. And I am not vegan, but I have greatly reduced my meat consumption. If I do buy meat, I get it from farms that treat their animals well while still alive.
You will never solve this problem at the level it was created. Never.
I really loved this article and I would like to include it in an upcoming blog about former vegans of which I am one. It is going to be centred around the ongoing attacks ethical, Regenerative farmers in my community are experiencing from vegan mobs at an alarmingly increasing rate. Thank you Erika
Peace, love, light and harmony to all.
Now, let’s feast on the dead bodies of once peaceful, loving sentient beings who didn’t want to die, and create disharmony with nature and within our highest spiritual selves.
Said no true spiritually awake person ever.
It’s been some time since this artical was written and lots of evidence proving humans are 100% herbivores, built like other herbivores. We do not lust for blood. We do not want to eat a dog or squirel raw when we are hungry like true meat eaters. But when we see a ripe fruit, hell yes! True meat eaters don’t only eat chicken, pig, cow, and fish.
We have been deeply indoctrinated and disconnected but we must reconnect with our inner child who had compassion to all beings.
According to the blood type myth, as an O type I should be keeping animals. I have been vegan for 5 years, eating high vibrational foods and vibing high.
you mean the peaceful animals that regularly kill and eat each other?
Animals rape quite frequently too. Roosters will rape hens to death. There is zero innocent about animals. Treat your food animals kindly, give them good natural lives, kill them swiftly and with reverence. Feed your Omnivore body optimally.
Whysodense, Exactly, there seems to be a popular misunderstanding that nature and wild animals are peaceful vegans. Maybe because so many modern humans only experience nature while having a quite moment in a park? Or a trail from which they rarely see packs of wolves taking down prey or raptors capturing small creatures and eating them alive? Most carnivours are brutal. Humans may have a unique ability to use tools to kill our prey quickly, and we have a great deal of morality involved in the idea of causing suffering.
So much so that the vegan movement would rather be in complete denial about it’s contribution to suffering than actually think about it or how to change their practices.
Nicely put sharron
If you think humans don’t crave meat, you should see how vegans visiting my house have behaved when I am cooking something truely nutritious such as liver.
Squirrels will eat birds’ eggs and hatchlings.
“Humans are 100% herbivore”? Where do you get this drivel from? Cows are herbivores, you will never see a cow sustaining itself on meat. Lions are carnivores, you will never see a lion sustaining itself on plants. If humans are 100% herbivore it wold be reflected in the natural world. Human vegan cultures would predominate. In FACT the opposite is true. There are no naturally occurring human vegan cultures anywhere on the planet. Have we humans been doing it wrong for the last several million years?
It’s interesting to hear about others who felt worse on the vegan diet. 25 years ago I went vegan for nearly a year. I was skin and bones, didn’t feel well at all, no matter which vegan foods I tried. It was a miserable year. I added cheese and fish back to my diet and have had great health since then. Humans lived fine on a meat diet for hundreds of thousands of years. Only in the last century have experienced a massive rise in chronic diseases. We need to be looking for the real source of these diseases, such as the massive increases in sugar consumption, the genetic modifications of grains, pesticides/herbicides, polluted water/air, and chemical additives to processed meats.
By the way, I enjoyed the clever vegan insults.
The quote “You’re not going to be able to do that, because deficiencies of DHA/EPA, B12, and other nutrients have lowered your brain function and made you impulsive and irrationally angry.” is nothing but an attempt to annoy readers and who will then respond in kind. Of course if they do respond like that then you will make some claim about vegans in general. Maybe you are the problem?
Anyway, if you think that a vegan diet is not nutritionally adequate and have evidence for this claim, maybe you should contact the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics.
I don’t give my power away to academies. I do listen to my body. Except when I was vegan, I overrode what my body was clearly telling me. I deeply regret that choice. Peace.
Can we talk about the difference between vegan and plant-based for a minute here?
I’m just wondering if you can explain to the readers the difference. If you’re not sure, I’d be more than happy to assist you.
The simple fact that you went from “vegan” back to carnist tells us that you were never vegan to begin with.
As more and more evidence supports an opposing view to yours, it’s a shame that your struggles with a plant-based diet gave in to advertisement propaganda and the only excuses to give up on acknowledging the injustice that defenseless animals face every day, not to mention the environmental burden it puts on our planet. I’m sure you’re a denier of magnificent proportions as you suggest that you’re a Harvard graduate which is blasphemous to me upon reading the filth within this article. At the very least, you should be tried for the slanderous ideas you’ve written and I haven’t even gotten through the first two paragraphs. I’m actually embarrassed for you.
I’ll continue once I finish. Please excuse me. I need a tissue to clear these tears of laughter! :)
They are actually meaningless words used by people who wish to imprison themselves ever more deeply in a world of illusions. There is no world.
I agree with Tom.
Don’t make it “about me” if you want your comment published here. Enough said.
Hey thank you for writing this. I’m an ex-vegan of 6 years (my partner was vegan for 13 years) and it is like NIGHT AND DAY how much our quality of life has improved. I found out today that one of the vegan activists where i live committed suicide (and he is a utilitarian). And it really bothers me that no one in the vegan community is going to recognize the connection. I actually have a smoldering hatred for veganism now and wouldn’t bother to engage on the topic at all outside of the tragedy of this person’s suicide. I truly resent the propaganda that manipulates the consciences of people who want to dio the right thing. And the deterioration in quality of life happens so gradually it’s imperceptible. But i am grateful that I’m free of that insidious mindset and that there are former vegans like yourself who continue to debate the issues, as my parter and i are ironically more life affirming than we ever were as vegans, we are happier, we can handle stress more easily, we sleep so much better and think more clearly and have sustained energy throughout the day and overall complete transformation in well being (Weston Price style) that the last thing we care to do is to keep arguing with vegan tunnel visionaries! But it’s info and testimonies from people like us that show others travelling down that dark path that there are others who have escaped and realized how misguided they were! intelligent testimonies from former vegans was instrumental in shifting my narrow paradigm (so much narrower than i ever realized). ♡
Hey thank you for writing this. I’m an ex-vegan of 6 years (my partner was vegan for 13 years) and it is like NIGHT AND DAY how much our quality of life has improved. I found out today that one of the vegan activists where I live committed suicide (and he is a utilitarian). And it really bothers me that no one in the vegan community is going to recognize the connection. I actually have a smoldering hatred for veganism now and wouldn’t bother to engage on the topic at all outside of the tragedy of this person’s suicide. I truly resent the propaganda that manipulates the consciences of people who want to do the right thing. And the deterioration in quality of life happens so gradually it’s imperceptible. But i am grateful that I’m free of that insidious mindset and that there are former vegans like yourself who continue to debate the issues, as my parter and i are ironically more life affirming than we ever were as vegans, we are happier, we can handle stress more easily, we sleep so much better and think more clearly and have sustained energy throughout the day and overall complete transformation in well being (Weston Price style) that the last thing we care to do is to keep arguing with vegan tunnel visionaries! But it’s info and testimonies from people like us that show others travelling down that dark path that there are others who have escaped and realized how misguided they were! intelligent testimonies from former vegans were instrumental in shifting my ever narrowing paradigm (so much narrower than i ever realized). ♡
I’m totally with you. I can barely even talk about it at this point, and I keep this post up so people will be warned of the perils.
If veganism were the right path, it would not be a path of so much anger and hatred and judgment. So it’s very clearly not the right path.
Jesus manifested fish and loaves. Seems to me that’s the path.
It is about you.. You are insulting, egotistical and full of hate.
Actually, I am a divine and perfect Child of God. I am Love. And no illusion in this world can touch my sinlessness. My sinlessness is guaranteed by God. Good day.
Just a few quick thoughts for you Erika. But first, while I disagree with you, I appreciate your perspective. I have been vegan for three years and vegetarian for a few years before that. I think it is obvious that dietary choices/restrictions cannot be universal as each person has their own nutritional/physical demands. I think most vegans would understand that, but that brings me to one of my points. I think you paint vegans with too broad a stroke. People have differing motivations and beliefs. Also, with respect to the malnutrition thing, I personally have found it easy to use B12 and other supplements to adequately meet my nutritional needs, and have been very healthy as a vegan. That is not to say that all vegans are healthy, just that I disagree with the presumption in your article that it is impossible or unlikely for certain people to be healthy on a vegan diet. Again, I am not advocating it for all individuals, just saying that many people can do it. Next, I think the biggest flaw in your argumentation is the idea that individuals have to be perfect in their moral beliefs. It is not a contradiction to admit anything less than perfection. While I can accept, arguendo, your definition of veganism, undoubtedly I do not meet that standard. I don’t see that as a contradiction, though. Reducing animal suffering is still a moral good, even if it is not completely eliminated as a consequence of my existence. I think it can be summarized in a noncontroversial idea: less suffering is better than more suffering. Sure no suffering would be ideal, but that is impossible. Still, no contradiction. The contradiction would be if veganism caused more suffering than nonveganism. That is a whole other evidentiary debate not worth going into right now. Just to add another thought on that point, I think you disregard the effect a vegan diet can (but not always) have on mitigating climate change. In general, animal products have a larger carbon footprint. Anyway, as a last point, I just want to reference one of my pet peeves. Vegans often have a reputation of being preachy/annoying. Some might be, but there are all types of annoying people. In my personal experience, I find myself much more on the defensive than offensive when it comes to veganism. Usually, when I talk about it, it is in response to arguments like the ones you have presented. Vegans are often labeled as self-righteous/overzealous, but honestly, I think that people have such a visceral reaction to vegans because they don’t like having moral imperfections pointed out to them, which is an understandable sentiment. But just keep in mind, the anger that comes through in your writing only serves to undermine your point as someone who cuts through the bullshit. You criticize vegans for malnutrition leading to improper cognitive function, but you are letting your emotions cloud your rational/analytical skills. If you really did go to Harvard Law, I think you would have likely noticed and realized most of what I had to say anyway, and either chose to ignore it or strawman your hypothetical interlocutor. Anyway, sorry for the long comment, and I hope your apparently strong feelings on the issue do not preclude an open mind when it comes to rational debate!
Well said, Ralph.
I am sorry but an diet where you have to rely on supplements for survival is not a diet period !!!
People coud not even survive on veganism 200 years ago !! Ther was No supplements !! Thats all processed! How healthy can that be??
Modern omnivore diets rely on supplementation as well. Commercially-farmed animals are given B12 supplements, milk is fortified with vitamin D, and iodine is added to salt.
another vegan who could not refrain from personal attack and name calling
You claim that most vegans eat nonorganic food which kills bugs/bees making it impossible to be vegan but your entire beginning of this article is attacking the definition of veganism. If being vegan means minimizing the amount of harm done to animals, eating a plant based diet, organic or not, is going to be better for bugs and insects despite this ridiculous statement you made. Animals that are killed for food require chemicals, food, and water to grow. A nonvegan diet requires two species to be fed assuming nonvegans eat things besides meat. More than twice the amount of water is needed to grow feed for factory farmed animals, more land is needed as well. This also means more pests will be killed because guess what? The food grown to feed cows, pigs, sheeps, and so on will result in the death of even MORE bugs and insects. If I could reduce the amount of insect deaths, trust me I would. And I do on my vegan diet. The fact that this response to you would just come off as angry and illogical to you is due to your own ignorance sorry to say. And most true vegans I have experienced define being vegan as reducing the amount of harm to all sentient beings, but it is implying those who have no voice. Animals are exploited in the largest numbers on the planet, moreso than any other living being. Have you ever heard of utilitarianism? That is one of the core values I have personally. Me being vegan means not polluting your planet. It means standing up for the rights of your dogs and cats. It means not giving my money to cow farms so more greenhouse gases are released. It is just ironic how you totally contradict yourself here. Arguing how the definition of being vegan is totally impossible but trying to bring up the typical and wrong bug death argument right after. You could not be more uneducated so sorry you experience any sort of shock when an educated person has any sort of response to you.
“Two people have been living in you all of your life. One is the ego, garrulous, demanding, hysterical, calculating; the other is the hidden spiritual being, whose still voice of wisdom you have only rarely heard or attended to.” [Sogyal Rinpoche in The Tibetan Book of Living and Dying.]
Perhaps there is a little vegan and non vegan in all of us. Perhaps we are fighting with the mirror?
“The voice that speaks with truth, wisdom and clarity is the one that remains silent.” – Jo Eden Law
Perhaps … and perhaps it is counterproductive to attempt to pretend that the primal self does not exist … because it does.
Nicely put jo Eden
There are plenty of legitimate studies against a vegan diet (in relation to health & environmental impact) and a whole lot for a vegan diet (again in relation to health & impact). The world health organisation says that a well planned vegan diet is safe for all stages of life – though obviously this may not apply to everyone. There are two sides to the story, both with decent evidence and arguments. You have not chosen to present any of those logcial arguments here. Or anything supported by good evidence. You’ve just had a big illogical angry rant about a diet / lifestyle that you say makes people stupid and illogical, when the only one acting illogical is you. Anyone who blatantly attacks a group of people who are attempting to do better, to treat our earth and the living, breathing, feeling animals on it better, is just ridiculous. Regardless of whether you agree with the logic or not, surely you can at least respect any person/ group of people that is trying to do better, trying to be more compassionate. Whether we’re talking about vegans, activists, people who are trying to fight for any kind of positive cause… why would you attack those people and argue against them? Their veganism is not affecting you, except perhaps for some angry words from a few vegans, which if this is the way you talk about veganism to other vegans you have probably brought those angry words upon yourself at least some of the time. So some vegans have said some unkind things to you? Guess what, that’s not specific to vegans. Thats just people. People suck. People are mean and people are often stupid. Don’t attempt to bring down / attack a good cause just because you have had a bad experience with the people / diet etc. That’s just bitter and ridiculous and frankly it must be exhausting for you to have so much hate and obviously guilt. Do what you want. Just don’t go attacking people who are trying to do better whilst whining about the fact that people have attacked you for not being vegan. You are clearly no better than them and not proving your point at all by illogically attacking them.
This article is not intended as a scientific study. It is a sharing of personal experience and a reflection on reading a large number of other people’s personal experience. Considering how dangerous the vegan diet is for many people, and how aggressive and toxic most of the vegans’ comments have been who commented here, I am steadfast in my position. Could it be written with more compassion and kindness? Probably. Probably wouldn’t have had the same impact. Probably wouldn’t have nearly 1000 comments. Probably would have been easy for people not to listen.
couldn’t help himself. Let me give you a hint. Hostile comments that direct personal attack at me, such as “you are _____” will not be published. Thanks for your understanding.
Very well written article, succinct and devastating to vegan claptrap.
It’s important to understand that we live in a postmodern world, that includes post-logic.
Cultural Marxist don’t exist in a world where logic matters, it’s all about establishing an “identity”, which gives life a purpose. These “social justice” crusaders live for the fight and they show up in numbers to overwhelm their opponents with relentless brow-beating, war of attrition style.
Right now, you are the “oppressor” and using logic to make your point is just further proof of that.
The reason vegans are upset is because animals are exploited every second of every day and there are so many people who don’t care. You saying it is B12 deficiency is showing your complete lack of understanding of being vegan means. You are free to share your non scientific study/personal experience here but you would benefit more if you actually bothered to educate yourself at all before going on a huge rant. You could blame any cause of unhappiness on lack of vitamins. I’m sure every time you have ever grieved, every time you ever experienced a breakup, every time you ever experienced failure, stress, sadness, for whatever reason it was, it was just because of your diet. I am positive that must be it. Just digest that a little bit and understand why your article is so problematic. This is hypocrisy. This is contradiction.
Literally hilarious to see how many people in the comments you are accusing of personal attacks, yet you seem utterly oblivious to your own blatantly aggressive rhetoric, right from the first sentences of your article.
An extremely aggressive, presumptive and patronising article, proving quite the opposite of the authors intent. She looks past the ever growing body of evidence which illustrates the nameless benefits of the vegan lifestyle on both a personal and global scale. Perhaps if she could provide references for each of her claims it would be possible to read this as more than the rant of a misinformed person desperately trying to justify her moral choices and discredit those of others.
What an ironic blog name. Open your eyes and look in the mirror.
Indeed, the article reflects a snapshot in time when I was still recovering from the devastating impact of a vegan diet on my life and my personality. Thankfully I experience far less anger now that I am receiving proper nutrition. Nonetheless, there are no “personal” attacks in the article. Nobody is singled out and psychoanalyzed or attacked. The article is written in general terms. Therefore we will continue to delete comments here that resort to personal attack. And vegans do indeed seem very disposed to it, because of malnutrition.
I thought this as well Christina
So essentially, in an effort to argue that the “vegan” definition is vague, etc., you use generalizations, misinformation, and anecdotal evidence to get your point across?
Finishing every sentence by repeatedly saying that vegans are mentally deficient so they wouldn’t be able to understand your writing (because they have no B12 according to their blood tests…which you would know because you are a medically trained doctor who has reviewed the blood test results of every single vegan?) is both ignorant and rude. Making such a crude generalization just detracts from your argument and makes you sound unintelligent yourself.
And again, if your health truly suffered, you must have been doing something wrong. Did you speak with a medically trained nutritionalist (not just a doctor–most doctors do not receieve extension nutrition training… it is unfortunate)? Did you get regular blood tests? Did you ensure that you had no preexisting medical conditions that rendered your body unwell?
Because, I have been vegan for three years now,; I am happy, healthy, and intelligent. So when I read this article and saw that you think I am mentally deficient, I’m sure how you can see where I’d be a bit confused…
I get blood tests every three months (perfect B12 levels, thank you. In the healthy range for everything, in fact!), have learned to manage my diet so that I am eating healthily, and am certainly thriving.
Not to say that everyone can live on a vegan diet– it is difficult for some people, I am sure. It does like commitment, EDUCATION, and planning. It is not easy, especially when people are trained by parents and society from their youth that violence and LDL cholesterol are ways of life.
Now, I’m sure you think you did enough research on the “bad” reasons about veganism, (Screw issues with definition… let’s talk about health) but have you actually extensively done research on all of the benefits of a plant-based diet? Clearly you know a little bit about deficiencies that occur when one is incorrectly eating vegan, but who are you are to say that there is no right way? You have five friends who are vegan (at least you did before you published this…) and you seem to think that these five people are exceptions to your rules. But that 99% of vegans are these crazy, mental nutjobs! Guess what: the angry people commenting are not 99% of vegans… and reading your articles inspire hatred in even the modt peaceful of minds, so can you really blame them? Do you really think that claiming they are mentally defiicent because of their diet is an appropriate response to an opposing opinion? Because that seems completely unfounded and ridiculous to me.
Your personal experience in no way indicates the experience of others. There are a great many people who are no longer vegan for the same reasons that I am no longer vegan. So long as you all continue to ignore the massive evidence against a vegan diet, your positions will go in one ear and out the other. Good day.
Funny you say that I was about to say the same to you since you based much of this on your own experience not so much other people’s experience. Hmmm sounds hypocritical right there also lol. While I don’t refute your points about veganism specifically I do question many statements you presented as facts in your agrument such as that vegans are nutrient deficient. I’ve spend my life in Cali and seen the organic and vegan movement prosper and while many are in it just like a fad or whatever I call BS on your alternative facts about nutrients. My sister is a naturopath as well as chiropractor and MD. Eating fatty fish, eggs and animal meat doesn’t make your mind or emotions run better. I doubt you are a neurologist who knows about brain chemistry and how nutrients are absorbed and used by the brain regarding veganism. In fact meat tends to be the most diseased and polluted food around. I love meat but I always go for organic healthy cuts. I’m also Indian and veganism actually means something in my country. Many of my family don’t eat meat and all that and yet they became doctors (many different types) and lawyers, pharmacists, etc. you probably did veganism the American way lol. Anyway other than that though I do agree with your sentiments about veganism in America. Many people turn it into something else. In the end you should be able to eat what you want to.
I’ve been thinking about and tapping a lot about veganism lately, because it wasn’t just my health but actually my whole life took a nose dive that year.
It’s more and more clear to me that the problem was trying to “solve a problem” at the level of the body, which never works. That lowered my energetic vibration and took me out of my usual vibration of miracles.
Nobody is going to solve the world’s problems with a diet. Period. End of story. Not negotiable. This problem will be solved when people commit to learning Christ like skills and start seeing the world as causeless. The fish and loaves didn’t come from animals or plants, so no suffering or destruction occurred. They were causeless. That is the way, and the only way, this problem will be solved.
All this endless debating by endless numbers of people who come here is absolutely useless and will solve nothing. Peace.
“Massive evidence”? Could you produce something more than anecdotes? For instance, could you produce a study reviewing vegans who take b12 and are significantly sicker than the average population?
I’ve been thinking about and tapping a lot about veganism lately, because it wasn’t just my health but actually my whole life took a nose dive that year.
It’s more and more clear to me that the problem was trying to “solve a problem” at the level of the body, which never works. That lowered my energetic vibration and took me out of my usual vibration of miracles.
Nobody is going to solve the world’s problems with a diet. Period. End of story. Not negotiable. This problem will be solved when people commit to learning Christ like skills and start seeing the world as causeless. The fish and loaves didn’t come from animals or plants, so no suffering or destruction occurred. They were causeless. That is the way, and the only way, this problem will be solved.
All this endless debating by endless numbers of people who come here is absolutely useless and will solve nothing. Peace.
Did I hear 1 year? Meaning vegan for 1 year.
14 months. Long enough to experience devastating impact on my life, health, and relationships. Never again.
You should also buy some slaves and kill some people. Because if you dont, you are still living at the expense of Africans who are dying cuz of your extra rich life compare to them. So dont be hypocrite and buy some African slaves. Same logic.
I have no idea what your point is.
His point is that just because you can’t fully avoid something doesn’t mean you should ignore the problem altogether. The fact of the matter is that it doesn’t matter in what way you put it in, veganism in general causes much less harm than eating meat&diary. Instead of focusing on the vegan ideology (which isn’t a social justice movement, btw) why not focus on the actual benefits and positive influence you can bring with being a vegan?
Basically, what you’re saying in this article is, “Ok, I can’t stop ALL animal suffering, therefore I won’t stop it AT ALL”.
That is what percisely the analogy Duke made: “Your life choices (of eating meat&dairy impact third-world countries negatively, therefore why not make them slaves and murder them? You’re harming them anyway, aren’t you?”
Bottom line – Half of this article consisted of emotional, unbased provocations, and the fact of the matter is veganism causes least harm to animals (including humans).
Michael: You talk about reducing harm.
So, explain to me how eating tuna caught in the wild (lives taken: 1, feeds: many people), causes more harm than eating a bowl of veggies and fruits (lives taken: thousands -including bees, rats, insects, reptiles, etc. killed via pesticides, farmers shooting them, etc-, feeds: 1 person).
Let me draw a diagram for you:
Wild caught tuna:
Animals dead: 1
Feeds: Many people.
Bowl of veggies and fruits:
Animals dead: +1000 . Certain ecosystems possibly destroyed. Animals displaced. Slave work from bees for industrial pollination possibly required.
Feeds: 1 person (poorly fed, supplements possibly needed, or additional food intake).
Please explain to me how my delicious and nutritious grilled fish causes more harm to animals than your bowl of veggies and fruits.
Deleted. Like so many vegans, could not refrain from personal attacks. Probably due to malnutrition.
Why are you so aggressive and mean? Almost like what you claim vegans to be? You put on this front of being “woke” and spiritual but you’re just plain mean. I feel sorry for you (and no I’m not a vegan. But I do care for other being’s feelings)
I was still recovering from the deficiencies. I’m much sweeter now :)
I guess personal attacks are a one-way street on this site and only acceptable if you feel justified, which you clearly do based on this hostile piece. Opposing opinions are not welcome here, just a lot of pretentious s***-talking. Aren’t there more productive ways to express yourself without crapping all over other people? Seems rather petty, but I’ll bet the attention generated by attacking others feels amazing.
Personal attacks are personal, meaning they single someone out.
Maybe you wouldn’t take so much heat if you were not ideologically aligned with infanticidal maniacs like Peter Singer and other misanthropic blithering nut cases. Grow a skin already!
Reading this validated my “almighty” vegan ways. Lol, seriously, you have some creative arguments, but they’re not very convincing. Sorry, but you kind of sound like a judgemental, pretentious version of that chick that wrote that vegetarian myth book. You have succeeded in making a lot of people in your comment section feel better/deal with their struggles with cognitive dissonance. I’ll give you that much. I don’t hate corpse connoisseurs, they’re friends and family. I don’t think I’m better than anyone because of the vegan thing. I may vehemently disagree with them, but I would never speak to them in the condescending tone you seem to embrace. I’ll continue in my efforts to help people take those blinders off. Not through cynicism and disdain, but through hope, love and compassion. After all, that’s what veganism is all about. Thanks for the inspiration. Peace.
I see no hope, love and compassion in how your tribe tries to shove your way of life down everyone’s throat. We must have different definitions of those words.
What’s horrible is when vegans compare artificially inseminating a cow to a man raping a woman. Can you get more misogynistic than that? FWIW, a lot of them seem to hate vegetarians just as much, if not more, than meat eaters. Proof that there’s only one way with them.
Hello, late to the party, but, as a staunch habitual vegetarian and 12 year vegan(I just can’t be assed fussing over picking out eggs and cheese any more), I would like to completely agree with pretty much everything you said here(back when you did)
There are certainly outside factors as well, but within a year or two of becoming vegan I gained weight(unusual for a vegan, but i am petulant and contrary) and became drastically more sickly, being ill as often as not, for years, developed anxiety and anger issues, and despite being waved off as imagining things or exaggerating, used to complain that i could feel myself getting drastically dumber, as if parts of my mind kept fading away.
My only issue, and it’s a small one, is that while it seemed pretty clearly only intended humorously, hyperbolically and as a lightly barbed jab at vegans fitting with the rest of the article, the talking down and assumptions of ignorance & incompetence felt a little pointed and insulting to the nutritionally deficient or otherwise cognitively impaired. Not firing on all cylinders or having complete access to and control of your faculties is quite different from being the complete imbecile incapable of reason or of following the simplest of logic you’ve depicted. Probably not intended to call everyone who’s brain doesn’t opperate as optimally as yours a troglodyte, but I felt a bit like you were talking slowly and louder to explain an uncomplicated observation when it really wasn’t necessary and telling people what they can and can’t possibly understand seemed umfairly dismissive. I have hardly any B12 in me and have proven not to be the brightest even without chemical deficiencies, but on a good day I like to think I can probably keep up with a healthy person of even average intelligence when it comes to reading a single coherent sentence without freezing up, bleeding from the nose, and exploding at the neck. I’m stupid, not a brick wall. Sorry, I didn’t mean that to come off so emphatic or unreasonable. I get weird when i try to say stuff. I really did like the article.
I was just about the most unhealthy vegan you could ever imagine for a good 4-5 years of my life. Here’s how it went down: Went vegan almost 18 years ago (damn reaizing that right now makes me feel old!) Wasn’t really into the whole nutrition thing at that point, but I got a lot of exercise, and I’m fortunate enough to say that life was good. Later I ended up going to law school, life was still good. I had a regular workout schedule and there were a lot of good healthy vegan food options where I lived. After I graduated and I got into a very unhealthy relationship, fell off the exercise wagon and ate like an idiot. Fast and cheap (think Taco Bell vegan). I was constantly stressed out (work, drama, all that good stuff). I felt like crap, ate like crap to deal with the fact I felt like crap. Yeah you know the cycle. Gained a ton of weight, which tends to perpetuate the cycle. Then one day I just sick of it and made up my mind that I needed to take care of myself or I’d end up diabetic or worse. I got out of that unhealthy relationship, started working out, educated myself about proper nutrition and started eating real food (still vegan, just not processed garbage). In other words, I started giving a f*!ck about myself again. Today I’m probably in the best shape than I’ve ever been. So my point in this long ramble is, I was a very unhealthy vegan. But I don’t blame being vegan for the reason I was unhealthy. It was poor planning and bad choices that led to terrible anxiety and stress and an unhealthy pattern of behaviors that almost destroyed me. Yeah, It sucked, but I learned a lot. The most important lesson was to never take my health (mental, spiritual and physical) for granted. My other point, you can be unhealthy on any diet because of poor planning and decisions. And when you go through hard times, planning and decision making skills can take a huge hit. The end.
Great … and many of us were vegan, living on whole foods “healthy” diet and exercising and the whole bit … and still vegan diet destroyed my health and has done the same to many others. It “working for you” sometimes doesn’t mean it works for everyone else. I deeply, deeply regret that I was vegan as it affected other areas of my life as well and was a significant factor in the loss of my beloved Harvey. Nobody, and I mean nobody, will ever convince me to go anywhere near it ever again. Learn how to manifest fish and loaves because that is the only way this problem is getting solved.
Well, I certainly lack the knowledge and expertise to declare that the vegan diet can “work” for “everyone.” But I think it’s possible and beneficial for many. As unfortunate as the outcome of your experience was, at least your heart was in the right place. I think it’s cool that you acted on something that moved you to the extent you could. Not many people are willing to think about what goes on in the industry, or even allow themselves to acknowledge it. Even fewer are willing to act on it. Not because they’re bad people, I believe we’re conditioned from a very young age to accept and believe a lot of things, one of them being the quantity of animal products people perceive they “need” on a daily basis. At least that was my experience.
Your comment has been deleted. Try again without personal attacks.
Personal attacks upset you!!!????? Like – all vegans should kill themselves!!! Are you also suggesting that all people who eat meat are healthy? Because the epidemic of obesity – with all its fatal health complications – and diabetes are almost exclusive to those super healthy meat eaters.
Actually, things like heart disease strike vegans because of malnutrition. Likewise many of us had trouble with blood sugar on a vegan diet.
Wow great post!! Informative, entertaining and eye opening. Thanks!!
Erika, have you read “China Study”? This study is very unlikely to suffer from a self-selection bias.
I agree that most vegans defend their lifestyle in a way that doesn’t stand up to logical scrutiny. But isn’t it true of most popular opinions? The average Joe has no notion of logic, believing that “logic” means “common sense” or whatever orderly looking argument he finds easy to agree with. No nutritional deficiency is to blame here. On the other hand, professional philosophers have attempted to explore the ethics of veganism, and their definitions and arguments are not as laughable.
Actually the China Study amounts to a fraud. It is an observational study taken from the data of another study.There are many critics of TCS, and they all say the same thing, Campbell conclusions about the negative effects of animal foods are NOT reflected in the original data.Campbell also omitts the foodsuff that most strongly correlates with heart disease; wheat consumption Even the vegan scientist Jonathan Gardiner of Stanford has said this. Please also remember that there are no naturally occurring vegan cultures in China or anywhere else on the planet. TCS was never submitted for peer review.
You will find a few critiques from scientists, MD’s, nutritionists here
Your high offensive attitute towards the vegan society turns my thoughts to somethings else! Meat industry has enormous economical budget!!
Big food manufacturers and pharmaceutical companies also have huge budgets… I hear they’ve been providing training to doctors and dietitians having them push veganism on their patients as healthy. Would you say that Big Pharma is willing to go out of business when everyone gets healthy from veganism? What about a lot of these for-profit health insurance companies making plant based programs available to their patients? No money in healthy people…
good points. based on my own experience, I was going to end up in critical care very quickly if I continued a vegan diet. lots of money for them in that.
Your comment has been deleted. Try again without personal attacks. Good day to you.
0% argued. 100% elite tantrum.
I’m not vegan and you neither. Accept it. I don’t see any problem.
Hold that L
Your comment was deleted due to failure to refrain from personal attacks and ad hominem. A pattern that seems to plague the vegan community.
Your comment has been deleted. Again, anyone who cannot refrain from personal attacks on me – and many vegans can’t because their brains are nutritionally deprived as mine used to be on a vegan diet – will not be published here. Remove the ad hominem from your comment and try again. Do not psychoanalyze me based on my education etc. Keep your comment to the merits without personal attacks and you’ll have no problem getting published here. Good day.
It’s a good thing you’re deleting the ad hominem attacks from all of those brain-deficient, emotionally imbalanced, insane vegans! We wouldn’t want this brilliant discourse sullied by name-calling.
What is your reason for writing this article and believing the things you wrote? Is it love or logic? Because people become vegans because they love animals. And love is the most powerful force that has ever existed. Love always wins….
If you love animals, learn how to manifest fish and loaves like Christ did, without harming anyone. Any belief system rooted in sacrifice – which veganism is – is doomed to failure. And there ain’t nothing loving about that.
I grew up in Greece where the idea of vegetarianism has not taken hold such as in other parts of the (mostly) western world. I’m not a scientist so I don’t understand studies and I also know that the food industry is massive and there is a whole lot of misinformation about so I tend to think that a good guide to what works can come from what people eat in established food cultures. I do happen to think that there is a self-righteousness associated with some vegans and anyone using the refrain “go educate yourself” I think is only proving their ignorance. It is silly to assume that people don’t know what works for them. So I don’t understand the science and I realise that the food industry can manipulate studies to support certain outcomes and that people react differently, leaving me to place my trust in established food cultures. Apart from aspects of Indian culture, I don’t know of any others that have a vegan/vegetarian diet. None of this shit would ever have happened if people still learnt to cook of their parents/grandparents where possible. Bacon rules!
I used to be a vegetarian, but I started having oxalate kidney stones. I went to the doctor and he told me probably my body cannot handle that type of diet and to start eating fish and some chicken. The stones stopped.
The vegan/vegetarian physolophy is beautiful, but it doesn’t suit everybody. It’s a matter of genetics.
I lost a couple of vegan friends. Now they attack me everytime I find them on the street, calling me (really loud so everybody can hear) murderer and stuff like that.
The vegan community works that way, and don’t tell me it doesn’t, because it does. I’m sick of those facebook posts showing how cute the animals are, but the comments are full of intolerance and hate.
Let me tell you one thing. You will NOT change the people’s mind behaving like that. You are annoying and make people hate vegans and veganism. Understand that.
Right, it often seems that vegans simply transfer their hatred from the food they eat to how they treat other people (myself included while I was vegan). Therefore, the problem has been moved around perhaps but not solved.
Can you stop using the word PEACE at the end of your little blurbs please because they mean nothing coming from you, it’s like rapists saying peace to the members of the family of someone they just raped. Look up the word and see if it complies to your chosen way of life, and do you actually think they (your meat) went peacefully and compliantly? Your a joke, strange how educated someone can become and still be so underdeveloped where it matters most – the heart.
Peace can never be found in a world where illusions are made real. Whereas once you realize that all food is causeless, that it is manifested out of thin air as Jesus did, then you can have peace. Nothing you ever thought was done was ever done. It was all one big cosmic joke. Your sinlessness is guaranteed by God.
Veganism is indeed an oxymoron. All vegans I have ever heard of happily support the abortion of human life and the politicians who are in favor of the abortion of human life.
Like many movements, many mouth-pieces of the vegan movement speak words that not all of us believe. However, I am not in a cult, my blood work is fine, I’m not lethargic, my hair is thick and shiny, i no longer have to be on the pill for hormone control (though that may just be a coincidence), i’ve dropped some excess weight and in recovering from bulimia I am at a healthy average weight and my relationship with food has been drastically improved. Along with this I’m a university student and have managed this all on minimum funds. Everyday I strive to not contribute to a system that I deem is unethical in both its treatment of animals and it’s effect on the climate. I do not see how these things could be bad, and your article just made me feel like you lumped us all in a box, as if we were not people. You did not convince me, you made me wince in embarrassment and laugh at your resorting to insulting our brain functions to help fuel your rant.
Have a lovely evening Erika, hope your own words made you feel validated.
Why pretend to wish me a lovely evening, when clearly you are angry and don’t like what I’ve written? I’ve said it many times here. If it works for you, great. It doesn’t work for most people, and many vegans (not all) are attempting to force a diet on everyone else that is actually downright dangerous for many.
Calling a vegan diet “dangerous” is flat out ridiculous. I’m not sure where you’re based but one walk around a mall or grocery store here in America and the majority of our citizens are fat, sick, on some kind of medication for some ailment, and most of it stems for their horrific dietary habits. I’m far from an expert and I don’t think there’s enough facts to call a vegan diet perfect, but give me a break on the dangerous part, most of the world that could practically follow a vegan diet would be much better off than continuing their current dietary practices.
It is indeed a dangerous diet, with many of us experiencing devastating impact on our lives and relationships. You’re free to have your opinion, and I will continue to inform people of the whitewashing that has occurred in the vegan community.
This is ridiculous fluff.
Firstly she issues a “disclaimer” at the beginning of the piece that blatantly insults vegans and denounces their potential arguments due to “lack of proper brain chemistry”… Nice (where’s the science/data on vegan brain deficiencies?). Her weak anecdote regarding her own health is not proof that a vegan diet is not adequate, what was she actually eating? How much was she eating? What “health issues” is she referring to?
I’d be willing to put money on the fact that the overwhelming majority of diet related health issues in the western world have nothing to do with veganism. the opposite is true (heart disease being the biggest killer in the west), I’m sure all these people dying of heart problems are not vegans.
So her vegan friends are all well-adjusted and fine, but 99% are DHA/B12 deficient and therefore unable to form a coherent argument? Please! give me strength (oh that’s right, I have none, I’m a vegan #lol)…. So, simple maths says that she knows 500 vegans, and they are all mental cases. Apparently it’s vegans with brain problems? what a laugh.
So, bees are harmed by industrialised almond farming…. therefore torture and kill animals? This is the crux of her argument. A few simple pieces of logic missing from this argument. It’s not just vegans who eat almonds, I’m sure the majority of almonds are eaten by omnivorous humans. If you understand anything about logic and debate you will recognise this as an appeal to futility (you can’t cause zero harm, so just cause maximum harm because it doesn’t matter), because you cannot be perfect is a not a reason to not do something at all.
She is actually comparing herself to a wild animal. I don’t think I need to even go in to how ridiculous an argument this is. She is going to base all of her behavioural and moral judgements on that of a lion or wolf?
Apart from Gary Yourovsky, I’ve never heard a vegan say “I am morally superior to a meat eater”, nor put anyone down directly for eating meat/eggs/dairy. Why do carnists get so damn defensive and frankly illogical regarding veganism?
Is she defending the torture, rape and early death inflicted on animals through industrialised farming? Really?
Sure, eat meat, do whatever you want, but don’t sit there and tell me that the way we treat animals is OK. Watch earthlings and then turn to the person next to you and say “I’m 100% fine with that” (highly unlikely).
She is right about one thing. The world would definitely benefit from a large number of humans committing suicide. She thinks because this is a logical conclusion, and a ridiculous sounding one, and most vegans don’t commit suicide that we are all hypocrites. Now THAT is some mental gymnastics that I find hard to fathom.
The tone of this opinion fluff is that vegans’ motivation and ultimate intention for being vegan is to feel superior to other people. This is 100% blatantly not true.
You are full of it !! It is true and don’t deny it ! I have been personally attacked by vegans and I am sick of people like you trying lying about it !! Some of the arguments vegans use are absolutely bullshit ! I am in the medical profession and have seen first hand how this diet destroys people !! Most of the vegans I have met with the exception of a few have been violent verbally even physically sometimes !! Stop telling me and other people who have been the target of this abuse that we are making it up !! How dare you deny our reality !!
Aaaaaaand a vegan comes along comparing animal husbandry to rape. Thanks for proving the point that vegans have no compassion for their fellow human beings, keep spewing your word-vomit, you’re only showing your own a$$
So all you basically said is that you don’t believe the American Dietetic Association that states that a well-planned vegan diet is good for humans of all ages. I mean what did I expect from someone who calls themself awakened. Science? Surely not.
I have made it a habit to think for myself.
Me too, I don’t believe it when doctors tell me sugar and fat are bad for my health, I think for myself. The 5 people I know who don’t eat sugar are all perfectly healthy people but they are obviously just anomalies
If doctors tell you sugar and fat are bad for your health, you probably should see a real doctor, not the kind that gives you magic crystals and dreamcatchers for your problems.
If you know 5 people who don’t eat sugar at all, literally 0% sugar in their diets, then yes they are miracles of modern science and should definitely see a doctor, if not a physicist so we can find out how they broke the first law of thermodynamics.
Let Them Eat Meat blog, (another ex-vegan) made a 3-4 part critique on the ADA’s vegan stance. Basically, a bunch of vegans and vegetarians made the position, and many of them peer-reviewed it. If that wasn’t enough, the ADA has had it’s ties with the Seven Days Adventist Church, a sect of Christianity that endorses in strict vegetarianism. It would probably explain why they’ve been lenient and quite about how there’s been very few studies on vegan pregnancies and child nutrition, not many experimental studies on vegan health and supplementation, no long-term studies on vegan health, and no population-size generational studies on vegan health, yet many make the intentionally broad claim that “well-planned vegan diets are healthful”, ‘well-planned’ seems to cover up the many issues with b-complex vitamins, vitamin d, lysine, complete proteins, b12, iron and the vitamin newbies like creatine, and taurine, vitamin K1, which can only be solved by aggressive pharmaceutical supplementation.
Another thing to consider is that, remember that in the 1950’s, dietitians thought that vegan diets were efficient in providing all the major and macronutrients for humans to be healthy. Then, later they discovered “vitamin b12”, which was too soon for the misguided vegans studied as well the same decade, who had permanent nerve damage from severe and pro-longed pernicious anemia.
Nutritional science is tricky and fickly, I don’t think it’s wise to advocate a poorly-researched experimental diet, that can only be sustained by the use of pharmaceutical supplements (and that is only for the *known macronutrients)
“Lenient and quiet”
The ADA was founded by the Seventh Day Adventist church. Not much science going there. Just religious dietary dogma based on Ellen White’s visions in the mid 19th century.
PLEASE SHOW ME YOUR NUTRITION DEGREE, OH WAIT YOU DON’T HAVE ONE AND THEREFOR DO NOT HAVE ANY SUFFICIENT EVIDENCE OF THE SCIENCE YOU ARE QUOTING, PLEASE GET A FORMAL QUALIFICATION AND LEARN WHAT YOUR TYPING PLEASE, BECAUSE YOU ARE SPREADING A POISON MINDSET FILLED WITH ‘WHAT YOU THINK IS RIGHT’ NOTHING GOOD HAS EVER COME FROM PEOPLE LIKE YOU SPREADING UNINFORMED AND INCORRECT OPINIONS AND SILENCING OTHERS BEFORE THEY SUBMIT TO YOUR PATHETIC IDEOLOGY ‘DONT COMMENT UNTIL YOU HAVE EATEN FISH’ LOOKING BACK THROUGH HISTORY, ONE WOULD HAVE AMPLE EVIDENCE THAT COULD COMPARE YOU TO THAT OF A NAZI, DELETE YOUR ACCOUNT.
Did you know that when you write in ALL CAPS, it is very difficult for others to read and appears like you are SHOUTING at us?
It’s not his fault, it’s the the vitamin B12 deficiency talking.
calling her a nazi? that’s priceless, callum! guess you are ignorant to the fact that hitler was a vegetarian.
Verify if Hitler was a vegetarian one.
That was a myth created by his Propaganda secretary.
you just brought to life everything she was talking about, and you don`t see it, because you are lacking serious brain nutrients
Great article. This exemplifies why I believe in animal welfare, not animal RIGHTS. Nothing has a RIGHT to life or nothing would die. We need animals to survive and thrive- in my opinion spiritually as well as nutritionally. I consider the ‘no animals’ stance, such as PETA’s, that there should be no human-animal interaction whatsoever, to be mentally deranged, morally deprived and spiritually wrong. We are ALL here, on this planet, bound together in the cycle of life for a reason. No animal should ever be abused or maltreated, but to take an animals life as quickly and humanely as possible is not abuse. It is the cycle of life.
Are you killing the animals you eat yourself ? Where do you find them ? You go hunting and manage to chase them and take their life without causing the animal any stress and suffering ?
Also could you describe precisely the famous “humane way” of killing an animal ?
In the end, is it really possible to treat well the 60 billions animals we slaughter each year to satisfy our taste buds ?
We’re not doing anything to satisfy our “taste buds.” We’re doing it as a result of millions of years of evolution. If you want it changed, learn how to reprogram the unconscious mind. And please do not underestimate the magnitude of the task.
I am so happy I stumbled across this article and can honestly say it is refreshing to read. I was raised by a mother who was a strict vegan and ultimately left veganism in my early twenties after being diagnosed with thyroid issues and insulin resistance as a result of those thyroid issues. I also agree that not everyone has the capability to sustain a vegan diet as we are all so biologically diverse in nature; not arguing that some are able to for years but there are most who cannot. In fact, soy and gluten is not healthy for most humans as is lactase (lactose) as majority of the human population is unable to process these naturally. Vegan activists argue that vegan diet is inexpensive but when I was a vegan the only items were corn, rice, beans but no one can sustain a healthy and balanced diet on just those things alone. In addition to unable to process insulin I have difficulty with soy and gluten even vegan cheese is made out of those very items. Therefore to live even somewhat healthy lifestyle I would have to consume these.
There are a ton of methods most activist vegan groups use to get people to join their “cause” martyrdom effect, gas lighting just to name a few. My one good friend recently left veganism after an activist group tried to break up her marriage. I often get many of the using my health as an “excuse” to not be vegan but another line that spoke to me in this article was how they all looked like skeletons. I think if you look malnourished, eyes sunken in ( a sign of anemia and malnourishment) and look anorexic this is not healthy. Basically, veganism works great if one has minimal health issues.
I also agree with agriculture and veganism. If we do grow more crops there is deforestation, pesticides and various other factors. Overall, I am all for the notion that we need to start producing what we need instead of just mass production for the sake of production. Animals are just a small factor of the environment we need to look at consumption, pollution as there are several countries which survive on a primarily vegetarian diet but the overall pollution and conditions of the land are deplorable.
like it or not, most people who subscribe to veganism do it because they want to “be” vegan. i’m sure that on a very small scale, their cessation from animal consumption has a positive impact on animal welfare, but what do most vegans do for animal welfare/exploitation beyond simply not eating animal products? i’m positive that it’s nothing for the majority of them. but here’s a news flash: you don’t have to “be” vegan to stand up for animal rights. just like you don’t have to join a civic group or any other type of club or association to volunteer in your community. why can’t it just be enough to be a person who doesn’t consume animal products IN ADDITION to working to reduce animal harm/exploitation? because people like to sensationalize who they are and inflate their relevance. and joining a popular group and/or living up to the definitions of a popular label is an easy way to achieve that.
Honestly, the vegan diet is something that I decided to do because I made a conscious decision that I would at least try to make some sort of difference, whether or not I will actually be an impact. It also makes me feel much more energized. I was in a situation where I had to eat meat recently (poor planning on my part), and I just felt drowsy and sick to my stomach. I try to stay on the vegan diet as strictly as I can, though I understand why I cannot sometimes, to make myself feel better. I honestly do not care what anyone else does, though I will try my best to inform you on what I know if one were to ask. I don’t understand why everyone thinks veganism is a “political” statement. Why would someone refuse to be vegan because of how others see it? Do what you want, not what others tell you.
First off, the tone you come across as in this article is extremely bias. When I read this article and it may be stated as an argument, but is completely in lack of any premise and appears to have occurred out of simply emotional irrational. I simply see nonmoral statements filled with slippery slope fallacies and hasty generalizations. I see that you are well educated, but you do not express it, by any means,in this article. Show me some evidence and site me some sources with all of this research you have conducted. I am sorry veganism didn’t work for you, I am sorry you couldn’t “figure out” how to healthfully get the nutrients required being vegan, and I am sorry the religion/cult of veganism left you with such hatred for us fellow vegans.
What I see foremost in your article is the hasty generalization that vegan or a plant-based lifestyle can be so exclusive to one philosophy of veganism. I didn’t read a vegan bible that stated don’t hurt the poor animals and become a hippie, because, well, peace man. No, that is not, by any means, a way to look at veganism. I’ll just eat oreos and drink coke all day; justify that this self-harming lifestyle as ok, because cows should all be freed and the soybean plants depleting the soil of nutrients is a much better outcome. No! That is being biased!
I have been on and off veganism for over 10 years, and it was not my own will or medical needs that led me a way from the lifestyle; it was my conservative family telling me that having high blood pressure and lack of energy was the healthy choice, because it hurt them to see me “act out” against their traditional lifestyle, to hurt the family business (dairy & beef farming), and they feared for my health (lack of calcium and iron).
Animal welfare (surprisingly) had little impact in my choice to become vegan. I was more worried about my health and the health of my loved ones, the amount of earth required to consume American standards of animal products (for feeding, growing, transporting, and processing), and the SCIENTIFIC facts of how the modernized diet has impacted humanity as a whole. You can eat a crap diet eating vegan or the standard chemical-laced omnivorous diet, but one diet allows for the greater interest in the micro nutrients as opposed to the macro nutrients and the ridding the those foods KNOWN to cause cancer, heart disease, diabetes, and, yes, osteoporosis.
I am not here to comment irrationally out of emotional motives, but rather to ask you to source your evidence and to be ready for a rebuttal, because I have taken much time to consider my resources with a UNBIASED opinion with both scientific and philosophical facts as well as 20 year WILLING case study to show the true effects of a HEALTHY vegan lifestyle. True veganism encompasses the internal, the external, and the mental facts to be solidly derived.
I will add further proof, if required, to my argument for health factors, physiology, and environmental studies to dispute my side. What, undisputedly, can you prove to me?
The open-minded skeptic,
good luck changing the world with that attitude :)
Loved the construction of Brookynlyn reply.
Personally, I have always loved animals it took me one day to cut off whatever food and product that I knew for sure was the result of animal suffering, after watching those horrible videos taken at slaughterhouses I made the connection in one second and just couldn’t taste a bite of meat, eggs, cheese anymore, I don’t consider myself vegan, I don’t like tags. Not for health reasons or trying to save the world. I just love animals, since I decided to avoid these products I am happier, I was missing this in my life. I just love animals so much and my soul feels in peace to know that I try hard to not contribute to their pain.
“Most vegans don’t eat organic food…”
Do you have any research to back this up?
I am not disagreeing with you, but I think this entire article could be written better. It is very biased and you state your opinions as if they are facts.
Article is my opinions and observations
Your opinions and observations are completely refutable. A disgrace for other law practitioners.
In other words ‘everyone is entitled to your opinion
I couldn’t spend a year or so reading this entire thread, but has anyone mentioned Joseph Campbell’s oft-quoted statement, “all life lives by killing and eating?” If we are going to limit ourselves to compassion solely on behalf of intelligent lifeforms then we would do well to investigate recent research into the methods of communication among various plants. Are you aware that communities of trees will arrange among themselves to funnel nutrients through their root systems to the stumps of comrades that have been felled, allowing them to remain alive in the absence of any way to photosynthesize? Consider for a moment what you are doing when you masticate LIVING mung bean sprouts. Now be all haughty and superior about your vegan lifestyle. Go right ahead.
Yep why the real answer must be a higher order solution, such as non-causal manifestation (fish and loaves) and/or eliminating the need for consumption altogether.
It amuses me. Vegans usually say “I don’t want to eat animals or animal products because I love animals and I do not want to play any part in their suffering and death”. Pretty simple, really. Why does she need so many words to explain or defend her position?
Erika you are totally brilliant. You just spoke my mind and there are so much i could learn from you. As ourselves being omnivorous organisms i don’t see why we can not eat animals unless we all have found a cosmic law that forbids us to do so. Until then, have fun munching your buffalo wings and oh to all the vegans out there, enjoy killing your cute veggies.
How are unsupported claims brilliant? If humans have been around for tens of thousands of years, do we really believe evolution has had time to change our systems from utilizing mostly plant eating, to highly processed meat, dairy, and concentrated sugars and fats successfully? All other arguments seem to miss that point relative to health.
Humans are not mostly plant eating, never have been, and the issue of processed is a different issue than the vegan one. Lots of vegans eat processed food, also.
One of the most dangerous attitude of activist vegans is the total lack of respect for the individual liberties. You see, one can accept many of the nonsensical opinions and judgements they throw against the rest of the common and mortal human beings that are not like them. As long as they keep them within the rhetorical limits, they have the right to express themselves. What they seem not to understand at all (due to some amino acid deficiency) is the difference between one idea and the imposition of it, and here is when we enter the realm of laws regarding people’s rights so the whole thing becomes a legal matter and that means that me, as a free person, have the right to eat what I like (and need) but, does that mean that I have the right to make other people eat what I like? A very simple question that vegans ought to ask themselves once in a while.
Yes and they would say, you are taking that liberty away from animals. Round and round we go, in endless circles of self-flagellation, because this problem will not be solved at the level it was created.
Just keep killing and tortuing those animals. Oh and feel free to love them also!.
Most irrational defense EVERRRR.
I’m in full agreeance here that veganism is not a sustainable diet, nor does it work for everyone, even the ones that “do it right”. I’m a firm believer everybody’s body reacts differently to food.
That said we can agree the diet works for “some” and I think it helps diversify and reduce the demand on the meat industry.
Anyone can agree typically factory farming methods are deplorable and if we’re going to have sustainable food then we need to reduce or overall food consumption to normal food portions, actively consume a variety of foods, and ensure the ingredients are as pure as possible.
We currently consume grass-fed beef, butter, pasture raised eggs, and as much usda organic products we can. We also grow some plants in the garden which many people fail to use their own land for growing.
I think it’s great that with food variety people have more options, but we can’t be ignorant to our own health and biodiversity.
It all goes back to reduce, reuse, recycle. Let’s stop making and using products beyond “reasonable” consumption. I mean how many clothing stores do we need, crappy product stores, etc etc.
We need to focus on quality instead of quantity.
A vegan diet doesn’t work for everyone, but I’m sure we could agree that we could “incorporate” a few meals and options in our diet for variety :)
Love your balanced wise Comment.
Erika… Marry me.
There’s a long line lol ;)
Haha! With your education, you are waaay out of my league anyway, beautiful.
I completely disagree with your conclusions. But rather than stating my disagreements, I’ll simply agree with the majority of the other arguments posted against your piece in the comment section. I’ve been vegan for over 20 years, and contrary to your views, my mind is very sharp and my body is extremely healthy. My point in writing, however, is not to take issue with your “anti-vegan” article, but rather to make an observation. Is the TRUE purpose of your article to discuss your issues with the vegan lifestyle? While at first glance, that motivation seems to be the primary reason, I believe that your motivation is something else. I’m wondering whether your article–and others– is really to get folks to think “differently.” More specifically, most comments have addressed this article based literally on the literal text. But is the true purpose of the piece to encourage people to look beyond the literal writing, and instead, to look at the problem of consumption, and its solutions, in a unique way? If so, interesting bit of writing.
You may be one of those people who has the genetic makeup to handle a vegan diet. Most of us don’t. I have no regrets about abandoning the diet because it was pretty clear I was not going to be alive much longer if I continued it, and I don’t consider my own suicide a solution to anything.
Yes, the problem of consumption in many ways is our problem. E.g, the Dakota Access Pipeline. Consider how many choices of consumption could easily be changed so that pipeline would be unnecessary (such as coercing people to go to jobs every day and put in “face time” when the truth is many people’s jobs easily could be done from home without commuting). Why do we ignore the easy answers and make it seem like this is a “tough choice”?
Well, because the problem goes way deeper. The problem is at the level of our belief systems. And that is where it will be solved. Which is why these attempts to impose “physical solutions” always fail in the end. And why I refuse to continue participating in a “physical solution” that so clearly is not working.
When people wake up, they will start working on their belief system as the root of all these problems. The problem is not so much the act of consumption, as it is the belief that consumption is necessary. And we got a whole lot of work to do on our belief systems before that is going to change.
*whoops, excuse my lack of editing one of the sentences.
Thanks for your thoughtful response. First, I must tell you that “Jeff” is merely an online name that I use. I don’t use my real first name because my employer monitors FB, as well as posts, and has the authority to discipline us based on any comments *they* feel are inappropriate. So, it’s just easier to use “Jeff” and avoid the hassle. If for some reason, we ever email privately, I’ll disclose my first name.
If the vegan diet doesn’t work for you, then, yes, you should not follow it. No blame can be placed for doing so. My friend has the same issues, but she eats only the amount of meat necessary for health. She actually does better on a vegetarian diet.
I agree with you that the same level of linear thought will get us nowhere. This country seems to have an obsession with following failed trends and ideas, only to believe that the same thoughts and actions will solve the very problems that they created (as you know, Einstein talked about this, and I’ve read similar quotes from you). As for your example of the Dakota pipeline, your spot on. It tries to “address” an issue that shouldn’t be an issue. And, yes, with a better thought process, the entire pipeline would be unnecessary. But instead of solving the underlying problem, the pipeline is built and is protested. And, not surprisingly, more pipelines projects and associated protests will follow because of the same thinking.
I’ve always been fascinated with the built environment and how it shapes our relationships with one another. I’m particularly fascinated with the sociology of small towns and “main streets.” Here where I live (Sacramento, CA), the area is sprawling out of control. As a solution, I’ve talked to planners about the alternative of rebuilding our existing suburbs into human-scale towns before any other open space is developed. But when I explain the simple concept to these planners, their eyes literally glaze over as if I’m just asked them to solve an advanced formula. A different way of thinking is foreign. I could go on and on, but I think you understand my point.
If you have the time, I’m curious whether you’re familiar with the teachings of Lou Tice at The Pacific Institute? He teaches that to think differently, we must reprogram our subconscious mind, done mostly through affirmations (much more but basically that’s the concept). If you are familiar with him, I’m curious about your thoughts? I ask because my employer is sending us through Tice’s four day video training series.
I enjoy reading your writing and like how you “think.”
You claim to speak “logical” and you believe that absurd facts told in the Bible happened for real?!
How do you know they didn’t?
What a transparently terrible argument being made here. It’s pretty hilarious that you state over and over again that most people can’t live a healthy vegan life and yet you provide no evidence for this claim. I mean, you seem to be so into logic so how can you not realize that anecdotal evidence isn’t going to cut it? There are those who cannot be vegan, though they are likely few and far between, but even they are responsible for excess suffering for every animal product they eat above what is necessary. This reads like a stream of consciousness of cognitive dissonance trying to justify your actions to yourself. If you truly cannot be vegan then put a plan in place with your doctor which will allow you to get the nutrients which are necessary and not any more than that. On top of all this, your incredibly strange position that you should reduce animal exploitation as much as is practical and possible reduces to “do whatever you want” is so devoid of reason that it’s hard to even start with what’s wrong. Imagine that I believed that I ought drive as little as possible to help the environment. It is clearly impossible to never drive so does that mean that it follows that it is just as moral to buy a hummer drive around my neighborhood even though I don’t need to? I mean this is so clear that it’s amazing you proposed such a simple position.
Which part of “You’re not going to solve this problem with the mind that created it” do you not understand?
‘Most vegans’. This crops up quite a bit. The writer seems to know a lot about how a few million people think. Wish I was that well informed.
Hi, i want to share quickly some my thoughts, and experiences.
I was vegetarian for 12 years, when i tried a frugivore diet, i started to develop brain problems, sex drive, and i was very thin, this was the negative aspect, but i develop a great inner state.
Due this sex drive problems, and memory problems, i jump into veganism.
The memory problems, and sex drive, was the same, until i discover, that the FRUITS, and Sugars, and NUTS, they give me brain fog, and low sex drive.
I removed them and i’m improved a lot, my sex drive was solve, and my memory problems, are much better, i’m much more focus now.
The fruits, and fruit smothies, are not so good for me, and for others, this is why some of you had brain problems, and sex drive low.
I remove the oats to, soy products, soy milk, because they are not good for me.
At this moment, i’m jumping to vegetarian again, and i’m adding 3 yolks, with a spoon of olive in the snack of the morning and in the afternoon.
Breakfast usually i blend kale with water ( mono meal to ) without fruits, or, others.
And in the rest of the day, i’m eating mono meals of rice in the lunch, and dinner lentils with olive oil, to help to digest the foods.
I’m eating olive oil, because it aids my digestion, but i’m trying to have another solution.
My portions at lunch, 125 ml of dry rice, and lentils, respecting my fist mesure.
Listen your body, and if you go to restaurant’s eat what you want, ( eggs and cheese if you want ).
Conclusion, i think vegetarian, with eggs or yolks, can be safe, and you can add cheese, and you are good.
But if you still have problems, consider fish, meat.
Thanks for sharing your experience. I appreciate you sharing in a non-judgmental way, what works for you.
Did you consider any other things, apart from food, that might’ve had an impact on you?
In Europe, and especially in my country, most of the veggans eat organic food, I don’t know why in the US it’s not the case.
But this one is really true:
If you are a veggan (at least in Europe), you eat organic food, and if you are against any animal exploitation, how could your organic food grow, without animal manure, and without chemistry products?
Thanks Erika! It’s the weirdest paradox I’ve ever seen… Explain it to European veggans.
Yep this is why nobody is going to solve these problems with the mind that created them.
It’s called veganic agriculture.
Erika, you should write an article to debunk the myth of the veggan Pythagoras. It’s partial truth, somebody who searches knows it, but remains the idol and the ultimage reference of vegans.
I’m not a veggan.
But to restore the truth: it is true that veggans suffers from deficiencies, for instance B12, but there are solutions for this. Eating some kind of food like kefir, spirulina, etc. And EVEN non veggans have this deficiency, and should care about it (but it’s much more alarming among veggans)
It depends the kind of diet, strictly veggan, or vegetarian with fishes, eggs, and other animal products.
I think it can be easily unhealthy to be stictly veggan, but being a big meat consumer is at least as dangerous for health, and that kind of thing is never said. We have to speak honestly, and impartially.
I would be easily an almost veggan myself, because I eat very few meat, but the political aspect of vegetarism and its excess disgust me. If vegetarism was only about food balance, I would be proudly vegetarian. That’s true that a lot of big meat eaters are intolerant, and a lot of veggans have the same intolerance.
I hate the way that animals are slaughtered nowadays. But everyone needs to have the choice of his diet, we need to make better the conditions of slaughter of the animals. It’s obvious. In the past, it was not so cruel. It’s also for our health: the more an animal suffer before its death, the more toxins he has in its meat.
Having been a vegan for ethical reasons for about the same time as you, Erika, I too gave up veganism. I discovered so many lies that were fed to me to convert me, inconsistencies, flawed and misinterpreted research, stupid memes … I lost my focus, concentration, memory, sex drive, energy, and hair. I felt socially isolated and depressed. I was diagnosed with adult ADHD. My cognitive ability declined. While vegan, I was a self-righteous, arrogant, insufferable, pious, know-it-all misanthropic twat – like many commenters here. Obsessed with being a good vegan, I was unproductive in all other areas of my life. Constantly hungry and with a demanding job, I spent all my spare hours and money trying to source ingredients and foods to satisfy my cravings. Eventually it transpired that I had joined a cult. I went and bought myself milk, eggs, a meat pie, gave up my hugely demanding (and polluting due to travel involved) job that paid for my expensive and harmful vegan obsession, and started an animal rescue. I feel good, work well, recovering slowly and never again willing to gamble my health.
Yes yes and yes. Thank you for having the courage to share your experience here.
You’re a queen. I agree with all of your arguments. Even 70 years ago, no one could function on a vegan “diet”. They are a bunch of spoiled brats that never had to work hard in their lives before.
Stumbled across this while looking for advice on nutrition for vegans, arrived through one of your other articles (which I found very helpful). And while I appreciate the fact that you are semi-trolling for half of this article, I think your interpretation of the phrase “as far as is possible and practicable” is completely untenable, and that since most of your argument hinges on it, your argument is untenable too.
As a couple of posters have pointed out, the fact that a moral principle is not precisely and objectively defined does not mean it is completely arbitrary. Governments all over the world have to make decisions about how much money to devote to healthcare, presumably based on a principle such as wanting to save people/improve their quality of life “as far as is possible and practicable”.
By your logic, one could argue that the fact governments do not devote a far greater proportion of their expenditure to healthcare, instead spending it on things like parks and street lights, means that they do not care about human health and therefore it would be morally equivalent for them to spend nothing on healthcare. But obviously this is not the case.
Following principles like this is always a tricky matter of deciding on a case-by-case basis through judgement, debate and evidence. However, this is not the same as ‘anything goes’. As for your ‘killing yourself’ example, preventing harm is not the same as doing anything – including causing yourself harm – to prevent harm. To return to health, most people don’t advocate organ harvesting healthy people (or themselves) to save multiple others. Doesn’t make them hypocrites if they say they want to help people.
Where you are right is that most vegans should be pro-organic food, growing their own vegetables, as well as anti-things which cause humans harm. But this is a call to action rather than a case for the abandonment of veganism!
PS It’s also worth pointing out that your almond milk example is in large part due to the absurd agricultural practices in California, which I agree every vegan -and person – should boycott but which are not intrinsic to almond production everywhere.
You will not solve this problem on the level it was created … nor for that matter will any of the governments you mentioned solve any of their problems that way, either.
Learn Holistic Belief Reprogramming. Then we can have a real conversation. Until then, my pointing out the absurdities of the vegan position is merely to make it absolutely clear:
You will not solve these problems with the mind that created them.
Either learn a new way of solving problems (HBR) or forget about it getting solved at all.
I agree with everything except the suicide part.
“Veganism is a way of living which seeks to exclude, as far as is possible and practicable, all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose.”
The “a way of living” part excludes it on account that being dead is not a way of living. Living is by definition allowed.
The logical conclusion for all vegans is thus not suicide, but living in self-sustaining communes, eating only the most efficiently growable plantfoods and using the bare minimum of resources to sustain their life.
Living is a continuum.
It is multi-interpretable at the least.
And considering if you ask vegans the question if they think it is ok to kill an animal if it threatened them or if they were in a position without food, they will almost universally agree to kill it under those circumstances, it is safe to assume the definition is intended to be interpreted that living is a granted premise.
Aka, living is the one arbitrary thing you can do to cause animal suffering, anything other than that you need to avoid it to the best of your ability. If you meet these criteria, which pretty much no vegans do, you are living by the vegan philosophy.
People can “live” and yet be close to death. I would not call it “living” by the end of my vegan diet because I was so weak and sleeping all the time, and my mind was so cloudy, that I could not accomplish normal functions. That to me is not “living.” That starts to become a “living death.”
That’s not really related to the suicide not being the logical conclusion of veganism issue though :P
To me it is. Suicide is a continuum. Living in poor health is not really living.
What an awesome article, Erika! Veganism is a mind-disease, and most of them are morally bankrupt. My brother is a “holier-than-though” + hypocritical vegan that I don’t really think I can speak to anymore.
Though I think it’s bogus, he said that the consumption of meat is one of the causes of all the world’s woes and the reason why people don’t have enough to eat around the globe (because of all the grain it takes to feed the livestock, and that it could be better used feeding people).
Yet, a few sentences later he callously admits that a pig’s life is more important than the life of a starving child, as well as children who are forced into sex slavery.
So vegans have brain-rot. Their moral compass is defective. How can vegans you use the argument of the “starving masses” and then turn around and say that a pig’s life is more important than those very people who are starving?
You know why people don’t like vegans? It’s not because they eat vegetables. Nobody gives a SH*T what they eat or don’t. It’s because of their “better than though” + hypocritical attitude that the mass majority is infested with like a cancer that rots their brain and heart from the inside out.
So well done, Erika! Well done!
P.S I’d love to hear your opinion on my a-hole brother’s comment how a pig matters more than a starving child. Where do vegans get this twisted idea from?
Interesting analysis,..it seems there are intractable opinions on both side of any issue. That does not make either conclusion invalid,..just more difficult to support.
Sorry “Shaki” your comment has been deleted. If you choose to come here and make abusive and factually incorrect comments, they will never, ever see the light of day. Get the fuck off my website. Thanks.
#paytodiscuss … the payment links are here: http://tapsmarter.com/eft-tapping-best-sellers/
Hi Erika, If you don’t care for veganism, why then have you put all this personal effort into trying hard however failing to disprove the positive benefits of veganism? If it is not worth the time of day you sure have put a lot of effort into attempting to debunk a beautiful way of life. Clearly us vegans get under your skin and you feel the need to justify your own position. MISSION ACCOMPLISHE!, Allow me to put this into simple terms so you can understand. If you try to put down something what ever it is be it a person, a philosophy, a value, an animal i.e. ANYTHNG you give the very thing you try to squash more power. So thank you for making us vegans stronger and even more united. Please respond so as we can continue to reflect on our practice and conclude once again that we are living a beautiful life. Thanks heaps.
Do you think parents should not be warned about the dangers of drowning and how to prevent it? I would imagine if you had the experience I did with veganism, you’d feel differently. But you all are simply not interested in listening to the experience most humans are having with a vegan diet. It’s a dangerous, dangerous diet. That is why it is worth my time to write about it. I’m still dealing with the consequences of those 15 months and the vegan movement “whitewashing” this bullshit.
You’re constantly saying, “you vegans” and refer to veganism as a cult but we are just a group of people who want (have now adopted the saying) “to do the least amount of harm”. You too are part of a “cult” if you want to look at it that way; carnism, the dogmatic religion based entirely off of violence in which the main belief system is, it is acceptable to kill animals and allow others to suffer so you can eat their flesh. You didn’t succeed as a vegan, so instead, you attack other vegans. I know plenty of other vegans who are thriving, just as I am. The idea is to do less harm and be happy and healthy to help others, be it people or animals. Your passive aggressive comments do nothing but show how bitter you are, there’s help for that but you’d rather point blame. Which is fine most people do, especially the kind of people QueenB was referring to. There’s many outreaches and Vegan support groups, where other vegans or vegetarians who want to make the step to plant based living, can find help, if they are not supporting their health properly. You seem like a type A personality, so what it looks like to a lot of people is that you’re really upset that you failed being vegan while millions of others are thriving. You had a bad experience but what you’re doing isn’t solving anything. animal activists have made great strides over the years in animal welfare, it’s a slow but we don’t give up. We have environmentalists (including UN researchers) who are trying to point out the issues about animal agriculture and its detrimental effects on greenhouse gasses in our atmosphere and the ever growing dead zones in our oceans, but too many people are willing to turn a blind eye. Our Amazon forests are disappearing for animal agriculture. Wild Horses are being captured and slaughtered for animal agriculture. Poor, starving kids and adults are dying every second because their third world country works hard to produce grain and soy for our animal agriculture, when they could be eating these crops to save their own. Slaughter house workers have the most dangerous jobs, having accidents that are fatal or crippling. Diseases such as mad cow and bird flu are spread through the shitty animal agriculture business and selfish human desires to eat their flesh. There’s the right way to live vegan and the wrong unhealthy way. Keep trying to argue your truth but you are truly the one not solving anything.
How many times do I need to repeat myself before ANY of you are going to listen? YOU ARE NOT GOING TO SOLVE THIS PROBLEM AT THIS LEVEL, EVER. YOU ARE WASTING YOUR OWN TIME AND MY TIME. When the fuck are you people, yes YOU PEOPLE, going to be open to an idea that could actually work and willing to do the work to bring it to fruition? I am so fucking sick of this endless loop of “conversation.”
LISTEN PEOPLE, STOP FUCKING TALKING, AND START LISTENING TO ME.
If veganism was the real answer, why are there 10x more ex vegans than vegans?
Really? The majority of people turned off from veganism are turned off within the first year. Afterwards, the percentage decreases drastically. It’s obviously from the social stigma attached to being vegan and the appeal of eating food one has eaten their entire life. A very small percentage quit from a poor diet, and those that do quit in that time likely didn’t put effort in.
You talk about Human empathy and all but you do not know how this corrupt system works. You say that Vegan crops hurt animals ??? well most of the world’s vegan crops goes to innocent animals on death row. So animal agriculture is actually causing suffering on top suffering, more deforestation and the methane from animal waste because of animal agriculture is destroying the ozone layer. And a lot of oatmeal, breads, and pastas can go to hungry people in 3rd world countries instead of innocent animals on farms. And to hydrate the animals it takes massive amounts of water to make. So there is the environmental perspective now let’s look at ethics. I understand at first I was angry at the Vegan message too. I told Vegans you can’t make me go Vegan and that my choices are mine only lol. But I made it only about me and it was very egocentric and self-centered of me. So I eventually opened my eyes to include my circle of compassion to the animals that are abused, raped, enslaved, and killed in the meat, dairy, and egg industries. I will give you a pass to eat meat if you are living with the Inuit, since they ACTUALLY eat for survival, since there is no vegetation in the arctic. Veganism means to cause the least amount of suffering to animals and the environment. We have the highest rates of childhood obesity in the USA…does that concern you at all ??? And that is linked to the disgusting standard American diet that is filled with unhealthy animal saturated fats and cholesterol. Also many slave-owners thought God gave them the right to have dominion over African slaves…does it make it right ?? no it does not. It is easy to not care when you are not the victim.
I meant to say. *And to hydrate the animals it takes massive amounts of water to make sure they are well off. Even though on the inside they are experiencing psychological and physiological torture from these concentration camps.
I am eating animal products for survival since my health cratered on a vegan diet. I have not become obese. Where is the empathy for humans?
Well you have not because obese but I have empathy because I seen many people suffer because of what the food industry puts out as junk that is readily available and convenient. There are many Vegans who live to their elderly years so you will not starve. Your body was detoxing itself and your mind probably went back into the cravings of what it had been used to eating. It is mainly psychological and also societal pressure that makes people go back to their old ways. It is not all about you..okay. You can’t deny the main cause of obesity and other deadly health complications…which is animal based products.
You’re not listening.
Well you have not became obese*. Typos are annoying. But I recommend you to watch Earthlings and the best speech you will ever hear by Gary Yourofsky. You could be eating dog or cat meat at a restaurant and you would have no idea.
You’re not listening. A vegan diet destroyed my health. There is nothing anyone is going to say or do that is going to convince me that I should sacrifice my own health to “solve” this problem. Vegans got so offended when I suggested suicide as an answer, yet they would have me commit effective suicide on a vegan diet. Until you all listen to the counterarguments and integrate them in a higher level solution, you might as well bang your head on concrete for all the good you are doing.
And one more thing…..animals are NOT machines. To support the meat, dairy, and egg industries means to support slavery, rape and confinement. My ancestors were treated like animals when they were brought to the new world from Africa. I don’t want to be a hypocrite to their suffering and support the meat, egg, and dairy industries.
You’re not listening. Eating junk animal based food is slow suicide.Well I hope you don’t develop any cancer or atherosclerosis. Because your chances are higher as a non-Vegan. The FDA loves to put carcinogens in processed meats and cheeses.
A vegan diet was fast suicide. I was in very bad shape after only 15 months.
Lo and behold, I added animal products back to my diet, and many symptoms began reversing within a few weeks.
You are not going to solve this problem on the level it was created. Either learn a new way, or shut the fuck up.
Nutrient deficiencies ??? Do you live in the stone ages ??? Fruits and vegetables have more nutrients than milk, eggs, and meat, don’t twist it. Where do you think the abused cows get their nutrients from ?? They get it from plant sources, if they did not then they will be deficient. We live in a society where Vegans can get supplements for B12 and get healthy produce filled with cancer fighting antioxidants and nutrients. And Vegan or non-Vegan a multi-vitamin supplement is good for anyone. So your argument is invalid. So stop promoting animal abuse and the cause of obesity !!!
Antwan, I’m sorry you are cut off. You are demonstrating the very inability to process complex cognitive material that I am describing in the articles. There is no point taking to vegans because their malnutrition renders them incapable of a two-sided conversation. Please don’t comment anymore, they will go to spam. Thanks.
I’m a registered dietitian. I work with children and adults who can no longer sustain a vegan diet. Sugar is the cause of obesity. When a mother looses a child due to lack of vitamin k or b12 because of the vegan propaganda, to see them go through that, nothing on this earth hurts more than at that moment! Their pain! Their deep pain! They would give up a cow to have that child back!
This whole article had such a resentful, insulting attitude towards veganism. I understand that there are militant vegans out there, but it sounded like there was no acknowledgement whatsoever to praise the accomplishments of vegans who have prompted legal action and policies that combat cruelty and promote compassion. A lot of vegans may come off as angry, but it could actually be frustration due to rescuing and rehabilitating animals that have been severely abused and neglected by industries tied to animal agriculture. Have you ever met a goat who had to have his leg amputated because the live market bound his legs so tightly that it caused a maggot filled infection. Albie was rescued by Jenny Brown, not because she was some “cognitive deficient…soap box…irrational…(or whatever other insult)…vegan”; she did it because she saw Albie as more than just a thing, a piece of meat, an object, or a product. She saw him as an individual. It is frustrating. For various reasons. Laws protecting farm animals are so limited. Even if it’s “humanely raised”, “family owned”, or “farm to table”. They are all capable of cruelty. Lexi was rescued from a farm to table operation which was part of a culinary program for students. Lexi’s mother was forced to have FOUR litters in a year. That is the maximum number of litters a pig can have in a year. Her mother just gave up after her last litter. She’d lie in the corner, ignore her piglets, she was pushed past her limit. Lexi was the runt, and that’s the only reason the farmer agreed to give her up.
So wouldn’t you be frustrated too if you had to see such cruelty?
You made a negative generalization about “99+%” of vegans, but these are my friends and colleagues you are talking about. People who have made such a difference in the lives of animals AND people. A lot of them volunteer, and it’s purely out of love and altruism. They work so hard making sure the animals’ needs are taken care of, they are mucking barns, loading trucks, out in the sun all day scooping 15lb cow pies into wheel barrows, etc….
From personal experience, it is hard work! It’s farm work. We do it for the animal’s sake, not our own.
I sincerely implore you to take the time to watch the video below. You kept repeating in your blog that veganism won’t solve anything, but it already has. Gene Baur is president and co-founder of Farm Sanctuary, a non-profit farm animal rescue and advocacy organization founded in 1986. They have prompted the Downed Animal Act, banning cruel confinement by aiding the passing of Prop 2 in California, and defeated proposed “ag-gag” bills which threatened investigations of agriculture facilities in Arizona, Colorado, Indiana, Kentucky, New Hampshire, North Carolina, Pennsylvania, Tennessee, and Vermont. The list goes on, but you can see their milestones on farmsanctuary.org
Let me repeat myself again … This problem will not be solved with the mind that created it. There is nothing to “laud” about the vegan movement. While the intention of many may be a positive one, the approach is absolutely doomed to failure. And people who actually care about animals do not keep “beating a dead horse.”
“the human brain is the most complex and orderly arrangement of matter in the universe.” – Isaac Asimov (1920-1992), professor of biochemistry at Boston University, USA. (descriptive of that of all intelligent life in the cosmic community of intelligent life).
The cosmic community of intelligent life translates into empathy and compassion (and cosmic genealogy), settling the question of why the Universe and intelligent life exist.
As Universe forelaws empathy and compassion constitute a cause, norm and way forward on all planets with intelligent life – transitioning humankind none too soon to concerted global cooperation in eradicating war, terrorism, and racism – and in coming to grips with climate change. Part and parcel of naturalist Nature (everything is connected to everything else), the forelaws principle and cosmic genealogy coalesce as intelligent life philosophy, cosmology and the common good.
Every 230 million years Earth, its inhabitants and the Sun (our star) orbit the center of the Milky Way Galaxy. The Milky Way is the galactic home of humankind and untold numbers of fellow counterparts – many far more advanced than humankind in appreciation of intelligent life as a gift with indefinable promise and potential both locally . . . institutionalizing empathy, compassion and the common good . . . and cosmically . . . eternalizing empathy, compassion and the common good.
Cosmic genealogy – empathy and compassion made eternal by intelligent life – takes place in a setting where no two star systems with intelligent life in terms of solar radiation are exactly the same, which explains the phenomenon of “races” (before amalgamation) in the makeup of intelligent life. Climate change addressed by optimizing planet atmospheric and surface reflectivity of solar radiation (referred to as planetary albedo) for benign/relative stability in weather and climate – i.e. albedoism – describes the rationale and transition to united albedo regions.
•”We must move forward together, as one, in a renewed spirit of fraternity and solidarity, cooperating generously for the common good.” – Pope Francis, speaking to the United States Congress.
•”The historian of science may be tempted to claim that when paradigms change, the world itself changes with them.” – from The Structure of Scientific Revolutions (Thomas S. Kuhn, 1962, 2nd ed. 1970).
United Albedo Regions (climate change), together with human activism in cosmic genealogy, will occupy special places in the coming age of empathy and compassion on Earth.
Robert E. Cobb
I just wonder whether you were as obnoxious during your vegan experiment as most vegans commenting on your blog?
I’d really like to know whether this attitude is personality or vegan related.
Yes I was equally obnoxious. I am persuaded that for most people it causes malnutrition-induced imbalances in emotions and cognition.
This is a very sad article to read.
I would like to start by offering my condolences for you loss of compassion.
It must be a hot world being formed of ao much ice.
Erika, you seem to massively miss the point of being vegan. The point being to reduce the suffering of other beings (because believe it or not animals are actually living beings with a right to exist outside of slavery and exploitation), essentially that can only be a positive thing.
Being vegan, i have found, increases personal well being, balance and health.
You just have to be commited to stepping outside of funding and supporting an industry of death.
To thrive on a vegan diet you need to ensure you get all the vitamins you need. It is only lack of education that lets some vegans down in that regard.
I have noticed a huge rise in the amount of vegans over the past couple of years. The younger generations are really taking to it, i am only 27. This is really positive, not only for them, but for all of us.
Veganism, while difficult to get right (most things worth doing are) is a postive and practical solution to a world gone mad.
When i turned vegan i started to notice all the ridiculous uses of animals in most products, its crazy and a little disturbing. I mean why put milk in crips?
Or beetle poo on your sweets so they are shiny!?
There was once a need for meat, that need is long gone and rightly so.
If you find vegans a little intense or confrontational, just remember:
Vegans are against animal exploitation, we actively campaign with our everyday actions to reduce the suffering of others.
By eating meat, consuming copious amounts of animal producs and wearing them, you are actively funding the industry of suffering that we actively seek to reject and reduce.
You are contributing to the problem but you can be part of the solution.
I never aggresively campaign people, friends or family. Rather i let my clear happiness, peace and lovely food do my campaigning for me. A lot of my family and friends have followed suit into peaceful healthy living.
Reduce your anger it is terribly unattractive.
Just a final note
You are very average.
Reducing suffering includes reducing human suffering for the many humans who have tried a vegan diet and found it to be devastating to their health. You all just keep preaching on, not listening to a word that is said, and veganism will continue to be the massive failure that it is. Your lack of compassion for humans is shocking and obliterates the integrity of your claimed message.
Sorry erika, i have major compassion for humans.
Whilst i agree some peoples may have specific alements, conditiins that mean they cant be fully vegan. I am not sure which though.
I think that my choice to go vegan was motivated by personal well being firstly.
Secondly and more importantly, compassion for all beings. We can not keep on devastating the world like we are. Animal agriculture is a major environmental issue.
By reducing this we can move towards a more sustainable way of living.
The sheer bitterness and anger of your article debases any credibility it may have had.
Take your odd twisted emotion out of it and it may be worth reading.
People with divisive hatred and a lack of inclusiveness such as yours are the reason there is ao much war and separation in Society.
Why cant you say
“I tried to be vegan and I failed, if others want to go ahead and be happy vegans that do not fail, let them be. My failing was my own and i will not seek to persecute others for their choices”
Dont try and debunk the positive efforts of others because of your failings.
You are, very sadly, coming across as a bitter needy attention seeker.
Agriculture is a major issue, full stop. Whether it involved animals or not. And as we have already discussed here, countless animals are killed by vegan products. Vegan superfoods also regularly decimate native populations’ ability to feed themselves. You want this problem solved? Then be open to a new way of solving it. Learn how to reprogram the subconscious mind. Unless you reprogram the belief that runs this planet “kill or be killed,” “we all die in the end,” etc. – a diet is a band-aid. And an ineffective and destructive band-aid at that. Cheers. I need to go attend to other things.
The point is…
Veganism does not collapse in a pile of contradiction and hypocrisy.
There are issues with all things in life, veganism is not perfect, however there are many more issues with the meat and animal exploitation industry.
Anyway erika, you clearly have formed a very intense opinion on the issue and your mind is fully closed.
Be peaceful and stop judging others for their efforts to be good.
Look, you’re the one who came here judging me. If you want to “live and let live,” then don’t judge those of us who tried veganism and found it to be unsustainable and indeed damaging. I still have way more white hair on my head, it probably accelerated aging by 10 years and I am not exaggerating. Very frustrating that vegans misrepresented the diet to me.
Yes I have an intense opinion. Veganism is not solving anything nor is it ever going to solve anything. You want this problem solved? Learn a new way of solving problems. Band-aids and superficial solutions never do solve anything. Ever. In this case, like many others, it’s moving problems around. That’s not to say people don’t have good intentions. Good intentions are not going to solve this because it’s a double bind. You have to go outside the box, outside the linear, to solve this. And my extreme frustration at this point is I haven’t found one single vegan yet, not ONE SINGLE ONE, who is open to a new way of solving this.
So you all just keep banging your heads against the wall, you’ve got as many people abandoning veganism every day as adopting it … it’s never going anywhere … and you have the nerve to come here and attack me for choosing not to sacrifice my health for this reckless and ridiculous diet. So yes I’m annoyed. I have to deal with people like you almost every single day here. Why don’t you stop preaching and start listening for once?
Zach Bolton, I quote your own words:
“I have noticed a huge rise in the amount of vegans over the past couple of years. The younger generations are really taking to it, i am only 27. This is really positive, not only for them, but for all of us.”
A number of my generation, the Gen Xers, have done veganism too, in our younger years. I did mine in my 20s, and then again in my 40s (due to emotional control issues and a reappearance of disordered eating patterns) unfortunately. I learned what really happened as a result from two, two-year stints with veganism: tiredness, weakness, hormonal problems, emaciation, depression, bloating, abdominal pain, gassiness, dental decay, etc., all which went away upon resuming red meat, eggs, fish, etc.
So, most of these young people, including probably even yourself, Zach, will find themselves in similar health predicaments, once the thrill of joining the vegan herd wears off and the need to meet the demands of adult life and child bearing sets in. You are young still, with a lot of life yet still to learn and experience. It is good to practice your idealism and zest for life, and I can see how veganism may appear to meet a generation’s needs in this area. This is not new. It has been done before. The Boomers had their macrobiotic diets, for example…from which they lived and learned…and like veganism, macrobiotics was a great way to make the shift away from processed foods and cleanse the body, but was unsustainable for the long term.
The recent converts to veganism at least have had a basis of having at least some Omega 3s, EPA/DHA, and fat soluble vitamins. So perhaps some of you may be able to feel good for a few months or years on a plants-based diet. You just don’t know the long term effects upon your beings yet.
May I ask how long you have been a vegan?
Many vegans who have been vegan only a short amount of time insist that it works for them and for everyone. They simply do not have the long term experience to back up their claims.
For those of us who have given it our honest attempts, we now know better. I for one, read the China Study several years ago, and while I did not have the ability at that time to refute it on an intellectual basis, I knew from my own personal bodily experience that the diet did not work for me, and would never work for me.
Indeed there are those individuals who can somehow maintain sound emotional, physical and mental health while eating vegan over the long term. But I did not find that experience true for me. And to those who respond saying, “Well, you didn’t do it right!” Until you know my system and how I actually did eat as a vegan, until you truly know what it takes to nourish my individual body and are able to tell me exactly how to do it right for my body, I find that response of not doing it right to be simply a defensive reaction without much substance.
Yep I felt great for a couple months. I even still felt good while my hair was turning white. That’s because my body was cannibalizing itself for nutrients. Then you hit the wall where the reserves are gone. Then things can get very dark very fast.
Love this article Erika, but can I ask you a question? It is my opinion that meat eating is not the problem, rather is the idea of greed and over consumption (of everything, including meat) that is the true cause of all the problems. What do you think about it?
Hi George, thanks for the question. I’d say consumption of every kind is the problem, don’t you think? That’s the fundamental result of a belief system where death is inevitable and everything wears out over time … the kill or be killed model of the world. We could change it by reprogramming the subconscious mind. That’s a huge undertaking. I would need a lot of people supporting the effort for us to do that.
You’re smart, so you could come up with an infinite number of reasons to not be a vegan. I’m not gonna argue with you.
It’s simpler than that. Just take responsibility for your choices.
If you’re OK with cows having their throats slit just so you can please your tastebuds, that’s up to you.
You’re well aware that are countless healthy vegans even on high performance sports, and they’re all doing fine.
But as long as you don’t care about animals, there’s no reason for you to be a vegan.
You’re the one who doesn’t care about animals. If you did care and actually wanted the problem solved, you wouldn’t continue using a strategy that ensures the world hates vegans more and more and more :) You’re far more interested in being self-righteous and holier than thou than you are in the welfare of animals. Which is why the world hates vegans. Take care.
Sorry for the typos… Passion before spelling…
I am ex-Amish. Also ex- Jehovahs Witness and ex-born again Cristian in that order. What I learned is that veganism just like any extreme baseless belief disguised as the ultimate personal sacrifice for the greater good is usually responsible for doing much more harm than good. My experience growing up Amish where generations of my family lived entirely off the land taught me to appreciate nature in a way vegans never will. Our animals gave us life because we gave them life. We were a part of the circle. If we left our animals to fend for themselves they died horrible deaths from parasites, diseases, lack of food from overpopulation injuries etc. We killed quickly and humanely. We wasted no part of the animal. We are animals too. If one of us accidentally became trapped in the hog pen the hogs are us alive. Animals and nature are beautiful and precious not just for the god parts. It’s also the power of animals, the way carnal nature expresses itself that is truly amazing. Vegans live in lala land. They cling to the cause from over sensitivity to the realities of life, from fear of death, from fear not belonging and from fear of not being noticed. The vegans I’ve known have all suffered from eating disorders in the past. They don’t truly love nature because they are unwilling to participate in it. We need to eradicate the manufacture of animals but the humans slaughter of animals is us participating in natures magical circle. Trust me vegan your cute little ideas about nature will crumble fast when you have to live in it. Try telling a wolf not to eat you in the wilderness. Try not eating meet when you get stranded by yourself in a jungle. Try being in a third world country and practice being a vegan. Be Amish and be a vegan. Animals will always kill. We are animals. The difference is we can HUMANELY kill. This is worth fighting for. Not eating meat is a narrow view of the beauty of our planet. In the meantime vegans should really assess their childhood traumas, deep insecurities, and subconscious fears so you can move on to real solutions for abused animals.
love this comment
It has been a year since you wrote this and chances are slim you will ever see this reply, but I feel an intense need to thank you for writing this comment.
This is a topic I have never felt understood on by anyone i’ve ever encountered, least of all myself. ‘Childhood traumas, deep insecurities, and subconscious fears’ are exactly the cause of my personal veganity. I was raised from a young age around a strange quasi-religeous subculture of vegans my mother has since apologized for exposing me to(though i was, about 3 years in, quite excited when we learned the word vegan, so i could expedite the explanation of vegetarian, plus a bunch of other stuff… Until I learned the connotations that would follow) Unlike my family of ex-vegans, i have been unable to bring myself to go back further than vegetarian without really knowing why, despite never having had any ethical or emotional connection to any vegan philosophy.(in it’s stead, feelings of distance from nature and other people, as well as shame at the conceited high-horsed views of the group I was associated with) And in light of the self confessed knowledge from those vegans that an entirely plant based universally nutritional diet has likely been environmentally unviable for a large portion of human history.
It has been emotional intlstability and as you say, oversensitivity and fear that cloud the root of my protein eschewing ways and I hadn’t even considered the depth of the connection between the two until you pointed it out.
Sorry to waffle on(i do that constantly and insufferably, was the a tendency to over-share) but your comment affected me more than i expected to be made to feel anything on a comment thread I expected to devolve immediately into ‘nu-uh’s and ‘ya-huh’s.
I find no difference in boycotting meat to save animals, and boycotting books to save trees.
I have seen a vegan condemn those that rejected that path, just to be confronted by a Christian doing the same.
I have no hatred of any man’s views on life. We are a part of this world, and it is only natural to consume and produce. The question can not be “What are we killing?”, but “What are we allowing to live?” No matter how great one’s zeal is for love, if it is spoken in hatred, all credibility is lost.
I wish all the very best in this life, and the next.
I stumbled upon this by chance. Why are you so angry Erika? You are acting like it is such a court of law and trying to ‘win’ or something. Why is it your aim to find and point out any tiny contradictions of vegans? They are trying to do less harm, and do contribute to less killing of animals (which you must agree on) so why can’t you leave it at that. The way you are trying to undermine people’s ethical intentions by stating the ‘facts’ seems contradictory as you then say openly that your research source is google. Funnily, the ‘us versus them’ attitude you mentioned seems to be very much your mindset. Personally I will never feel comfortable being a part of the dairy and meat industry. Of course I’d love everyone to agree, however, I know that you know the facts and will make up your own mind, like everyone else. See the good in people being vegan, or even don’t and ignore it. But I think it’s really odd you want to write an article critising people’s moral choices, when they are choices that do are trying to be less harmful.
I was angry. Wouldn’t you be angry if a group of people “whitewashed” a diet and it cost you your health and a whole lot else? I’m not a big fan of lying, and vegan lies are not any better than any other dishonesty out there.
But that’s not true. I could just as easily say people following your diet are liars. Lying is really intentionally saying/doing something you know is misleading. That’s not the case here. You believe eating animal produce is essential, just as I believe it is not. You made the decision to become vegan, you weren’t forced by a bunch of liars, as you imply. So your an ex vegan – I get it, but quite extreme how you now see vegans as your arch nemeses. Your writing exudes such bitterness and negativity. If your blog is meant to promote holistic living and healing, your angry tone is not really the right fit.
I only became vegan because I was fed a bunch of baloney by people who claimed that everyone can be a vegan. Every human cannot be a vegan. We have different genetics and those genetics frankly favor eating animal products. I find most vegans to be incapable of acknowledging counterarguments and gray areas, and I believe that to be for most of them a symptom of malnutrition.
Let me be very blunt … if you vegans want this problem solved, you’re in the right place. You’re only focusing on the wrong perspective.
If vegans want this problem solved, they will have to learn Holistic Belief Reprogramming. It is the only available path for solving this problem. And it is a massive, massive project that I absolutely refuse to take on by myself, without massive support.
Nor would veganism be my goal in such a project. I find veganism to be a joyless and constricting way to live. I would aim much higher, to be able to manifest fish and loaves out of thin air without harming anything or anyone. To be able to live without eating at all … those are lofty, inspiring goals.
Judgmentally poring over food labels on a regular basis and avoiding restaurants and other activities is not an answer. Not only is it not solving anything whatsoever, it’s joyless.
Aim higher. Learn a new way of solving problems. Surely you all must realize it’s not an accident so many of you have come to this website. Look beyond these articles and get why you’re really here … https://erikaawakening.com/peace
Do you see tiny contradictions?
Why are veggans so angry against non veggans?
Hi Erika! Ive been vegan for 2 months for all the right reasons ethics health and environment yadayada. But after the first month i started breaking out everywhere, feeling depressed, and clearly quickly become nutrient deficient. I ate perfectly I have always been into nutrtion so I made sure I was getting everything like vitamins, nutrients, omega 3s and just everything. Its a very well balanced vegan diet. I worked out the other day though, and couldnt do half what i normally would and still havent recovered. My muscles kill! This never happened before maybe because I actually absorbed animal protein much more effectively than plant protein. I have just learnt all about this. Reading your articles help understand the issue with taurine and other nutrients. My skin breakouts happen only when im zinc deficient(white nails too) and ive ever been taking a zinc supplement. Its not helping. I have celiac disease which is a malabsorption conditon where I cant eat gluten. Grains in excess period dont work for me actually. I was better on a more paleo diet. Were all different but majority of people cant do vegan long term. I have been reading and researching both sides of the debate and maybe some can do it for years but most experience health problems. The daili lama was veg for like 10 years but stopped because he had to get gallbladder surgery because he ate too much nuts. He agreed its ethical but not very sustainable in our human forms. The doctor ordered him to eat some fish. So based on what I see happening in my own body and the stories of others, Im adding eggs and fish back next week and then probably meat too. Your right going vegan isnt going to solve the worlds issues. I felt like a hypocrite the other day because I realized my whole car interior is made from leather. But seriously everything affects the animals! Like you said theres slave wage children in china making our clothes and probably most things anyone owns came from some form of suffering or death. I read one cow could feed a family for a whole year. So thats one animals life sacrificed. If you had plants for a whole year, the harvesting and farming of them would kill thousands and thousands! So how can there truly be an ethical diet. Do you feel much better now with animal products back in your diet? I have a suspicion if I dont fix these problems I already see happening, I could be in for trouble!
Thank you so much for this article, for anyone with an objective open mind, you can cleary see what she is saying. She tried it, it didnt work. She didn’t fail at it, but it failed her. People stop believing that what you do is the best most highly moral way to live and then judge others who do not agree. The vegan community could be a beautiful one but like Erika, I see the anger and judgement so much and I’ve only been a 2 month veg. Im over it already, these people seems crazy. If you do it for health reasons, cool! We need to eat more plants, but not just plants. I think meat is healthier than grains to be honest. Maybe I am bias because I have a gluten issue in my body, but many people do. And plants alone have never sustained a civilization. We cannot be ignorant to our own ancestory and genetics. We evolved with meat, so it is what it is. Our bodies now desire and utilize it and that is just how it is. We can hope for the ideology of a perfect world, but thats all it is, an ideology. Everyone will never go vegan. Never. As much as many wish that could be true.
Yes welcome to the club of “failed” vegans. I love the ideals of veganism, but until they actually make it workable, it ain’t gonna work. We don’t shove millions of years of evolution under the rug. For now, we need to put on our own oxygen mask first … and then think WAY more creatively about how to solve these problems.
Thanks for sharing your experience.
Erika dear girl, your area of expertise is clearly in the use of the English language and writing, for which I applaud you, but your content is so unbelievably shallow, blinkered and unresearched as to be laughable. If people respond to your judgemental, insensitive diatribe angrily it is hardly surprising. Perhaps consider a way of living without a title for you to needlessly attack, that passively removes through ‘supply and demand’ even one defenceless pig per year from the disgusting mechanical production line that is ‘intensive meat production’ and leave it there. You may be very good at spinning words, but that is all you got dear! maybe you are a politician or a lawyer as you seem to lack depth and have no conceivable connect between heart and mind, just a shallow self opinionated blinkered ability to attack, for no good reason or with any positive intention, other than a palpable enjoyment of the language.
It is pointless to discuss the points that you made because you are attacking personal choice to defend personal choice that allows no personal choice for defenceless beings, with insipid reason. But what I would say is that if you think that the average American diet is not leaving millions of people suffering from lack of proper nutrition compared to a considered diet consisting of only plant based foods then perhaps you should be thinking a little more clearly and outside of your seemingly rather self satisfied little box dear.
It would appear that you are talking about yourself.
Ex-vegan here. Was doing it for environmental reasons, quit being a vegan, well, for environmental reasons.
I used to live in North American but now living in a developing country in Asia. Food source here is really either you eat what you can get, pay a large sum of money to buy overpriced imported vegan food, or starve and die. I choose the first.
Anyways, I have been under personal attacks from vegan/vegetarian and newly turned vegan/vegetarian friends. I personally don’t care about animal suffering, having to read their annoying comment on my Facebook is torturing enough.
Your argument about bees got me thinking.
Where I live grows a lot of rice, and they are exported to North America and Europe. I bet non of those vegans have seen what the living condition of the rice farmers and livestock here is like. Water buffaloes are FORCED to plow the rice patties! Animal cruelty! Farmers forced to sell their rice for cheap because they have to sell to one big corporation or get nothing for their hard labor, not cruel according to vegans. So, is rice vegan after all?
I’m sure they enjoy eating rice from Asia, but I bet they don’t know that some rice farmers can’t even afford to buy rice.
To me, being a vegan is luxury. Only people that are in wealthy developed countries can afford to live whatever lifestyle they want. For most people in the world, especially Asia, where over population is s big problem, you literally have no choice but eat whatever you can put your hands on.
Right, you make great points illuminated by your international experience. This is one of many reasons why I think vegans are barking up the wrong proverbial tree.
Now if they would learn the skills I am teaching in these videos and expand them, then we could make progress: https://erikaawakening.com/peace
I am a vegan and an animal rights activist and am currently living in New Zealand; originally from Colorado.
I found your article because I googled “vegan philosophy” and this came up. I wasn’t very impressed with it and thought it to be another weak argument defending animal exploitation and cruelty. If you’re not a vegan, you support animal exploitation (and cruelty, because cruelties in the industry run rampant and many are considered common practice).
First off, let me say that as an animal rights activist, I have seen a lot of truly horrific things. I have done a lot of undercover investigations. I have been to caged egg farms, piggerys, dairy farms, beef, lamb and poultry farms. I’ve met with farmers. I’ve been to slaughterhouses. I am a vegan because of this. I think it would be hypocritical to investigate these farms (and rescue animals, as I work closely with a couple sanctuaries) and then turn around and go buy a block of cheese or a packet of steaks, which is a product of those farms.
The vegan philosophy is that you can live a life free from the exploitation of other animals. I truly believe that one day, the enslavement and exploitation of animals for food, products and entertainment will be a thing of the past. The world view is already shifting. Environmentally, it has to be because it’s simply unsustainable for everyone to continue to consume the several kilos of meat the average meat-eater eats a week.
As far as the animals… they have no rights when they are in this industrialized system. They are seen as commodities. They are not recognized as the sentient beings they are. Have you ever been to a slaughterhouse? Have you ever stood and looked into the eyes of an animal who knew that death was coming and did not want to die? None of the animals want to die. Many people who have never been confronted with the industry don’t realize how much of a crisis it is. Even “good” farms have cruelties that are considered common practice. For example, it’s not cost-effective to offer pain relief when bulls are dehorned or chicks debeaked. Bobby calves are tossed into trucks because they’re sent to the slaughterhouse when they’re so young (only days old- some still have wet navels) and are weak and wobbly on their feet; it would take way more time to let them walk into the truck so instead the workers toss them like bags of sugar. All animals suffer in animal agriculture. It’s truly heart-breaking.
Yep, bees and other small animals like mice are going to die as a result of agriculture practices. It’s not a perfect system whatsoever. Humans also use heaps of plastics that go into our oceans which kill marine life. Humans destroy forests for our suburbs, destroying animals in the process. Humans are essentially parasites. We do a great harm to the planet and it’s inhabitants. I mean, just being a modern society has resulted in many species going extinct or becoming endangered. Personally I see a massive collapse of the system approaching in 50 years. We have done so much damage to our planet in such a short amount of time… It’s truly shocking.
I will continue to be vegan and continue my activism work and will continue spreading awareness of the industry that kills billions of animals for human consumption. Many people don’t know where their food comes from. It’s easy to sit on our computers and diss vegans and laugh about animal cruelty. But when you actually go to those farms and slaughterhouses, you will see that it’s an urgent crisis and it’s no laughing matter.
I grow my own vegetables and do not use pesticides in my garden. All my fruit is organic and from local farms in my area that I have been to. I try to minimise any and all animal cruelty in my life. It’s very much possible. But alas, with our global human population at 7 billion and growing, animals will inadvertently suffer on some level, even if animal agriculture ceases to exist.
Good for you. Good luck getting the rest of the planet to join you when you’re not addressing the very good reasons why people are not vegan, and why so many vegans go back to eating meat.
The vegan movement is only getting bigger! More people are making the connection and many of the vegans I know have been so for 20+ years.
Can I ask you what you ate when you were vegan? And what your daily eating habits were like?
I ate whole foods, and quite a variety. I also tried to fix the numerous health problems with supplements. Didn’t even come close to working. Most people’s genetics simply cannot support a vegan diet. So I would highly recommend you all learn how to tap to transform things at a deeper level. Otherwise it’s going to be two steps forward, two steps back indefinitely.
This is a good place to start: https://erikaawakening.com/peace … it’s a huge project and right now I’m focused on other priorities. I felt depressed for a while as my tapping seemed futile, but now my efforts are paying off big time in the rise of Bernie Sanders.
What I don’t want to hear is vegans continuing to bitch about this without doing something that would actually work: Holistic Belief Reprogramming.
Megan, yes, the exploitation of animals in commercial animal agriculture is horrible. And so is the exploitation of nature in commercial mechanized plant agriculture. But you are still eating plants produced by mechanized agriculture? If so, why? Why would one focus on the abuses to animals without the abuses to the planet in totality?
It is possible to focus on small scale humane animal and plant agriculture. Buy from local organic farmers. Reduce or eliminate mechanically-harvested grains. Have backyard chickens and eat their eggs. Humanely raise your own animals for meat and slaughter humanely. There are methods for doing so.
Seriously, I don’t believe we may reduce our cruel footprints upon the Earth by becoming vegans without focusing on alternatives to mechanized, industrialized plant agriculture.
You should aim your feeling of unfair towards capitalists not us meat eaters. Humane farming system can reduce animal cruelty. Just because there are animals being tortured somewhere out there doesn’t mean everyone has to stop eating meat.
You do not have to be a vegan to care about animals or be an animal activist!! Nobody wants to see abuse, torture or cruelty towards animals ! I know many private farmers that treat their animals wonderfully!! Vegans never seem to talk about these farmers it’s always pointing out the worst of the worst of factory farming ! To say someone condones cruelty because they are not vegan is an atrocious comment and judgement to make on people you don’t even know ! There are many factors that make up a persons character besides their diet! You can choose be vegan for ethical reasons if you want but Its not a historic , scientific , biological or genetic choice! We have been omnivores from the dawn of time !
I’ve recently been under so much fire for my decision to eat meat. I cannot believe what some people are like. I literally feel like a criminal for trying to live a normal healthy life as an omnivore, which as a species, is what we are. So it’s nice to see that others have the right idea Erika and are also aware of the fundamental flaws in the vegan community. Also, I’d like to add that even if every human did choose to become vegan, we’d still need to kill for meat in order to feed our beloved pets such as cats and dogs. Or perhaps vegans would rather see a cat or dog starve to death to aid their noble cause. One thing I have learned about vegans, is that no matter how much you counter their supposed argument with the logic of fundamental facts of life, they still insist on repeating the same nonsensical sentences.
Yes I’ve found it very frustrating to attempt to converse with most of them. There are some vegans out there who are more open-minded. An effective solution to anything has to take into account and offer workable options to address the counter-arguments. Veganism has failed to do that.
The vegan diet wasn’t killing you, YOUR vegan diet was killing you.
It seems clear to me that during your year of veganism, you failed to educate yourself sufficiently on what your body needed to run and you’re blaming your personal failure on veganism.
You can come up with any and every argument under the sun against veganism and some of the points you make are quite debate worthy. But your agenda clearly isn’t to better the world. I’d like to know what you’re doing to make the world a more peaceful place. Since we vegans, aren’t doing enough, to your standard.
From a psychological stand point, your strategy to derail the philosophy of veganism, comes directly from your experience and a place of guilt and I don’t want you to suffer a life of guilt.
This is what I posted on Facebook today.
My articles about quitting veganism continue to draw a lot of commentary, much of it quite hateful and abusive.
The thing is, I actually share vegans’ ideal of the end of death of sentient beings on this planet. It was my sharing of that ideal that led me to try the diet in the first place.
Where I differ with vegans is that I don’t believe there is any principled way to argue that killing traditional livestock is any different from numerous other forms of killing that most vegans accept … such as abortion, killing plants, killing bees and fish and other small animals with pesticides, and a long list of other institutionalized ways of killing.
I do not believe we can be certain that obtaining various classic vegan “superfoods” from exotic lands causes less harm than killing one cow nearby.
I do not believe we can argue that killing one cow that feeds hundreds is “worse” than drinking almond milk that results in countless deaths of bees and other small critters. How do you argue that one life is more valuable than the other?
Nor do I agree with the vegan position that death is inevitable and the best we can do is “minimize suffering.”
And I don’t think we can “whitewash” the very real challenges that arise for many if not most humans who try a vegan diet. Any attempt to “solve” this problem without addressing the very real counterarguments involving human genetics and health and the reality of how most people live … will fail.
Failure to have compassion for humans – even for humans who have tried their darndest to make this diet work and failed – to me is the ultimate in vegan hypocrisy.
I acknowledge that we have a problem. Where I differ from vegans is in what I believe the problem is (the belief in death in any form), and how that problem will be solved (by reprogramming the subconscious mind, not by a diet).
The problem we have will not be solved by the mind that created it. Attempting to solve it in 3D consciousness has only led to failure, hypocrisy, divisiveness, and endless contradictions.
I have invited vegans many times to consider new possibilities for solving this problem. So far, not one has expressed a willingness to consider a new path. I hope the time will come when that will change.
I’ll limit my comment to only one aspect of the article although I consider most of it to be prejudicial bunk. As for pollinating almonds, commercial beekeepers rent their bees to the orhords for the short 4-5 week pollinating season. It’s a contractual obligation that no spraying be done prior to the delivery of the bees. Each colony delivered being valued at approximately $350 and the rental fee being $200 or less, it would not be a sound business deal for a beek to sacrifice his colonies for the sake of a $200 fee. And, he not would no longer have the colony to take to the blueberries in New England or the orange crops in South Texas or Florida. So, your claim of killing billions of bees pollinating crops is just ignorant bullshit as is most of the rest of your article. I’ll grant you one aspect that is true, at least partially. There are definitely many fanatical and ignorant vegans. But there’s also many non fanatical vegans around such as myself. It would be in everyone’s best interest if you were to actually do some unbiased research before hour paint everyone with the same brush.
Actually my claim came from researching online. I’m not sure how you think these crops are being pollinated without killing bees, but Google it.
Why would bees die from collecting nectar and pollen? That’s what bees do. So, why would it kill them to collect from almonds?
Dude, seriously, are you not able to do your own Google research or read the comments here for links that are already posted?
Veganism is just plain naive, and I say that as someone who like you thought it was THE answer. Veganism fails to tackle the fundamental problem underneath all of them, which is the belief in the cycle of birth and death.
Better to kill thousands of bees than to kill one cow? Says who? Those are judgment calls that you may be arrogant enough to claim for yourself but they hold no moral weight whatsoever.
Veganism is a failed attempt to band-aid over a major fundamental philosophical problem. The belief in death. It does nothing to solve the problem of death. And that is why it has failed and will continue to fail as an answer to ANYTHING.
Just come across this article whilst debating veganism on a FB page.
Fantastic points you make. Totally agree with you and great research to debunk the ‘fallacies’ around a vegan diet. You make fantastic points and sharp responses to your vegan believers and beat them in with logic and reason. Which is not hard, but its not really a fair argument given that your your brain is enriched with DHA/EPA, B12…whilst the vegan brains reasoning is at a handicap due to their brain deficiencies!!
The list is for John Lund. A list of highly intelligent vegans including Albert Einstein and Albert Schweitzer. So, his little brain enrichment argument doesn’t mean doodly squat.
Sorry, but this isn’t quite correct. Albert Einstein was only vegetarian for the last year of his life. Also, he stated he had given up meat & fish so was more likely to be vegetarian, not totally vegan.
Nutrient wise, too, there is a world of difference between a vegetarian diet and a vegan diet. I found a vegetarian diet far, far easier to maintain. Thanks for correcting the record on that, Rose.
Fantastic blog. Former vegan now ethical omnivore. ethicalomnivore.org I’m a holistic health and fitness professional who did it better than most and I have never felt more physically and mentally deficient in my whole life than I was as a vegan. You almost don’t realize it is happening until it is too late. Can some do it better than others.. sure but why risk it for what basically amounts to faulty fanaticism, not science, not evolution and certainly not environmental issues which oddly vegans seem very unlcear about. I strongly suggest this e-book to to give a clear idea what properly grazed ruminants can do for our health and that of the environment. ethicalomnivore.org/a-letter-to-a-vegetarian-nation-by-sheldon-frith/ Thanks for your great work.. many in my community are following and sharing.
Thanks Lana, I appreciate your contribution to the discussion. Yea, I am still recovering, honestly, from my 15-month stint as a vegan. And I consider to be appalled by the apparent mental state of most of the vegans who leave comments here.
I truly mean no offense. I’m asking this as an honest question: Where did you get your research saying that a vegan diet is insufficient? What mechanic data or peer reviewed articles have you studies did you look up saying that a vegan diet is unhealthy? There are plenty of peer reviewed articles from PubMed.Gov that show through controlled studies how a vegan diet may improve your cardiovascular strength, and lower your LDL (Bad Cholesterol) Levels, and so forth.
And if you’re truly trying to reach out to the vegan community and trying to convince them that our diets are unhealthy in fact, using ad hominem attacks and appeal to nature fallacies isn’t the best way to go. Had you opened your argument in front of a live audience with people watching and listening to you, they would have taken you for a fourteen year old complaining about a breakup they had.
Another thing that you overlooked is blaming the vegans for being deficient in Vitamin B12, DHA, etc. This isn’t the case however, and there are very few nutrients that vegans actually require through supplementation. Plenty of people I know can get their Vitamin B12 through fortified foods and not just almond milk, but soy milk, coconut milk, and ready-eat-cereals. Vitamin B12 is not inherent from animal products, it actually comes from the bacteria found within the soil and water within cropping grounds. A lot of non-vegans say vegans can’t get Vitamin D without supplements when again this isn’t true. Humans produce Vitamin D naturally when our skin and hair is in contact with the sun. And that’s only to name a few.
Probably you’re biggest argument is because vegans are drinking almond milk and having excess amount of almonds and other nuts, we’re causing the water to drought the lands and kill the bees we sought out to protect. I’m sorry to say, but this is a straw-man argument. I would argue that our animal agriculture and feeding the 56-Billion farm animals (i.e. cows, chickens, pigs, and tilapia) on a yearly basis, is a much more reasonable explanation to our water deficiency. Plant foods, regardless of what species, require an incredibly low amount of water to grow in comparison to any animal to grow only to kill.
Now for the moral arguments, I will not deny that plenty of vegans have made self-righteous outbursts that non-vegans are immoral monsters destroying the planet, but in all truth, this is no different than any religious zealot approaching a homosexual couple saying what they are doing is pure evil in God’s eyes. There are just as many humble vegans as there are arrogant vegans. A lot of their anger comes from how the farming industries are abusing animals with very poor health habits, claustrophobic environments, and abusive treatments, like castration at birth without any painkillers. Vegans living off a plant based diet have no problem with a wolf thrashing at its food (dead deer) because it is the animals doing what evolution and arguable God selected it to do. It is an animal fulfilling its dietary needs and acting within its natural niche.
Your argument that vegans are destroying the world and the animals around them by procreating might also be seen as ludicrous. The vegan couple may just be trying to start a new generation of people who are told what is healthy from the beginning and show compassion for all animals. And just because we’re opposed to violence and cruelty to non-human animals, that doesn’t mean we think any less of human animals either. We do care that there are starving children around the globe and we are concerned about the well being of women who were abused. We also don’t oppose humans consenting in sport (i.e. Football, Rugby, Boxing, etc.), as those are sentient humans taking the risk that some injury may fall upon them. We are opposed to non-human animals being used as food or entertainment as they are sentient beings as well, but never consented to being subjugated to any cruel measures.
I have been reading a few of your comments to your repliers. One argument that keeps coming up is that you say, “Vegan diet almost killed me.” What exactly were you eating when you tried to go vegan? There are plenty of entrees and snacks that can meet any nutritional requirement and caloric count. If you need a few ideas of some mouth watering vegan recipes that can fill you up, I recommend visiting OneGreenPlanet.Org, subscribing to Vegetarian Health & Fitness Magazines, or going to google for any recipe that you might be interested in. You don’t need to punish yourself for abstaining from animal products, you just need a helping hand to guide you to a sustaining way.
These are my tips and pointers. I truly meant every word with true honesty and humble intentions, not to convert you, but to help you understand.
If you want some voices that can present more sophisticated arguments and reasons regarding the subject of plant based diets, I highly recommend the YouTubers, TheVeganAtheist, Happy Healthy Vegan, Bite Size Vegan, or if you are in the mood for satirical and quite aggressive notions on Veganism and/or crude remarks to non-vegans, I would say Vegan Gains would be your best bet.
Sorry I’m not going to repeat everything that has already been said. You can find abundant articles on Google.
“Sorry, I’m going to repeat everything that has already been said” = “I just got badly schooled and am running away with my (meat-eaters’) prehensile tail between my (lardy) legs”.
Listen, vegans, we are not going to continue this useless conversation that goes in circles. You will not solve this problem with the mind that created it.
Now if you’d like to send some people to learn how to tap to transform the subconscious mind … and create a global movement that could actually get this solved … then you’ve got my interest again. I have no desire to continue talking about “solutions” that have already failed, and continue to fail, to solve the problem in any way.
Of the vegans who posted here last year, statistically speaking, probably many of them have now gone back to eating animal products. So even if your idealism were correct, it still won’t work. Because you’re refusing to take into account the other perspectives (such as human genetics and health) that would have to be integrated for any meaningful solution to arise.
In the meantime, I will be deleting vegan comments like this one that are abusive, childish, and purposeless. As far as I’m concerned, Rob has only proved the issue I’ve highlighted that many if not most vegans are no longer able to think cogently on this diet. Thanks for your understanding.
this is actually to me a very reasonable, thought-out response. PRobably, though, enough ppl, even the ones who are truly doing their best, suffer enough under only-vegan, and as stated, this info is found online everywhere.
Max Ford, if vegans truly were compassionate they would adopt a child. They can indoctrinate that one as well. It is extremely selfish to procreate when so many children in the world have no parents and are at the brink of death.
the lengths people will go to to justify the continuance of their meat-eating and/or animal abuse. You are immoral and cruel…please just be honest…..
And once again we see the mentality that ensures veganism will never be adopted by the vast majority of humans on this planet.
And you are a completely ignorant , self righteous person ! That’s all that comes across from your statement ! I could care less what you eat I would have nothing to do with you ! And people with your attitude would turn away a lot of people that could actually help animals ! By the way I am not a meat eater but would never align myself with you ! No one lives cruelty free ! You are not perfect !!
Incendiary clickbait title, congrats on your SEO skills in pushing this pile of garbage you call “thinking” this high up google’s search rankings. At least you got that going for you. Not so much going on in the cerebral department though, particularly in the rational thinking area. But I know why you did it…aside from possibly holding a personal vendetta due to a vegan girl who stole the man of your dreams away from you, you’re just trying to lure suckers to your bullshit spam-ridden waste of internet real estate in the hopes of pushing whatever the fuck it is you are selling to people dumb enough to fall for it…and logically you would set your sights on the anti-vegan demographic, the stupidest and most gullible group of people out there.
So once again, congrats on at least having some internet savvy. Hope you get some help with the rest though.
lol … no words
Well done, Erika. I agree with you. Don’t let these comments by these people who simply can’t accept the flaws in their “philosophy” of life beat you down. Keep up the great work.
One of the points that intrigues me the most in this whole vegan thing is the “respect for life”. What do they mean by that? Do they mean every life counts? What happens when they get sick? Do they have to respect the lives of the viruses and bacteria that is destroying their bodies too? If they have “respect for life” they should not take medicine. After all, the viruses are only doing what they do. There’s no evil intent behind their actions. They are what they are. Unless there is some hierachy of importance when it comes to life… And, if there is one, who decides that?
PS: how can you tell whether people are vegan or not? It’s simple: if they are, they won’t shut up about it!
“That are destroying”, not “that is destroying.”
Yes good point about the viruses and bacteria, that would be another very deep contradiction in this philosophy.
I came head to head with it when ants infested my home. As a vegan, I tried a whole bunch of “remedies” suggested by clueless people that didn’t work. When I finally had no choice but to annihilate them last year, they had grown in number so vastly that the number of “deaths” was enormously higher than it would have been had I simply used Terro ant baits from the very beginning. Is that more compassionate?
Would it be more compassionate to let them invade my bedroom as they did, dropping from the rafters like a horror movie, and chasing away all sane occupants?
By twisted vegan standards, you should have let them occupy your bedroom, and then YOU should have looked for an unoccupied corner where you could sleep in your house… Unless, of course, some other creature were occupying it, because if that were the case, then you should find another house where you could live, but you should keep paying the rent of the first house so the ants, rats, cockroaches and God knows what else still had a place to live!
Yes that is the logic Reinaldo … it’s not actually a logic of equality, it’s a logic of self-hatred. Which is why it’s no surprise that most vegans exude so much hatred to other humans.
It would be good to actually Google the several definitions of Vegan available. I couldn’t actually find one that mentioned insects, ants or otherwise, much less bacteria and viruses. Typical ignorant response from someone that doesn’t do their homework.
It’s interesting that vegans would probably not consider eating insects when in fact most of the animal “vegans” they point to, do eat insects among other small critters. Cows then are not vegan on their “natural” diet. They eat insects, worms, etc.
All of this coming from someone who actually believes that you can “learn how to attract money and miracles into your life now”
Veganism is a cult, but the law of attraction really works!!!
If vegans were serious about solving the problem, they would indeed learn new methods that work on other levels of consciousness. Because rigid adherence to a diet that clearly is not working for the vast majority of humanity is the classic example of “seek but do not find.”
Yin and Yang, symbiote and parasite, light and dark. right and wrong and the grey area inbetween
Which is why this is a problem that only a non-dual solution can answer … veganism is stuck in dualism, therefore can never work …
if next time you fly ,your plane crashes in a Cannibal tribe and they want to eat you and the rest of people; what you are going to tell them?that eating meat is bad?what if alien one day do that to you? do you really think you are at the top of food chain? ! you are killing harmless ,defenseless creatures just because of your ignorance on mega scales ,because they can not make noise .our ancestor were doing this too ;because they were just like …!
A flood of new comments by vegans over the past few days … and all demonstrating an inability to grasp complex situations or think outside of literal, unworkable “solutions.” Which is why I have no doubt the world will continue the way it is, with only a tiny, tiny minority of vegans … most of whom go back to eating meat. You are not going to solve these problems with the mind that created them. And as long as vegans insist on remaining on the plane of consciousness where the problems were created … they may feel self-righteous but they won’t solve anything.
“Which is why I have no doubt the world will continue the way it is, with only a tiny, tiny minority of vegans ”
That proves your degree is a fake ,why?because science already is thinking about retrieving photosynthesis to the human race,go back to UNI and avoid hangovers this time!!
I’m publishing this comment because it points to the cognitive dysfunction among vegans that I am talking about in the article. It continues to be exhausting talking with most vegans, and mostly seems pointless.
So you are ignorant to the suffering of other lives and just too lazy to make an effort to by non meat products that have all the necessary nutrients etc!
Boy do you all need to learn non-violent communication. I have noticed that many vegans are among the most violent communicators I know … how is it that “compassion” for animals seems to eradicate compassion for humans?
here is how you read the vegan definition.
Why the Vegan Contradictions always spring from the educated, yet ignorant
Clearly, Erika Awakening earned herself a Harvard BA in parakeeting. Ignoring the beginning of the above pathetic litany, which is nothing more than a narcissistic rant of an ignorant and heartless individual, the rest of her work reads like a third grade paper. Unfortunately, Erika, your ‘how to write an article for dummies’ book didn’t deliver. You may have the required percentages, a little bit of history for backing and the in between fluffier of a retarded opinion, but opinions are like assholes. We all have one. Trying to argue the vegan movement only makes you sound like a moron.
Yes, the prehistoric man ate meat. The prehistoric man also whacked a bitch over her head and dragged her by the mane into his cave. Perhaps you long for those days, I prefer a life of an independent woman who reads before she speaks.
If you truly want to clue in to what’s going on, and learn why sixteen million of Americans are vegan, please watch Earthlings and Cowspiracy, the Sustainability Secret.
Not everyone went to Harvard like you. Most daddy’s can’t afford to pamper their daughters paying off socialites to write their papers for them. Most people read and learn. An intelligent, responsible human being, an Earthling, can no longer sit by watching our planet turn to shit by the actions of people like you.
Many of us chose to live compassionately for the sake of animals and planet Earth. To write an arrogant self serving bullshit article, such as the above, takes a an extremely ignorant individual lacking knowledge of relevant facts.
Quite frankly, you are judgmental of something you know nothing about.
Do you know what 99% percent of vegans say? “The only thing I regret is not doing it sooner.” (The 1% was killed by that dentist in Africa who didn’t agree with the other four).
Perhaps a vegan just dumped you and you’re bitter. I find it difficult to believe you truly believe the load of crap you dished out online, but the facts are impossible to ignore – animals suffer immense injustice for a diet that has been PROVEN to no longer serve our health or our planet. It’s as simple as that.
Don’t talk about eating fish to get fatty acids like some moron who has no clue you can get the same from nuts, without the mercury and carcinogens. If I want mercury in my body I’ll eat a thermometer.
I prefer cheeses made from nuts and I prefer grain meats such as Field’s Roast, which can be prepared the same way any animal carcass dish, offering zero cholesterol and half the calories. Same said of Sweet Earth bacon, which prepared on sun flower oil, tastes just like animal bacon, only with zero cholesterol and almost no calories. I enjoy all the meals I’ve ever eaten only in vegan version and I’ve been healthy for three years, never felt stronger and look about fifteen years younger than I am. The only thing I regret is not doing it sooner. Anyone with arthritis, anyone suffering of diabetes, joint pain, weak hair or nails, moodswings, hormonal imbalance – all this springs from a horrible diet of processed foods, meats and dairy. These foods contain chemicals, carcinogens and poison pesticides. However, should you chose to overlook the facts and continue to eat carcass, cow puss, chicken periods and chemicals, by all means go a head. I am all for depopulation of the ignorant. It’s about time. Praise GMO! Hallelujaaaah meats!
Western medicine is not based on healing, darling. Don’t post a pyramid created by the food industry hoping to sell the same amount of poison each year that they’ve sold in the past. Don’t quote me studies from magazines published by pharmaceutical companies that push drugs on both doctors as well as the unsuspecting public. Pharmaceuticals only mask the symptoms of whatever ‘alert’ our brain gives off to tell you something’s wrong. You like being high? By all means, help yourself. Alternative medicine heals, just as alternative foods are healing foods. Even though western medicine is funded in great part by pharmaceutical companies, it is only now that medical partitioners are asked to attend seminars on nutrition and alternative healing. Doctors are now advising almost all seriously ill patients to adapt a plant based diet free of carcinogens. While you were copying your facts from your bullshit publications you should have read this year’s statement by the World Health Organization, informing the public of carcinogens in meats.
Therefore, since compassionate reasons for veganism fail to move your heartless self toward the only intelligent diet there is, perhaps medical reasons should convince you that veganism is a step in the right direction. It is true that some people approach veganism the wrong way, eating only greens, becoming sick, but that’s what an idiot would do. A salad is just water. It is impossible to live on water. An intelligent vegan eats the essential five (vegetables, fruits, nuts, grains and pure clean water) each day. A proper vegan cuisine is offers greater recipe choices than a non vegan cuisine. In fact, any dish can be made vegan. Since the meat industry pollutes our planet more than anyone else, we also benefit by helping the environment. The vegan movement is the most intelligent, compassionate and timely approach to saving our planet Earth from total destruction. There is no argument.
I’m publishing your comment even though my eyes glazed over and I was not able to make it past the first few sentences.
Perhaps you’d like to educate yourself on my actual background, coming from a working family, before you shoot off your mouth: https://erikaawakening.com/its-complicated :D
That’s exactly how I felt about your article Erica. I think I got a few paragraphs in and had to stop reading it because I was laughing too much.
And again … A flood of new comments by vegans over the past few days … and all demonstrating an inability to grasp complex situations or think outside of literal, unworkable “solutions.” Which is why I have no doubt the world will continue the way it is, with only a tiny, tiny minority of vegans … most of whom go back to eating meat. You are not going to solve these problems with the mind that created them. And as long as vegans insist on remaining on the plane of consciousness where the problems were created … they may feel self-righteous but they won’t solve anything.
You make some great comebacks. I wish Erika would wake up. She just seems to want to keep others sleeping as well. I suspect she has a relationship ship with the meat, egg, and dairy industries.
Ah yes, the “oh she must be paid by the meat and dairy industries” line … I don’t know why I bother responding to comments from you folks. Most of you won’t be vegan a year from now anyway, when the diet catches up with you. I was literally out of my mind as a vegan, and my experience with vegans suggests that temporary mental illness is indeed a hallmark of the lifestyle. Not for all vegans, there are exceptions. But not very many.
Amazing name for this blog. Erika awakening, yet Erika does not appear to be fully awake. Or even close to it. I’ve never read such BS in my life, when it comes to attacks on being vegan. Its the type of stuff that makes your eyes glaze over, and wonder if this woman has ever gone out and killed her food, or visited a factory farm, or a slaughter house, or has any clue about the environmental impact on eating meat–in terms of pollution, deforestation, land use, water use, and the amount of food wasted fattening up animals so they can be eaten–rather than people just eating the plant foods in the first place.
And again, let me repeat myself once more … A flood of new comments by vegans over the past few days … and all demonstrating an inability to grasp complex situations or think outside of literal, unworkable “solutions.” Which is why I have no doubt the world will continue the way it is, with only a tiny, tiny minority of vegans … most of whom go back to eating meat. You are not going to solve these problems with the mind that created them. And as long as vegans insist on remaining on the plane of consciousness where the problems were created … they may feel self-righteous but they won’t solve anything.
You slam everyone for making unsubstantiated comments yet here you are talking about how many of us will not be vegans a year from now. Where did you find that figure? Cite your source please. Because you are wrong. As the first responder about said, most of us which we’d done it sooner. Most of us even have doctors who are not vegan who are thrilled with how well we are. So cite your sources.
84% go back to eating meat: https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/animals-and-us/201412/84-vegetarians-and-vegans-return-meat-why
I “wished I had done it sooner” also … until I lost my health. Then I wished I had not done it at all, which remains my position now. I am still reversing the consequences of my ill-fated 15 months as a vegan.
Nicely put, Maya!
I came across your YouTube channel. Three years ago, you started a “30 Day World Peace Challenge”. In your first video, you quoted Ghandi: “Be the change you wish to see in this world”. I watched some of the videos. Day 7 was especially moving about forgiveness. A saw a lot of contradictions in the passage you were reading from the book: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0LrznbzZ6hA
What happened to you in those 3 years… to go from leading a world peace challenge to suggesting that a group of people kill themselves because you feel they’re hypocrites? What would God think about that? You were right about words being powerful. This is one of the most powerful pieces I’ve ever read. It felt like every single negative comment that was said to me was thrown back at me and cut through me like glass when I started reading this post. I can’t change what you wrote, nor can you easily take it back. All I can ask is that is this article a reflection of the change you want to see in this world? Is this peace?
Hi Sam, thanks for sharing your pain. Peace arises out of addressing conflicts honestly, not papering over them with “solutions” that don’t work. You want to get out of pain? Learn the skills for resolving the conflicts at a subconscious level. This begins with honesty, however, a missing step for most vegans. First, you gotta be willing to acknowledge the very good reasons why people continue to eat animal products. Only from that place of honesty are you going to be able to achieve transformation. And transformation will not be a rigid diet. It will need to be a solution on a higher level of consciousness. Cheers.
Well said, but will not be heard.
Maya, I quote your own words:
“An intelligent vegan eats the essential five (vegetables, fruits, nuts, grains and pure clean water) each day.”
Ah, but what about the “intelligent vegan” who eats such a diet, including seaweed, and still finds that her health fails miserably on such a diet?
This was my experience. I was that “intelligent vegan.” And obviously still didn’t get it “right.” I tried and tried over a number of years. No one has been able to tell me how to do it right, even my own ardent trial and error.
So I came to the conclusion it isn’t right for me. Upon gratefully eating red meat again, and other non-vegan foods, I started to recover my energy, strength, gut health, healthy weight, hormonal balance.
This vegan argument that we ex-vegans weren’t doing it right has lost its power over us ex-vegans. Why bother? Maybe you are saying it to convince yourself?
Yep yep and yep
I lot of your arguments are just wrong ! But no point in arguing with a closed mind !!
This comment was in response to the lady that said we can live on nuts !
A very interesting article, I am a true ominvore but my friend is a vegetarian and I have found that there is a vast difference between vegan and vegetarian. Vegans are just plain stupid. I did hear of a story about a vegan woman who had a cat and wondered why it was so sick. She took it to the vet who discovered that she hadn’t been feeding the cat any meat….so the cat was dying. Without animal protein cats can’t survive whereas dogs can. Some humans are the same, some animal nutrition is important. How many vitamin supplements are animal based without vegans realizing it?
Hello, Erika. I am a Cornell/Columbia/Harvard-educated medical doctor and have been vegan since 1980. I am sorry you had a bad experience with a vegan diet. If you or anyone reading this would like to ask me anything about eating this way, please let me know.
Hi Robbie, thank you for being one of the few vegans today to post a respectful comment. I have a Stanford and Harvard education myself. I absolutely respect that being vegan may work for you. As a medical doctor, I am sure you are well aware that people are not biologically programmed in identical ways. So what works for one person doesn’t work for another.
That’s true, Erika. But any diet, vegan or otherwise, can be either heathy or unhealthy depending on the particulars. I would be happy to serve as a resource for you or anyone reading this who is interested in developing and following an individualized diet that will allow you to avoid unnecessarily harming animals without sacrificing your personal health in any way.
Hi Robbie, I appreciate your generosity in seeking to help me and others. I did though try a wide range of possibilities within veganism, and not only were things not getting better … they were getting worse. I simply am not willing to put my health at risk again. I am instead working on solutions at higher levels of consciousness, where I believe these problems will be solved.
After all, if Jesus manifested fish and loaves “out of thin air,” then no fish were “killed” for that miracle, right? And so tapping into that power solves this problem without risking any human’s health.
This article is nothing more than an opinion. You apparently have not done your research and are basing this on your failure as a vegan. I highly recommend for you to read How Not to Die, by Michael Greger. His book sites thousands of scientific non biased, randomized, peer reviewed studies. I see none here. People like you should not write article like this, and if you do, please tell your readers, this is only an opinion.
Please try not to lump all vegans in with the ‘level 15 vegan extremists’. We aren’t all so bad. Most of us regular vegans get attacked by them too. The majority of us are happy to eat with non-vegans – on Australia Day my tofurkey sausages were cooked on the grill with the meat and I didn’t care. It’s impossible to be a ‘perfect’ vegan – logical people know that. I still wear my old leather shoes, I’m sure my car has leather trim in it somewhere, I haven’t transitioned all my makeup to vegan yet. But I feel healthier & happier, I love it when restaurants have vegan options so I can go out with my friends without feeling like a freak. I suppose if I wanted to be ‘accepted’ again into ‘normal’ society I could go back to eating meat – but honestly, the vision of slaughterhouses will haunt me forever so I just couldn’t do it. I will have to accept being labeled as ‘cognitively deficient’ by you or ‘fruit loopy’ by my mum. TBH its a bit upsetting to be judged like that on one aspect of my lifestyle, but it’s not the end of the world.
An interesting rant born out of total ignorance of what Vegan actually means. It is a typical argument of a carnivore that uses wind, badly thought out, twisted logic.
I am a vegetarian – that means I do not eat the flesh of anything that can be defined as a creature. For me, it also means not wearing any dead animal, either. I also, wherever possible, only buy organic dairay produce.
A Vegan is someone who does not consume or wear any animal produce. And vegans will still debate among themselves whether organic animal manure is acceptable. The argument about the use of fertilizer is also warped because it is quite possible to only use vegetable fertiliser.
The rest does not come from the dogma of some vegan cult but from the conscience of different vegans.
The nutrient argument has been well debunked. There is a higher percentage of B12 deficiency in meat eaters than in vegans. If you can’t process these nutrients you can’t process them whether you are a pure meat eater or Jain.
Yes, there are some absolutely obsessed, proselytising vegans out there that almost make me want to stuff my face with a dripping steak just to annoy them. But most are like your five friends – well balanced, thoughtful individuals.
You are obviously an eloquent and intelligent individual but, rather than do what most Neanderthals do and try to destroy that of which you are afraid, try to understand them.
On the other hand, I am quite willing to accept that this article is just an ironic, tongue in cheek piss take of evangelistic carnivores.
Sorry what you’ve written is not backed up by the facts. Human evolution over millions of years has led to much greater efficiency of getting nutrients from animal products than plants. In any event, I tried it for 15 months, and it was a disaster.
Plenty of meat eating disasters and vegan successes out there too. We choose life over death as much as possible.
Life is chosen at the level of consciousness. If people really wanted the problem solved, they would start working there.
To be completely fair here, just because your particular way of approacing eating failed you miserably does not mean that being vegan is unhealthy or bad for you. There is every possibility that you were simply too uninformed about how to eat well on a plant-based diet. A lot of people do not know how or what to eat and people with all kinds of diets suffer from deficiencies in everyting from iron to B12 and vitamin D.
As for your comment about vegans not including other humans in their veganism. Most do and purchase their products fair trade, from ethical brands, locally produced… things tht support people rather than harm people. There are a couple of things here, though. You arguing that a system of ethics require perfection or it is possible is, to me, quite disturbing of an approach and makes me wonder if your own approach to lifestyle design on a persons own terms is not in direct contrast with your view on veganism.
actually yes, it does mean it was bad for me. but the conversation has grown tiresome.
Erika, I am a horticulturalist, I have a degree and 30 years experience. You are dead wrong here.
You don’t have 30 years experience in my body, do you?
Ah, another “I tried it” and it didn’t work for me. Sorry it didn’t work for you, no need to bash others. I highly doubt you actually even have these 5 vegan friends either, and if you did, I really hope they had enough “brain function” to slap you and end your friendship because this is some full on hatred.
You never tried a proper vegan diet, you tried the wrong way, failed and gave up; I bet it’s been the same story for you in many other aspects of your life
Sigh, what is it about vegans and making assumptions … I understand the ideals that motivate the vegan philosophy, really I do … but ideals and reality are two different things in this situation. You would not ask a tiger to stop eating meat, and humans have been as dependent on animal products for thousands of years as tigers. You want change? gonna have to go beyond physical 3D solutions to a higher level of consciousness. And that is what I have not yet heard even one single vegan willing to do.
I had food show up literally out of thin air on my doorstep this week. A whole box of food. How do I know where that food came from? How do I know it’s any different from Christ manifesting fish and loaves? That’s where the solution to this problem will come from … not from some “religious” imprisoning restriction of people’s dietary habits.
That is such a tired old vegan excuse. Veganism made you sick!? Well clearly you didn’t do it right! Accept the fact that not all of us can be vegans, and you’re proving her point about cognitive function by not grasping this very simple concept. Veganism gave me diabetes, and all I hear is exactly what your response was. “Not possible. Had you done it right, and really tried it would have worked. You did it wrong, and weren’t committed enough.” I didn’t eat processed foods, no rice, or bread due to allergies. I ate only from the produce section of the store. You can eat as you choose, but stop forcing it on the rest of us.
Quite ridiculous, possibly insane
My goodness, another barrage of “articulate” vegan comments … not. Sigh.
Nicely put, John!
The “possible and practical” part of the definition of veganism gives meat eaters a great excuse to continue their destructive ways. I’ve never heard it used to imply vegans should all kill themselves. I thought I’d heard all the ridiculous comments about veganism, so it’s nice to still be surprised!
Again … A flood of new comments by vegans over the past few days … and all demonstrating an inability to grasp complex situations or think outside of literal, unworkable “solutions.” Which is why I have no doubt the world will continue the way it is, with only a tiny, tiny minority of vegans … most of whom go back to eating meat. You are not going to solve these problems with the mind that created them. And as long as vegans insist on remaining on the plane of consciousness where the problems were created … they may feel self-righteous but they won’t solve anything.
You are wrong there is way higher b12 deficiency in vegans then omnivores ! And by the way we are omnivores not carnivores !!
Thank you for an informative article Erika. I love animals, they are delicious, especially the wild ones that I hunt.
I have personal thoughts on the issue with vegan and vegetarianism and I will do my best to explain it the best way I know how. I think most come from a place of guilt/Insecurity that fuels them to make a diet transition like this but it is also the reason why most would refuse to open there minds to it all. Making decisions and trying to create through a guilty mind will never sustain a vegan diet and I think that is what leads to contradictions and hypocrisy. I personally to not believe that a vegan diet will hold its self together with just facts and philosophies like you mention. I whole heartily understand that you can not avoid pain or the pain you cause other beings through diet or anything else. I DO NOT like self concepts and people typically put them on for there own favor(holier than thou). I see a vegan diet being better sustained with creativity and passion than facts and philosophies. Which through a SPIRITUAL PERSPECTIVE facts are FEAR. most spiritual teachers contradict themselves since most have not taken the time out to transcend facts(fear) and use faith. Most will use facts to replace their faith…which I honestly believe is shallow and hypocritical for anyone to name themselves a spiritual teacher until they have found the will to do so. I decided to change my diet to vegetarian/vegan which didn’t work out for me but I still have faith and will to do it but now not out of guilt like I initially did. I kept an open mind the whole time I was on the diet to learn through and my find what will work for me and learned about the DOUBLE BINDS. I did not like the vegetarian diet or the cooked just eat whatever does not have animal products in it vegan diet. I find myself feeling more drawn to the raw food diet when I know it is time for me to do it and I will most likely do the raw until 4 which is which would be eating vegan meals until 4. It seems the most practical to me for myself right. Now that I find myself becoming more relieved from double binds I am going to start there and sit where it goes. Its better coming from the heart then from hell and guilt. I also think personal transformation on some level will be needed to go hand and hand to get sickness suffering and death off the planet. lastly, I also see animal pain and suffering is at the mercy of human suffering. I just believe that the better we deal with human suffering the animal suffering will decrease but it will most likely take personal transformation to do that. I have worked in food(that’s how I got the money to pay you for your products) and You also have to think about the people who need animal products to pay there bills not everyone lives the fancy degree or spiritual lifestyle. I think that’s all.
Thanks. Yea at this point what interests me is going beyond the “story” of how food comes to us. If Jesus manifested fish and loaves out of thin air, then the story is gone. Nothing was killed, no environmental destruction was wrought, the food was “causeless.”
yea i guess if you really wanted to get things fully healed everything would end up causeless but from my understanding you can not be the HERO AND THE HEALER at the same time. the HERO role is the dream role. In order to be a hero you need a cause. for most without a cause there life would have no meaning. Most causes are for something bad. So deep down somewhere as much as we want these problems solved most would not know who they are without it. That’s how i see it. Thats why it would be more sufficient to get yourself healed and into a more open and authentic place rather than attaching yourself to a cause.
I suppose being causeless would be without a cause.
Sometimes the Cause could be a sugared up Just BeCAUSE. Which is not a good enough answer for me. But good thing I did try out the diet because I was able to use the “CAUSE” to find the truth and where to focus…would make everything Causeless but not meaningless. And i don’t have to tell anyone what is right or wrong and make an effect.
what do you mean by your sentence?
T-27.VII.13. You are the dreamer of the world of dreams. 2 No other cause it has, nor ever will. 3 Nothing more fearful than an idle dream has terrified God’s Son, and made him think that he has lost his innocence, denied his Father, and made war upon himself. 4 So fearful is the dream, so seeming real, he could not waken to reality without the sweat of terror and a scream of mortal fear, unless a gentler dream preceded his awaking, and allowed his calmer mind to welcome, not to fear, the Voice that calls with love to waken him; a gentler dream, in which his suffering was healed and where his brother was his friend. 5 God willed he waken gently and with joy, and gave him means to waken without fear.
T-27.VII.14. Accept the dream He gave instead of yours. 2 It is not difficult to change a dream when once the dreamer has been recognized. 3 Rest in the Holy Spirit, and allow His gentle dreams to take the place of those you dreamed in terror and in fear of death. 4 He brings forgiving dreams, in which the choice is not who is the murderer and who shall be the victim. 5 In the dreams He brings there is no murder and there is no death. 6 The dream of guilt is fading from your sight, although your eyes are closed. 7 A smile has come to lighten up your sleeping face. 8 The sleep is peaceful now, for these are happy dreams.
T-27.VII.15. Dream softly of your sinless brother, who unites with you in holy innocence. 2 And from this dream the Lord of Heaven will Himself awaken His beloved Son. 3 Dream of your brother’s kindnesses instead of dwelling in your dreams on his mistakes. 4 Select his thoughtfulness to dream about instead of counting up the hurts he gave. 5 Forgive him his illusions, and give thanks to him for all the helpfulness he gave. 6 And do not brush aside his many gifts because he is not perfect in your dreams. 7 He represents his Father, Whom you see as offering both life and death to you.
~ A Course in Miracles
This just came up.
Good food for thought, made me laugh. (Not in the condescending way either). The one thing that is most dangerous to all is extremism. People who say their way is best and everyone should do what they say are no better than hitler. Or religion. People are different. Different genes, allergies, propensities, and lifestyles. Anyone who tries to make everyone do the same thing is NOT looking at the big picture. You can tell the sanctity of a movement or ideaology by how they treat the people who disagree with them. If they respond with hate filled personal attacks, they can’t coexist. People are different and never will everyone agree with you. That’s a good thing! The one thing I’ve said that got a vegan to stop attacking me unprovoked was “do you think its ok for another human to shove your beliefs down anothers throat?” “No? Then trust me to do my own research and make my own decisions.”
This article is hilarious! I’m vegan and I’ve never felt healthier or happier. Let me tell you now, you can be deficient and unhealthy on ANY diet. Before you jump to the conclusion that eggs and meats are healthy and necessary for you maybe you should do your research. I’m a scientist so I’m very involved in the literature. For example, a paper from the Journal of Artherosclerosis showed that even 2 eggs a week exponentially increased risk to carotid plaque.
But I have to admit I didn’t become vegan for health benefits or even for animal rights reasons. I am vegan because (1) so many people wouldn’t be starving if so many crops weren’t being fed to livestock, and (2) eating meat and dairy is a huge contributor to CO2 emissions. You failed to mention the positives of veganism.
Just because you lack the willpower to earn new healthy recipes and stick to veganism doesn’t mean it’s unnatural.
I study human evolution and humans only started eating meat when they left Africa and crops couldn’t grow in the cold winters.
Educate yourself if you’re going to come out with this sort of stuff.
Thanks for proving the thesis of the article, once again. I would highly recommend adding some of the deficient nutrients to your diet. It will help neutralize the “high and mighty asshole” syndrome from which so many vegans suffer. Thanks.
Think about it – we are trying to change the majority so we need to provide evidence for what we see as best for everyone. You want to attack and characterise our responses as “high and might” pretty closed and small-minded of you.
everyone’s entitled to their opinion, no matter how wrong it might be.
I don’t think Emily came across as high and mighty.. If anyone is coming across that way, it seems to be you.
everyone is entitled to their opinion, eh?
A lot of vegans take many supplements in order to be somewhat healthy ! Companies lie about what’s in the supplements a lot of them are made from animal by products ! You may be eating more animals than you think ???
I’ve written a bit about how you got several of your facts wrong. But lots of meat-eaters do that and I don’t hate them for that. I try not to hate anybody. But I come pretty close to hating you, Erika. Only someone truly lacking in any type of empathy (let alone spirituality) would tell people that they would be better off killing themselves. That is a twisted, mean thing to say. It’s utterly irresponsible and incredibly offensive to people who have been bereaved by suicide.
The great irony of this comment …
Ex-vegan here! I didn’t talk to many vegans during my 6 years of no meat/dairy for just the reasons Erika noted above. It was something I was doing just for myself and I didn’t need fanatical input. While my health deteriorated probably WAY more due to life circumstances at the time than diet, I started eating meat again because I was noticing how the conscious meat-eaters around me were just so much… cooler! Like temperament-wise, and seemed to be very grounded in their life pursuits.
Now a conscious meat-eater myself, I look back fondly on my no meat/dairy years as a wonderful time of discovery. For one, I had to learn how to cook to keep nutritional integrity in my diet. Also, not having meat as the easy go-to option gave me a chance to explore all kinds of vegetable-based cuisines I may never have tried otherwise. More importantly, I got to the bottom of the perpetual heartburn that had been plaguing me since elementary school – the culprit was plain old cow’s milk! I stopped drinking it and haven’t had acid reflux since.
I don’t recommend or not recommend abstaining from animal food products – everybody’s experience with their body is totally unique. For me it was great to keep up for a while because it brought a lot of things my way that I’m happy about. My suggestion is don’t knock it until you try it, but also don’t ignore your body to keep up with a status quo notion of what is “right.” I think anyone can benefit from new knowledge that comes with making a change, but most important is to do no self-harm.
Erica awakening? I don’t see where.
I’m not even a vegan and your arguments against veganism are absolutely ridiculous. You should consider studying the scientific method and try to be more rational, because I’ve read your article and answers to the comments, it’s ridiculous the level of immaturity .
You make ridiculous arguments like : “vegans only worry about non-human animals, they don’t care about humans”. What are you talking about? That’s a ridiculous way of tackling the vegan movement. Just because Martin Luther King Jr. was all for protecting black people, that doesn’t mean he shouldn’t do so because he isn’t protecting the exploited children in China.
Quit cognitive biases little keyboard warrior.
Great point Luis!
^^^^ This is what she’s talking about. I’m a deception expert and you are a vegan.
Excellent article! Thank you for sharing your experience. If I ever considered becoming vegan or vegetarian, not anymore. Cheers!
Some people can get inexplicably ill when going vegan from a taurine, carnosine, creatine or carnitine deficiency. These are normally produced by the body but some people can’t make them. When the exogenous supply from meat stops the body malfunctions. This is often used as a counter argument to veganism. But the solution is very simple: get a plant derived creatine, carnitine or taurine supplement and you’re cured.
As I’ve already mentioned in the articles, I was on about 25 different supplements, and my health was only getting worse. You can’t fix this problem with a band-aid, my friend. And so far, vegans have had no interest in learning anything new that would actually solve the problem.
So, I will continue to eat meat and fish and eggs and dairy. Thanks.
This is a ridiculous article clearly written by a ridiculous individual.
Wow, that was articulate.
Excellent article Erika, I too, was a militant vegan until I could no longer ignore my emaciated face and body and comments from concerned family members about my health. I was on the path to self-induced suicide until theory crashed into reality. I am a very healthy and happy meat eater now and wonder if the 2 years I was a vegan reduced my lifespan. Take care and continue to write about the truth. Fascism in all forms is dangerous to human health.
Hi Raphael, thanks for sharing your experience. Yep, theory crashing into reality. Now, there are ways in which “reality” can be changed, by reprogramming the subconscious mind. But what we are talking about here is a massive project of reprogramming our entire relationship to food from the ground up. In the meantime, we are still bound by the genetics and other programming. I still haven’t heard even one single vegan up for solving these problems for real. Hope you are feeling much better!
Very well thought out article. Indeed the vegan diet does harm to the earth.
And it’s an unnatural and unhealthy diet for humans.
You come across as a very angry, rude person — which is hardly the way to win friends. You seem to be someone who is looking for a simple, all-encompassing way of solving your problems. Veganism didn’t do the trick for you, so you’ve turned on it with the fury of a scorned lover. Now you’re promoting some sketchy New Age invention of yours that has the advantage of bringing in money. I hope you find the inner peace you so desperately desire.
Actually while my “sketchy New Age invention” has many times brought in abundance, and often in surprising forms … this year it brought in very little money. That’s because I was focused on using my “sketchy New Age invention” to save my cat from “certain death.” And guess what? It worked. https://erikaawakening.com/its-complicated … It would work the same way to solve these problems. But you see while I manifest fish and loaves to my doorstep, vegans continue to be committed to their hopeless strategy that will never work … So I am sitting here patiently saving lives and manifesting free food while you all continue banging your heads against brick walls :D
I came here for an article providing information against the vegan philosophy. I have not read Erika’s other articles and would hope she takes into consideration my response to this one. My issue was in her delivery. If you take her article, change a couple of words; you have the following. (I did not reword everything, the noun vegan, a couple of relating adjectives and adverbs and I did not rewrite the entire article.)
Why the African-American Civil Rights Movement fails as a “social justice movement”
Before we get started with this article demolishing equal rights, I want to apologize in advance to my black friends – all five of you ;) – who actually are emotionally balanced and sane. This article is not aimed at you. For whatever reason, perhaps because your brain can read words better than most – all five of you do seem to be thriving on a e. Unfortunately, your emotional balance and normal brain function make you the far outlying exception in my now vast experience with blacks. I hope you will not be offended by this article.
For the 99+% of other blacks, who are clearly suffering from cognitive deficiency and emotional imbalance … and look, we’re just basing this on your own ridiculous behavior in response to my last few articles … I have a few tips before you read the rest of this article. First off, hold your fire and actually listen to what’s being said before launching into personal attacks at the author. Oh wait! You’re not going to be able to do that, because smaller mental capacities of lower standards and other inabilities have reduced your brain function and made you impulsive and irrationally angry. Right.
So here’s a hint. Before you attempt to tackle this article, it would probably best if you spend a few weeks exercising your mental capacities every day. This will help to alleviate the deficiencies of critical mental capacities that regulate cognitive function and emotional balance. Of course, if you fail to follow this advice, and attempt to tackle this article with your emotions all in a tissy and your brain functioning on “low” … well, don’t say I didn’t tell you so. The tiny little logical leaps we take in this article … which will be obvious to most whites who are not cognitively impaired … are going to feel like climbing Mt. Everest without oxygen. And then the ridiculous comments that you post here are only going to serve to prove the thesis of the article. And further undermine the equal rights “movement.”
All right, now that we’ve got our disclaimers out of the way, let’s get started demolishing equal rights. I spent over a year deeply immersed in this “social justice movement.” The contradictions and hypocrisy were beginning to become clear from the very beginning. Yet, because I cared about blacks, I stuck it out. Until my mental ability started rapidly declining in the social justice movement. Then, like so many other ex-equal rights advocates who are rational and sane, I ended the disastrous experiment…
This revised article is quite ridiculous and I’m not calling Erika a racist. If Erika had written this, we would certainly call her a racist or the appropriate prejudice she conveyed. You could replace vegan with woman, any religious group, ethnic group, old people and it would still have the same effect. To Erika, if you feel there is no connection between my revision and your article I would appreciate your comment.
Educated and oh sooo angry. Read alot of the ranting article and most of the comments. What jumped out at me Erika was the me, Me, MEness of it all. No matter what anyone said – it was always you justifying your running back to cruelty and ‘away’ from what you must have experienced — an altering of the heart and linking up with your compassionate self. Did your fleeting attempt at veganism come about ‘for your health’ or was it a heart-felt decision made for the animals? The synergistic effect that is possible when one chooses to forego dead flesh and animal secretions can be (let me speak from personal experience – does seem ok here) phenomenally rewarding for mind ‘BODY” and spirit. Personally after 6 years of veganism I am a PROFOUNDLY different person. My family is surprised and happy for these positive changes. I am able to stick to my goals – am more focused and ADD symptoms greatly reduced – more peaceful and compassionate with life and the humans in it. I would say that everyone should go vegan … well – yesterday – for health (stats coming out how great veganism is for the human body) for environment, to end 10,000 years of oppression of women AND – – to end the holocaust that is life for animals bred for misery and slaughter. Erika – this is MY personal experience. Maybe i should start bashing the meat eating heart attack victims and diabetes candidates, and those people seized up in nursing homes with alzheimers (PCRM – physicians committee for responsible medicine links meat-eating and alzheimers disease) patients. Have you ever heard of Karma? Bashing people of the heart who genuinely care for ‘the least among us’ the animals and have moved heaven and earth ‘metaphorically speaking” to change a lifestyle and to reduce their harm and suffering done to animals – and to attempt to bring others on board … makes what you are doing with ‘your education’ and cold, cold hear an abomination.
Maybe you should shut the fuck up and learn something on this blog that could actually solve the fucking problem. And in the meantime, for fuck’s sake, eat some fatty fish.
That was a very intelligent and mature response.. probably dude to the meat you’ve been eating.
Erika, Erika, Erika. In an earlier [Dec 3] reply you wrote “I stopped waking up angry every day when I stopped being vegan.” Obviously this is not true; unless of course you are using this “language” for humor and emphasis, which I highly doubt.
As a “life coach” I think it is important to not only give, or display solid advise, you must “live” it; be it. Integrity must be impeachable; not only in belief, but in actions.
I personally do not care about the meat versus no-meat argument. To each your own. Regardless, the manner in which you present yourself has more effect than what you actually have to say. Your reply will most certainly not help you “win friends and influence people.” Nor does this help your argument, or thesis.
“People will forget what you said, people will forget what you do, but people will never forget how you made them feel.” Maya Anjelou
Actually, it is true.
Truly, if you felt so justified in your position, you wouldn’t need to resort to a childish tantrum.
What’s your source for that some people can’t supplement K2? I’m asking this as a “meat eater” by the way so I can have more informed discussions with vegans.
I would recommend Googling it, as I no longer have any interest in debating at this level of consciousness where nothing can be solved.
I’ve been thinking about and tapping a lot about veganism lately, because it wasn’t just my health but actually my whole life took a nose dive that year.
It’s more and more clear to me that the problem was trying to “solve a problem” at the level of the body, which never works. That lowered my energetic vibration and took me out of my usual vibration of miracles.
Nobody is going to solve the world’s problems with a diet. Period. End of story. Not negotiable. This problem will be solved when people commit to learning Christ like skills and start seeing the world as causeless. The fish and loaves didn’t come from animals or plants, so no suffering or destruction occurred. They were causeless. That is the way, and the only way, this problem will be solved.
All this endless debating by endless numbers of people who come here is absolutely useless and will solve nothing. Peace.
Let me just say that I am not currently vegan but considering making the switch. I completely see your point that nothing is truly “vegan” but get passed the label. Humans are destroying the earth and the best thing for the planet and all the other animals would be if the entire human race suddenly disappeared. Although this is the “best” option, I still want to live while minimizing my harm. The definition of “vegan” is absolutely vague but the point is to minimize harm to the earth and animals. You don’t have to extend the definition out to ridiculous conclusions. Forget the label; just reduce harm where you can. After reading this, I still want to go “vegan” which to me means deciding logically with research and evidence what foods and products I should avoid. I know a lot about the bee industry and don’t see much harm in honey or bee-pollinated crops so I still eat eat these. Pesticides on the other hand, I avoid.
“Reducing harm” is a compromise that will never solve anything. Anyone who actually wants this problem solved is going to look beyond the pathetic “solutions” this world offers, like veganism, and learn how to reprogram the subconscious mind. Anything else will be futile. Peace out.
After studying anatomy and physiology in college, I understand the role of nutrients in our overall health, and I realize that people are pretty much clueless when it comes to nutrition outside the dictates of industry, vegans included. That said, what I always find interesting is that while vegans are vocal about animal suffering and exploitation, little is said about the exploitation of people, who are animals, too. For example, where is our concern for the slave labor that makes the stuff we wear and the technology that we use? And what about the political candidates that we support who kill and displace millions around the globe. Are the victims of Western Imperialism worth at the very least the same pity that a vegan would bestow on an abused dog in an animal shelter? And what about tribes of indigenous people, who do not have the luxury of shopping malls or supermarkets…or indeed money…to procure goods made by slave workers, goods that are driven around in polluting trucks like our unseasonal vegetables are. How would these people survive, who rely on using the entire animal to feed and clothe themselves, if they were to become vegans? We as Americans can take a lot for granted and are pretty spoiled. We don’t have to try and grow vegetables in our backyards during the winter in order to survive, and we certainly don’t make our own clothes. Few of us have known really poor families who have to shoot squirrels in the backyard in order to eat. I have met such people in my travels. What bothers me is when a small minority of people lectures and tries to impose their ideology on the majority, ignoring their own right to choose as well. To eat meat or not should be a matter of personal choice, because it is impossible to say that veganism really releaves any suffering in this world at all. It might make people feel good about themselves in a self-righteous way, but there is just too much hypocricy in their argument to be so judgemental about others. None of them seem to take into account the impact their plastic shoes and clothing have on the environment…or even their bicycle tires…or how their condos have displaced animals. It seems odd to be lectured by people who refuse to see their own impact on the world, or who support political candidates who frack and murder. Odd world that we live in.
Yes, agreed … and again why this problem is not getting solved with a diet. When vegans get for real about having these problems solved, they will stop preaching and start learning … Holistic Belief Reprogramming. I will not take on this huge of a project by myself. I will need substantial support to reprogram human DNA and the whole collective unconscious.
Good article here, Erika, that supports some of my points.
You expect anyone to take anything you say seriously when you start this article saying animal products are necessary for brain function and that you believe vegans have impaired brain activity? Not only is that completely unscientific with absolutely zero evidence PLUS incredibly condescending, there actually IS scientific evidence that vegetarians are MORE intelligent than their meat eating peers by an entire 5 IQ points all the way from childhood to adulthood. If there is anyone with impaired brain activity chances are it is more likely to be YOU.
The rest of what you argue is literally so idiotic only a fool would give you the time of day debunking all of the absolute garbage you have spewed here.
Thank you for being yet another angry and alienating vegan, proving the point. Cheers and happy holidays to you.
You are the one that started your pathetic article off with talking down to vegans as if you are more intelligent than they are. If you want to say something like vegans having impaired brain activity then you better have a peer reviewed scientific journal that links veganism with impaired brain activity. Otherwise you are just flat out insulting people to their face and you wonder why they are hostile toward you.
Like I said, if anything, people that DON’T eat meat have an entire 5 I.Q. higher than people that do eat meat, so retract your statement or just admit that you are full of shit.
Sorry I really have no energy for this kind of conversation anymore. I stopped waking up angry every day when I stopped being vegan. Happy holidays to you :)
Oh, you are an ex-vegan, it makes perfect sense now. It is apparent now that you are angry and hateful towards vegans because you are suffering from a psychological phenomenon known as cognitive dissonance. You failed at it so therefore veganism must be bad, because anything you fail at can’t be good. Anyone that disagrees with you is automatically ‘angry’ or can’t comprehend your arguments because of our supposed ‘impaired brain activity’. This is exactly why you are too afraid to give me a peer reviewed scientific journal that can qualify any of the statements you make that makes a case against veganism because you are not interested in the truth. I hope your sort through your mental issues there!
My friend, I change science. I did it with kidney healing, single handedly. And if vegans actually gave a shit about animals, they would learn this method and do the same thing. Vegans are far more interested in acting high and mighty than in getting the problem solved. Take care.
You said vegetarians have higher Inteligence in your comment ! Well that’s probably because vegetarians still get some animal products in their diet ! It is different from Veganism !
I asked this dolt vegan I know why he drives an Audi with real leather seats and trim. He explained how it was OK since the cow(s) were already killed before the car was made and that he didn’t solicit their death(s) on his behalf. And this Einstein thinks he should tell me what to eat.
No one was born a vegan. Most of us have changed yet still own leather. Some get rid of it, others don’t. This isn’t the point at all. We are trying to work towards a kind and cruelty free world. If this is your one point to justify eating dead animals, go for it.
If people really cared, they would start working on the level of consciousness instead of misaligned “physical” solutions.
Raised 5 kids on a vegan diet, ages: 32, 29, 28, 23 and 21. 1 is now a vegetarian, 3 are vegan and 1 omni. My husband, step father and myself have been vegan since 1998. Clearly you were doing Vegan wrong. My children and my family prove that. You simply must take care and make certain you’re getting all your nutrients. I’d love to hear about what you were eating on a daily basis. Yes there are unhealthy vegans, but it’s because they don’t understand nutrition. Most people eat an omni diet, and most people end up seriously screwed up, health-wise. Vegans doing it correctly, do not. Sure, there are genetics that lead to cancers, etc, but for the most part vegans are far more healthy than those consuming animals. You’re wrong and you’re basing all this on your failure at creating a sustainable plant-based diet for yourself. I have not failed. My family has not failed. I got sick a few years back on New Years Eve. We had dinner with a friend and we all ended up sick, my friends and I. They are not vegan and had it for over a week. I had mine for a period of several hours and it never hit me strong. I was still functional. That was /years/ ago. I have not been sick since. I get blood work done every year to make certain my levels are okay. Other than a higher level of calcium, not too high mind you, just elevated, I have been perfect on the scales. Trying doing Vegan in the correct manner. It’s exceptionally easy, given half a try.
Mary Kate, your family proves nothing other than perhaps you happen to have the rare human genetics that can support a vegan diet. On the other hand, I have seen plenty of vegans talk about how healthy they are, and then when I see actual photos of them … it is clear that actually they are not healthy at all. They are simply in denial.
Rare human genetics…really? Stop writing that of which you know nothing about
How about you list the human communities that have evolved on a strict vegan diet? I believe there is at most one such community, a small and remote one. Are you aware of any others? Would you take any other species on this planet and suddenly force them to eat a diet totally different from what they’ve eaten over the past thousand years? How do you expect that might turn out?
Erika’s right when she said that some people have problem with logics.
How do you know she was doing something wrong? You are a kind of psychic?
That’s a very weird claim “you did something wrong”. So explain what she did wrong. If you are able…
Do you know statistics? A familly can’t be considered as a statistics panel, even if you had 20 children. You have very weird logics. My familly is well on it, so you MUST be well on it. Very weird…
I honestly could not get myself to finish reading this article… but what I saw was just untrue. It was judgmental and plain false. You were kind enough to include your “5 vegan friends” to make sure they would not be offended, but did not seem to care if you offended anyone who was not your vegan friend. I’m a vegan. My family is vegan. My husband has been vegan for over 20 years and is a marathon runner (with his times under 4 hours). I had a successful vegan pregnancy, the doctors did not bat an eye at me being vegan. My children are vegan and healthy. My mother transitioned to vegan. My father, who is a doctor, admits being vegan is healthier than a diet containing meat. Our pediatrician is vegan! And guess what.. he LOVES children. Vegans are not hateful. They do not hate humans. What a bizarre thing think. We not only donate to animal organizations and foster dogs, but we also donate yearly for people to have clean drinking water in other countries. We donate to local organizations. We donate whenever there is a natural disaster in our country– to help PEOPLE. We are kind to our neighbors and there for our friends. I’m a doula who enjoys helping mothers bring babies into this world (even meat eating mothers and non breastfeeding mothers). My question to you is.. why are YOU so hateful? Why are you so judgmental? I guess it doesn’t really matter. You are not part of my life. I just find it wrong that you plant hateful seeds in other people’s minds. I don’t see how that is spiritually healthy, let alone awakened.
One of my vegan friends on Facebook just had a stroke. Young guy, eats “healthy” and exercises. Did you know that stroke risk is elevated in vegans due to malnutrition? It blows me away how judgmental and in denial vegans are about the real ramifications of this absolutely inadequate diet for the vast majority of humanity.
This had nothing to do with my comment and as far as I’m concerned if someone had a stroke there was an underlying cause. You can be a meat eater and be malnourished. I watched a healthy man drop dead at a marathon once. He wasn’t a vegan. Did anyone blame his diet? No. No matter what your diet lifestyle choice is you need to educate yourself on how to be nourished, how to get everything your body needs. I’m sorry about your friend.
I don’t recommend marathon running either, what the fuck is the purpose of running all those miles for no reason? People are insane. But actually there is plenty of science to prove that a vegan diet increases stroke risk. Google it.
I actually don’t agree with marathon running either–for anybody. I agree.. why run all those miles?? I will never get it. I also googled what you said and it’s because of B12 deficiency. Anyone can be B12 deficient though, they don’t need to be vegan. It’s easy to supplement though.
B12 is only one of many of the critical deficiencies. I wrote about a bunch of the other ones in one of my other controversial articles about veganism :)
Starting off an article saying that anyone who critiques the next thing you write is aggressive and lacking nutrients, is quite an aggressive and narrow minded thing to say. Are you afraid of critique, or other opinions? The way you worded it was very rude and an obvious attempt to provoke or be funny.
What I don’t understand is that you can critique people for trying to do good in the world. So what if someone is vegan, but happen to eat a food item not organic?
Why ridicule someone who is actually trying? Why would you be against other people eating less meat? Trying to find their flaws and putting them down and ridiculing them. That’s ridiculing someone who is attempting to make a positive change in the world. Every time you argue against veganism, you’re arguing against the avoidance of animal suffering, environmental damage and health. To us balanced, nutrient rich and full of energy vegans – you just make yourself look like an idiot.
At least we are trying. You pay for animals to be murdered. That it a fact.
We do not.
Get over the fact that some people don’t want to support that. It’s obviously very provoking to you.
Actually, if vegans were trying, they would be learning an entirely different skill set called reprogramming the subconscious mind. What vegans are actually doing is being slaves to their own guilt and imposing that guilt on everyone else as well. While the intention is well-meaning, it is not going to work. And therefore, someone who really wants to explore compassion would start looking at new options.
This conversation really can’t go anywhere until vegans are willing to look at a different level of consciousness instead of trying to treat symptoms.
Thanks for writing this article Erica, it was a very interesting read. I particularly liked the acknowledgement of the fact that studies on the health benefits of veganism are always performed on self-selecting vegans and therefore highly likely to be only performed on those people who are particularly well suited to a vegan diet since anyone who is not drops the diet or has never taken it up.
It is simply illogical to insist that everyone can subsist on a vegan diet based on such studies, especially considering how varied people’s dietary requirements are. Different people have different needs, sometimes very specific and many people probablydont even know what that they have these specific needs since they have just as a matter of course been enjoying a varied omnivorous diet that satisfies those needs coincidentally.
Likewise there are many people who have very strong restrictions on their diet that preclude many non-animal based foods. Nut allergy sufferers, celiac disease sufferers etc. My missus is allergic to some acid or other that is found in tomatoes, onions and capsicum. Tomatoes. Onions. *and* Capsicum. Man, that shit is in *everything*, everything that’s decently tasty anyway! It’s a real drag let me tell you, if she couldn’t eat eggs, dairy, or meat either? Man, I couldn’t be with her, that would just be too much :-(
Thanks for commenting. Yea life on a vegan diet was getting more and more limited.
Seems like a lot of effort and anger has gone into this anti vegan article. Almost like when someone goes from being religious and become atheist. Only the atheist turns out being the fanatical one.
One of the best things about not being vegan anymore is how little I think about food now. I noticed when I was a teenager and always on a diet or diet-conscious, that I became obsessed with food. I notice that many vegans I knew also are obsessed with food. I suspect this is due to the nutritional deficiencies and deprivation. Regardless, once the storm of these articles blew over, I mostly felt relief to be away from the religiously fanatical thinking of many vegans. Cheers.
“One of the best things about not being vegan anymore is how little I think about food now”-Erika Awakening.
You should change that to “One of the best things about being a psychopathic cannibal/ mass killer is how little i think about murdering the masses and eating them. I feel really free to eat and do what i want now. Food is food and i cant afford thinking about who i slaughter to JUST EAT one piece of body part,i got no time to be a food addict so i prefer to be a murdering psycho-hypocrite.” I hope the meat eating friends that i have dont get offended, but ohh i forgot that EVERYONE gets offended when they feel guilty. Like you Erika. Get rid off that guilt cause you’re probably gonna spend years in writing anti-vegan articles with no scientific evidence just because you feel so freaking guilty and angry. Wish you good luck
I’ve been thinking about and tapping a lot about veganism lately, because it wasn’t just my health but actually my whole life took a nose dive that year.
It’s more and more clear to me that the problem was trying to “solve a problem” at the level of the body, which never works. That lowered my energetic vibration and took me out of my usual vibration of miracles.
Nobody is going to solve the world’s problems with a diet. Period. End of story. Not negotiable. This problem will be solved when people commit to learning Christ like skills and start seeing the world as causeless. The fish and loaves didn’t come from animals or plants, so no suffering or destruction occurred. They were causeless. That is the way, and the only way, this problem will be solved.
All this endless debating by endless numbers of people who come here is absolutely useless and will solve nothing. Peace.
Thank you for speaking the truth Erika! Vegans are not a fun group to be around. They have a tangible pessimism towards everyone: carnivores, omnivores, vegetarians (for not committing fully). The film ‘Cowspiracy’ takes jabs at Vegetarians for eating dairy. Vegans even hate other vegans who eat honey. Vegans hate other vegans that own cats. I have a friend who received a leather purse for her bday. It was the last gift her mom gave her before passing away. She kept it and was shamed by her Vegan ‘friends.’
50% of vegans are normal; the other 50% are crazy. Together they account for 3% of the population. I find Vegans prefer to keep it at 3%, so they can remain an exclusive club of omnivore bashers and trade recipes that taste like crap.
Doctors and fire fighters save lives. Teachers teach and influence the next generation. Hippies don’t contribute to society so being a vegan gives them purpose…an identity. The lifestyle creates a new social circle of friends. Normal people develop friends from college/work, but hippies don’t go to college or work. The coolest vegans are the ones you didn’t even know were vegan.
Most meat eaters genuinely care about animals. They consider pets family members. This is a quality we share with Vegans, and one that should be utilized more. People that work at zoos are animal advocates and promote conservation. They went to a zoo/farm when they were kids and inspired to choose a career in that field (vet). I volunteer my Saturdays to an animal shelter and donate supplies.
The thing that makes people scratch their heads when it comes to Vegans is their ATTITUDE. It’s not the diet per se. Their restricted diet means more hamburgers for me. They are very preachy and believe in moral superiority. Hippies thinking they know more than Drs who spent 10yrs studying physiology, anatomy, biochemistry to help people. What’s next, not listening to your mechanic when you have a car problem?? Drs say you need to supplement. But vegans contradict this and say, “You get everything you need from a plant-based diet.”
Vegans downplay habitat fragmentation and rabbits/rodents killed during plowing. Some are even in complete denial. Pesticides are used for crops. They protest at restaurants that offer vegan options (Chipotle)…like wtf. They’d rather protest instead of donate to companies like Modern Meadow. The largest investors in the company are the USDA and NSF.I didn’t see PETA on the list. For every person that becomes vegan, one reverts back to omnivore. If you were a Vegan for 15yrs and stop for health reasons, they’ll shame you and put your personal info online.
Activists steal dogs from homeless men in France (look it up). The militant ones limit nutrients during a crucial time when their kids are developing bones/brains (there’s a married couple in jail). They publish your name and city online if you leave their cult. Nobody wants to be in a group that behaves this way.
Some girls that become vegan have a prior history of eating disorders (anorexia, binge eating, emotional eater, bulimia, yo-yo dieter, fad dieter). She may intentionally eat only 500 calories of salad per day, and claim it’s because she’s vegan, when really, it’s to hide their anorexia. Veganism is an unhealthy obsession with ingredients that takes away from other aspects of your life.
Vegans probably eat animal products. If you go to a vegan restaurant, you have no idea what’s really in there. Is there a vegan honor code? Do you blindly trust the owners? Do you blindly trust the companies that claim to be ‘vegan?’ I could bake a cookie and claim its vegan. There is huge money to be made here, and Vegan companies can be corrupt. Whole Foods is known for overcharging (look it up).
Bodybuilders who built muscle on a protein-rich diet, and became vegan last week, claiming they’re vegan bodybuilders…gtfo. They are taking a shitload of animal byproduct supplements, maybe even doing steroids. Who knows what goes on behind closed doors? Most vegans eat cheese at home, but would never admit it to their fellow cult members.
Vegans compare a human baby to a piglet, and say they’re equal. This is just something they say to evoke emotion. If a train was coming down the tracks, the vegan would save the human without hesitation.
They use a lot of propaganda that’s misleading. I watched ‘Forks Over Knives.’ Fewer rats got cancer…but they also died at an earlier age. It’s hard to develop cancer if you’re already dead. As an aside, there’s no cure for cancer, and if there was, that drug company would be rich. Vegans believe that doctors and farmers are in cahoots, and play golf together on Sundays.
The movie also referenced some country Germany? stopped eating meat and heart disease decreased. But fish consumption went up 200% and sugar/starch/fats decreased 60%. Alcohol/tobacco also decreased significantly.
I’m not sure why we’re debating this…The best diet according to all studies (vegans, meat eaters, vegetarians, doctors) pretty much everyone is veggies, grains, and lean protein like fish. Asians live forever and look young well into their forties.
There’s a hidden camera show called “What Would You Do” find it on YouTube. There’s a vegan episode. Meat eaters completely respect the vegan mother’s decision, and come to her defense. Vegans, on the other hand, would probably bash the meat eater, call them a murderer, etc.
From a moral stance, Vegans win. This is the only legitimate claim they have. Everything else is an attempt to add weight to their odd eating habit. The number one contributor is burning fossil fuels, not cows farting. The manner in which cows/chickens are treated on factory farms is appalling. Some farms are adopting better behaviors though.
From a biological stance, Vegans lose. Some vegans claim we’re herbivores but stating this makes them lose all credibility immediately.
Dogs=Omnivores that lean toward meat
Humans=Omnivores that lean toward veg
I’m not sure what our closest relatives (chimps) are classified as. They have to be omnivores since they eat ants for protein. Regardless, at some point in our evolution we started eating meat, especially during winter months when crops weren’t available. Some scientists/anthropologists believe protein played a role in brain development, and I agree with this notion. Its 2015…we’re flying to the moon, and chimpanzees are still in the jungle scratching their butts. We didn’t evolve from chimps, but share a common ancestor. Veganism is a slap in the face to ancestors who are the sole reason humans exist today.
Our cells need cholesterol (HDL) and B12 to function. Animals eat each other in the wild. A bear also eats honey, and this sentient being wouldn’t contemplate the morality of eating you. Lions eat zebras. If you have a problem with Mother Nature take it up with her.
The typical vegan self-exam is:
1. Eats chips and soda, starts eating veggies and feels better…credits veganism
2. Becomes a vegan, loses all energy, gets sick easily…calls it detoxing
If Vegans didn’t exude smugness and insult/mock (haha you’re eating bee vomit) people wouldn’t be so turned off by the group. We hear Vegans loud and clear, and we’re confused quite honestly. Why are you protesting at Chipotle? Why are you saying humans are herbivores? Why are you publishing the names of ex-vegans? That’s not cool. Why are you antagonizing Vegetarians? Most people are vegetarians before becoming vegan, so why are you deliberately turning them off?
I don’t think Vegans actually want to expand the base. They prefer to keep it an exclusive niche group. They are their own worst enemy when it comes to public perception.
That about sums it up :) Thanks for commenting.
I’m not sure where to start, but I feel like after reading your articles, that you seem to be very angry about veganism, but I’m not sure why? Did you have a bad experience with vegan elititests? Do you feel inadequate because your body couldn’t thrive on a vegan diet?
I can see how for many people, veganism would be hard to thrive on. Our bodies have evolved to eating meat over thousands of years. Brem it down even further, if we have been raised on an omnivores diet, I can see how that hangs would be hard on the human body.
As a vegan myself, I dorm consider myself 100% vegan, because I’m sure there are bugs that make their way into my food (im looking at you figs. And anything processed in a factory).
I only eat plant based foods, and 90% of my food comes from my backyard.
I’m wondering why you think most vegans don’t eat organic? It wouldn’t make sense to me why most vegans wouldn’t? Pesticides are so harmful to the earth.
I don’t think that im better than anyone or that I know more than my doctor or my mechanic. But, before going vegan, my health was lacking. I was severely anemic, and I suffered heavily from depression and anxiety. Thankfully, I no longer suffer from any of the three. Granted, I believe living an active lifestyle really helps as well.
Anyways, I look forward to your reply.
Jess, thanks for commenting. When I posted my original article questioning veganism, I was attacked by hundreds of vegans on Facebook, here on the blog (not all comments were posted, we do have some standards of respect here), for weeks. That article was not even very provocative. All I did was ask questions, really, and start sharing my experience. Perhaps if you had seen what I saw, it would be more clear … cheers.
It is also ordained by God to eat everything with a split hoof in the Old Testament ! Omnivores naturally eat herbivores but do not eat other omnivores or carnivores ! This is life !!
Hi, I just posted a comment on your fb page.
Wishing you continued happiness and health! :)
To put it blunt… Vegans are elitist scumbag A-holes.. they don’t give a flying fu*k about the animals in reality they just need a reason to make themselves feel morally superior to others.
Holy Cow! I think I may be in love. Finally, a sentient being that sees the giant gaping abyss in the vegan agenda. As a person who was seemingly born with the instinct to hunt and gather and that chooses to live off of natural organic meat and fish (deer, Fluke, etc….) I have come up against the Vegan agenda that is so bigoted and usually veiled in concerns for wildlife conservation and safety. The “Eat as i do or die” mentality of most vegans is reprehensible and about as invasive and about as offensive as it can get. Tied to an urbanized liberal agenda it becomes noise and clutter in the system that actually pulls sensible individuals away from making good conservation decisions. Especially for suburban deer management which is an issue that plagues most suburban areas of the east coast at this time. Thank you. Love and Kisses
Hi Matt, thanks for stopping by. Yes, the way I have heard many vegans communicate – including myself while I was one – does not meet my need for empathy, respect, balance, and honoring of all human needs. Glad the post spoke to you :)
At first glance, this article puts forth a lengthy case against the hypocrisy and fallacy of veganism. However, upon closer inspection, it becomes clear that most of the claims lack evidence and operate under broad assumptions and generalizations.
First, you attempt to debunk the definition of veganism, specifically focusing on the subordinate clause “as far as is possible and practicable.” Although it is a valid point that this phrase is subjective and therefore prone to misinterpretation, you do exactly that. Instead of providing evidence to reveal the subjectivity of this definition, you manipulate the definitions of “possible” and “practicable.”
“Possible: being within the limits of ability, capacity, or realization; being what may be conceived, be done, or occur according to nature, custom, or manners
Practicable: capable of being done or accomplished”
(source: Merriam-Webster Dictionary)
One can reasonably deduce that due to the conjunction “and” connecting “possible and practicable,” a vegan should take both into consideration during decision-making; that is to say, they are mutually inclusive. This does not cause the definition of veganism to collapse, as you claim. It merely adds a level of degree that you seem uncomfortable with: perhaps it is not possible or practicable for every vegan to live a life entirely devoid of cruelty or exploitation.
Furthermore, under your own definitions of possible and practicable, you deduce that vegans should kill themselves in order to definitively minimize harm to animals. Is it within the ability or capacity of a human to eliminate the existence of humans? Is eradicating the human race something a human can accomplish? You make a wise observation that a world without humans would be a world of less animal suffering. However, even if it were possible and practicable for a human to accomplish such an extirpation, without humans neither the term veganism nor its application would exist. This facet of your argument is therefore irrelevant.
Moreover, you do not consider the harm that humans may reduce with their existence. You claim that a vegan causes harm to animals, but in doing so neglect the possibility that a vegan may concurrently reduce harm (perhaps by lobbying, protesting, advocating, or rescuing). Theoretically, if the reduction in harm is greater than the harm generated, the result is a negative net amount of harm. If, as you suggest, this vegan (with negative net harm) commits suicide, the negative net harm becomes zero harm, thereby increasing the total amount of harm in the world.
To quantify harm is a difficult task indeed, if not impossible or impracticable. But you provide no evidence to support the basic claim that a vegan diet causes more harm than an omnivorous diet or even that it causes an equal amount. You objurgate the hypocrisy of veganism by highlighting the staggering bee casualties associated with almond milk production. However, there is no evidence linking veganism to the production of almond milk. The phrase “most vegans just LOVE their almond milk” is not evidence. A comparison of the harm caused by a vegan’s consumption of almond milk and the harm caused by an omnivore’s consumption of beef is not provided. By stating “per serving, it would not surprise me at all, if more bees were killed than cows,” you do not corroborate your argument. Yet, you expect the reader to accept that these statements are true.
In addition, you diminish your argument by misrepresenting veganism and overgeneralizing vegans. Intermittently throughout the article, you aver that veganism is a “social justice movement,” and rooted in the idea that “all humans can thrive on a vegan diet.” However, your supplied definition of veganism does not include these assertions. You imply that veganism is not possible or practicable because causing zero harm is not possible or practicable. But veganism does not operate under the principle of causing zero harm; it aims to exclude as much harm as is possible and practicable. By excoriating aspects of veganism of your own construction, you undermine the weight of your argument and open the door for readers to doubt your reasoning.
Your argument is further weakened by exaggerated generalizations about vegans. Two examples of this are “many vegans hate humans” and “most vegans don’t eat organic foods.” Ignoring the inherent discrimination of these statements, the key question is: how do you know what “many” or “most” vegans feel or do? As stated in the article’s first paragraph, you have 5 vegan friends, whom you admit are sane and thriving as vegans and, hopefully, whom you love and respect as humans. Suppose that, generously, you know 1000 vegans. If 5 of them are sane and thriving, they represent 0.5% of the vegans you know. Suppose that, conservatively, 1% of the world’s 7 billion people are vegan, totaling 70 million people. If 0.5% of the vegans you know are in opposition to the vegans your article aims at, then applying that same percent yields roughly (0.005 x 70,000,000) 350,000 additional outliers. That’s 350,000 vegans that you could potentially be your friends, regardless of their veganism. Furthermore, an immense degree of variation can occur in 70 million vegan lifestyles. It is detrimental to your argument to claim vast experience with such a great number of humans or to assume that you have a good understanding of the actions and values of so many.
On the whole, many of your arguments are obscured or subverted by your personal attacks and generalizations. Your article would be stronger if it supplanted generalizations about veganism with evidence. Although you mention the ignorance with which some humans choose a vegan lifestyle, you neglect to elaborate on the salient point – some vegans do not research their food choices and therefore are ignorant of the extent of the animal harm they are inflicting. You might better persuade vegans to evaluate their choices by providing evidence exposing the animal harm generated by common vegan food choices. A good argument utilizes trenchancy, good logic, and supporting evidence. Although you attempt to make good points about the inconsistency and hypocrisy of veganism, assumptions and a lack of evidence plague your article. As such, it is not as convincing as it could be.
Phew! A whole lot of logic there, and I don’t hear any speaking to people’s actual experience. Given the rapid rate at which vegans become non-vegans, I would think that anyone who is serious about veganism saving the world would be looking very carefully at the very good reasons why humans abandon veganism.
Or, I suppose you can continue on with the logic. And I will continue eating animal products. Not because I consider it an ideal solution, rather because I see veganism as a forced “strategy” that does not work.
You might be interested in some of the more recent comments about how we are going to have to go beyond strategy to empathy and subconscious mind transformation if anyone actually wants these problems solved.
Thanks for stopping by! :D
Erika, your reply to Marie sounds like you’re completely negating her incredibly well thought out rebuttal to your argument because it’s based in “a whole lot of logic there.” It’s true, it’s logical, and your argument is completely illogical by so many points even beyond what Marie pointed out. (Just because your argument is illogical, doesn’t mean you’re not within your right to subjectively feel the way you feel, it just means that it’s not logical.) So it seems to me that you, Erika, have come to the conclusion that we put too much emphasis on logic and strategy and not enough emphasis on empathy and subconscious mind transformation. OK. There is clearly a huge chasm between someone who completely dismantles your argument with logic only to be met with something akin to “Oh that’s so logical, that’s too logical, I feel differently, therefore you’re wrong/your rebuttal doesn’t matter because you don’t appeal to my emotional state or anyone else’s personal experience.”
I guess I just think there’s a divide in your thinking, Erika. I agree with you that we should be more attune to what’s going on in our subconscious, we DEFINITELY need to be more empathic, we could all stand to trust our intuitive personal experience a little bit more than we do in this rationalistic, logic driven Western society. But I also think we can’t abandon logic. You point out at the beginning of your article that you have 5 vegan friends who somehow are normal, high-functioning people despite their veganism. And then you go on to disparage, generalize, and hate on everyone else in the vegan community beyond those 5 people that you have personal relations with. You claim that vegans are missing critical brain nutrients more than enough times in your article, which is just the same bashing that you seem to have experienced when you were vegan. Could it be that none of us are perfect? Could it be that you eating meat is important to you personally because of your health issues, but that to other people it actually solves health issues? Could it *possibly* be that every human has subjectively experienced the world and come to different conclusions and requires different levels of nutrients and our bodies are incredibly complex and you certainly don’t have the answers and you certainly cannot claim that vegans are stupid because YOUR own brain functioning decreased when you went vegan? Do you get what I’m saying? You’re just making the exact same arguments – illogical, hateful, silly, not grounded in evidence, etc – that you claim “the vegans” make against meat-eaters.
You’re completely right that no one can rightfully say “This worked for me so it must work for everyone,” so if you believe that, WHY ARE YOU DOING THAT? It’s just really frustrating to read your articles and see so much of what you claim to dislike in your own words and arguments. Of course none of us are perfect. Of course we all have different needs. of course many vegans will be in-your-face about it. But hey, meat eaters are just as in-your-face about eating meat (you, case in point) as vegans are about not, it just so happens that eating meat is “normal and good” so it’s OK in that case, but totally not OK when it’s the vegan trying to offer up an alternative point of view.
I mean, keep in mind that vegans are a tiny minority compared to the vast number of meat-eaters and the huge scale of industrial animal product production, it’s just seems really ineffective and silly (in internet speak, butthurt) to spend so much of your energy and words arguing against a movement that, as you claim, has good intentions, as well as good results. Veganism DOES result in some amount of lower suffering, but hypocrisy is inherent in existence. But hypocrisy isn’t an all or nothing thing, you can and should try your damndest to let your actions, beliefs, and thoughts line up with each other as much as is possible and practical (see what I did there…?!).
In short, I am frustrated by your writing because despite your (somewhat) good intentions, it seems very hateful, ineffective, illogical, poorly articulated, and inconsistent. This is not a personal attack against YOU (I don’t know you) but rather against your essays about veganism. I respect that you had a difficult time with it. Move on, respect yourself and your body, and respect others’ selves and their bodies, too.
Thank you for commenting. I hear your frustration. You may have noticed if you have read more recent comments that as I have delved into self-empathy and gotten myself nourished … my frustration has dissipated somewhat, and I have shifted to an open question … what is a better answer for this problem?
I am not negating your experience. I do not doubt – and have said many times – there are some people who feel better on a vegan diet. And then there are a great many of us who felt like absolute crap. I did though experience a wide range of vegans in a wide range of situations who were the angriest, most judgmental and hateful people I’ve spent a bunch of time with … and I do believe that there is a connection between that and the diet. In part because I have felt way less angry and judgmental since I quit the diet.
Now … assuming that we share the same needs in bigger ideals here, like compassion for all beings … then we can agree on the level of values. Where we are disagreeing is on the level of strategies.
After I stepped away from the whole vegan debate, the clarity that came for me is that veganism did not work as a strategy because it’s attempting to solve the problem at the level of symptoms. Much like why pharmaceuticals don’t really cure anything, they just manage symptoms. The real problem is the belief in death, which is in our belief systems. And that, to me, is the sane place to look for solutions.
So I acknowledge your frustration. I felt very frustrated when I wrote the articles, and now I feel more calm and clear. Probably I would write in a different tone if I wrote them today, yet I feel grateful that the tone I chose created such a great discussion that hopefully will lead down the road to better answers.
How does that land with you?
Where did you get your “rapid rate of vegans becoming non-vegans”?
Ummm … do the research?
Really what it comes down to with these ex-vegan “epiphanies” is that the
person feels extremely guilty about abandoning their values when they return
to eating meat, so they feel the need to “disprove” their former ethical
system in order to remain morally consistent. Other commonalities of ex-
vegans include claims of severe (self-diagnosed) nutritional deficiencies
that they suffered from while vegan, despite a lack of medical tests showing
these deficiencies to be real, as well as an extremely condescending tone
towards those that remain vegan without health issues.
They then proceed to argue by means of the “perfect-world fallacy”, that is
to say, since veganism cannot solve all problems in the world, it is wrong.
They then attempt to show that “ethical” grass-fed meat is superior to a
vegan diet. What they fail to realize that we would need 15 earths to have enough grazing land to feed the world on a diet of grass-fed meat. Also, livestock are the leading cause of anthropogenic greenhouse gas emissions, and grass-fed animals produce twice the amount of methane as grain-fed animals. But hey, what do I know? I’m just a brain-damaged vegan…
Really I don’t think anyone would argue with the basic values you are espousing. I am aware of the issues, and I have never claimed that eating animal products is a solution to anything other than the physical problems I was having. There is a reason why humans have been eating animal products for millenia. We are adapted to a diet that includes animal products. And while there may be genetic outliers who can in fact thrive on a vegan diet, they appear to be few and far between.
I don’t know if you’ve ever studied non-violent communication. In the NVC consciousness, we recognize that veganism is not a value in and of itself. It is a strategy that is attempting to meet certain needs, such as integrity, peace, equality, non-harm to animals, and so forth. I do not argue with any of those values. I simply realize from my own experience that veganism was not a strategy that worked … while it may have appeared to meet certain needs, it left other needs sorely unmet. First and foremost, my health. But other needs as well, such as workability, belonging, community, joy, intuition, flow, etc.
My suggestion to vegans and non-vegans alike is that – if anyone wants these problems actually solved – we will have to let go of our attachment to strategies and give some real empathy to the needs on both sides of this debate. We will need to be exploring new and unfamiliar ways of getting problems solved via transformation. Specifically, reprogramming the subconscious mind to eliminate the belief in death.
Until then, while by no means is eating meat and fish my perfect solution, it is meeting my most urgent needs like health more effectively than was a vegan diet. And I am no longer willing to adhere (with great sacrifice) to a strategy for meeting needs that clearly is not working.
What do you hear me saying here?
If you feel that you cannot be healthy without animal products then obviously you should do what you need to survive, however the title of your article was “Why the vegan philosophy collapses in a pile of contradictions and hypocrisy”, which is what I was responding to. It certainly seemed that you were arguing with the values of veganism, although maybe you have changed your views since you wrote this article.
I find it somewhat disturbing that you wrote “belonging” and “community” as reasons you gave up veganism. I guess if you were brought up in a society that oppresses minorities/woman/gays etc, you would just go along with it to feel a sense of “belonging”?
I agree that empathy for others is important, but I don’t see how pretending that death doesn’t exist will help with that. Yes, the animals you are eating are really dead, they didn’t “go to a better place”, they had a life before, and it was destroyed.
Yes I don’t expect my perspective would make a lot of sense without us engaging in a pretty deep conversation about it. Certainly pretending death doesn’t exist won’t solve anything … but reprogramming the subconscious mind so that death stops existing is quite a different matter.
I still do not agree with veganism, because I see it as a strategy that does not work for most people. And while I agree that the value of community cannot trump other values, I do think it has to be addressed honestly and thoroughly. Imposing a strict diet on people that robs them of community (which is what happened for me) simply will not be sustainable long term. I was in great emotional pain as a vegan, while I was also in great physical pain. That is enough to tell me that being vegan was not an organically manifested solution that could actually work.
I understand you feel frustrated with the decision I have made. And likewise I feel frustrated with vegans. Because even as a vegan, I said over and over again we are going to have to address belief systems if we want these problems solved. And nobody was interested in learning how to do that. So you can certainly judge me for my decision, and I can judge you for not learning new skills that might actually work. I don’t see how us sitting here judging each other is going to solve anything, however.
It’s similar to chronic illness, really. One can have chronic knee pain as I did, and attempt to “solve” it by abandoning activities that added joy to one’s life. Which I did for many years, at great sacrifice. Or one can go deeper into the belief systems and solve it there. Then the pain vanished, and I was restored to normal physical activity. “Solutions” at the level of the body never actually work, they just move problems around. Only a holistic solution at the level of the mind is going to meet the values and serve the highest good of everyone.
Again, I don’t expect this to make much sense in a superficial conversation as we are having here. It is only after years of experience solving problems at the holistic level that I can see there would be a better answer here for everyone, if people were motivated to learn a new way.
By the way, how about we use an example to get us out of the either/or strategy fighting trap? In the Bible, Jesus manifested fish and loaves out of thin air. If he manifested the fish without actually fishing, then no fish were actually “killed” … right? Nobody suffered, nobody lost. That is the kind of solution I am talking about here.
The objective and integrity of this article is questionable. There are many relegions, communities, ethinic groups, who lives for 1000s of years old and follow strict veg diet and are living healthy life. So, the health issue is just an excuse.
Veganism is not a so called religion and hence it do not have a handbook like Bible or Quran to define it’s guidelines and/or objective. Veganism comes from human common senses. Veganism is not just compassion or diet or rejecting leather or fur.
For few moments, for veganism. In the current global situation of highly unbalanced “Consumer and Resource”, looking to the future, the only option you can do is “Consume for need, not for greed”. Yes, you are right, do not drive your car unless needed, take a walk or put off the AC and light when leaving the room and save power. Imagine, you are stranded in a small island with limited resources. Initially we will survive with fruits. Then you will kill animals to survive. That’s natural. After few years, if you have your pet with you and you do not have anything left to eat, you’ll kill your pet and eat, in order to survive and that’s also natural. But the first day, overlooking all fruits and vegetables if you look for food and consume to satisfy your taste buds instead of hunger, that’s unnatural. There are many tribes who lives in mountains, above 16000 feet, where no vegetable grows. And to survive that temperature and maintain body heat, red meat is necessary for them. That too is natural. In nature, all dies brutally. Deers are eaten alive, Lions, at old age cannot hunt, become weak and lie nearly dead. Then the scavengers like eagles eat them alive. So, cruelty/brutality is not the point. The only point is necessity. When a lion hunts a deer, it’s not a luxury for him. It takes a great pain for him to hunt to arrange his daily food. But when we buy a turkey to have a great feast in the week-end that’s unnecessary luxury.
Now, come back to veganism. It says the same thing; “Consume for need not for greed”. One need to understand that in the current world, we are “Slaves in the hand of Giant Multinationals”. We are just consumers and they control what we think, eat and/or live. There are multi-billion dollar industry and billion people’s daily earning are directly dependent on it. Now it’s a “System” and we are a part of this “System” and are so deeply rooted, physically and mentally that it’s not easy to come out of it. Veganism speaks against this “System” and urges to come out of this slavery system.
Lastly, think twice, what you had done till date, what you can do till you alive? What is your lifetime’s contribution? Just, eat and survive ? After you, does it matter what car you had or how much you saved in bank? Even you grand-children will not remember any of you activity. Contribute something. That’s what Veganism(No matter by what term you call it) urges.
Thanks for stopping by. I’m afraid this belief system of sacrifice simply will not solve anything. And if vegans actually want the problem solved, they will need to learn how to reprogram belief systems. We will not solve a problem with the mind that created it.
Finally, someone who gets it! Thank-You!!!
Welcome back amongst omnivores. It feels great doesn’t it? The amount of Vegans literally brainwashed by YouTube and junk epidemiological studies is astonishing.
So be happy, crack open some eggs, eat a steak and embrace your history as a human being.
Great article Erika!
These vegans seem to forget the fact that while they are getting their nutrition from plants, those plants are getting their nutrition from manure and animal remains. Without the manure and animals remains, the soil would not be able to provide an environment for plant growth.
Life feeds upon life; it’s what nature intended. Recycle old life for new.
Yea good points :) Thanks for commenting.
As an ex-vegan i can totally relate to your post,i was vegetarian for years and then vegan,through suffering with ulcerative colitis (not putting that down to being vegan) i started to look at my diet and what could help me,bone broth seemed like a must and animal protein seemed the best digestible protein around.Anyway i try and use organic meat or hunt my own as much as possible,if i can get myself some land i’ll raise my own too.
Looking at just a few comments i see vegans still think they’re more evolved than meat eaters,more spiritual and that being vegan will save the world and stop climate change! lol,yeh climate change,something that has always happened,will continue to happen can be stopped by being vegan! hahaha!
I was never ever a fundamental vegan,i did my thing and never tried to force my views on anyone else although i knew many who were very fundamental!
To be spiritually evolved i thought one of the 1st steps would be the elimination of a judgemental mind but somehow,lots of vegans who profess to be spiritual develop an overly judgemental mind and see themselves as somehow superior!
Ok,to end this with a positive towards vegans a respect your concerns for animal welfare and i would strive for the highest welfare and most natural life we can provide for domestic animals and also the most humane of deaths (think more could be done in this respect),thanks for a great article,maybe try not to react to the posts you’ve got off vegans by constantly referring to their brain function! lol but i’ve read your explanation for this and i can understand.
Indifference and marginalization are the cause of anger among vegans. After all, pro-choicers make similar accusations against pro-lifers (brain must be non-functional, secretly hate women and all of humanity, etc) you do against vegans. And most pro-lifers (like most pro-choicers) are not vegans.
I have been vegetarian for 15 years and mostly vegan for the last six. You might consider me irascible, but I always have been my entire life (and I used lots of all kinds of animal products when I was young) . The condescension I receive for all my convictions (pro-life, anti-death penalty, etc.) largely is the reason.
The fact is that nastiness often seems the easiest way to combat the condescension and prevent me from feeling worthless.
I have now decided the best way is simply working to cease to care what others think of me and, if necessary, excluding certain people from my life.
I usually don’t like to comment on controversial topics but I felt inclined too. Reading through this made me sad. Because it was as angry or maybe even more then a lot of the militant vegans in the movement. I obviously mean no offence and I will probably be attacked for saying so, but on either side of the coin how is there any love for humans here. On the vegan side, calling down humans for being ignorant animal eating idiots and on the other side of the coin antivegans or ex vegans calling vegans brainless under nourished morons. I see no difference in what you are saying then what they are saying. At the end of the day we need to choose what we feel is right for us. For me personally, I have done some of my own research (which will probably never end because there is always more to learn) and I have watched powerful documentaries like earthlings and conspiracy and I follow vegans like bite size vegan on YouTube who probably covers every issue to vegan nutrition (and who could probably have an intelligent conversation with you about all nutrition issues and not be stumped or angry…. Because not all of us are uneducated)… It is not impossible to live a healthy balanced vegan diet and get all that we need to survive. However, I agree that not all people can be vegan or will be vegan. It’s the society that we live in. But if there are some people that want to lessen their impact as much as possible, then they should be able to do so without someone saying that 99% of vegans are idiots. To address one of your comments, no I don’t agree that the amount of bees being killed for pollinating crops is right, but we can’t conquer all evils every day. I’d like to think by not consuming honey and by not consuming meat dairy and eggs which is an industry that consumes more of our pollinated crops then vegans do, that maybe I’m at least trying to make a difference even if it is a small one. I just can’t personally support a factory farming system that employed animal cruelty and then uses more water and rainforest land for the purpose of growing the crops to feed animals and for raising the animals themselves then any other industry. But again those are my personal views which I believe I am entitled to as you are entitled to believe that meat is the right choice for you. I honestly mean no disrespect, I hope you will not delete my comment and throw it in the junk pile. I do agree with you that a lot of vegans are angry people (I think sometimes they become so wrapped up in the suffering of other beings that they forget humans still require compassion, and well I commend there dedication to a cause, I don’t know if we can ever as a people treat animals kindly if we can’t treat each other kindly) but you would be surprised how many people are happy and healthy and are social and friendly and are vegan. I just hope maybe you will one day see that even though your personal experience was that you needed animal products to feel healthy, that maybe bashing everyone who does not feel the same way does not solve anything. It just separates people even further. And that’s the saddest part of all. So to end my very long comment, my hope here is just to encourage some understanding. I understand that you were unwell as a vegan, and I do not argue that. But I am not unwell as a vegan. And I believe I am still an intelligent person, who is living a happy and healthy life. And I’d like to think that people should be able to make that choice or even to experiment with veganism to look at all aspects of this lifestyle without fear of others telling them they are wrong. The world just needs a little balance. I hope that makes sense. And thank you for the time to read this.
Thanks for your comment. I took some time and space away from this topic and to get myself properly nourished with both food my body needs and self-empathy that my heart needed. I also delved back into the non-violent communication that forms one of the foundations of my healing method.
It seems to me, as I’ve said in responses to some comments over the past few days, that if anyone wants to make headway here in creating a more global solution … we are going to have to put strategies aside and focus on feelings and needs and deep transformation work. Until then, as I see it, there is going to be a very small minority of people who can thrive as vegans … and a very large majority of people who cannot or will not. We need a higher order solution here. And being wedded to strategies is not going to get us there.
I hear you about wondering where is the love and respect in these debates? I think the way we are going to see it is to begin having empathy for ourselves and others, regardless of whether we agree with their strategy.
Meg, you said exactly what I was feeling….saying vegans are mean and hostile while at the same time being mean and hostile. If the author wants to make a change I don’t see name calling as the way to do that. As someone who is new to eating a heal their lifestyle I think everyone should do their own thing and whatever makes them feel the best. There are extreme people on each side and I know some vegans can be angry and push their views on other but this article seems to be doing the same thing on the opposite side.
I hear that the tone of the article did not meet your need for respect, Lindz. And now after releasing a lot of anger and finding my center again, I probably would not write it the same way. You might be interested in some of the more recent comments from the past couple of weeks. Cheers.
anyone who thinks /every/ human is capable of maintaining a healthy vegan diet is kidding themselves… my family were all strict veges/vegans and we all gave it up by the recommendation of doctors. I took the longest to come around; I was determined to make it work, and saw multiple doctors and dietitians to see if i could balance a vegan diet. After YEARS of exhaustion and illness my GP practically begged me to change to an omnivorous diet because I was getting to next level going to hospital sick. No amount of supplements were effective. I had poor concentration, brain fog, chronic tiredness, got sick very very easily all times of the year. Now I eat a serving of meat 3-4 times a week (i still don’t eat dairy as i have found i am very very lactose intolerant). I still struggle with meat, I was originally a vegetarian for the taste/texture aspect of it but I make myself eat it. Since introducing meat to my diet around 5 years ago, I’ve been sick about 4 times (mild colds, no flu). I also have bipolar disorder, and by god, did my malnutrition make it worse. I’m now happier and healthier with my balanced diet. One thing that hasn’t recovered on my bloodwork is ferratin levels are so low and they shouldn’t be, according to my GP. Apparently my body is just terrible at storing iron on a genetic level. Now days I crave meat if I don’t have my regular amount – not for the pleasure of eating, but because my body knows I need it.
one other thing i want to mention is the moral side of it. LIFE ON THIS EARTH IS NOT FAIR. AND IT NEVER WILL BE. Your moral crusade isn’t going to change that. Reduce suffering if you want, go for it. But keep it to yourself, don’t be so goddamn preachy.
[Personal attacks deleted, and author delivered to spam folder :D ]
The world is NOT black and white, but many shades of complex grey. Different people can sustain different diets – fact. My sister is a nutritionist who helps people with multiple health problems – most of her clients’ are ex-vegans who have ruined their health.
YES, there are unhealthy AND healthy vegans, the point is, they all co exist in this world. Some people can be vegans, many can’t. Vegans who are angry at you are simply another form of extremist thinking. Extremist thinking is always the same, extreme, and judgmental & not open minded. It is exclusive & not inclusive. All extreme thinking can manifest as veganism, fundamentalist religions, racism, and terrorism, etc.
I’m so turned off by the vegan movement at this point, that it’s hard to express in words. I believe they are very much on the wrong track. And so attached to a “solution” that can never work, they are failing to see the options that could work.
So if you don’t have a clear objective definition of what’s wrong and what’s fine, that’s an excuse to do anything you want? And just because you indirectly do harm it also justifies any harm?
The arguments she used can also debunk human rights as well. Air pollution kills thousands of people every year. So folks, you’re killing people anyway just by moving around, then why not start murdering anyone you want?
Cities in developing countries often have inadequate sewage systems. A lot of wastewater flows into and by slums in open canals, killing people with deadly diseases. So if you take a bath in Mumbai, Lagos, or Nairobi you might as well go into the slums and shoot down people. That’ll ensure a quicker death for them than from diseases spread by the wastewater you generate.
The point is, the lines you draw are arbitrary and no more defensible than the lines I am drawing. If you want the problems solved, you won’t ever solve them with 3D logic. You will need to learn quantum transformation skills. And most of you seem more interested in judging than learning.
[What a surprise! Another vegan comment filled with personal attacks and logical fallacies. Deleted :)]
Soooo to counter people you feel are rude and obnoxious you’re…rude and obnoxious? I like meat and get that a lot of vegans go waaaaay too far but this is just more of that. I don’t even get what the point is-extremist/obnoxious vegans don’t care, and reasonable people like me just think you’re being way too much of a jerk.
Think whatever you like. If you’d been verbally assaulted by hundreds of these vegan whackos, you might feel differently about it. :)
I’ve been verbally assaulted by lots of religious people over the years because of my being both pan and poly. It doesn’t mean it’s OK for me to go around making unfair generalizations about people nor does it make it OK to demean all of them just because some of them are ignorant.
The kind of thing you’re doing is the same thing just from the opposite direction and it’s not cool.
It’s called satire. And hopefully some vegans will see it as the wake-up call that it is.
There was a point in time when I thought you were a very intelligent human being with a grasp of ethics and what is needed to make this world a better place. The fact that you are practicing censorship in deleting comments that truthfully call you out for turning your back on the animals reveals your true colors. You are a back stabber with no heart or regard for the animals you are killing for your own selfish reasons. I am appalled. Go ahead and delete this because you are a coward who cannot face honest criticism in your haughty holier than thou ivory tower. I hope someday you see yourself and how horrible your betrayal of the Animals and Vegans like me who believed in you. That’s not nutritional deficiency talking. It’s being betrayed by a trusted friend. No deletion can ever make that untrue.
Well, hello, Robert Bello.
You gonna be honest with the world that you are losing your health on a vegan diet, also? Do you consider it ethical to continue recommending a diet that you know full well is destroying your health? That’s not ethical in my book. Perhaps you should get out of a glass house before throwing stones.
Veganism is not a diet, and as such, vegans do not just eat in one set way. A person can become malnourished no matter if they’re vegan, vegetarian, eat a SAD diet, or what have you. Even the US government has come out and said vegan diets can be healthy at every stage of life. If you became unhealthy because of the way you were eating, can you really use that to say that veganism caused it?
Because when I started eating animal products again, the symptoms started reversing :)
Some self-selecting vegans can be healthy, most likely. The problem is trying to force this diet on everyone else, or pretending that anyone and everyone can be healthy on a vegan diet. Which is false.
Erika, you should see a nutritionist or inform yourself a little better about plant based nutrition. Basing yourself on the fact: ”when I started eating animal products again, the symptoms started reversing :)” Isn’t concluent and is most of a time, a psychological issue same as when a smoker stop and think they have symptoms, but in fact it’s all in their heads.
Anyway, you bring good points here, but you are contradicting yourself on many points, such as agriculture that kill bees. Yes it’s sad, but as you said, veganism is about doing less harm possible and practicable. Personally I boycotted almond a long time ago.
In conclusion, the only thing I have to tell you, don’t juge veganism about other vegans you met on social networks or somewhere else in your life. All you need to know, your choice can make a difference for an animal’s life. That’s all that matter.
As stated in the article, if you truly wanted to do the least harm possible, you’d end your existence. Anything else is arbitrary, bullshit line drawing that cannot be defended any more than any other diet. You folks need to stop preaching and start thinking. But that’s going to be difficult when your brains are not functioning properly due to malnutrition.
I have seen many vegans in my line of work ( medical ) with a variety of health problems and I have seen meat eaters live to be close to 100 years or over eating meat to the end ! I don’t know where vegans get their medical facts from ! I resent the fact that you say only vegans care about animals ! Most normal people do not want to see animals suffer ! Get real !! We all step on and kill Thousands of bugs and insects in our lives! Their are animal by products in more things then you realize ! Including tires!! Do you drive a car?? Also make up , cell phones , etc..No one can live totally cruelty free it is self righteous to think so !!
They get their medical facts from the Orwellian named nutritionFACTS.org site by “Dr.” Michael Greger… who I also believe said that they should be statin drugs in the water supply… Even more Orwellian.
Another great article Erika :)
Saddens my heart to see so many who cannot apply critical thinking. Do a little independent research folks instead of just regurgitating the same crap all the other vegan demigods spew!
Makes me think of a quote from Goethe, “None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free.”
Keep up the healing girl I got your back and I’m right behind you :D
Thank you Joseph … the proof is in the pudding. I feel so much better, and many of the symptoms have already reversed :)
Wow Erika, another fabulous article! I really enjoy your perspective. Like you, I received the most hateful backlash from vegans for eating prawns for the first time in 3 years, despite the fact that my craving had become consuming and suppliments were not helping. Are some prawns, craving craved, felt physically so much better than I had in years and blocked the so called compassionate vegan ‘friends’ who thought it appropriate send me hate filled, ugly spiteful messages. So while I will never go back to eating eggs, land animals or dairy, when my body and tells me it needs fish, I will eat fish. I am so thankful that I was never a preachy, judgemental person while vegan and that’s probably why my meat eating friends are fully supporting my decision without ridicule or judgement. They just want me to be healthy and I’ve never felt better. The whole experience has been an eye opener and not a particularly pleasant one as far as now realising that while I agree with the principles and ethics of veganism, the cult mentality and hatred towards fellow humans has left a bitter taste in my mouth. THANK YOU for your honest, insightful blog which similarly reflects my own thoughts and feelings. Love to you xxx
Yep I couldn’t agree more. Although I was one of those preachy vegans … unfortunately. Even while I was vegan though, I was seeing the cracks in the philosophy and getting more and more turned off by the people.
Glad you are doing what you need to do for your health. No vegan would insist that a seal or a lion be vegan. It shouldn’t be any different with humans.
Thanks for your support :)
hmm. You are right, that strictly vegan is only suicide. Whenever you go out, you can smash an insect, etc. This is not any argument. To live vegan is to minimize the abuse and torture of animals. I do not know, if my notebook is “vegan”. I can not search the origin of all materials in it. Because I do not know all the materials. This does not mean that I am not vegan. As I can and as I know, I am not using animal products in my life. Whenever I can, I choose vegan option or I do not buy. But how can I find out, that no cat was murdered on the road, when broccolli was driven to the market, where I bought it? So, you are right, I should murder myself to be the best vegan. But I live on vegan diet for now 2 years, I am more healthier then ever before and I am fine. Lost 25 kilos. How do you know, that you had the right mixture of food when you were vegan? We study it for the whole two years and each week we discover new things. But we are healthier then ever before. To be vegan doesnt mean to be healthy. As when you eat meat doesnt mean that you are healthy. You have to think and study if you are vegan or not. And one think you have not mentioned in you article (because of your egoistic view of life), vegan mean far less destruction of environment then meateating. For the same amount of nutrients you need 20 times less water, land, gasoline, energy, etc. Hmm, that doesnt fit in your opinion, or? Because to be vegan is not being vegan for yourself, but primary for the animals and for the planet. You are on the last position. And that is why you will never be vegan or vegans understand. Because vegan is absolutely not about you. Probably you will delete this, but perhaps someday you will get it.
You keep right on following this arbitrary religion with all its made-up rules. I am happy to be done with it.
Hmm. hoped for a better answer, something more erudant. Hope you will once have somebody, who will be for you more important than you are. Sorry, but your view is based on egoistic world view, which is not counting with the consequences for the world. Hope, your children will forgive you. And what I was saying is reality, not “religion”. When you feed animals to eat them, you loose 90 % of the energy and use only 10 % for growing. So, eating animals is throwing 90 % of energy out of window. That are facts, not religion.
Sorry, friend. As far as I’m concerned, the egotism is in vegans attempting to force this path against innate human biology. You want the problem solved? You’ll need to learn new skills. What you all are doing is not going to work. Take care.
[another vegan making personal attacks and suggesting I was just “doing it wrong” – ignoring the extensive scientific research that indicates very clearly that many people cannot get adequate nutrition as vegans. deleted]
I’m not a vegan, but some of your argument is as silly as what vegans typically argue about. For instance, mass produced almonds killing off the bees. ANYTHING mass produced is bad on our environment, period. This damn laptop that I’m typing on is bad for me and the environment, EMFs will create zombi people lol.
There needs to be balance and sustainability across the globe. Unfortunately, we may not come to this until things get REALLY bad. This isn’t a vegans fault, this is the corporate world that will destroy things.
Like you said, their are some vegans who know how to do things properly, there are also many unhealthy carnivores. I constantly experiment with veganism, I think it makes a person younger, I also love the nutrition in some animal products. Meat is in my opinion very harmful depending on a persons condition. I like goat dairy and duck eggs as my go to. I think their should be a treaty between both parties. Anytime I eat meat, flare ups.
I’m not here to try and convince you of anything, I was bored, read your article and felt like sharing. I did enjoy parts of your rant as well ;-) But don’t be the ex vegan that is trying to save the world one vegan at a time, that’s just as silly as the vegans ranting about meat eaters. This debate will never end.
PS. Your very pretty, enjoy yourself :-)
Thanks for the compliment. I’m done with veganism. And people can say what they like. I’ve found more than 20 of those white hairs turned back to brown in just the few weeks since I started eating animal products again :)
The reason why I’m Vegan…..the thought of actually eating DEAD animal flesh is so nauseating – Asians eat anything that moves and westerners are speciest and justify that eating a cow, chicken, sheep and pigs is OK but eating dogs and cats is somehow cruel… wake up idiots…. they are all animals – why are meat eaters such hypocrites???
Why are Vegans pushing a diet that is damaging to most humans’ health?
Most okinawas live on a diet consisting of 98% plant foods and have the highest per-capita of centenarians. They have the lowest rates of dementia and cancer. Their life expectancy isn’t as long, now that their diet is 15 % animal products. Look up the article on huffington post. How do you explain that?
“Before 1940 Okinawans also consumed fish at least three times per week together with seven servings of vegetables and maybe one or two servings of grain per day. They also ate two servings of flavonoid-rich soy, usually in the form of tofu. They didn’t eat much fruit; they enjoyed a few eggs a week. Dairy and meat represented only about 3 percent of their calories. On special occasions, usually during the Lunar New Year, people butchered the family pig and feasted on pork.
“The meat in their diet gave me pause. When I first struck off on my Blue Zones research in 2000, I was absolutely convinced that I’d find that a vegan diet yielded the greatest health and life expectancy. So when I discovered that older Okinawans not only ate pork but loved it, I thought their example must be an outlier — that they were living long despite pork. Pork is high in saturated fat, which, when consumed in excess, often leads to heart disease. But again, we learn a few lessons. Okinawans stewed the pork for days, cooking out and skimming off the fat. What they ate, in the end, was the high-protein collagen.”
Ummm, doesn’t sound like a vegan diet to me. When I stopped being vegan, fish and eggs were the first foods to which I was drawn.
Funny how the results are just the results. I’ve found 20+ hairs on my head that have turned from white to brown in just a few weeks since beginning to eat animal products again.
Seems like your “white hairs” that turned brown actually just fell out (you lose up to 85 strands of hair a day) hhahah I’ve never heard of hair changing colors based on diet; if that’s the case then maybe I will start eating more foods that can turn my hair pink!
Actually Liz, the hairs are white at the ends and dark brown at the roots … a whole bunch of them … Didn’t you know that malnutrition can cause hair to turn white AND fall out by the way because my hair thinned for the first time in my entire life. Yep, that’s vegan malnutrition for you. By the way, I’m not alone in this. For example, 40% of vegans are iron deficient, and guess what? Iron is one of the nutrients that when lacking can cause accelerating aging and hair loss. Pretty messed up. It’s irresponsible to recommend this inadequate diet to the rest of the planet.
[yet another vegan personal attack – deleted :) ]
[Another insufferably condescending asshole comment from a vegan – deleted. ]
[Deleted for personal attacks ]
Go rescue a chicken from a battery farm, and buy an axe. Take a strong tab of LSD and set an alarm for 4 hours ahead from when you take it. At the point this alarm goes off, go and try to kill the chicken and eat some of it. Then have a rethink on the vegan philosophy.
As a child, I went fishing with my family … we caught salmon, trout, crawdads, mussels, etc. Killed all of them. While I’ve never been trained in slaughtering other animals, I am sure if I were desperate enough, I’d do it myself. And I was pretty desperate by the end of a vegan diet.
One of these days, you folks will get that a vegan diet is not solving anything. And that your attachment to that as “the” answer is actually a block not a help. And then we can get started on the real transformation, which will come from this – http://tapsmarter.com/about-hbr
In the meantime, these comments are really getting annoying …
You forgot to mention the LSD, that was a key part. I don’t care if you have killed or would kill animals. Try to do it on LSD and you’ll find yourself going vegan again, I 100% guarantee it.
I 100% guarantee you that a vegan diet will solve nothing. Learn some quantum transformation skills, if you dare, and your entire perspective on this will change.
If you need hallucinogenics to find sense in veganism, then there’s something really wrong with it.
Funny thing about this is that whenever I run into vegans who mock plant sentience I want to tell them to eat some shrooms and go forest surfing and when they’re done to come find me with their new found wisdom. ;)
We aren’t born with hate and discrimination. There’s the picture going around with the white mother and the black mother facing opposite directions holding their kids who are reaching out to each other, illustrating that we all are born with pure love and acceptance.
White kids aren’t born with a superiority complex toward black kids- but sometimes they learn that. Boys aren’t born regarding females are sex objects- but sometimes they learn that. It’s the same with animals- if you cause an animal distress in front of a toddler, you also cause the toddler distress. It’s only later that some kids are taught that some suffering matters less.
As social creatures with a desire to fit in, we rarely stop to really consider culture and question it. We tend to have this naive assumption that our values, ethics, etc are somehow universally valid, despite overwhelming historical evidence that these things are entirely transient. The reason slavery, and subjugation of women, and heterosexism and speciesism have/continue to persist is because people fall back on similar faulty logic- “this is that way it’s ‘always’ been'”, “it’s natural”, “things will never change”, etc etc etc. But eventually people stand up and say, “why do the interests of this class (black people, women, non-human animals, etc) matter less? Why is it OK for their suffering to be ignored?”
All such discrimination is unscientific and illogical. Why do we automatically grant all humans the right to life and freedom, but not other animals? Does it really make sense that one particular class- the homo sapiens species (which just so happens to be in power, and has the prominent voice- much like whites, men, and heterosexuals before them) DESERVES its privilege? How can we all be so naive as to buy in to this ‘might makes right’ mentality which history has repeatedly proven to be so flawed?
The characteristic of sentience is a much more relevant and compassionate benchmark on which to acknowledge the right to life and freedom. ALL animals want to live and be free. Who the hell are we to deprive black people/ women/ non-human animals of life and freedom for our own excess? It’s ALL wrong- we just happen to live in a place and time where only some of this is widely recognized, but thankfully injustice cannot live forever. It took 400 years for Americans to decide that blacks are equal to whites, so unfortunately we may linger in this hateful speciesist culture for a while. But rest assured- change IS coming. There are more vegans and animal liberation minded folks all the time- Israel is up around four percent vegan, and climbing!
In the end, it’s actually quite simple- taking advantage of the vulnerable is wrong.
It’s nice in theory. Just not working in practice. Kinda like Communism.
You have the small problem of human genetic and biological programming to contend with … and good luck having a vegan world if you don’t learn how to reprogram those beliefs at the subconscious level.
Just wait a few years and see how practical and sustainable massive meat eating is, if you dont have a heart attack till then. But if you think humans are “programmed to eat meat”, you should also think that for example gender equality cant work in practice, after all men are programmed to screw over women, or a racism-free world, since black people are “programmed” inferior isnt it? things are mant not to changed, ye´re programmed this way. It seems to be in your genes to be senseless and obnoxious but you should review your sources. I síncerely did not bother reading the whole pile of crap your article is, just your first argument about brain functioning is bullcrap. Yes, vegans need b12 supplements, the same b12 pills your dear chicken and beefs eat to transmt to you because they cant provide it themselves (shall I bother explaning you why?). Please stop propagating stupidity, come people might believe what you say.
Just so you know, I am not an “emotionnal freak” hippie at all, nor do I work in environment, I am a biomedical engineer with a hint of common sense
Actually I was probably on my way to a heart attack on a vegan diet. Vegans tend to have high homocysteine levels, and I had all the signs. In addition, vegans cannot safely get a proper balance of omega 3 to 6 fatty acids. Which is another risk factor for cardiovascular problems. I am feeling much better since I started eating animal products again, thank you very much.
Erika, over the past couple of days, I have found myself coming back to this and your earlier blog, fascinated by all the responses. As a woman who didn’t wake up to the reality of animal suffering until last July, and who has been trying to “vote with her dollars” ever since (confession: my body won’t let me give up fish yet, but I’ve eliminated the rest: dairy, eggs, all other animal flesh), I have to give you credit for trying as long and as hard as you did. If anything surprises me, it’s that you didn’t listen to your body earlier, but in a culture that denigrates the feminine, that’s not hard to understand. I imagine you and your Harvard-trained mind were absolutely determined to figure out how to make it work . . . but ultimately your body’s needs prevailed. I don’t fault you for that. Here’s a story a friend on my spiritual path told me that you might appreciate. She said that she and a group of others would get together once a week to do a group meditation, and afterwards, they’d extend the fellowship by going out to dinner together. After awhile, the vegetarians and vegans in the group were offended that some people would eat order meat off the menu. They decided to consult a senior monastic, a nun known for her wisdom. The veggie people were sure that they’d prevail; after all, this particular path advocates, but does not mandate, vegetarianism, and the nun certainly was one. But the nun surprised them; she said that no one could know what another person’s dietary needs are, and to keep their attention interiorized after meditation and stop getting riled up by what was on their neighbor’s plate. (Kevin, commenting above, said something similar.) To me, no doubt she’s right; every individual is a world unto themselves; different genetics, different in utero diet, different constitution, different soul path, different karma. Can you imagine Mars saying to Venus, “Dammit, Venus! If you’d just listen to me, I could help you maintain better atmospheric conditions on your planet!” (???) So again I say, thank you for trying, and for having the courage to be honest about your experience. I found your earlier article on “breaking up with veganism” authentic and personally helpful because it inspired me to do more research to make sure that I am getting all my nutrients need met, and I just found some great information that will help me tweak it. I just wish you had left it at that. My problem with this blog is the motive I perceive. I understand you came under fire, and I am sure it stung. But then–at least it seems to me—you, an awakening student of the Course of Miracles, chose to counterattack in a completely over-the-top way. What does the CIM say about attack, Erika? What has that ever accomplished? I pray every day that mankind’s consciousness (including mine) and body will evolve to the point where it would be unthinkable to harm an animal for any reason other than self-defense, but honestly, maybe I ought to dial it back a bit and pray for the day when people who say they care about waking up and making this world a better place can count on a civil, insult-free discourse in a forum like this. If this is how we human animals treat each other, its going to be a helluva long time before we get our act together and our consciousness high enough to systematically eliminate the causes of animal suffering and recreate a world economy that doesn’t rest on the backs of the animals. Until then, I think every little bit we can do is better than doing nothing at all.
It’s a fantastic parable … and my suggestion is that you apply it to yourself and “what’s on my plate.”
Can you possibly understand why this (satirical – think Catch-22 or Animal Farm) article was written, or can you only judge from a limited perspective?
Animal Farm was cruel and harsh. Should it not have been written? 1984? Catch-22? etc. etc. etc.
And yes, as I have even drawn fire from people who are quasi-vegan and still eat animal products … lol … I hope you realize there is absolutely no comparison between a diet that makes exceptions like fish and a strict vegan diet. Even some of the famous “vegan gurus” have had to add animal products to their diet to maintain their health – yet they are not honest about it with their audience.
I think veganism is a bit like Communism. The ideal seems harmless enough until it’s actually put into practice. Then we see, as we always do, the limits of 3D logic.
And if this article turns out at some point to be a catalyst for people to start looking beyond veganism to quantum solutions? Then who is to judge its value? You, or God?
Everything happens for a reason.
Your missing one important point, so I feel it will be hard for you to understand it..
But let’s look at just factory farming, worst thing out there, cruel, in humane, because of how their treated, your eating mostly steroids and antibiotics. Plus the enviromental hazards as well.
So as vegetarian or vegan, we are not a part of that horror, for vegans many milk dairy farms are in humane also, plus man is not meant to digest dairy. Proven by doctors who’s area of expertise is digestion.
As for your other concerns there are some divides but all agree on above.
I recognize the issue, Bill. I just disagree about how to solve it. If I am correct that most humans cannot maintain their health on a vegan diet – and I am confident that is the case – then you have to produce animal products for humans. And given that we are heavily overpopulated, and people – including vegans – keep procreating … well, therein lies the problem.
Is a vegan diet going to solve this? No, because only a tiny minority of people can and do stay vegan long-term. So either you folks can learn how to reprogram the subconscious mind to solve these problems at the root … or it’s going to be an interesting ride seeing how this all unfolds :D
Toward the beginning of this article you claim that “For the 99+% of other vegans, who are clearly suffering from cognitive deficiency and emotional imbalance …” It’s claims like this, which are obviously over-exaggerations and based on what seems like an irrational hatred of vegans, that make your article incredibly difficult to read, and even more difficult to take seriously. You continually mistake your opinion for fact – a common mistake when a person is writing with little research or facts to back their writing up, and in a highly emotional state. Perhaps, if you hate vegans so much, it might be best to move on to other topics on your blog, rather than using your non-veganism to draw vegans to your blog, do you think?
It’s satire, Carolyn. You know, satire. Like Catch-22 or 1984.
Why did you delete my comment? Do you not have any arguments against the things I mentioned?
What a joke that you make some kind of claim to have ‘logically defeated the vegan philosophy’ yet you delete anything that threatens your decision, so you’re obviously not that confident in your argument.
Try being vegan again but eat and supplement properly this time, and you won’t have issues.
I see Oliver, shall I take 50 supplements perhaps, even though the 25 or so that I was already taking were not getting the job done?
agreed. I find you’re easily offended….you can’t handle the actual truth so you just delete everyone’s comments
Personal attacks are not truth. They are what people resort to when they don’t have any truth on their side :D
Yes, that’s why the dalai lama and all the monks in Tibet who follow a vegan diet are so sick and angry, hahaha.
Get your head out of your ass, sounds like you have something personal against vegans, find healthier ways to deal with your issues girl, get some therapy, Life is too short!
The Dalai Lama eats meat, my friend. He was never vegan. And he ceased being vegetarian because it was destroying his health. Apparently you missed our previous article, where this was already discussed :)
Get your facts straight about the Dalai Lama and monks before hurling insults ! He is a meat eater look it up ! He was extremely sick on plant based diet and went back to eating meat for good ! So did a lot of the monks !
Nice try….I’m not vegan, but if you think that your 5 vegan friends are the only people able to survive and prosper on a vegan diet, ruins your credibility from the start.
It’s satire, my friend.
Wow!! My first comment was to just say ‘someone knock this woman over the head already’, maybe just maybe it may knock some sense into her?? Umm, then I thought that may make me sound emotional or maybe irrational?? “because deficiencies of DHA/EPA, B12, and other nutrients have lowered your brain function and made you impulsive and irrationally angry. Right.”
Wrong!! The real reason vegan folk come off impulsive or irrational is simple. We are so very very tired of being surrounded by evil, insensitive, inhumane, ignorant…I could keep going, but why bother…people.
See for those who make the transition to a compassionate diet are infact compassionate people (to animals mainly). Quite honestly we really do not want to be surround by so much death, destruction and hate, which is what many many humane beings give off.
So keep telling yourself that a meat based diet is just o.k, if that helps you to sleep at night. For me I know I can sleep soundly knowing that everyday I do something positive for the world we live in. Sound corny…well quite honestly I really don’t care. You little law degree will never win an argument with me. Because what the vegan diet has given me is a heart and soul, empathy. What a law degree gave you…coal for a heart and the ability to lie, lie, lie, lie, oh and did I mention lie. Never trust anything a lawyer says!!!
LOL … mmhmm …
“Quite honestly we really do not want to be surround by so much death, destruction and hate”
Are you even listening to yourself…you are in denial. In denial of life, in denial of death, in denial of your physiology. We consume the energy of life – whether it’s in the form of animals or plants, which too struggle for survival when they are picked and consumed. How could the distinction between those different life forms be anything other than speciesism? There’s nothing but inconsistency in those illogical arguments…claiming to be supposedly more compassionate with these arbitrary rules and definitions is just laughable…
Anyway – one day, our time will come too, and it will be other living organisms’ turn to eat our flesh. It’s morbid…but it’s a part of life. Equating this very natural process to senseless murder is nothing short of absurd. You can live your life in denial of your own physiological need for other living beings’ flesh or you could learn to accept that this is how life is meant to be – and it’s always been that way for a good reason.
If it’s “part of life,” then veganism cannot be defended. Vegans’ only real hope, frankly, is to adopt my world view that death can and should be abolished. Yet I haven’t seen a vegan yet willing to do the work to make that a reality.
Vegans, stop shoving your eating habits the same way other people shove their religion.
Wow! Erika, you are sooo brilliant !!! Finally someone speaking the truth !
LOL … finally … a comment that is not a personal attack! Thank you, Bruno <3
“What do they know—all these scholars, all these philosophers, all the leaders of the world? They have convinced themselves that man, the worst transgressor of all the species, is the crown of creation. All other creatures were created merely to provide him with food, pelts, to be tormented, exterminated. In relation to them, all people are Nazis; for the animals it is an eternal Treblinka.” – Isaac Bashevis Singer
But nobody wants to hear those words, and not many people wanted to hear the words of Martin Luther King, Rosa Parks or Malcolm X when they fought for the rights of African Americans. And 100 years ago, few people wanted to listen to someone speak about womens’ rights. And it’s no different today with animal rights. Logical fallacy after logical fallacy, and excuse after excuse from the meat, dairy, and egg eaters of the world about why it’s okay to kill animals for food.
If I gave you a compelling reason to return to veganism and commit to it, would you? Yes? Good, I thought so.
First, 98% of the global population is comprised of meat, dairy, and egg eaters. That leaves only 2% of the population that’s vegan, and even less than that, who actually advocate for animal rights. I’m shocked that you’re feeling oppressed and annoyed by the 2% that’s vegan, when every single day, I’m surrounded by bacon addicts who probably haven’t even given a thought about what they’re eating. On every highway in the United States, there are tons and tons of billboards from the giant corporations like Mcdonalds, Taco Bell, KFC, Wendys, Burger King, and Denny’s, shoving their products down the throats of Americans until they buy into the propoganda. I walk into the dining halls on campus at least twice a day, and I’m surrounded by pig flesh and cow secretions.
Not only is it a joke that you’re feeling oppressed and annoyed by the vegans, but what every single factory farmed animal (all 150 billion+ animals) goes through is nothing short of a holocaust FAR bigger than any other human genocide or war that has ever taken place on this planet. Just remember, every 30 minutes, the number of animals killed by factory farming equals the number of humans killed in the entire holocaust. And you’re annoyed at the vegans.
On the topic of health, I PROMISE that if you employ the vegan lifestyle properly, you WILL be just fine. I am 20 years old, and I have been vegan since birth. You can live just fine as a vegan, but there are 4 common sense rules that you can’t break.
1. Don’t live on carrots and tomatoes.
2. Don’t live on potato chips and soda.
3. Don’t live on supplements.
4. Don’t starve yourself.
You can eat potato chips and soda if you want (even though they are unhealthy), and you can obviously eat carrots and tomatoes, but the bottom line is that you still need to get a variety of real food. That means stuff like lentils, tabouli, pasta, hummus, soups, pizzas, calzones, stir fry, etc. And don’t calorie restrict. It’s important to get roughly 2000 calories a day just like you normally would as a non-vegan. This simply means, don’t starve yourself.
Let’s say you couldn’t care less about animal rights, you CANNOT ignore the damage to the environment that animal agriculture is causing. There is no way of getting around this issue if we are still consuming animal products. We end up destroying massive amounts of forest land to produce crops, 80% percent of which goes toward livestock because 15 times the amount of food is required to feed them than if we were to feed them directly to humans. What would happen if we started feeding our crops to humans instead of livestock? We could literally end famine in 3rd world countries, we would destroy less land, and we would reduce the pollution of the atmosphere.
And also, if you’re concerned about deficiencies with veganism? Then what is your logical solution? To eat something that came out of a hens butt? To drink the milk of a cow (and only a cow)? To eat something that came from someone else’s body? That doesn’t sound very rational to me? Did you know that in countries where animal consumption is low, cancer, diabetes, heart disease, and stroke rates are much lower? In fact, they rarely get the illnesses that we get in America. The poor countries in Africa aren’t dying from cancer and diabetes, they’re dying from deficiencies because they’re starving to death. So if these western diseases were really a genetic problem like most people believe, then wouldn’t every country suffer from the same diseases? And how many vegans do you see in hospitals because avocados gave them cancer and heart disease? Obviously none because we all know that fruits, vegetables, grains, and legumes, don’t give you those illnesses; eating pig flesh, cow secretions, and the things that come out of the back-side of a hen, give you cancer, diabetes, and heart disease.
But you won’t listen to anything I have to say, because you’ve convinced yourself that vegans are irrational people who are deficient in vitamin B12 and protein, and are therefore incapable of thinking. But vitamin B12 is not even a vegan issue, and protein is literally the easiest nutrient to obtain on a vegan lifestyle. Vitamin B12 is made by bacteria, and every animal has bacteria that exists in their bodies. The problem is not how much B12 you’re consuming, the problem is how well your body is absorbing it. And approximately 40% of Americans are B12 deficient. So if that’s the case, then it’s not a vegan-only issue, because vegans comprise less than 2% of the American population. Also, protein is just about everywhere. As long as you’re eating enough substantial food, you can’t possibly be protein deficient. The scientific name for protein deficiency is Kwashiorkor, and nobody in America has Kwashiorkor. The impoverished people in 3rd world countries have Kwashiorkor because they are starving to death.
You only need 1 reason to be vegan, because there are literally 0 reasons to eat animals. Whether you’re doing it for ethics, the environment, your own health, the well-being of other humans in 3rd world countries, the well-being of the people who currently go to work in slaughterhouses and kill animals one after the other, or to benefit the economy, you cannot give me 1 solid reason to eat meat, dairy, and eggs. I’ll end this statement with a quote from Gary Yourofsky on the slavery, murder, and commodification of animals for food and clothing. Hopefully you will take it into your own hands to do more research and get the real truth before tossing vegans into the category of irrational people, and ignoring these issues.
“The problem is that humans have victimized animals to such an extent, that they aren’t even considered victims. They aren’t even considered at all, they’re nothing. They don’t count, they don’t matter, they’re commodities like TV sets and cell phones. We’ve actually turned animals into inanimate objects. Sanwiches and shoes. It is the greatest magic trick ever performed. The animation switch. And besides the money made from selling their flesh, and skin, and the things that come out of their bodies, there’s not even decent value on them as inanimate objects. The American flag for example, which is nothing but a piece of fabric; the bible, which is nothing more than a book comprised of ink and paper, stir up more emotions than the murder of animals. If there were a barbecue around campus today, and people were cooking up steaks and hamburgers, man there’d be a party. People would actually celebrate cow who was killed, the person who killed the cow, and the chef that seasoned her dead body. But if someone poured gasoline on the flag or a bible, struck a match, set it on fire, lord have mercy. Boy there’d be an angry mob ready to kill somebody! These lifeless, inanimate objects, are more sacred than animals? Living, feeling, breathing beings. Animals are victims, the most oppressed ever. And if you’re having a tough time grasping this fact, maybe it’s because the only time you come into contact with cows, and chickens, and turkeys, is when they’re cut up and cooked, on your dinner table.”
If you actually wish to be heard by the other person … it’s generally not a good idea as you just did to make a bunch of false assumptions and expect to be taken seriously.
I do not understand why it’s so hard for many of you to get it … other people do not have the same physiology that you do. Most people cannot be vegan and stay healthy. No matter which way they do it. Thus, 84% of vegans and vegetarians go back to eating meat.
Regardless, I will continue eating an omnivorous diet until you folks demonstrate that you actually want the problem solved :D
“There are literally 0 reasons to eat animals.”
Our entire damn human history and DNA? Humans have consumed meat for over 2 million years and therefore our bodies cannot function properly without them. You’ll find plenty of societies throughout human history that subsisted exclusively on meat, yet you won’t find even one that was exclusively plant-based – societies have always known how important the inclusion of high-quality animal products are in a diet. Even with all the modern day supplements that exist today, it is simply not possible to have optimal health with the absence of meat in the human diet (or even survive, as in the case of many long-term vegans who fall ill).
Also, are you seriously quoting Gary Yourofsky? May I remind you that no one in their right mind should quote that human trash?
His words: “Deep down, I truly hope that oppression, torture and murder return to each uncaring human tenfold! I hope that fathers accidentally shoot their sons on hunting excursions, while carnivores suffer heart attacks that kill them slowly. Every women ensconced in fur should endure a rape so vicious that it scars them forever. While every man entrenched in fur should suffer an anal raping so horrific that they become disembowelled.” (http://www.care2.com/c2c/share/detail/227470)
Did you read Gary Yourofsky’s ENTIRE essay about tactical violence on his website? under the “other animal rights issues” section. Read the essay titled “What’s Wrong With Violence”. Read it from beginning to end.
I understand that people change their views over time. And I certainly hope that Gary is no longer advocating violence. That said, Gary has lost credibility with me because he said there is no counter-argument to veganism. And I believed him. That turned out to be false. There is a huge counter-argument to veganism. Most people cannot be healthy on a strict vegan diet.
There have been many people who learned about animal rights issues, and went vegan right away. If they followed a logical vegan lifestyle with a decent variety of foods, they didn’t get sick. But people love to “try” veganism, and then quit because “it didn’t work”, when in reality, they were making obvious mistakes and their illnesses had nothing to do with veganism. And I doubt that 84% of vegans return to meat eating, but even if that’s the case, that calculation barely covers a fraction of the vegan population on the planet, and the people who were involved in the study clearly weren’t vegan. They were either eating the wrong way, or they were just doing it for fun and it had nothing to do with ethics.
You just keep on believing whatever you want to believe. As long as vegans “pretend not to see” the evidence that contradicts their philosophy, their philosophy will fail. But keep right on with this Sisyphean mission. We aren’t here to stop you …
When I said “had nothing to do with veganism”, I am referring to the fact that those problems you experienced were a result of either calorie restricting, or just not having enough variety of real vegan food. Like I said, you can’t live on supplements, and you can’t just live on carrots and tomatoes (or the opposite, potato chips and soda).
And I’m saying, you’re wrong. Since you have no factual basis to comment, as you’re not living in my body, it would probably be best not to speak about it. Thank you.
[Personal attack deleted] :)
[Yet another personal attack from a vegan – what a surprise!]
Sorry, but just lol, that’s all….
Yes … LOL
Bullocks. I have studied communication for 3 years and there are 7 basic speech rules. You bassically pooped on all of them. I do not understand this rage of yours against vegans, but as a non-vegan with no b12 defficiency, i am saying that your article is based on nothing but your own personal issues. It’sviolating the speech rules, there are no accurate studies and [personal attack deleted]
Me, violating rules? Oh God forbid. Oh that’s right, veganism is a religion. It’s a cult. You have to FOLLOW THE RULES or else be shamed and ostracized. Nope, not for me. I pooped on all the vegan rules too. Religions and cults are for people who can’t think for themselves.
Vegans break communication rules I have been verbally attacked by vegans all the time and I am a vegetarian They give plenty of reasons for people to have rage against them! You obviously haven’t heard or read some of their absolute BS arguments they are not backed by fact ! I am in the medical field and have witnessed their dangerous claims first hand !!
You do raise interesting points. I too have come to realize that to do “the least harm” amounts to suicide/not procreate, yet I don’t think that it should keep people who want to live from eliminating unnecessary cruelty and deaths from their lives.
Honestly though, the vegan bashing and insulting is very agressive and surely doesn’t help you get your point across. You talk about vegans like they’re crazy lunatics, but maybe your communication skills – or lack thereof – are part of the “angry commenters” problem. (Although some people do get angry very easily, meat-eaters and vegans alike)
Or maybe I encountered just one too many (hundreds … thousands) of crazy lunatic vegans :) And after a while, I had to start thinking. holy shit. I’ve become just like these people, and I fucking hate it.
Firstly, I’d be curious to know where you live because even in Montreal – one of the biggest and most vegan Canadian city – you don’t encounter hundreds and thousands of vegans easily. If you are refering solely to encounters on the internet, I could easily get you some links to some great vegan blogs that get bashed daily by crazy lunatic non-vegans with poor arguments. You know, the type that screams BACON and thinks that it’s a solid argument against veganism?
Secondly, there is a great flaw in your article because you seem to be saying that meat-eaters thrive and vegans don’t. Yet if we do a quick survey in even a few of the engorged hospitals in Western cities, I’m pretty sure that we’ll find that a lot of non-vegans are not thriving at all. Does that mean that a meat-eating diet is not suited for humans? Who knows. Also, you seem to be ignoring the fact that Hindus and Buddhists have been vegetarians for centuries and that they don’t seem to be doing too bad.
I think that the main thing to remember is that generalization is never efficient when trying to make a point. Your article is full of them, for example when you say that most vegans are dumb. Does that mean that all non-vegans are highly intelligent (whatever intelligent means)? Personnally, I could find some solid examples that prove that the last statement is totally false.
I was in quite a few vegan groups, with thousands of people. I observed their behavior across a wide range of situations and conversation topics. They couldn’t even get along with each other. There were a ton of rules “enforced” via peer pressure that made absolutely no sense. And when I called this out, I was warned to keep quiet and go along with the party line. I was having my doubts about the community very early on, as I have never subscribed well to religions and cults.
In one of the articles that I wrote, I have already acknowledged that people on the S.A.D. diet would likely have an omega 3 to 6 imbalance similar to vegans. Happily, those (vegan or S.A.D.) are not our only two options.
Strangely I am on various vegan groups/blogs too, and have only encountered many healthy, happy vegans. If you think about what a cult is based upon, you might realize that uninformed non-vegans who go along with the status quo without questioning anything and believing what “higher authorities” (a.k.a the milk industry telling you that milk is essential, to name only one example) is way more similar to a cult than veganism is. Also, you just dismissed half of my comment about your unjusifiable generalizations. Nothing to add?